ANALYSIS / Victory in Turkey referendum makes Erdogan second only to Ataturk By Alon Liel This is the fourth time Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has savored victory in a national ballot. Twice he won general elections, twice in referenda. He is a perennial "winner," even if we in Israel are largely united in our distaste for him. Yesterday, voters overwhelmingly approved the referendum initiated by Erdogan's Islamic-oriented Justice and Development Party. The constitutional measures passed give the government wide-ranging power to exert control over the military and judiciary, both traditional bulwarks of the country's secularism. Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan speaks during a press conference at the international airport in Santiago, Monday May 31, 2010. Photo by: AP The referendum result is a triumph for Erdogan's ideology. It's hard to imagine the heads of Turkey's army plotting another coup, given that the reforms now allow them to be tried in civilian court, or the country's high court banning certain political parties as it has in the past. Erdogan can now look both forward and back with satisfaction. He has made his country richer, more stable and stronger in the international community, while simultaneously making it both more democratic and more devout. Should Erdogan prevail in the July 2011 election - a legitimate prospect after yesterday's victory - he will become the longest-serving, and most influential, Turkish leader since Kemal Ataturk. The reforms passed yesterday overturn eight decades of government-touted secular ideology, instilling instead a new political creed that could rightfully be termed Erdoganism. And a leader doesn't have an "ism" attached to his name simply by toeing his predecessors' line. Many in Turkey and abroad view Turkey's transformation - more religious, more eastward-looking - as cause for concern. But to the majority of Turks, the reforms have made the republic more democratic, more humane. Erdogan will remain hated by the Turkish secular elite, which is concentrated in the army, universities and business community. But he is beloved by Turkey's poorer, devout periphery. The prime minister has straightened the backbone of the marginalized, and in return has received their undying loyalty. Fears that Erdogan will turn the country into an Iranian-style Islamic republic are unfounded. Support for the prime minister rests not only on ideology but also on modernization and the prosperity he has helped bring. We in Israel know Erdogan primarily for his hard-line Mideast policy, less so for his economic platform. But the prime minister's every step is taken with fiscal growth in mind. Erdogan will abandon neither modernization nor democracy, the system allowing his government to stay in power. The prime minister must now meet one major objective to justify the "ism" that has been appended to his name: Create a Kurdish state, or at least recognize Turkey's Kurds as a national minority. Erdogan is ripe for it, but his country is not. He needs one more term to complete his Kurdish mission. Should he win next July, that may be a real possibility.

Agent Attam is a desperate man who has lost many of his men, even this staged interview highlights that he is isolated and has no real support of the people he claims he is defending.

Clan does not kill people, people kill people. It seems yet again those who are the most clannish are the ones claiming to be cleaner than clean. You have Niina here defending an old bigot who is proud of insulting and openly threatening the Somali people. She has a problem with the Puntland State flag, yet understands the Pain of this man. Then the Al Shabaab rep in SOL Maadey comes in, he who supports without question the murders that took place in Hotel's Muna, & Shaamo. Strange that Puntland isthe problem, yet Puntland has not clan cleansed a city, nor has it murdered and blew up students, poor shoe shiners and cleaning ladies. Puntland only blew up in a careful manner Al Shabaab agents. Also Puntland won't be lectured by the likes of ONLF and supporters who are either prisoners fighting for freedom or prison wardens preventing that freedom on behalf of the Ethiopian state.

^^^ Wonderful stuff, Adeer I am so happy for you that you met the legend, but people without any backbone usually claim such things. Thus one will take your claim with a pinch of salt.

Here we go again. Agent Attam is still fighing, having major success and like Bravheart bringing the wrath of the poor upon the elite. However it's all hot air, made up stories and ones we have heard before. This man and his radical diaspora supprters are just living out their fantasies onlne and on the airwaves. The reality on the ground is stark, the troops are in full control of Galgala, and all the areas he called home. True weakness is a man, and his supporters who are unable to set foot in their supposed clan fortress[/b which was lost to them in a single day. These regions are by far one of the poorest in the state thus nothing to covet in terms of resources, this clean up operation is between an Al Shabaab agent and his terror cell hiding out in the mountains.

^^^ there is nothing to hide Adeer, the security situation in Putland is improving Alhamdulilah, the Al Shabaab group and their agent have been isolated in remote hill tops in Sanaag. Puntland as you can see is not a place were Al Shabaab can take root and they will be hunted down.

Againthis post keeps growing due to the influance of the old warrior. Yusuf is loved by the people of Puntland, even in retirment his every word is analysed and debated as is evident by the Eid comment. Any one who thinks these people hate Yusuf only should look at how Faroole, Cade ina Sharmarke are insulted. However Yusuf was a man who had presenece in Somali history for a long period of time. The legend lives on in comfort in Yemen with his family, retired from politics as a whole.

Thanks for the contribution to the thread everyone. Even a simple Eid statement can generate such deep feelings anger and confuison still amongst his foes is quite remarkable. Yusuf is a mortal man who made mistakes, and who also had great triumphs in serving his nation.

^^^ Pardon?

Thiery Adeer we disagree on this and no doubt you are angry at Yusuf as you hinted for clan reasons. However you can and have a right to your opinion but not on facts, facts are clear as day. Yusuf has never claimed his clan is bêtter than others as you claim, his own Mother and uncles are from another famous Somali house. As a young man he fought for the Somali cause, in the wars of 1964 & 1977 in both wars with distiction. He disagreed with the Barre regime Nd fought it, in hindsight he has admire that it was a mistake to start the war considering it's consequences. This is a halmark of bravery. Now when you say vile, Yusuf did not lead the hordes that Clan cleansed Mogadishu. Who for 20 years have lived in occupied and killed vast numbers of Somali, are these people leaders not vile? Thiery, Adeer Yusuf was instrumental in the leadership of Puntland state and it's sability, which no other leader of the south, central has ever achieved, Aydeed, Abdiqasin, Ali Mahdi and Sharif Ahmed today have achived what for the peopl they claim to represnet aside from getting rich and triggering more blood shed in Mogadishu? Thiery, President Yusuf,PM Geedi, Speaker Sharif Xasan & the Somali Parliment called on for foreign support including Ethiopia. Today the same troops are protecting your hero Sharif Ahmed. Thus another weak point. Yusuf is a historic figure, a an who fought against Ethiopia in 1964, 1977 who fought against the brutal regime of Barre , who fought against the USC clan militia , who fought against Al shabaab's dads and who was closest to bringing peace to the South and ending the war. His ditractors then are the same who are now complaining about Al Shabaab & who made the situation of Mogadishu worse then when he was there. Yusuf story Adeer will not be writen by his enemies, yes he made mistake but he was a hero and a national figure who will go down in history like other complex, imperfect men.

The man in the audio, Ciise Ahmed Dalabay What nonsense are we listening to the same Audio people? This diatribe of the old man was not directed at a specific clan as some here would like us to believe nor even at the person of Omar AA Sharmarke. His comments about Puntland and Faroole was soft in comparison to what he said about the southern clans notably the people who inhabit Bay & Bakool who he called ironacly soft or Masakiin or poor, weak peasants who AL Shabaab should go and occupy instead. What guilt by association? This was a raw political attack on two recent rivals of Sharif Ahmed, it is clear Sharif Sakin & Sharmarke were the intended persons of the absurd outburst and the old man only vomited out what Sharif Ahmed fed him. The talking points about Sharmarke should leave, Sharif Sakin should be tried in courts, and that the new constitution was evil and should be rejected, were all on Sharif Ahmed’s mind and main concern over the past few weeks. Here we have the same useful people jumping on this as if it somehow diminishes Puntland and their position. On the contrary Sharif Ahmed and his former dogs AL Shabaab are killing each others political future. The only tragedy is they are killing the people of Mogadishu with their madness. The outburst of this old man clearly sends a message to all of us that Sharif is a man of weak caliber, lacks vision and has ****** advisors around him. Also this incident is quite an important event, which should not be ignored or played down. Its significant to Somali watchers because it at last reveals Sharif Ahmed true face, gone is the “Shiekhs”, gone is the “Jihadi warrior”, gone is the “Statesmen” now we have a bumbling clannish ***** with no room to hide in.

FIKRAD iyo FALANQAYN KA DHIIBO WARKAAN, KU QOR FORM-KA DHAMAADKA WARKAAN YAAL Sanca:(Allpuntland)-Madaxweynihii hore ee Jamhuuriyada Soomaaliya Mudane Cabdullaahi Yuusuf Axmed oo imika kusugan Wadanka Yemen ayaa Saacadihii lasoo markale kasoo muuqday Jariiradaha Ugu waaweyn Dunida & Warbaahinta gudaha kadib markii uu Hadalo kooban siiyey Qaarkamid ah Warbaahinta Gudaha & Jariiradaha Aduunka ugu waaweyn kuwaas oo uu Salaan & Hanbalyo uu ugu talagalay Ummada Muslimiinta ah sii marsiiyey. Mudane Cabdullaahi Yuusuf Axmed Wuxuu Hanbalyadiisa u diray guud ahaan Muslimiinta Dunida meel kasta oo ay joogaan,waxaana uu si gaar ah Hanbalyadiisa u gaarsiiyey Shacabka Soomaaliyeed oo uu dhowr sano madaxweynaha u ahaa iyagoo ku jira Burbur lixaad leh,waxaana uu ilaahay uga baryey inuu Dhibaatooyinka haysta ka dulqaado islamarkaasna uu garan siiyo Dawladnimada & Wanaaga ay leedahay. "Waxaan Hanbalyo & bogaadin u dirayaa Shucuubta Islaamka meelkasta oo ay Joogaan,Waxaan si gaar ah Hanbalyadayda u gaarsiinayaa Shacabka Soomaaliyeed ee Sharafta mudan,waxaana ilaahay ka baryayaa inuu Dhibaatooyinka & Musiibooyinka ku habsaday ka dulqaado garansiiyana Wadaninada & Dawladnimada"Ayuu yiri Cabdulaahi Yuusuf Axmed oo Si isku mid ah ula hadlay Dhowr Idaacadood oo kamid ah Idaacadaha ka hadla gudaha Soomaaliya,waxaana uu ka gaabsaday inuu ka hadlo Siyaasada Soomaaliya & meesha xun ee ay hada marayso. Madaxweynihii hore ee Jamhuuriyada Soomaaliya hadalkan uu jeediyey wuxuu kamid yahay hadalo kooban oo uu Warbaahinta siiyey kuwaas oo fara kutiris ah xili uu Xafiiska Madaxweyne nimo ee Soomaaliya & Siyaasada dalkaba uu ka maqnayahay mudo ku dhow Labo sano,Wuxuuna gabagabadii hadalkiisa ku celceliyey in loo baahanyahay inay Soomaalidu aayaheeda ka tashato. Cabdiqani Xayir Allpuntland

I think brother Thiery erred a grat deal. His death like all of ours is certain. However the problems of the south were never Yusuf's fault as we can see by today's escalation of the situation, it's gotten out of hand. Yusuf is a legend, and was right with regards to his policies. Even in retirement he brings fear to his enemies, distractors and those who long to blame him on all their mistakes.

^^^ lol@ the old man called a meeting in Villa Somalia. The point is even if we brought you video of Sharif right there clapping you would say that is his not his hands , it's all Puntland's fault. Also how do you know what noises the clan has been making lately? Anyhow this old man who convened this meeting took it upon himself to not only to make himself an ****, but to act the two current rivals of Sharif Ahmed. It's all a concidance, also this man is not Iman Mohamoud or any other elder of repute of the clan, thus why was he accorded such a platform? It's was botched attempt and only highlights what nonsense of a man Sharif Ahmed is. But no doubt you will disagree. Lol

Niina: sis what are you defending again? I am not sure I follow. This meeting took place in Villa Somalia, not in Clan gathering or water hole. It was initiated by Sharif Ahmed. http://www.jowhar.com/news.php?readmore=1441 here is a link from his own own site regarding this meeting. Thus my sister again what are you arguing about and making so much noise. this is a big scandal, and Sharif was caught red handed There is no need for a shouting match, and I do not blame the elder for this he is but a pawn at the hands of Sharif Ahmed's attack on Sharmarke & Sharif Xasan. The clan is a smokescreen.

^^^ facts are difficult for some. Its funny she is blaming others for the comments of this old man. It's Puntland's failtthis man insulted nearly every clan of Somalia. That he claimed the capital was his play ground, that he would use force as "they did before" these are his words. It's also Puntland's fault that Sharif Ahmed was there and happily clapping away when he insulted every clan known to the republic that he claims to be presidnet of. This is a scandal and Niina's comments are adding salt to an open wound.

Originally posted by NinaNC: I asked you to post an audio of Faroole's meeting with the Garaads and Issims. You can avoid all you like. Madaxweynaha waa sharci inuu beesha dooneysa iney la hadasho uu dhageysto their concerns( it just happens that he belongs to this particular beel). It is the Somali way.. Niina, sister first of all Eid Mubarak, I hope you had a great day. As for the above comment. 1. The old man was used, invited to Villa Somalia to attack two political rivals of Sharif Ahmed infront of him. He attacked and insulted the two men and their clans, he even called Sharif Xasan's clan "weak ones". He spared no one and made allot of boasts. I felt sorry for him becaue it was clear he was no more than a tool. My sister it was also very clear that those clapping for him, did so out if anger and desperation at the two me. In question notably Sharif Sakin who has now turned on his old ally Sharif Ahmed. It's unfortunate clans were used, but hey were. 2. You keep repeating about an audio of Garads & Issims of Puntland with Faroole, I am not sure what you mean. Sakhar posted this audio, if you have one of Faroole & elders insulting any clan then by all means post it. 3. It's not normal for elders to speak this way, and I don't think that this man trully represents any clan , the blame lies with Sharif Ahmed who allowed this to take place his residence and at a time he is pretending to be Presidnet.

indeed, the old warrior is missed..

Garoowe:(Allpuntland)-Gudoomiyaha Golaha Wakiilada Dawlada Puntland ee Soomaaliyeed Dr,Cabdirashiid Maxamed Xirsi ayaa maanta shacabka Magaalada Garoowe ee Caasimada dawlada Puntland kala qeybqaatay Tukashadii Salaadii Ciidul-Fidriga ee Caasimada dawlada Puntland isaga oo ay la socdaan Qaarkamid ah Xildhibaanada Golaha Wakiilada,Wasiirada,Taliyeyaasha Ciidanka & Isimada ugu waaweyn deegaanada Puntland & Jamhuuriyada Soomaaliya. Dr,Cabdirashiid Maxamed Xirsi Wuxuu Hanbalyo u diray guud ahaan Shacabka Soomaaliyeed isagoo ugu hanbalyeey Ciidul-Fidriga maanta,waxaana uu sheegey in Shacabka Soomaaliyeed ay soo mareen marxalado kaladuwan islamarkaasna ay maanta tahay in shacabku ay u istaagaan islamarkaasna ka qeybqaataan sidii dalkoodu uu Nabadii & Xasiloonidii Sharafta lahayd markale dib ugu hanan lahaa. Gudoomiyaha Golaha Baarlamaanka ee dawlada Puntland wuxuu sheegey in dhibaaooyinka kasocda dalka Soomaaliya koonfurtiisa la doonayo in dhanka Puntland loosoo weeciyo,wuxuuse ganafka ku dhuftay in taasi aysan marna Macquul ahayn islamarkaasna aysan Xukuumada Puntland oo Shacabkeeda adeegsanaysa aysan marna taas yeeli doonin islamarkaasna ay xilweyn iska saari doonaan jiritaanka Ummada reer Punland oo uu sheegey in dad wax xun doon ahi ay kusoo duuleen. Ugu Danbayn Gudoomiyaha golaha Wakiilada ee dawlada Puntland wuxuu mahadcelin balaaran usoo jeediyey Ciidamada Amaanka ee Puntland oo uusheegey inay ku amaanan yihiin sida ay saacad kasta ugu taaganyihiin Amaanka dalkooda,wuxuuna sheegey in Ciidanka Puntland ay mudanyihiin bilad geesiyaal taariikhi ah taas oo ay ku mutaysteen sida wanaagsan ee ay Amaanka dalkooda ugu taaganyihiin. Cabdiqani Xayir Allpuntland

Boosaaso:(Allpuntland)-Magaalada Boosaaso ee xarunta ganacsiga dawlada Puntland ee Soomaaliyeed ayaa maanta si weyn looga ciiday islamarkaasna lagu oogay Salaadii Ciidul-fidriga oo Duniada Islaamka guud ahaantood maanta si isku mid ah oo aanan kala har lahayn looga wada oogay islamarkaasna looga ciiday. Goob weyn oo fagaare ah islamarkaasna loogu talagalay in Salaada lagu oogo oo ka baxsan Gudaha magaalada Boosaaso ayaa maanta salaadii lagu oogay waxaana halkaas Amaankeeda aad u adkeeyey Ciidamada Amaanka ee Puntland kuwaas oo taagnaa Dariiq kasta & Wado kasta oo shacabku marayaan,waxaana ciidamada laga dareemayey Feejignaan Saa’id ah & digtooni ka turjumaysa xaalka Amaan ee magaalada Boosaaso. Madaxweynaha Xigeenka dawlada Puntland ahna kusimaha Madaxweynaha,Wasiirka Arimaha Gudaha Dawlaha Hoose & Hor’umarinta reer miyiga,Wasiirka Amniga,Wasiirka Maaliyada & Wasiirka Dekedaha,Wasiiro xigeeno,Taliye xigeenka guud ee ciidanka Booliska dawlada Puntland,Gudoomiyaha gobolka Bari,Duqa magaalada Boosaaso,Shucuub & Waxgarad aad u badan ayaa maanta goobjoog ka ahaa Tukashadii Saladii Ciida,waxaana halkaas ka hadlay qaarkamid ah dadkii goobjooga ahaa. Madaxweynaha Xigeenka Dawlada Puntland ee Soomaaliyeed islamarkaasna ah kusimaha Madaxweynaha Puntland ayaa Si qumaati ah hadal kooban ugu jeediyey kasoo qeybgalayaashii Sharafta lahaa,waxaana uu ka hadlay arimo badan oo kusaabsan Xaalka Dalka Soomaaliya & gaar ahaan deegaanada Puntland. Jen,Cabdisamed Cali Shire wuxuu sheegey in Puntland ay imika ku mashquulsantahay Amaanka Dalkeeda islamarkaasna wuxuu Shucuubta reer Puntland ugu baaqay Feejignaan saa’id ah isagoo ka codsaday inay la shaqeeyaan Ciidamada Amaanka ee dalka oo had & jeer u taagan Sugista Amaanka Puntland. Cabdiqani Xayir Allpuntland

^^^lol@ Meiji that's was funny.

Nice pic.

The comment about digging holes in the roads from Mogadishu to Ceel-Buur and then using arrows to fight Al Shabaab was the best yet.. Crazy stuff, but Sharif Ahmed desperation is telling.

Ciid Mubarak to all the Muslims around the world and our people in Somalia..

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