^^ I posted this on Friday, XX. You're losing your touch, adeer. http://www.somaliaonline.com/community/showthread.php/62077-%E2%80%9CWe-love-our-Queen%E2%80%9D-%E2%80%9CWe-want-to-come-home%E2%80%9D-and-%E2%80%9CSupport-the-Commonwealth%E2%80%9D

NASSIR;788187 wrote: Che, The UK government seems , at the time, to be receptive to a new beginning from its old ways, but we won't forget and forgive what it has done to our regions. Nonsense. The UK government, if anything, is carrying on with its old policy of assisting Somaliland but waiting for others to recognise it first. In fact, looking at the recent debate in the UK parliament and the exchanges that took place between the MPS (with mostly pro SL MPs having the lion share of the discussion) it seems that the UK is about to spring a surprise in this upcoming conference. - The British FM has confirmed that the newly appointed ambassador to Somalia has no business to do with SL and that things will still remain to be done through the embassy in Addis. - The British are happy to make a distinction between SL & Somalia when discussing both sides. - The British confirm that the only thing stopping them from recognising Somaliland are accusations of colonialist meddling and insist that African countries should be the first to do so. However, what's the betting that they'll take the opportunity to convince, pressure and persuade some of the 50 countries attending the conference to look sympathetically upon the SL case? - The British set up the Somaliland Development Corporation and (for maximum publicity and reach) will launch it a DAY before the conference commences. The coming days will show what the British government has up her sleeve. If the publicity for the conference (which is bound to be intensified as the date approaches) portrays SL as a progressive, peaceful and a promising democracy then we’ll know that the inevitable stitch up is on the Somali Republic. However, if it at all mentions the temporary meteor showers that are Khaatumo, Awadal & Maakhir then the stitch up may just be on the Somaliland Republic. As things stand though, I would bet on option one being the correct one. In addition, with the expected bickering between the many Somali factions attending this conference SL has a great opportunity to maintain its aloofness and subtly point to the collection of primitive partners the world is forcing them to work with. Furthermore (and with the possible assistance of the Brits and others), it can mingle amongst the many invited guests and build up a contact list that may help it in the near future (and the Turkey conference) if not in the immediate future. All in all, the signs are much more positive than many of the naysayers think. Don’t let the recent sparks mesmerize you just yet Nassir. SL is in a very good place, fellow citizen.

^^ Will any of the Qardho caaqils happen to be passing London on the evening of the 22nd? We can find them an Acacia tree in Kew Gardens or something. War ana waxan ku edhi there is another stitch up coming but we don't know who will get done this time. The only consolation for any worried person is that it could never be anyone worse than Sheikh Hotel.

^^ The dreaming professor naga daa and check out Cabdi (I bet he's right up your street). http://allafrica.com/stories/201202101070.html (Should I have had it as a thread on its own?).

^^ Al Shabab claim to belong to the biggest clan of all, adeer. Wax fahan.

The House Of Commons debate on Somalia. The SL lobby was in flow. Here are some quotes that may annoy A&T (the SL government was telling the truth). Alun Michael (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op): What the Foreign Secretary says about the situation in Somalia is absolutely true, and his interest in it is greatly appreciated not only in this country but, I am sure, worldwide. Will he take the opportunity to clarify the situation with regard to Somaliland, about which there is sometimes misunderstanding? As he said, there has been no effective central Government in the former Somalia for more than 20 years, but there has been a very effective Government in Somaliland, albeit that it has not been recognised as a separate state. Will he take the opportunity to acknowledge that difference between the situation in the north and the south? Mr Hague: Yes, of course. The right hon. Gentleman has been a great expert on, and friend of, Somaliland for a long time, and we can indeed make that distinction. I spoke to the President of Somaliland last week to encourage him to come to the London conference, and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Development has visited Somaliland. We give it a lot of assistance in many ways and welcome the fact that it has become a more stable area within Somalia, and we will welcome its participation at the London conference. I will come back to Somaliland later. That is what the Somalia conference will aim to do. We have invited Government and multilateral organisations that are active and influential on Somalia; representatives from Somalia, including the transitional federal institutions; the Presidents of Puntland and Galmudug; and representatives of Aluh Sunnah wal Jamaah. We welcome the participation of the President of Somaliland, with the experience that Somaliland can provide of peacebuilding in the region. Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con): I would be interested to hear from the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for North West Norfolk (Mr Bellingham), about the two-state solution that was mentioned by the right hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Alun Michael). I have to confess that I have an open mind on that question, but I find it slightly ironic that a Welsh MP who believes in the United Kingdom should be calling for such a separation in Somalia. Alun Michael: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? Richard Ottaway: Yes—I asked for that. Alun Michael: In Wales we believe in the value of being part of the United Kingdom as well as having certain devolved matters. Were that choice available to the Somalilanders, it would be acceptable, but it should be their choice. Richard Ottaway: My comment, made in jest, has produced a serious response from the right hon. Gentleman. Countries that function well should stay together, but those that do not function well obviously do not want to know about each other. I would be interested to hear the Minister’s views on that matter. Will the Minister give comfort to President Silanyo and those who have supported him in his difficult decision by agreeing that the conference communiqué should contain explicit references to Somaliland that welcome his participation; note Somaliland’s achievements in building peace and democracy; draw attention to the relevance of the Somaliland experience to the problem of securing peace in Somalia; note the assistance through humanitarian aid that I have mentioned; thank it for its co-operation in the fight against terrorism and piracy; and encourage Somaliland’s wider economic interaction? My second point is that I know that the Minister has already welcomed one initiative, namely the establishment of the Somaliland Development Corporation. It is being established because of the lack of recognition that makes involvement in international trade and business difficult. It will be launched on 22 February, the day before the conference, which Ministers will host. The point of the corporation is to facilitate international investment in Somaliland and economic interaction for the benefit of the Somaliland people. As an unrecognised state, it is isolated. Despite its extraordinary achievements in stability and democracy, international donors cannot deal directly with its Government, and foreign investors face uncertainty about whether contracts—the basis of secure business—can be enforced. The point of the corporation is to establish an entity to circumvent that problem. Indeed, I hope that it might lead the Foreign Office, through our trade arrangements, to be able to underpin some of the potential for business development and trade with Somaliland, which is difficult at present. The development corporation will deal with donors such as Governments, aid agencies and international financial institutions; individuals, including enhancing the contribution that is made by many members of the Somaliland diaspora, as the Foreign Secretary rightly said; philanthropists and foundations; and foreign companies that wish to invest for profit. The founding directors are co-operating with the Crown Agents on the provision of banking services, and the intention is to develop a business plan with aims and objectives in the short, medium and longer term that will be available on the corporation’s website. The plan would be influenced by the development priorities of the Somaliland Government, the decisions of the two boards and the Somaliland development corporation trust. The launch on 22 February will show the confidence of the Somaliland Government in engaging with business and economic development as well as being a participant at the table at the conference. I particularly welcome the Foreign Secretary’s visit to Mogadishu a few days ago and his appointing an ambassador to that country. That signals confidence that progress can be made, and confidence is enormously important, given that for 21 years there has been none in that regard. The appointment did raise a frisson of concern in Somaliland, which thought that in some ways this might symbolise a belief on the British Government’s part that diplomatic channels should be concentrated through that avenue. I was grateful to the Minister for his Department’s confirming that the arrangements for Somaliland will continue to be made through the deputy ambassador to Ethiopia, who has specific responsibility for relations with Somaliland. The rest can be found here: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201212/cmhansrd/cm120209/debtext/120209-0002.htm#12020952000002

Che, Faisal alone is not enough. Plus, most of the time, Faisal is just a joke. There has to be a proper opposition in the media. Having said all of that, I don't (of course) agree with Goth's speculation above. Siilaanyo is more extereme than even the Guru when it comes to the SL cause. It's a waste of time to argue otherwise.

^^ Dee I don't know you. I know Sayid personally and can vouch for him and trust him. Adigu you're all over the place. Likewise, Somalis know their clansmen and would vouch for them, they don't know the 'others' and, don't trust them. As for what you're talking about. I beg to differ and would actually champion the 4.5 system. It did not come out of thin air, saaxib. It is there because Somalis (or rather their leaders) demanded it and will continue to demand it. You can your fellow dreamers can oppose it all you like, it will still carry on being used (in one form or another) until Somali finally gets fixed (and it wont get fixed without it). p.s. For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not claiming to be a Qardaawi here.

Sayid*Somal;787644 wrote: No, i am not missing any point (unless it is hidden like your optimism) The practicality of implementing the idea is within the idea itself saxiib. Talk about who is missing the point. If you like the idea and you are given how it should be implemented and you also like that and more importantly you are Somali yourself (of course; born of noble clan) - what is the fuss then? Weesadaydiina weli waan qaba! Using sand can replace weeyso now and again but you seem to be mistaking it with sticking your head in the sand, adeer. Ya saaxibi, the idea is BRILLIANT and I trust you to implement it but I don't trust Carafat and Somalia, sadly, is full of Carafat's. Marka naga daa dee.

^^ Mac mac kor iyo sideways? War ma islaan baad tahay? Lakin waa runta. Salaan ka go'day payslipka iyo annual returnka ayaan kuu diray, saaxib.

^^ (ma tedhi?). Protecting the man from himself? These are Shababi tendencies you're displaying there, adeer. Is qabo ban ku edhi. As for the rest of what you wrote there; there is nothing immoral about what I am saying. I'm telling you that clan is the problem and in order to sort Somalia you need to consider it, take it into account and embrace it. That you think clan is an ugly concept is neither here nor there, adeer. Somalis (by their actions and prononcements) don't and you are outnumbered here. Get on with it. Sayid, As ever, you are missing the entire point, saaxib. What is a good idea to you is also a good idea to me, ninyaho. But while you stop at the idea itself, I look at the practicalities of it and KNOW that Somalis will fall out along tribal lines when push comes to shove. I know it, not because i'm some sort of fortune-teller or magician. I know it from EXPERIENCE (one that you too should have). Marka naga daa oo weesada ku so cel celi ban ku idhi.

Salaam Juxa. Can I sue my coworkers & bosses for *********? No win, no fee? (I met Sayid already, no need for extra salaam).

^^ Not at all. My glass is always half full, saaxib. But, with Somalis, I keep it well hidden. Sayid, everyone has dreams and everyone wants such dreams fulfilled, saaxib. But in order to achieve your dreams you have to take some practical steps first. The biggest leap (in your case) involves the fact that Somalis without clans are not Somalis. This fact should be central to any dreams or solutions you have. In fact, never mind the professor's 100 Somalis, I'd say go for TEN THOUSAND (as long as every last tiny clan is represented and appeased). When you're surrounded by dogs it's exteremly foolish to expect your wuduu to remain intact, saaxib. Wax fahan.

Sayid*Somal;787611 wrote: The logical and reasonable expectations that learned individuals are found in each lineage and although they can from different lineages - they are bound by pragmatism and idea that all Somalis can benefit from working together for bettering each other rather than work against each other - by virtue of them been learned rather than merely being from the right clan. Theory, theory saaxib. In practice all that will go out of the window and only the fact that someone is 'reer hebel' is remembered. Likewise, your ten people from SOL idea will not work (well, unless aad dadkan sanamo ka dhigtid). Once it comes to practice and decisions being made I hereby wager that not one single person in SOL or the whole of the horn of african would qualify or maintain any respect. Wax fahan.

I agree with Bashir. Someone should play the pantomime villian and Siilaanyo should never be given a free hand.

Sayid*Somal;787608 wrote: Why would it not be workable saxiib? let me guess; lineage before the learned? EXACTLY. You know it, I know it and the professor knows it. It's a great idea and the one that is morally acceptable but it's not SOMALI and never likely to be implemented in our life times. Marka, again, what hole did Mr Hiil Qaran prick?

^^ What else could it be? They are Somalis, saaxib. They'll pretend to be fighting each other and try to convince the International Community that they are most deserving of help but once they return to the comfort of their own villas, they'll start plotting again and fall out AGAIN, etc, etc, etc...This conference (unless it imposes somthing really crazy on Somalia) is nothing but just another gathering where money will be pledged and solutions suggested, etc....

Sayid*Somal;787604 wrote: well argued nonsense you say? I say the good professor's argument has pricked few holes in your infamous modus operandi motto. Having said that I agree with you on the undeniable fact; London conference will not,can not, result in anything approaching the good professor's eloquent and well argued points of getting Somalis to stand up and dust themselves off. What hole did it prick? I give the professor his dues for putting his argument across in a beautiful and understandable way but in no way do I believe that guff to be pragmatic or workable for Somalia.

^^ War wait and see dee. The last one produced the stitch up that was Sharif's 500+ parliment. This one won't be any different. But I would not worry about Somalia just yet, I'd worry about the people sitting round that table in the picture more.

Carafaat;787239 wrote: Ngonge, the man came with an alternative based on (inclusive)regional representation rather then the 4.5 exclusive clan representation. This is ythe only way we can politicly beat Al Shabaaband at the same time learn from them. You need to a understand South-Somalia politics. In waqooyi it was clearly accepted to have a clan based Parliament till elections, but in Koonfur it should not be all about clan. The man came up with some good workable idea's. Adigu maxaa heysa oo xal ah? Adigu did you post this to invite comment on the subject or to ask for a solution warya? I've given my opinion on the piece and I stand by it. As for solution; I really don't care if it's 'southern' Somalia or northern Somalia, qabiil remains everything and the solution still lies there. People like your beloved professor are just talkers that want to be admired from afar without really coming up with any workable solutions for Somalia. p.s. You and Nassir should not be too condescending, adeer. Was it not South Somalia that produced Aideed and Morgan? Did we not recently cringe when viewing the tribal videos containing one fo the two? Dee naga daaya hadaba and talk sense.

^^ Spurs (that team that claims to be a title contender) came for the draw, saaxib. They had eleven men behind the ball at all times and only had one chance on goal. We tried to play and break them down and the stats prove this. Also, this 'average' Liverpool team has created the most chances in the league, had the most corners, played almost EVERY team in the league off the park in all but three games (Spurs away, City away and Swansea at home). The ball just doesn't want to go into the goal but I'm confident that it soon will. War give us credit and don't be a xaasid like Ayoub, Bob.

Beautifully written and well argued nonsense. Still, he’ll struggle to find 100 Somalis who are respected by everyone else. He’s mad to suggest that, in today’s Somalia, competence should come before lineage. He’s foolish to assume that the London conference will result in anything approaching this fairytale of his. At any rate, Mr Hiil Qaran is no different to any of the many Somali politicians that will attend this conference (sincere and genuine though he seems). He is basically asking that the “International Community” help him impose his vision on Somalia! I can’t imagine Sheikh Sharif or Farole being that far behind when it comes to such a wish (Siilaanyo does not have a vision for Somalia, he just wants to get rid but the demand for help is the same). It says there that he's a fellow. With such argument, he is indeed.

You're right. There aren't any good girls left in the world. Depression shall quickly follow this sick discovery. Find a bridge, HURRY!

Malika;786633 wrote: Lol@Che.. I can see a symptom fitting my friend Ngonge..lool I suffer from no delusions, my love. I think it was Ali who said: " done wrassled with an alligator, I done tussled with a whale, Only last week I murdered a rock, Injured a stone, hospitalized a brick, I'm so mean I make medicine sick". But despite being the greatest, he was a tad delusional when uttering those words (or just a master spin doctor). I, without wishing to include myself in such exalted company, only brag about what I am good at, Malika. And you know I am GOOD, marka maad ii qirtid. p.s. Maaddeey, if you meant the first one for SL then you really can't call that a delusion either. War look at the site and count how many threads are started with the word Somaliland in them in each page (I'd wager it's five per page).

^^ Dee waa sax. Qurba joog (from SL OR Somalia) all love a party.