^^ Take it as a backhanded compliment, woman. Ma in ay ku cawriso baad ka baqaysay? (Morning all. I'm late).

^^ One team, saaxib, one team. I'm not Norf or Bob. As for our team. Dee we beat you three times this season (and twice las season). Even in the FA cup, we battered you and you were lucky to score those two goals against us.

What numbers are you talking here, Carafaat?

AYOUB;734802 wrote: Sorry to bust your bubble but your mini-league this season is with Stoke and Sunderland. You might have been right. But it was Everton & Fulham, not Stoke & Sunderland. We had a strange season. Played well but didn't win. Still, I'm hopeful for next season. Can't wait.

^^ Real Chelsea fans will not talk about 'cunsuri' nonesense when their captain is awaiting a court case. p.s. Some people here claim that you're a City fan now. Ma run ba?

Xaaji Xunjuf;829678 wrote: ^^ He was planning to go to Somalia again via Djibouti do you think you can fool me Was he really? How do YOU know?

^^ Alpha is fine where he is. He offers a different kind of view to that of Jb. Leave him in H town.

Rooxan You don't have to put on the red light Those days are over You don't have to sell your body to the night Rooxan You don't have to wear that dress tonight Walk the streets for money You don't care if it's wrong or if it's right Rooxan You don't have to put on the red light Rooxan You don't have to put on the red light Rooxan put on the red light Rooxan put on the red light Rooxan put on the red light

^^ Err..actually there is.

^^ War inanta daa. If she wants to be old, let her be old. Morning all. Malika, Arabs only mention angels when you arrive as someone else is leaving. They say "when the angels come in, the devil leaves". Ha! I just came in, you left.

^^ :D (has Osman been sacked or does he keep changing hats?).

uchi;829025 wrote: Because most of these "elders" and government officials are all illiterate fools~ We are giving these old men too much credit~ they are honestly only there for a handout, making any hard/final decisions is not in their dna. I understand that and (mostly) agree with it. But is it not a little too late to complain? August of last year should have been the time for all this noise. Complaining today makes Mahiga seem right in his "spoilers" label.

^^ I've seen the one that has been posted on this site but I still have no idea if it's the real one. Regardless, it is not what people are questioning (as far as I can see). They seem to be against the idea itself, saaxib. GT, 2004 waxa ka danbeeyay Roadmap and Garowe principles. All these people had a chance to take part in those discussions and make their feelings clear. (Now Carafaat) Were these people excluded on purpose? Did they offer to take part in the early delebrations or did they just wake up?

^^ True. True. Were the wadaads excluded from the early consultations on this whole thing, and, did they get to have a peek at the current draft yet?

^^ Who, Khadra or SL? I just hope Khadra is not sitting with her friends right now and tittering to herself as she asks them "bridgka Hargaysa cusob Nairobi laga keenay ma argteen? Wuxo qorox iyo dollar badanaa..."

The recent uproar over the Draft Somali Constitution puzzles me! The (alleged) spoilers are coming at it from all directions and with an endless number of contradictory reasons that it is hard to sift through them and work out who is wrong and who is right. First, there are those that oppose it because they deem it needless and believe that the 1960 constitution is sufficient. This group cannot understand the need for a new constitution and believe that the money wasted on such a worthless exercise could have been utilized on better and more important areas. Secondly, there are those that oppose it because they believe it is a constitution that has been forced on Somalia by foreign powers and suspect the existence of hidden agendas and motives. This group sometimes joins the first in demanding the application of the 1960 constitution. Thirdly, there are those that oppose it because they believe not enough people have been consulted and that only six powerful men have run the show so far. They dismiss the constitution as a document that benefits the interests of these men (and their followers) and not Somalis as a whole. Finally, there are those that question it because they heard that it does not fully fit with the trendy federalist system that is all the rage in Somalia these days. They simply demand more attention be given to their federal wishes. Here is what puzzles me about all of this: The idea of a draft constitution began a long time ago and was reinforced in the Kampala Accord, The Roadmap To Transition, The two Garowe Principles and finally approved and confirmed in the London Conference. It was clear from day one that the TFG will supervise, monitor and manage the drafting of the constitution (along with the chosen commission and with the help of the infamous Mahiga). The dates for the presentation of the final draft were agreed almost a year ago and, since the Somali Parliament did vote for the Roadmap, it stands to reason that this same body had endorsed the clause about the constitution (likewise with all the subsequent meetings such as Garowe I&II). The idea of the creation of a constituent assembly was also included in most of these agreements (Kampala, Roadmap, Garowe and London). Now I may have been a tad sketchy with some of these facts but this is what actually happened and it has been almost a year in the making. In fact, even the term “spoiler” was mentioned by Mahiga in one of his previous statements about the Roadmap late last year (as in: he fed that line to Hillary). So, if all these seasoned Somali commentators had read the Kampala Accord, examined the Roadmap and followed the two Garowe conferences, why are they wailing today as if this draft constitution and all the rules accompanying it is something new that has been plucked out of thin air? What changed here? Of course, Mahiga (as he did late last year) is warning all the spoilers and, to be frank, I reckon he has a point. In the early days of the Roadmap, all stakeholders were invited to participate and give their take on things. Likewise, the offer was repeated in the Mogadishu and both Garowe conferences. The vast majority of these seasoned commentators (with the Samatar brothers at their head) could have joined and given their opinions and expertise. They didn’t and rather chose to shout from the sidelines or on newspaper articles. As seen above, they are questioning anything and everything to do with the Roadmap and the draft constitution. But why didn’t they do it back when they had the opportunity? Why start now when the draft is ready and is about to be discussed by those chosen to do so? Where I get more puzzled is with the target for opposition. Surely if you agree with the Roadmap you would agree with all its parts, what is the point of waiting up to this moment in time before causing all this furor and complaining about (what seems) a foregone conclusion? In fact, even if one allows for the fact that the constitution sounds dodgy and that some amendments must be made, what do the “spoilers” offer here? In the stuff I read so far, I have seen some who dismiss the entire Roadmap and want to start a whole new process, I have seen some that want to ditch the federal idea and return to the old system of the republic and even some that want to give the clan system another go. Alas, none of these suggestions are practical if, as I suspect, they all also want the transitional government’s mandate to end by August 2012. Solve this quandary for me please. Tell me what do I not understand here?

^^ Khadra, like the colour her name describes is but a summer dream that will fade with time and distance. But when Khadra fades away, will your recognition of SL go the same way? Glad you enjoyed your trip and are safe back home. Now, ama is wada qaawi ama kobabkan aad marna na tusaysid marna qarinaysid naga daa warya.

N.O.R.F;828941 wrote: Does this vindicate the Samater guy? PL at least chose to issue a letter directly to those forming the new Somalia rather than through the media (a leak is a leak). So, how will the resident PL SOLers react? Not really. The Samatar guy was complaining about outside involvement in the constitution and gave no clear suggestions on what should be done. He actually left it too late to shout "we were not consulted". PL, at least, waited to see the draft and THEN made it's reservations clear. Still, shame they didn't send a 'cc' to the TFG. I can't imagine that side are going to be happy about such a sneaky leak!

Morning all. Carafaat, LOOK! Juxa has ten stars.

Che -Guevara;828916 wrote: Amazing and here you have maryooley deluding themselves into believing Ethiopia is interested in peace and is helping Somalia or recognizing Somaliland. Err..eeen..erm..eeen..but there is no smoking gun in this report..err..eeen..erm..maxaad argtay?..err..erm..een..the report talks about Ethiopia's interest in peace..err..erm..een..erm..maxaad argtay?..err..erm..een..Ethiopia thinks a stable Somalia means peace for Ethiopia..err..erm..een..maxaad argtay?

xiinfaniin;828783 wrote: ^^School girls? that is quite the foodley talk Waad isku dhexyaacday . Waxani waa xaajo rag, maaha sheeko ciyaalkaad soo qori jirtay. Iga baro, Caqliyow Wakaa! Did I not tell you you were limited? What did you contribute to this thread other than endless whimpering and school girl digs about sheeko ciyaalka aan qori jiray? Carabtu waxay ku maahmaahda: li koli jawaadin kabwa (faras walba mar uun ayuu kufa) ee dhulka ka kac oo ciiddan aad baryhaan o dhan nago tufaysay iska jooji. Rise above your limitations, saaxib.

Chimera, the first steps I am talking about are the ones Abu Salman mentions above. The current media publicity is meant to spread a feel good factor to encourage Somalis (and others in the international community) to believe in the project being undertaken. If you look closely, it is all mere spin (good spin nonetheless). At any rate, I do have to confess that I misread your Tokyo & reinvention as a people topics. But you have to cut me some slack here, saaxib. I've seen many well meaning Somalis who live in the clouds and I assumed you may be one of them. Glad to know you're more of a nuune (but without the jinn).

^^ As limited as ever, saaxib. Now you're resorting to the old habit of school girls to form gangs (look at NG, he's a bad bad boy). O yeedh, o yeedh, kolay you're too limited to cope on your own.

nuune;828714 wrote: The largest hotels and resorts in East Africa is owned by Somalis, from Kampala, Dar Es Salaam, to Zanzibar, Arusha, to as far as Lusaka, Nairobi, just shows you how capable Somalis are when they have peace, in a very short time they achieved that, even as little as 2 and 4 years, the largest resort in Tanzania is owned by Somali, built by him, designed by him, financed by him, and he employs more than 10 thousand local people(Tanzania government always thanks him for that). Kampala same story, Nairobi, haba sheegin, even the Luanda Chimera has mentioned is being partly transformed by Somali businessmen, they are even building temporary houses that will be used by foreign workers. I am not saying Ngonge is against my impossible projects, but he yet to tell me a revised version of how long it would take banking system to be established in the country(13 years is too much, I want to hear maximum 6 years). Kala saar, saaxib. Lakshmi Mittal is one of the richest men in the world yet India has appalling levels of poverty. In other words, what individuals do for their own wealth is no reflection on how a country can or will do. I don't have a problem with your vision but I believe your time scale is totally out of synch with reality. As for the banking system, dee if you want a building (like the one in Hargeisa) to refer to as the central bank of Somalia, you can have that in two days never mind two or six years. If you want it to function properly, you might need a slightly longer time. It's not the buildings or names of institutions that matter (Khaatumo has a minister of aviation) it is their ability to function and be fully operational within the periods of time you specify and it is the ability of the central/federal government to run it all smoothly. In a world where the biggest man is Sheikh Hotel, do you really expect such visions to be realised in such a short time? Indhaha fur, saaxib. Choose a realistic time frame.

Adam, I am not sure why you would feel patronized when I refer to you as a young man, twenty five is young, saaxib. It is not an insult or meant as one. It is a fact. Were you the same person at nineteen (for a nineteen year old is a grown man too)? As for the testosterone well it is in clear evidence here. Angola, Rowanda or Outer Mongolia are not the countries we are concerned with here, Somalia is. Now you’ve given me a list of countries interested in bringing Somalia back to its feet and an entire feel-good record of things that promise a rosy future but nothing approaching the dreams you keep sharing with us has or will come of any of it in the immediate future. We were this and we were that tells me nothing. We have the natural resources and are having a couple of shiny glass buildings in the middle of the capital adds nothing. You are talking about a nation here, adeer. You are talking of starving children, displaced people, wicked politicians and a whole load of (now) idle moryaans. To hide your head in the sand and tell me that I am focusing on the negatives is the height of denial, saaxib. These are not just negatives; they are the clear-as-day-light realities. I am aware of the work that the International Community (and Turkey in particular) is undertaking in Somalia. I am aware of the progress being made in that front and I am aware of the potential Somalia has. But, more importantly, I am aware of the tendency of Somalis to exaggerate positives, to never learn their lessons and to become excitable over the first grain of good news they receive. Going by the principle that nothing stays the same way forever, I too believe that Somalia will improve and attain all that you suggest and more. But I am a realist, my friend. And, you, as a Somali Diaspora member should be one too. Before I think of entrepreneurs, brilliant schools and silver spoons I know I have to think of semi-competent politicians, skilled civil servants (not the ten and twenty that came back from the West but several thousand, at a minimum) and simple amenities. Let’s see the politicians deliver that to the long suffering and downtrodden Somalis and then I may entertain your fanciful notions about Somalia turning into another Japan or Angola. It is these simple first steps that are the most important and most difficult to achieve. Once they’re in place, the world is your oyster. p.s. On Islam, maybe you were not here back when I started posting on SOL but if you do a search you will see that I have hounded many an empty head on that topic and exhausted all the possible arguments that I could ever forward. On that issue, there are many who are still happy to don the religious garb and issue their fatwas, I choose to stay out of it for the most part. On the dreams however, I can’t trust any other Somali to tell you things as they are (for most are as idealistic as you are; and yes, that includes those from SL). Now I’ll repeat: dream all you like but FIRST, try and deal with the reality.