^^ In your head, is your moder man played by Hugh Grant too?

Do what you like, Ibti. I can't stop you. Just do me a favor and tell me in advance what topics don't meet with your majesty's approval so that I don't waste my time contributing to them in future.

No. I am going to make a complaint about you. The topic has moved from breast feeding and it is about music now. It is you girls who are obsessing about breasts and seeing things that are not there. I am annoyed, you witches. I spent twenty minutes looking for those sources that Haatu asked for. Bloody women!

I can see that you ladies are having fun and can even understand how talk about breasts might make you feel uncomfortable but I fully object to this silly hijacking of the topic, you witches. Now please return to the troll corner and stop spoiling a good thread dammit. :mad:

^^ If it's the title, can't you ask the moderator above you to change the title, you mad woman.

Ibti, the title says exactly what the topic is about. There is nothing dirty about this topic.

^^ What is wrong now? I was busy earlier dee. Honest. Arch, I blame Norf. He had to have a text convo with one and now they can't stop.

Ladies, this is a good informative thread. Don't spoil it just because you find the topic disgusting. Wax fahma.

I believe I am a modern man and a civilised husband. I believe so because I followed all the essential steps and paid heed to the happening trends. Nappies, I changed. Hoovering, I did. I even attempted cooking on more than one occasion. The wife is free to go out and seek employment, the girls are not forced into housework at an early age and the heir to the throne is being taught about equality. It is modern, it is fair and it is all taking place at NGONGE Towers. I am also a traditional man. I believe families should follow a set formula and that positions, duties and roles should always be clear. Therefore, when I go to work in the morning and return home in the evening the least I should expect is dinner on my table and a happy family greeting me as I come in (I am still working on the second part). Occasionally, and due to events out of my control, I find that I may have to waive the dinner on the table rule. This is not a problem and as a self-proclaimed modern man it is something I have grown to accept and disregard. One of the children could be ill for instance and the wife needs to take them to the hospital, which may result in my dinner not being cooked on time. A relative might have needed help and the wife might need to accompany them somewhere, which may result in my dinner not being cooked on time. A vital ingredient might be missing and the wife may need to run to the supermarket to purchase it, which may result in my dinner not being cooked on time. The examples are numerous and there is no time to list them all here nor is that really our topic. The point is; I am a modern man that understands and accepts that problems may sometimes play a part in my dinner not being cooked on time. When such an occurrence takes place, the wife is usually sharp enough to call me in advance and inform me of this fact. This leaves me with the gigantic task of deciding what to have for dinner. You see, some people have a natural ability to instantly decide on their food (or was that feet?). I am not one of such people. I have to weigh the pros and cons of choosing a Chinese over an Indian, a Pizza over a Kebab or a Somali restaurant over a Tuna sandwich. It is not an easy task and it often leaves me with no appetite for food at all. Therefore, I always base my choice on the meal that can be prepared the quickest. With Chinese food, I usually find the laidback nature of the people behind the counter very off putting. They assure me that the food will only take five minutes to prepare but they are often too slow in taking my order that I start to doubt the five minutes deadline (and I am usually correct). This is why I never buy Chinese on the days when events conspire to deny me a homemade dinner. Indians and especially Indians in restaurants are the quintessential YES men. If you walk into an Indian restaurant and ask the waiter “can you cook me a fish leg” his first reply is almost always a resounding YES. An elephant’s trunk, a rhino’s horn or a bird’s teeth, they will always reply in the affirmative then go inside and bring you lamb or chicken curry. This is why I never buy Indian on the days when events conspire to deny me a homemade dinner. Pizza takes forever to prepare and has the added difficulty of having to decide what toppings to have. This is why I never buy Pizza on the days when events conspire to deny me a homemade dinner. The same applies to Kebabs and the eternal questions of “with or without salad?”, “Chilli Sauce?”, “Eat in or takeaway?”, etc. On the days when events conspire to deny me a homemade dinner, I always opt for a healthy portion of Chicken & Chips. There is no thinking involved with this delightful meal and you do not even have to get into a long discussion with the salesperson. You simply walk into the shop, look at the big menu above your head and point to the “Two pieces of chicken & chips” sign. In less than five minutes, you find that your dinner is ready. Eating in or taking it away is all up to you. This has been my alternative dinner for so long that my entire extended family knows what I will do should events ever conspire to deny me a homemade dinner. So, it did not come as a total surprise when I received a text from my wife yesterday, with the words “Get Chicken & Chips”. Bloody events! Of course, being the modern civilised man that I am, I sent her a text back asking her “how many”! This is when she phoned me and confessed that it was not her who wrote the message and that she actually cooked today (hurrah!). She claimed that my six year old son was playing with her phone and that he must have been the one who wrote me the message. I wasn’t listening of course, I was simply happy to know that today was a homemade dinner day. As I left work later, I received another text message. It said: “Matagooni wrote that, daddy. You choose. From NGONGA”. I smiled at the clarification then quickly frowned as I realised I was being presented with a choice! What does she mean by ‘you choose’? I don’t want to choose. I hate choosing. Her mother already told me that she cooked and I would look real silly if I still went ahead and bought Chicken & Chips. And, at any rate, why are they not putting this choice to their mother? She should be the one who chooses. After all, she is the one who wasted her time cooking. I don’t want to cause a diplomatic incident at home. The mother should choose. As I strolled on and irritatingly thought about the decision I had to make, I received yet another text message. It said “Just get chicken and chips!”. Who sent this? Is it still the kids or is it the wife? It is her phone after all. I scrutinised the words and the huffy style but I was still none the wiser. It is possible it was still the kids who wrote this and the use of the word ‘just’ was put there to encourage me to ignore their mother and do what they want instead. On the other hand, why can it not be the mother, who after getting fed up with all the pestering and begging gave in and decided to fire a quick text message asking me to get the darn Chicken & Chips? She didn’t even write PLEASE. It must be the mother! That exclamation mark at the end says “FED UP” like nothing else could. I walked into the C&C shop and ordered five portions. As I stood waiting for them to be readied, I received another text message. It said: “Are you buying Chicken & Chips? Matagooni told me. From GONGITA”. So it wasn’t the mother! The three rascals have tricked me into buying them Chicken & Chips. Now their mother will complain about wasting her time cooking food that is not appreciated and may even make hints about slave labour, downtrodden women and Stone Age attitudes. Five portions of Chicken & Bloody Chips will turn progressive, modern, civilised me back into a caveman. Bloody kids. As I stood there thinking about ways to explain this situation to the wife and making her see that misunderstandings could easily happen, I heard the Chicken & Chips man ask “Would you like Ketchup on that”! Bloody Chicken & Chips.

^^ See what I mean? You don't get it, saaxib. He that views everything through the eyes of SL is aware of his bias and makes it clear to all readers where his starting point is. Your idea of objectivity is to bash everyone in equal measure. It works when dealing with children and not having time to hear a long story about who was wrong and who was right but it is in no way objective. Wax fahan.

The Shiekh's site where he replies to another Shiekh who did not agree with the fatwa A written interview with a magazine talking about the fatwa An article in English about the fatwa and people's strange reactions That last one is for the fun of it and neither proves nor denies the fatwa. Happy Haatu?

^^ Celebrity news is on all kinds of media these days, saaxib. Ms Lohan's recent prison story was on BBC news (and I bet it would have been on Al Jazeera, Al Arabia and others). The shiekh is not blind or isolated, adeer. Haatu, what do you mean by proof? If I find you the fatwa it will be in Arabic. The topic is all over Saudi news, saaxib. It's not something I made up. Wax fahan.

Originally posted by Allamagan: ^ Zack, sxb raggu isku garasha ma ahan markaa halayaabin reerkana odayga illaa al aankay ku qarwaan. Ppl moved on, welina meeshi ayeey taagan yihiin, rag wuu dirriraa wuuna heshiiyaa wax kasta oo rag dhex maraa aaqir wax waa isu ogolyihiin waana heshiiyaa balse waxan ragna ahayn maxay kuu ogolyihiin halkaasay baroor la soo fardhiisani. Dhurwaa baa laga sheegay haddaan dumarka xoolahooda xoola ka aqaano waligaay ma taabteen. Hadda dharbaaxsho yaroo canaana iyo wax tusaalayn oo berri macallinku AUN u dhigay niman dhowra oo kacaan diida ayeey illaa hadda weli hadal hayaan dhaafi la'yihin, ninkiina tagyey, dalkii gacanta kuma jiro manta xaggee wax laga qabtaa malahan, caku garasho! The one who started the thread was praising the man and you were happy to join in the praise (though even you would admit he was a controversial figure), marka dee lets be fair and take the criticism with the praise, saaxib.

CL, idar aaw mere billi. ye aadmi bil kol baagal he.

^^A&T is not being a cadow. It's his incorrect idea of objectivity that confuses people. He believes that by criticising PL, SL, TFG and even his own ONLF he is being fair and objective. And, I admit that there is some logic in that but the application of course is all, err, ONLF (as in hit and run).

^^ Muse Biixi naga daa sheekadiisa dee.

الا اني قتلت يوم قتل الثور الاسود.....

As of today, UWSLF are not Somali according to the rules set down by Mujaahid A&T in his seminal paper glowing fly half moon (or whatever that title was).

Why after Atam is dealt with and not before? Would he not be talking from a position of power then and threaten all dissenters with the fate of Atam?

Originally posted by General Duke: ^^^ quote: Farooole iyo Jabhadiisa SSDF ayagaa dagaal kula jira shacabka SSC iyo hogaanka SSC Nonsense adeer, this is a "war" between men from the US, Garad Jama & Saleban and a man from Oz, Faroole. Dont bring the people into it... Says the man from America (via London). Originally posted by 'Liibaan': quote:Originally posted by General Duke: ^^^ Nonsense adeer, this is a "war" between men from the US, Garad Jama & Saleban and a man from Oz, Faroole. Dont bring the people into it... Cadowga Kowaad ee SSC waa SSDF/SNM Cadowga labaad na? I do love SOL. They write the stuff, press Add Reply and then (maybe) THINK about what they posted.

For those that read Arabic, the Music argument has turned into a poetry conversation between two sheikhs (or so it was alleged). Here is one telling Sheikh Kalbani to think again about his fatwa: أرفق بنفسك عادل الكلباني فلقد أبحت معازف الألحان أرفق بنفسك فالحياة قصيرة مهما تعش فيها من الأزمان أرفق بنفسك لا أخالك جاهلا إن اتبـاع الحق في الإذعان أحقيقة ما قــــد تناقله الملا فرأيته ضربآ مــن الــهذيان إني أعيذك أن تكون مكابرآ فارجع إلى ما كنت من إحسان بالأمس كنت إمام أطهر بقعة شهرآ أمام البيت ذي الأركان واليوم أنت مع المعازف مفتيآ بجـــــوازها ياخيبة الإخوان هل تاق سمعك للفتـاة أصالة أم تقت سمعآ للمخضرم هاني هل أنت مشتاق لنبرة عـجرم أم صرت ترقب عاصي الحلاني أم قد سئمت مـن التلاوة مدة فأردت تبديلآ لـها بأغـاني أم قد كرهت مقال كل محرم جعل المعازف رقية الشيطان هل ضقت ذرعآ من إمامة مالك وإمامـــة الفذ الفتى النعماني والشافعي الألـــمعي محمــد أو رأس أهل السنة الشيباني أو من يسير على طريقة أحمد فانقاد وفق مراده بأمــان هل ضقت ذرعا بالأئمة كلهم ورحمت كـل مزمر فتـــان هذا حديث الناس إثر مقالكم مــــالي برد الشامتين يــــدان أولم يسعك اليوم ماوسع الأولى فلقد كفوك القول بالبرهـــان إني سأذكر بيت صاحب حكمة فلقد أجـــاد مـــوفقآ ببيـــان إحذر هديت فتحت رجلك حفرة كم قد هوى فيها من الإنسان ولسوف أذكر ما حكاه محمد أعني بــه ابن القيم الربـاني حـب الكتاب وحب الحان الغنا في قلب عبد ليس يجتمعــان ياعادل هذي نصيحة مشفق بر صدوق مــحسن معــوان ستظل تندب مانطقت به غدآ والقسط عندالله بالــــميزان يتبرأ المتبوع مــــن أتباعـــه ويفر إخــوان من الإخــوان فالحكم للحق القوي بعدله والفصل يوم الـدين للـديان سيقول مستمع المعازف حينها يارب أفتاني بـــها الكلباني Now someone pretending to be sheikh Kalbani replies with these choice words: - هاتِ الدليلَ بحكمةٍ وبيانِ *** وارفق بنفسكَ يا أخا القرآنِ - لا تعجلنَّ فلن تراني مرسلاً *** من عندِ ربٍ واحدٍ ديّانِ 3- بعدَ التثبُّتِ قُلتها متأكداً *** إن الغناءَ أُبيحَ للإخوانِ 4- فإذا أصبتُ فذاكَ ما أصبو لهُ *** وإذا زللتُ فقد يزلُّ لساني 5- أستغفرُ الله العظيمَ لزلَّتي *** فهوَ الذي بكتابهِ ربَّاني 6- دعْ ما يقولُ به الأئمةُ كلُهمْ *** وقلِ الرسولُ عنِ الغناءِ نهاني 7- هلْ لي بإثباتٍ بقولِ رسولِنا *** إنَّ الغِنَاءَ معازفُ الشيطانِ ؟ ؟ ! 8- هلْ قيلَ حُرِّمَ سَمعُها بصراحةٍ *** في محكمِ الآياتِ والقرآنِ ؟ ؟ ! 9- ما كنتُ في فتوايَ مثلَ مكابرٍ *** بعدَ الدليلِ يسيرُ في الطُغْيانِ 10- ماكنتُ أهمزُ من يخُالفني على *** رأيي ويلمزُني كما الفوزانِ 11- أمَّيّْتُ في البيتِ الحرامِ لفترةً *** ما ذاكَ يابنَ العمِّ بالنقصانِ 12- ما كنتُ أُجبرُ من يُعَارضُني على *** فتوايَ مثلَ بقيةِ الإخوانِ 13- ماتاقَ سمعيَ للفتاةِ أصالةٍ *** ماتاقَ سمعي للمخضرمِ هاني 14- فلعلمُكمْ باسمِ الفتاةِ أصالةٍ *** أو بالمخضرمِ منْ ذكرتَ الثاني 15- جعلَ الخلائقَ كلها طربى لهم *** هذا المخضرمُ مطربُ الآذانِ 16- أتصدُّ شيخيَ عنْ سماعِ مخضرمٍ *** ما ذاكَ عدلٌ والذي سوّاني - أنتَ الذي سمَّيتهُ بمخضرمٍ *** ومضيتَ تذكرُ عاصيَ الحلاني 18- ونطقتَ سخريةً بنبرةِ عجرمٍ *** أم أنني أعمى منَ العميانِ 19- أمّا التلاوةُ ما سئمتُ حنينَها *** فبها أغنِّي مُسْمعاً ألحاني 20- ولقدْ رجوتُ بما مضى بقصيدتي *** وطلبتُ منكَ أدلةَ الحرمانِ 21- فاكتبْ دليلكَ لا أخالكَ جاهلاً *** وأريدهُ بصراحةٍ وبيانِ 22- ما ضقتُ ذرعاً من إمامةِ مالكٍ *** أتراهُ مرسولاً من الرحمنِ ؟ ؟ ! 23- أتَرىَ الأئمةَ يا أخيَّ بعلمهمْ *** عُصِموا من الأخطاءِ والنسيانِ ؟ ؟ ! 24- آرائهمْ بينَ الصوابِ وعكسهِ *** لمْ يجبروا أحداً على الإذعانِ 25- أنا إنْ كرهتُ مقالَ كلّ محرمٍ *** فلأنهُ يخلوا من البرهانِ 26 - إنْ كانَ لي من حُجَّةٍ أو مرجعٍ *** فهو النبيُّ المرسلُ الربّاني

Morning all.

^^ The sheikh is probably well read. I have not heard a single song of Lady Gaga but I still heard of the woman. Antara, to say he's pushing a government agenda is to accuse the sheikh of deceit. Not nice, saaxib. He is human, he can err all by himself and without any nudges from the royal family. Still, it is all happening in Saudi Arabia.

RIYADH - One cleric's endorsement of breastfeeding for grown men and another's saying music is not un-Islamic have opened up a pitched battle in Saudi Arabia over who can issue fatwas, or Islamic religious edicts. Hardline and progressive religious scholars, judges and clerics have taken the fight public in what some describe as outright "chaos" in the once ivory-tower world of setting the rules that govern much of life in the ultra-conservative Muslim kingdom. Much of the fight in the past week has focused on a fatwa endorsing music issued by Adel al-Kalbani, a Riyadh cleric famed as the first black imam at the Grand Mosque in Mecca, Islam's holiest city. Kalbani, popular for his soulful baritone delivery of Koranic readings, said he found nothing in Islamic scripture that makes music haram, or forbidden. But, aside from some folk music, public music performance is banned in Saudi Arabia, and conservatives say it is haram even in the home. "There is no clear text or ruling in Islam that singing and music are haram," Kalbani said. Also in recent weeks, a much more senior cleric, Sheikh Abdul Mohsen al-Obeikan, raised hackles with two of his opinions, both of which could be considered fatwas. First, he endorsed the idea that a grown man could be considered as a son of a woman if she breast-feeds him. The issue, based on an ancient story from Islamic texts and source of a furore last year in Egypt, is seen by some as a way of getting around the Saudi religious ban on mixing by unrelated men and women. It brought ridicule and condemnation from women activists and Saudi critics around the world. But Obeikan, a top advisor in the court of King Abdullah, who is believed to be supportive of a less severe Islam in his kingdom, also angered conservatives when he said the compulsory midday and mid-afternoon prayer sessions could be combined to help worshippers skirt the intense heat of summer. While the choice is allowed for individuals in certain circumstances, conservatives say such a broad ruling for everyone is wrong. The comments by Obeikan and Kalbani brought rebukes from top-level clerics seeking to get control of a debate that has erupted into freewheeling public discussions in the media and on the Internet. In his Friday sermon at Mecca's Grand Mosque, the influential Sheikh Abdul Rahman al-Sudais lashed out at what he labelled "fraudulent" fatwas, likening their originators to market vendors selling fake or spoiled goods. The effect, he said, goes so far as to undermine the country's security. Meanwhile, the country's grand mufti, Sheikh Abdulaziz al-Sheikh, warned of a crackdown. "Those who offer abnormal fatwas which have no support from the Koran should be halted," he said on Al-Majd television on Sunday. "If a person comes out (with fatwas) and he is not qualified, we will stop him," he said, comparing such a person to a quack doctor allowed to treat patients. Underpinning the sometimes esoteric debate is a real fight over liberalising the Saudi version of Islam, which bans women from driving and forces all shops to close down during the five-times-daily prayers. Crucially, the government is also moving to build a consistency in the Islamic sharia law-based legal system, where judges are all clerics for whom fatwas play a crucial role. The government wants only one body, controlled by the powerful Council of High Ulema, to issue fatwas, which other clerics must accept. Some people want fatwas more attuned to modern life. "The people are governed by old ideas," historian and columnist Mohammad al-Zulfa to AFP. "People are forming a new mentality. (Many) have been waiting for such fatwas for a long time," he said about Kalbani. "We are part of the world. We have to develop the legal system to meet the needs of the modern time," he added. Earlier this year there was an embarrassing fight over the apparently free-thinking head of Mecca's religious police, Ahmed al-Ghamdi, who shocked many by endorsing mixing by men and women. He was fired, and then reinstated, in a behind-the-scenes skirmish between conservatives and progressives. Hamad al-Qadi, a member of the Saudi Shura Council, called the fatwa fight this week "chaos". "The Islamic world follows whatever comes out of our country and its scholars concerning Islam," he said, according to Al-Hayat newspaper. For his part, Kalbani said he was open to discussion on the issue. "The problem is that there are some who do not accept debate at all," he said. He clarified that he was not endorsing all music, using two often risque Lebanese pop singers as examples. "I am talking about decent singing, which contains decent words, and supports morality," he told the online newspaper Sabq.org. "I am definitely not talking about the songs of Nancy Ajram or Haifa Wehbe or other indecent songs." However, "if Nancy Ajram sang a song with a positive message, then she would be within my fatwa." AFP