^^Not so fast, adeer. If I criticise Faroole I criticise his leadership style and not his person (for all I know he is a very nice chap). You want to reform the PIS whilst others want to defeat Al Shabab but I am saying to you (and I have good reason to do so) that the buck stops with the man in charge. If things are going wrong they do so because he is not doing his job properly. If I were a Puntlander you would easily see and accept my argument but since you specialise in tackling side issues (like the PIS or alleged Al Shabab movements) I fully understand why you refuse to see the obvious here. Saaxib aniga iga maqaal, Faroole wixiisu Karavan maaha, war xita awor kaliya maaha. Ka joog ban ku edhi.

^^ Lets just leave it with SOL fights, saaxib. Don't wish for needless war dee.

^^ If all people of SL were hot heads we would not have enjoyed the peace we enjoy, saaxib. Marka, keep your powder dry for when events call for your kind of skills. For now, lets praise the wisdom of he who peacefully gets his property back from the market.

^^ A hot head, by definition, is one that is incapable of seeing straight. Marka, erring on the side of caution should never be mistaken for timidity, saaxib. Especially in times of peace. Taking a step back allows you to view the whole battle field and know who to target rather than rushing in blindly and having a scuffle with Paris instead of Hector himself.

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: quote:Originally posted by NGONGE: ^^ A proper politician deals with such events BEFORE they take place, saaxib. Every single problem that Faroole faces today is something he could have foreseen and dealt with at the beginning. None of them are natural disasters or things out of his sphere of control. That the SSC discord took place, that the Galgala murmurings are taking place and that the pirates were running free all point to one thing, the incompetence of the admin. Comparing him to his predecessors shows you the level and extent of his incompetence. PL was there for twelve years, PL was functioning fine (if not perfectly) so why is PL facing so many problems today (with many of those created by Faroole himself)? The buck stops with the self declared Imaam; duhurkiisa waa shan rakcado. ^^ @ duhurkiisu waa shan rakcado You are equating challenges to failure, difference in management to incompetence. Pirates do not roam free in Puntland, your bias and inability to discern political point scoring from facts glaringly shows on in here awoowe. Faroole had slips, he occasionally misspoke, and at times reacts in a manner that does not bode well to a leader, but to say he failed is a mere opinion from a born again secessionist who has vested interest in Puntland’s failure . At least be a man like me and show some respect for the elder stateman of the east Look, I can not rid you of your paranoia about my motives here and I am actually happy to accept all the accusations you lob my way. But even if I were the most clannish, most bitter and the biggest opponent of PL who wishes for its total destruction and annihilation, my argument here still stands and it is still closer to the truth than yours saaxib. Faroole is in the same bracket as Bush, Zuma, Mugabe, Mubarak and Qadaafi. They are all incompetent politicians that create and attract problems to themselves and their administrations. Controversy follows every decision they make, every move they take and every statement they put out. PL's position being more precarious (because of the condition of Somalia) magnifies Faroole's faults a thousand times. Rest assured that if Siilaanyo has as many problems and commits as many faux pas as Faroole I would be the first person to delight in ridiculing him and calling for his resignation. Siilaanyo and Faroole are mere men, they are not the entities they control, saaxib. Wax fahan.

^^ Of course not, it's the nature of the beast, saaxib. But I always find that those that take a step back from the crowd are usually the ones that can see the furthest. Can't be more back than I already am, can I?

Originally posted by Oodweyne: Ngonge ,... Indeed, that was your "political dictum" , if memory does not fail me now... However, on the President Silanyo side of the argument, I too hope that, since he is seasoned politician's won't even have to make some of the "amateurish ones" in which President Rayale have had to make in his day in office, due to his rather "lean experience" in this field, indeed.... But, whatever the case will be, we shall see. For, I fear, that it may come down to, particularly when one come to compare the two of them in that department, as to whether "the glass is half-full, or half empty" , indeed. And, that of course, in turn, will depart how far or how close in the "branch" of the "tree" of the "clannish kind" one found oneself sitting on it, in so far the these two gentemen are concern, indeed.. In times of peace one has the luxury of forgetting about the tree or the branch, saaxib. Only when the situation reaches the level of street battles does one feel inclined to wrap himself around the tree. Doing it at any other times waa kibir iyo gardaro.

^^ A proper politician deals with such events BEFORE they take place, saaxib. Every single problem that Faroole faces today is something he could have foreseen and dealt with at the beginning. None of them are natural disasters or things out of his sphere of control. That the SSC discord took place, that the Galgala murmurings are taking place and that the pirates were running free all point to one thing, the incompetence of the admin. Comparing him to his predecessors shows you the level and extent of his incompetence. PL was there for twelve years, PL was functioning fine (if not perfectly) so why is PL facing so many problems today (with many of those created by Faroole himself)? The buck stops with the self declared Imaam; duhurkiisa waa shan rakcado.

Xiin, There is no smoke without fire, saaxib. The news portals convey existing sentiments (they might over do it but it is still there). Sorry Xiin, you can't explain the man's failings with this gruff about it being politics at its best. The man is a failure and god only knows why you refuse to see it. LST, dee runta aan isu sheegno saaxib. The PIS and all these things may have been there before Faroole became president but a seasoned politician with plans for presidency would have seen that and devised a plan for it long ago. Faroole is neither laid back like Cade before him nor is he authoritative enough like Abdullahi Yusuf. He has been president for a while now and any judge (impartial, evil or his own cousin) should surely admit that the man does not dictate events but rather lets them get on top of him and always reacts too late. On the odd occasion that he instigates an event it always has been laughable and rebounded back on him: See the arrest and release of pirates See the over-the-top reaction to an overseas caricature See the call for the citizens to bear arms See the employment of his own son as his special advisor See the deportations and the statements that followed them The man is not savvy enough nor shrewed enough to keep his mouth shut when the occasion calls for it. His decision making is flawed and he believes that the display of force is the equivalent of having authority. Yet, SSC, Galgala and the PIS itself prove that this is not the case. Ma been baan sheegay?

^^ Have you not told you that I am always on the side of he who sits on the top chair? Even better when it's an uncle of sorts. But Siilaanyo is going to make mistakes. I just hope they're of the Riyaale kind and not the Faroole ones.

^^ Faroole is no politician, saaxib. He's a thug that stepped into shoes three sizes big. When he took PL over SSC were proudly part of the state (even if LA wasn't), the Galgala clan were waving that flag like a Kanaan on speed and PL was viewed as one of the few peaceful (and organised) regions of Somalia. Now, the SSC don't want PL, the galgala clan are complaining about being picked on and some are distancing themselves from the state. Even those from the South that had doubts about PL's clannish tendencies are viewing the state in a different light today. On the other side, those belonging to the ONLF clan can't stand PL. So, tell me again if this is not failure, saaxib. You better pray that some reasonable people can catch the man before he burns the place down. P.S. No need to mentin Amin Amir, pirates and the sacking of MPs.

^^ Nothing to do with me, boss. Mr Guled's article disagrees with my view on clans. He's having a dig at SL whilst appealing to the general (conventional) wisdom re clans. I disagree with both.

Originally posted by Sakhar_The: Ngonge is human and as he has found himself more often than he wanted on the losing side in most threads him and Duke debated, he follows and takes retributions as an consequence and action. It's human trait after all to take acts of revenge and reprisals though of the bad category scale of human emotions. However Farole with all his mistakes has made the right decision. The PIS are heroes and xiinfaniin has no valid reason to question their role as they're the most useful and loyal organ the State has thus far and without them, there would be no Puntland and no Peace today. As we speak PIS units are in full control of Bosaso. They catch all the criminals, murderers and terrorists. They succeed where others fail to react or pre-empt. They're highly trained individuals who know how to survey, catch and react to everything that goes on where they are stationed. They're the special units within Puntland's arsenal of police, birmad, bol-bir, standard Darawiish army, Coast guard army and other special security units. PIS is the elite of all of them. Where they're they put everyone to sleep, Where they go everything is quiet. No one moves, no one dares to commit an act of criminal activity because they know the elite is there and they will catch them. PIS's success rate is the highest shame that they don't operate all the time in the major cities or are visible on the street everyday but when they come, calms comes with them. They're the strong arm of the State, it's life line and resort when everything seems to go wrong once the PIS arrives the problems go as criminals flee the scene because they know of PIS' reputation and high success rate of catching criminals. Back to Farole, Farole was duped for almost a whole year by elders who he was taking advice from. But I'm proud of Farole whatever the past, I'm proud today that he is my President. I'm proud of his call and awakening of the long slumber he was in. I'm proud that he finally realised and mobilised the army and let the PIS reign again on the streets of Puntland's economical capital of Bosaso. I'm proud of his defiance. I'm proud of his leadership. I'm proud that he is a Puntlander by heart and tongue. Farole changed governors, mayors tried to re-structure the PIS and sacked it's commander Osman Abdullahi Diano to appease the terrorists and other outside enemies of the State in Galgala he tried everything but was lead into the wrong direction but finally he got it right and now is stepping up to the issue. No more slumber Farole. There will be no negotiations, there will be a wipe out and a closing of this episode. Galgala will be returning to the State's government and the enemies of the state will thus again be send packing. We all support Farole in his last efforts and his wake up from the slumber and misguidance and deceit of the people he trusted. We have been through much worse this will be another chapter in Puntland's history where by a small group tried to set up shop there but failed. All the invaders will be crushed and this is not the emotional me but the realist. The people of Puntland are good and peace loving citizens but there patience has been running slim lately. Somalis know only when you hit them hard enough that they will respect you and Farole is doing this by crushing the Galgala terrorists. No elder or wishful thinking clannist will change the course or route of this. Victory will be ours because we are on the right path and our enemies are in the wrong path. We will prevail. Adeer iga daa dee. I am with Duke when Duke makes sense and against him when he doesnt'. I don't need to argue with him here because we both agree on the incompetence of Faroole. As for my past encounters with Duke, I am glad you were there to take scores and keep an eye on things, one does not like to be mugged. Now lets turn to you and your shameless praise of Faroole. You say he's the greatest thing since Xalwo! But I doubt that the SSC crew, the galgala clan or the deported refugees would agree with you. The list of errors and mistakes the man made are as long as Xiin's arm yet that man still thinks Faroole has not failed and you yourself are coming here trying to sell us this nonesense about him being a good leader. A man that wanted to sue Amin Amir for a joke picture? Ceeb, ceeb, adeer isku xishoow.

Juxa, Alle-ubaahane waa ahlu al sunta whilst Maaddeey is only Al Sacaab. Isku mid maaha. Welcome back saaxib.

^^ See him chase Xaaji X around these days? Wuxuu is leeyahay kanaad is af garanaysan.

Clans are good. Clans are healthy. Clans create the state, and as long as the state does not offend or belittle any clans the clans will ensure and encourage the survival of the state. Clan is EVERYTHING. Wax fahma.

^^ Bacda iska fur ninyaho. I, of course, enjoy watching you and Xiin trying to make head or tails out of this mess but Faroole's actions, personality and poltics do not give me any enjoyment whatsoever. Politics and online arguments aside, I'm still human, saaxib. Actions that may cause the death of innocents (even those from PL) are as disgusting to me as an AMISOM rocket or Al Shabab homemade bomb. WAX FAHAN. P.S. I stand by what I wrote above. It is Faroole that is the problem and not Atam.

Originally posted by Sayid*Somal: define irony and do you know of socratic irony? In this instance it seems to mean: stuck between a rock and a hard place. The problem is really not Atam or the PIS. The real problem that PL has is Faroole and his way of handling things. He allowed events to overtake him and is not in control of the situation now. To regain his authority he needs to bring both sides to the table and preside (as much as they would allow him to) over a process of direct negotation and reconciliation. To choose the PIS over Atam will only complicate the situation (as is evident) and increase the clannish discord.

Central Midfield Role - Dosen't mention Lucas but isn't that what he does?

^^ He is doing what everyone else is doing, saaxib. Why are you picking on him alone? War let the man defend his uncle against some of the over the top accusations. To say MSB wasn't a saint is one thing but to say that he used to eat PL/SL babies for breakfast (or some such madness) is another. P.S. The galgala crew are up to no good in this thread. Paragon is trying to swerve that free kick behind a huge wall.

This is a more interesting rebirth of Cheif. Keep it up. Though it's stuff and nonesense it is at least witty.

^^ Too much to translate. The first is a poem that wonders if the sheikh has forsaken the Quran and choosing to listen to Nancy (and other singers) instead. It lists names of famous scholars from history and wonders if the sheikh has forgotten all about them. The second replies to that and says that the sheikh is only asking for proof about Music being xaraam (for the sunna or the quran). Yes, the Music fatwa (and the breastfeeding fatwa) is an old one. This sheikh actually says he made this fatwa six years ago. But the magazine interview brought it back (as did a TV interview with the breastfeeding one). You have to bear in mind that thousands of Saudis have spent the past thirty years going out to study in the West and many returned with different outlooks and extereme liberal attitudes. Add to that those in the media who follow the trendy method of "creating the news" rather than just reporting it. A good example is the recent shooting of that Turkish relief ship by Jewish soldiers. At the same time of such news, the fatwa for breastfeeding was also out and being given too much air time. It's news, it's controversial and it gets people talking. The Saudi media does it either to increase circulation/ratings or to advance a certain agenda. Still, all these "crazy" fatwas and the shock they create will eventually lead to something in that society. Whatever that something is, it will sooner or later spread to other areas of the Muslim world (just like everything else in the past did). We live in interesting times, ayeeyo. P.S. The Western media get their information from the Saudi media and Saudi people. There (sadly) they refer to his colour even more.

Much ado about nothing really. He was bound to say that regardless of any corruption.

^^ How about music? What did you think of the music discussion?

^^ The image you had, be honest it was Hugh was it not? (waxaan kale nagaa daa, you missed the point).