Originally posted by ibtisam: ^^^check the date before you take me head off and talk my ear off. i wz just wondering what happened to her. somaliniom concern What are the chances ANYONE would respond to 4 yr old dead thread? What exactly were you doing unearthing the dead? Let the dead rest in peace, they deserve at least that much. Jeeze! Ok, you're pardoned but not totally off the hook. That is until you cease or tone down considerably your sardonic remarks.

Originally posted by Passion_4_Fashion: ^^^ooohhh....no wonder the whole world is messed up! See! That is why REAL men run the world BECAUSE they are able to think RATIONALLY. And thank God for that! The whole world is NOT messed up. We live in an age where there is more wealth, equality, progress, freedom, abundance in everything... on the dawn of the age of cloning and nanotechnology. Technology so NANO, so small that you can't even see it, you just have to believe it! No more famines, got cures to more maladies then anytime in human history, live longer and are healthier then ever before, got googlepedia of information, the intel pentium chip, can travel across the globe in mere HOURS, keep in contact with relatives the other side of the globe. What EXACTLY is there to complain about? Life is good, life is great, life is beautiful! Be grateful, will ya? Oh forgot, you're not... well, you know what!

Originally posted by Khayr: SB, you're in the wrong line of business of Hate Mongering vis-a-vis Religion! What is this? Blame SB week? This is the 3rd time in 2 days I'm accused of something I don't even understand. Being religious caveman and pacifist, this Hate Mongering vis-a-vis Religion accusation is beyond my scope of capability. I'm therefore impelled to exercise my right of total and unconditional denial of any and all culpability. Now, wooly Kheyr, go scoot away to oblivion and leave me be!

Originally posted by Katrina: SB (shaking head) of course you'll get paid in headaches, chaos, frustration, blame shifting and those are on the good days, occasionally you might get an e-hug, imagine that. What a harrowing prospect! E-hug? The de-personalisation march goes on! No thank you, count me out.

^^Hey! lighten up with acidic sarcasms, will ya? Ikraam, SB welcomes you from the depth of the Deep Freeze. Where we live in Igloos, hunt seals for grub and wear fur as fashion statement. Don't mind Ibtisam, she's a bit cranky on Tuesdays. If she becomes bothersome, leave her to me and others. And keep your chin up, pull yourself by the bootsraps' and don't give up hope. There is someone out there for you.

Do men fall in love? No, not REAL men. They're too busy running the world.

It's about time Dolphins got some love. My hat off to Dolphins for their intergalactic species leap. Hurray!

I like pessimistic russian poetry. Sergey Yesenin is one my favs. This song by blues legend BB King, for me, translates what's expressed in those poems into sound. The thrill is gone The thrill is gone away The thrill is gone baby The thrill is gone away You know you done me wrong baby And you'll be sorry someday The thrill is gone It's gone away from me The thrill is gone baby The thrill is gone away from me Although I'll still live on But so lonely I'll be The thrill is gone It's gone away for good Oh, the thrill is gone baby Baby its gone away for good Someday I know I'll be over it all baby Just like I know a man should You know I'm free, free now baby I'm free from your spell I'm free, free now I'm free from your spell And now that it's over All I can do is wish you well --The Thrill Is Gone by BB King

American football puts me to sleep. Never seen sport more sissy then it. European football/soccer, now THAT is a sport worth watching. Pure poetry in motion.

Truthfully for us somali muslims, our biggest enemy is ourselves. I think that is mostly true for most muslims too. Sad really!

I think many of you are missing out on the Great White North ie Canada. The land of the free and brave. Aside from Eskimos in snow ploughs chasing around and scaring the pajams out of pedestrians, mothers breast feeding their babies in public and occasional sight of infamous people with hairy palms and webbed feet, Canada is a cool place. It has unmatched natural beauty, DUH!, along with warmest, most friendliest people in the world.

How much do they pay? And in what currency? US dollars or e-dollars.

I worked at the Ottawa airport couple summers ago and there was this moody, perennially carrying this doleful-look face co-worker. He would incessantly play almost to benumbing levels this song: I drink alone by George Thorogood. I drink alone, yeah, with nobody else I drink alone, yeah, with nobody else You know when I drink alone, I prefer to be by myself Every morning just before breakfast, I don't want no coffee or tea Just me and good buddy Wiser, that's all I ever need 'Cause I drink alone, yeah, with nobody else Yeah, you know when I drink alone, I prefer to be by myself The other night I laid sleeping, and I woke from a terrible dream So I caught up my pal Jack Daniel's, and his partner Jimmy Beam And we drank alone, yeah, with nobody else Yeah, you know when I drink alone, I prefer to be by myself The other day I got invited to a party, but I stayed home instead Just me and my pal Johnny Walker, and his brothers Black and Red And we drank alone, yeah, with nobody else Yeah, you know when I drink alone, I prefer to be by myself My whole family done give up on me, and it makes me feel oh so bad The only one who will hang out with me, is my dear old granddad And we drink alone, yeah, with nobody else Yeah, you know when I drink alone, I prefer to be by myself

Originally posted by The Flipmode..: Before I start, let me caution BILAN against Insulting ISLAM in any way.. You'd be advised to cease with the mafia styled bullying tactics. Who are you to tell other MUSLIMS not insult Islam? Or have you got carried away with your perception of self grandiose and convinced yourself that Islam belongs to you and not to Allah? THE WORST SCENARIO REAL LIFE SITUATION/DIVORCE AND SINGLE FATHERS/MOTHERS/WACELO This is what happened to somali women who thought they are free AND LIBERATED..to do as they please and they shouldn't seek resolution to their differences with their husbands so they can keep their homes secure from splits and from rendering kids fatherless. You're woefully wrong in your analysis of the prevelance of divorces and single parents found in Western based somalis. Unlike the mistaken believe held by most somalis (of both genders) for the increased broken homes, single parents and divorces, the truth of the matter exonerates both genders. While it is true that expectations of each gender has changed over the years, alot remains the same. Somali men aren't lazy or good for nothing, they certainly aren't back home. Same goes for somali women. Back home, both genders get along fine and there are less broken homes. The problem seems limited to the West. This should give us a hint and hopefully provide the real reason for high divorce rates among somalis in the West. If you look at the West in general, divorce rates are astronomical and the highest in the world. This is generally true regardless of religion, political leaning, race etc. Somalis being part of the West are susceptible to the same causes that lead to high divorce rates and single parents in the societies they live in. Why we would expect otherwise is mystifying to me. The soaring divorce rates in the West are not due to women being liberated as wrongly suggested by Flipmode and others, but by more objectively measurable variables like economics (main reason!!!), longer life spans and almost negligible infant mortality rates. All three combined produce a noxious mix that incapacitates, cripples the will and the wherewithal of those wishing to have a family. It is almost impossible to start a family in the West unless: you're very rich or willing to settle for lower living standard. Since most people are not rich and are unwilling to live at or below the poverty line, divorce or single parenthood is inelectuble historical imperative. So, Flipmode, don't blame the liberation of women for single parents and high divorce rates. Such blame is unfounded. The real reasons for them, as I explained, show no link between high divorce rates and women's liberation.

Originally posted by Caamir: How can you discover a land whose people were already there? I think the point was so that no else can claim to have 'found' N. America after you. It is intended to prevent others from making similar claims you and not discovered N. America per se since people already lived there.

Originally posted by Ducaqabe: I don’t think it’s that distasteful for you as you proudly brush off the magnitude of such behavior. Are they harming anyone? No. Are they forcing anyone to join in their wayward sexual activities? No. Am I as a citizen of a free and democratic nation obligated in ANY shape or form to support them? No. Are they reducing as consequence of their activities the quality of life of people? No. Then why should what they do bother me at all? Don't misunderstand me, I'm against what these people are doing. But they are not a threat to my life. Neither will the quality of my life be affected by what they do. So, I'm not brushing off the wayward deeds of these misfits, just giving them due reaction. The subject of the discussion is this sickening behavior where married men go and exchange bodily fluids with other married women while watching their wives get screwed by strangers. Rotten, nasty disgusting acts of wicked hearts. Keep in mind that these people don't see anything wrong with what they are doing. Not everyone percieves the world like you do. And since they're not harming anyone, there is no good reason to make their activities illegal. Not in a democratic nation anyway. Westerners feel proud of the openness in their society more than they are with values and morals. Westerners have values and morals because of their openness. Closed societies have no values or morals. Name me 1 closed (not democratic, not free etc) country that rivals the West in morals and values. You won't find one. That should tell you something! Such behavior is considered important and a freedom of some sort, so don’t tell us they don’t consider it important. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Who is 'they?' It seems you're implying that Westerners in general approve of wife swapping. But I can assure the average Western would have the same visceral reaction as you if you were to ask him of what they thought of wife swapping. I know it is Somali thing to condemn entire people (like condemning entire clan for the actions of very few) for the actions extreme minority but that is almost always wrong. Wife swapping is still cultural tapoo in the West and probably will always garner the support of no more then ultra tiny minority. Ask them and they would utter these words, it’s a free country, so you can do whatever. And I agree with them dependent on that what you do doesn't physically harm me or reduce quality of my life. It seems to be working just find and dandy. Better then any other society on earth today.

Originally posted by Khayr: and Yes, All and Anything is Permissible when GOD and Religion are TAKEN OF OUT THE PICTURE. But I already gave you some exceptions. Like pedophilia; add murder, stealing, raping and lying. All have been seen as wrong and made unlawfull by most secular civilisations since forever. How do you explain this apparent discrepancy between your theory and facts of the world? Reason being nothing becomes Sacred anymore, and anything and all becomes Relativized subject to change today or tomorrow. True except for things like stealing, killing, lying, raping, pedophilia... do you see it now? You should, by now at least, see where the fault in your reasoning lies. Its all Relative, subject to p POPULAR SENTIMENT-emotion, feeling etc. of the population. What is so relative and subject to sentiments about outlawing unlawful killings, rap, theft etc? Aren't these the epitome of reasoning and rationality derived choices?

Originally posted by Khayr: Once you take God and Religion out of the picture, then ANYTHING and ALL is Permissible and Relative to SOCIETAL DEFINITION . There is no place in the world where anything and all is permissible where God is out of the picture. You're too fond of reductionism! For example, Canada is secular democratic nation but not ALL and ANYTHING is permissible. Paedophile is one good example. Why shouldn't sex with children be legal or acceptable? Anything and all things are permissible, right?

Originally posted by chocolate & honey: Ina abti, if we just need some sort of guidence we will go back to our roots-the Islamic sharia. Who's we? If you mean Somalis, then Islamic Sharia was never our roots. And I sincerely hope we don't go back to our 'roots' which is clan worshiping. Still widely practiced to this day. Having said that, my understanding of what Sharia is intended to bring is what I've listed we should adopt from the West: peace, justice, equality, good governance, development, freedom etc. Exactly what do you disagree with what I've listed? Ducaqabe Socod Badne: Do you know what you’re defending sxb? Makhnuutnimo & Dayuusnimo is what’s being denounced here. What are your views if you don't mind sharing? No, what's being denounced is the West for what we find morally disagreeable. Few impalatable social mores shouldn't and does not trump all that is good about an entire civilisation. That is what is being done here by some. I find this wive swaping business distasteful but that is not what the West is about. That is not what defines it or what Westerners consider important. I would react in similar fashion if some Westerner critiqued my culture and judged it to be backward and anti-woman for practicing FGM. Because it would be unfair as well as prejudiced. Thinker Sacod badne ...we as somali need SHEERIAH AL ISLAAM!! Maybe, maybe not. I don't know what we need for sure except an immediate end to clan worshiping.

Originally posted by Khayr: What I meant is that the STANDARDS of MEASUREMENTS are different . You can't QUANTIFY the damage that permitting 'bawdy houses', strip clubs etc. does to society and societial values. You're still not making any sense. How does can't QUANTIFY the damage that permitting 'bawdy houses', strip clubs etc follow from STANDARDS of MEASUREMENTS are different. You haven't established the link, just asserted it. My contention, that you CAN measure qualitatively effects of certain social behaviour, still remains. I give you few pointers: education, health, suicide rates etc. quote: chocolate & honey -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The decision could make it easier for other venues where group sex takes place among consenting adults - such as gay bath houses - to operate without the threat of police intervention. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...These are the people whom some of us advocate we should adapt their hor mar and Civilized ways. Not so civilized now, are they? ... I always found this tendency to dismiss the achievement of Western civilisation based on few of its foibles amusing. If we judge civilisations this way, who'll come out untarnished? Because every civilisation has it's foibles, no one is perfect. We, as somalis, should adapt A LOT from the West. Like how to feed, protect, shelter, educate, employ your own people... provide peace, justice, good governance, entertainment, law and order, development, the list is long.

Originally posted by Khayr: Governmental corruption is MEASURABLE but SOCIETAL CORRUPTION is not MEASURABLE i.e. Dollars and cents. Both are measurable if you know what to look for. Rather SOCIETAL CORRUPTION translates into HUGE PROFIT MARGINS. But you just said societal corruption is not measurable. Do you even read what you write?

Originally posted by Khayr: ...because MOST PEOPLE are not capable of sensing things INTELLECTUALLY and are prone to using EMOTION as a major SENSORY TOOL. Oh yeah? Where did you learn that? Everyone who has a brain is capable of intellectualizing. Just some are better at it then others. But is that really possible to achieve that BALANCE btwn SENSE and SENSIBILITY? What's the difference? What determines what SENSIBILITY is anyways? Our brains.

Originally posted by Khayr: e.g. Fornication was a Major societal taboo but now, its an encouraged behavior. High on your delusions again, aren't ya? I lived in Canada for nearly ten years and I can categorically tell you fornication is not encouraged. As usual, the gulf between what you say and the truth is as wide as the Atlantic ocean. Also, what is HARMFUL has to be immediately QUANTIFIABLE i.e. dollars and cents, physical harm etc And rightly so. How else should what is harmful be measured if not by the scale of it's baleful outcomes? corruption ... not MEASURABLE and do not translate into ECONOMICS. You really believe that? That there is no direct correlation between corrupt governments and poor economies?

Originally posted by Jimca Lee: B.T.W What is beautiful about a pink rose? It matches the color of female genitalia (same for red roses). Why do you think girls wear lipsticks?

Originally posted by Jimca Lee: If he is smart, he won't spend it except-of course-on that, which is only necessary(read: needed for survival): he should, instead, put it in a nice offshore saving account. Smart girl!