Dalmar, Come to Somaliland, Inaabti. We will defend you...

Originally posted by Dajiye: quote:Originally posted by xiinfaniin: ^^Stop trolling in Puntland/Somaliland threads. Who is trolling in his own thread now.... War Dajiye, bal u kaadi, Xaaji... Nin qaawan baanu marada saareynaa ee u yara kaadi

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: Ayyoubow wuxuu yiri wiilka ciyaaray: Nin Ma haynoow, war anagu nin ma haynoooo Markaasaa reerkii laga guursanayyey ku jawaabeen ma joogto, halkaaaaanna naagi ma joogtooy Only if you could grasp the nuggets in there Muxuu fahmaa, nin macawiistii ka dhacday oo hor cararaya ayuu eegayaa'e

Originally posted by Mr. Somalia: Ilma-Adeerradeyn wax hiilo ah oo arintaan Sool ku saabsan, ey nooga baahan yihiin majiraan: So what's the young Garaad complaining about on every radio station and website when it comes to Puntland?? Puntland seems filled with 'Comical Ali's'

Ngonge, do not be discouraged by the Puntland Amen Corner's attempt to distract from the main debate. I answered your question, now answer mine....

^^^And the procession of Puntland Boys come out the closet after 2 days of shivering in the closet. The talking points have been issued and what happened at Holhol must never be directy addressed, but rather snapped at the edges to distract from the lack of response from the beloved Puntland. I've seen this script before, me thinks....

Originally posted by General Duke: Mintid Farayar: Name droping wont help your situation lad, focus on the topic..Xabsade is turning white. . Duke, My apologies, bro. I shouldn't lump you with Xiin. P.S. From your point of view, don't you think you should upgrade us from 'secessionists' to 'expansionists', given the current situation That's, of course, looking at it from your Puntland-centric lenses...

Remember it was Xiin saying there were no Somaliland troops in Holhol a few days ago... He even made the comment of 'where are JB's and Ood's troops' I sometimes think Xiin and Duke rise from the same bed to do their rendition of 'Comical Ali' daily right here on SOL... Tsk, tsk.....

Originally posted by NGONGE: ^^ Actually, if you listned to me and calmed down you would have seen..... I see I'm not the only who noticed his hyperventilation For some reason, my posts tend to have that effect on the fellow

Ngonge, In answer to your question, all of Somaliland holds its traditional leaders in high esteem. Specifically (since you want me to go that route), the Sool natives hold their Garaads in high esteem, like any other Somaliland region. My question to you is : 1) Where do you get the idea the Garaads where mishandled/mistreated? I've given you First-Person information proving otherwise. I can give you at least 2 other First-Person interviews from the Internet stating the same fact. Where are you getting your information from except diaspora sources (all whom readily admit they weren't even in Sool, let alone Holhol)?? Including the young Garaad who wasn't even there (how could he report on it since he wasn't even there). All participants who were there have stated to the media that, after initial discussions, an accommodation was reached (Waa lays af-gartay!). Where's the beef????

^^LOL@Xiin... Maskiin.. Ngonge, don't let Xiin distract you from the discussion at hand. Whenever, I read his foaming at the mouth and name-calling, I know for sure - 'Macawiistii baa ka dhacday' So back to your argument - I think the temperature of what happened at Holhol is a storm in a teacup. The terrorist actions within Las Anod are another matter entirely. Unfortunately, for the poor Xiin's of the world, their hypocracy and bankrupted positions are made apparent when they cry over the same bombings in Mogadishu and Bosaso, yet cheer them in Las Anod! You haven't commented over the interview with the local reporter by the anti-Somaliland website. If you have the patience to listen to that 10 minutes, a lot of things will be made clear to you(as to what actually occurred). Don't drink the Kool-Ade

Ngonge, You misrepresent my point to make yours. The elites I refer to are not the Garaads , but rather the exiled, radicalized diaspora . The reasons for this radicalization are explained in my original post in this thread. My position on the Garaads is one of complete respect, even though I might disagree with the political leanings of some. I've stated so in enough threads where others have badmouthed them. The relationship between the majority of the Garaads and the Somaliland leadership is not one of enmity as Puntlanders would have us believe and have convinced you, obviously. I recommend you listen to this interview below conducted by an anti-Somaliland website with a reporter who happened to be in Holhol during the latest incident. While the interviewer tries to feed him (the reporter) leading questions averse to Somaliland, the eyewitness comments on the comraderie and friendy banter that was taking place between the Somaliland delegation and the Garaads in Holhol during the latest incident in that town. At the end, he states an accommodation was agreed to between the Garaads and the Somaliland leadership . This is quite different from the narrative others are painting in the diaspora! Saaxiib, ku noqo Analysis-kaaga... Interview with Reporter from Holhol

While we might disagree with some of our traditional 'Cuqaal', let's please accord them the respect the position warrants. It's the Somaliland way...

Originally posted by General Duke: SOOL is not a land you can occupy. You went from "Las Anod is not a town you can occupy" to "SOOL is not a land you can occupy" Progression Let's see where you're at in 6 months time...

^^ You've been terribly quite these last 2 days, my friend. I guess the terrorist bombings helped you gain your nerve back

What's interesting here is that you have only Somalilanders debating the merits of this theory while the usual vocal supporters of Puntland have gone deafeningly silent ... Having said that, Ngonge's main point seems to be that present leadership in Sool has a history of switching sides & cannot be assumed to be on the Somaliland bandwagon for long. While this point has its merits, Ngonge seems to have missed the crux of the argument which is not about elites but rather the perceptions of the grassroots . The facts being created on the ground are similar to the same facts that were created in the rest of Somaliland under Egal's tutelage (mid '90s onwards) - Prominent elites in the rest of Somaliland have flirted with the idea of Somaliweyn but proved unable to woo the public to the idea. The same process is being enacted today among the grassroots in Sool - to accept the reality of Somaliland regardless of the exiled elites who enjoy the hospitality of foreign hotels and foreign citizenship. Now in all fairness, the anti-Somaliland forces are not idle as displayed by the recent appearance of terrorist bombings in Las Anod. Just today, as we speak, a bomb wounded the Governor of Sool and killed one of his bodyguards. A female civilian pedestrian was also severely wounded. However, this tactic will backfire. Civilians do not appreciate terrorist bombings in their midst and the Governor and bodyguard , while representatives of Somaliland, are still Sool natives with their sub-clan constituencies . This will not endear the anti-Somaliland faction to the natives of Las Anod. All Somalis within the Somali peninsula prize peace above all else , a fact lost among the exiled anti-Somaliland elite (who all live in the safety of foreign capitals) who are funding these bombings. Secondly, the international community which monitors the region closely strongly opposes these forms of terrorist actions and will further aid the Somaliland security services to deal with the rising tide of terrorism on the Eastern front. So, in clarification, this is much deeper than elites playing musical chairs . Hearts and minds are at stake and it's to Somaliland's advantage to empower the grassroots!

Even those arguing for a different narrative of what's transpired agree with the basic premise of my earlier posting. Exhibit: Originally posted by xiinfaniin: I note the exuberance of the secessionists, and I honestly think it is somewhat justified---. Link to Thread

As much as the other side tries to present a different narrative, the true situation as stated in my earlier posting is buttressed by the young Garaad's interview a day earlier. He seemed livid with 'the betrayal' by Puntland, which he supported in the competition for Sool. In another thread, others in this Forum seemed to have come to the same conclusions, i.e.: Originally posted by Abtigiis & Tusbax: On the other hand, the highlight of my previous post on this issue should have been my advice to Garad Jamac not to rely on unreliable Pirateland. It seems he has abondoned Holhol,now another plac e further down the south is being talked about, and I guess if Somaliland sends police there, the venue will be relocated further to the South. If this south-looking trend continues, the meeting might take place in Galmudug and its credibililty will be lost! Link to Thread

Over the last few days, a lot has been written on the Internet and in this Forum regarding the Holhol episode. A political meeting of traditional leaders was to take place in Holhol. This meeting had long been rumored to be adverse to Somaliland's interests and was explicitly stated as such by the young Garaad who originally called for the meeting. Shortly after the arrival of the Garaads, a division of Somaliland's military forces moved to the area, taking full military control of the area. Then some hours later, a delegation of Sool natives from the Somaliland government arrived, convening a closed door meeting with the Garaads. An agreement was reached to prematurely conclude the meeting. The meeting was adjourned after 48 hours (originally it had been slated for at least 5 days if not longer). What are the ramifications of this incident? Many Puntland supporters in this Forum believe/state this shows the hostile attitude of Somaliland towards the majority in Sool. They claim this is the final nail on the coffin. I disagree with that analysis. Here is why: Since the fall of the military dictatorship in Somalia, it's been an open secret that the Sool community has been divided in its allegiances. Three factions are present: A- Those who support Somaliland B- Those who support Puntland C- Those who support neither entity but would rather wait for a central gov't in Mogadishu (A fourth faction is rumored to exist, supporting Al Shabaab) With the Holhol incident, Somaliland drove home the point that it and it alone physically controls all of Sool. Puntland remains powerless to exercise any influence in the region. More importantly, for the supporters of Puntland within Sool, it has become apparent that Puntland has neither the desire, the will, or the power to protect them. Somaliland accomplished this without the slightest physical harm coming to a single individual. Meanwhile, Sool inhabitants observe their cousins(Sool natives) who support Somaliland thriving as successful, integral members of the Somaliland business, social, and political community. The power of the contrast between these two observations(the Sool constituencies supporting either Somaliland or Puntland) cannot be underestimated. Now, the outrage we're hearing daily is the radicalized Sool diaspora (the young Garaad happens to be a member of this group). A large portion of the Sool diaspora happen to be the remnants of the military dictatorship who occupied high positions in the dictatorship (or their offspring). This small, but highly vocal, segment of the Sool population lost power, wealth, and prestige with the demise of the regime. Somaliland (and its majority clan) are blamed disproportionately for the destruction of that regime and the émigré status this community finds itself in. This diaspora community has the power of the purse behind it (remittances) and hitched its wagon from the beginning to the Puntland experiment as protection from Somaliland. Due to their greater financial power, higher education, and greater access to the media they've been able to drown out all other segments of their region and clan. They were the architects of both the Nairobi conference and the Holhol gathering. The agenda and outcome was already preset for both. Somaliland, by its latest move, showed in the clearest way possible that it's here to stay in the region and must be accommodated to its satisfaction. The fact that it did this without any physical harm coming to anyone is a testament to how well this was thought out on the Somaliland side. Somaliland's actions demonstrated the futility of hoping Puntland can be a bulwark against Somaliland's claims on Sool. This sentiment/frustration was voiced even by the stridently anti-Somaliland young Garaad who originally called for this gathering. He even went so far as to claim certain Puntland ministers set him up to be arrested by Somaliland (in an interview within the last 48 hours). The level of desperation and paralysis is at an all time high within the Puntland supporters of the Sool region. Meanwhile, the Somaliland supporters within Sool can point to the daily successes of their project in persuading the masses (the majority of whom have never tasted the high life of Villas and Land Cruisers in Mogadishu). In closing, it seems the tussle over Sool between Somaliland and Puntland is finally drawing to a conclusion.....

Rag 'SOL' ku jira ayey macawiistii ka dhacdey ayaamahan....

26 Janwari, 2010, 12:45 GMT; 15:45 SGA Shir ay baajisay Somaliland Guddoomiye ku xigeenka Barlamaanka Somaliland Baashe Maxamed Faarax oo isaga iyo wafdi uu hogaaminayey oo ka socda Somaliland ay tageen tuulada Hol Hol ee gobolka Sool ayaa BBC u sheegay in shir ay tuulada ku yeelan lahayeen salaadiinta iyo cuuqasha gobolka Sool la joojiyey. Wuxuu intaas ku daray in ilaa 12 garaad oo tagay Holhol si ay ugu shiraan ay ciidamada Somaliland ka hor istaageen, iyagoo fulinaya amarka Somaliland. Wuxuu u sheegay weriyaha BBCda Xuseen aw-Jaamac Jibriil in ay isku afgarteen hogaamiyayaasha dhaqanka ee halkaa tagay in la fuliyo go'aanka dowladda Somaliland ee ahaa in aan shir lagu qaban karin shir. Wuxuu intaa ku daray in aan wax shir ah ka qabsoomin HolHol, balse ay iyagu kulan la qaateen qaar ka mid ah hogaamiyayaasha dhaqanka oo ay kala hadleen "danaha reerka iyo nabadgalyada gobolka", kuwaas oo uu sheegay in ay isku afgarteen , kadibna saaka isimadii ay ka ambabaxeen HolHol, iyaguna ay ka soo tageen. Wararka, ayaa sheegaya in hogaamiye dhaqameedyo ka soo jeeda gobolka oo ka tagay Puntland iyo siyaasiyiin kale ay tageen HolHol si ay halkaas ugu yeeshaan shir u gaar ah beesha. BBC Link

A lot of anger and frustration emanating from certain corners in this Forum! Over what? No one was hurt, no one was touched. No one in Somaliland would dare touch traditional Cuqaal. It's just against cultural norms in Somaliland. This is not Abdullahi Yusuf and his militias in the middle of Mudug. Let's come back down to reality...

Originally posted by MoonLight1: Duke what was this PL minister in tukaraq meeting the SL officials, is the authentic? and if not, is garaad jamac a lier? 'Comical Ali' does not answer those kinds of insidious questions Duke, old mate, just having a laugh. Nothing personal

Ma anaa waalan?? Debating with Duke is like arguing with 'Comical Ali'!

Originally posted by General Duke: AYOUB, today Garad Saleeban, Garad Jama & the others are united together, and are against the secessionist, you have unified a whole clan against your agenda. Thus like always you are lost in your own clan delusions. The Garad is saying his land is occupied by “Somaliland” thus he does not recognize the entity other than as an enemy. Unless you think this man is not the leader and like the others is unimportant ? Duke, Do you ever listen to yourself? Just earlier you were posting 'There's no Somaliland forces in the area', 'It's all Secessionist Propaganda', etc. Now, without missing a beat, you're going on about uniting a whole clan without reconciling your earlier words with the reality before you. We're just pointing out why it's so difficult to take you seriously. Sadly, some of our fellow countrymen in Sool took all your empty rhetoric about having a powerful army at face value and hitched their wagons to yours - Alas, we know what happened since and how they feel about depending on certain corners from this point onwards... Eventually, an accommodation will be reached with the few discontented in Sool and they shall return to the fold - for where else is there, today, in the peninsula to join??