On another note, there are few languages I have mastered in this world, and Af-Maay is not one of them my friend. Marka waxaan fahmi karo bal igu taabo. Since Maay is the language spoken by reer Baadhere, I reckon you and I could use it as medium of our communication. p.s. Is Bakar an alias? Come again. haye sheekadii ma bilawdey hadana? Is it one of those times when you close your eyes and start imagining things. Quit watching the space chanel; otherways, your hallucination will deteriorate and start imagining cirfiid or other entities in other dimension.

Originally posted by Nomadic Activist: SOL youngsters? Meaning horn is a old guy I have this weird feeling that he may be bully who used to snatch my jelaato when I was in elementary at Jamaal Cabdinaasir, though I doubted he grew up in Xamar because he sounds like reer koreey. HonAfrique: Redundancy is not something I have enough patience for Seigh ley niegth haatoy, widaayow

Jumatatu Sida aan la socono Soomaaliya waxaa soo maray madaxweyne ka weyn sharciga sidoow rabana yeelo ayadoona la ogyahay kuwa hadda jira in uu ka muwadansanaa kana dal iyo dad jeclaa marka runta laga sheego tarriikhda ma guurtada ah, Waa marka hore, qeexitanka “mawaadinamo†ma mid aan isku si u aragno miyaa, mise waa mid ku salaysan qof waliba aragtidiisa? Walaal, sabato ah waxaa jirta umado aad ubadan oo haysta fikrad aad iyo aad uga gedisan tan aad meesha ku qortey. Waxaa tusaale ah, siduu ula dhaqmey umadaha gobolka koonfureed, asgoo xaqirey xaquuqda ay kulahaayeen wadanka, in marxuumka dadkiisa ay galeen dhul boobsi, mamulka wadanka uu ku koobnaa reera qura. Waxaa hubaal ah in ey jireen dad bada oo kayimid gobolada dhexe oo aqoon mumulnimo, hadana meel sare ka gaarey dowlada uu markaas marxuumka hogaamiyaha u ahaa. Waxaa xaqiiq ahayd iney jireen dad badani oo dakiisa ah oo qori Karin luqada hadana jage sare ka hayey wadanka. Waxyaalo fool xun ayaa jirey hadaa ogtahey, laakiinse ma filayo iney haboon tahay dib u eegida foosha xun ee ka dhacay wadank waqtigii marxuumka. waxaase wax la layaabo ah haddi la yeelaayo madaxweyne si doow doona i yeelaayo wax walbana uu ku fkira iska sameynaayo maxaa loo racadeynaayey madaxweyne Maxamed Siyaad Bare Allaha u naxariistee. Waxaan filayaa maamul xumo, dhacitaanka xoolaha wadanka, iyo mida dadka soomaaliyeed iney kadambeysey racdeyska dawlada Bare. Hadaba haddii aan wax yar soo xusna Tariikhda madaxweynah Soomaaliya xiligaan Cabdulaahi Yuusuf waa nin miltari ah waa nin sodan sano ku jirey xaalada milatari ama dagaal asagoo ahaa xiligaa gudoominimadiisa nin aan jeceleyn in lagula tartami jagadiis gudoomiye nimo cidii hunguri ka soo galana uu qaarijin jirey... Bani aadamka dabiicigisa aya ah in qof waliba uu jeclaan lahaa in taladiisa mooyee midkale aysan jirin. Sida aad ogtahay, majiro qof raba inuu dhiibo xakumad/awood uu leeyahay. Tusaale waxaad uqadaan karnaa dawladaha kadhisan wadamad Africa amba kuwa kale. Sidee baad ku ogaan kartaa in Bare uusan qariijin lahayn walaakiis hadii uu damci lahaa kursigiisa? Ilama aha iney haboon tahay in Yuusuf iyo Bare lays barbardhigo. Sababto ah waqtiga uu xukunka Bare qabsadey waxay ahayd waqti dadka Soomaaliyeed ku jirtey wadan jacayl iyo wax wada qabsi. Sidaas darateed Bare kalama uu san kulmin wax dhibaato ah amaba is hortaag kayimid shacabka soomaliyeed. Hadaan firino shacabka Somalia ee maanta jira, aminitankii, wax wada qaybisigii iyo Somali jecelkii wuu ka sal guurey. Qof waliba waxuu doonaya in uu asaga wax utaliyo, taaso keentey in Yusuf amaba kuwii kahorey ay ku adkaatey iney xasiloonida wadank soo celiyaan. Let's give Yusuf a chance, only then can we assess his aptitude in relation to Bare's.....

HOnAfrique says: This is quit ridiculous now! If we were to re configure Somalis into original lands that predate colonialism, the headache would be greater then trying to reconfigure post-colonial Africa into tribal, ethnic boundaries. According to you, everything is ridicules so long it provokes our half awakened intelligence. The assumption you have is, there are unsuspected minds who are easily pliable to absorb unsubstantiated claim. I have said again and again, don’t underestimate SOL youngsters’ ability to decipher your version of Somali history. This is how your tribilistic version interprates history: Second, Ugaas Maxamuud Qhalib Dhoore will always have a respectable claim to Gedo history. He was essentially the main reason why the British government seceded Jubbaland to the Italians. Treaty, after Treaty did they bestow upon him, all sent back to them ripped in pieces. The British could not manage to enter his territories without suffereing dire repercussions, and as a result they called him the Mad Mullah's Half. Here is a short story about the legendary Ugaas: Whose version of history is this? You Said The first stance was that the land was stolen "post-colonialism" in 69 and 91. That was refuted by the history recorded by impartial colonialists, so now the stance is "pre-colonialism" and individuals wishing us to believe the history recorded by their side is more accurate then the other side. How are you any more different in that regard then say, HornAfrique, who unflinchingly supports his claim I am not dismissing the history of massive migration to Bardheere, Luuq Ganaane…. It is true that there was no such thing as gobolka gedo; it was part of what was then called Alta Juba. It is incontrovertible fact that Bare’ tribe forcefully deprived D&M of their land. If you missed gist of all this, I am contesting the claim made by reer cabuud waaq and gal gaduud to the aformationed lands. Saxib, I ahve all the facts you need, alas it will fall into deaf ears. Salaama

Salaam Wind_talker You said: Interesting. Precisely, who is the original inhabitant? And, if the original inhabitant can't self-govern, doesn't he automatically invite foreigners - and I use the term loosely here - to govern him? Saxiib, There are historically-proven source which predates those that came known to us through colonial period. If you make a little effort, you will discover that what was presented here holds no certitude. Please read the article posted by MMA in the Dood Wadaag thread, though irrelevant to this topic, you will find some answers to your question.

MMA Thanks for the brief historical background of the incident. I have come across several sources, which I think exhibits fairly corresponding element, including the one you have just posted. However, it seems to me that you are somewhat tentative to go length at the fundamental distinction between them. Fair enough, you have been very helpful. "Two great scholars, each of whom came later to be known as Sheikh Al-Islam, Izzuddin ibn Abdul Salan and Ibn Taimiyah are of the view that Abdul Qadir's work was miraculous, but his miracle of miracles was filling the hearts of the despaired and the broken-hearted with faith, hope and enthusiasm. He infused a breath of new life, zeal and self-confidence into countless persons through his power of speech and the spiritual power of his heart. He was, in truth, a blessing for the world of Islam for he renovated and revived the true content of the faith and tapped the sources of moral spiritual strength for a religious renaissance." http://www.ourdialogue.com/a1.htm

Originally posted by Jason: Qanyare got used to the money he robs from the starving poor people and he is ready to lose that anytime soon. These warlords in somalia can be get rid off only by the people they subjugate. Once these people realise these dhiigyacab warlords are no good, they will be gone. How about shooting them? But i have plan: Let's start with your "heros"... before we ran out off bullets, and then we can proceed to the lesser evil ones. How about this plan? it might work

Originally posted by Farxan: Some of the practices in those areas were condtractictory to the preaching of the sayid,thus he may have killed some,including Awies. Macallinka:- Ma Sayidka Kitaabkale oo ka gedisan tii Furqaan (Qur'an) buu watay? Now I am more confused.

MMA What was the doctrinal differences between the two, which caused Sheikh Awies loose his life? Given that they were strong follower of thier respective school of thought, killing the sheikh is still against basic principle of Islam. :confused:

Originally posted by Maakhir: Let's preserve the history. I hope the administration of Jubaland be implemented. We really need another autonomous region to bolster Puntland's sphere of influence, looking at the very far picture and the rival competition that sees an opportunity in our conflict of interest. The word conspiracy, as it relates to your dormant ambition, fits in the context of above quotation: to act in harmony toward our common end, which is expansion and control of land through the extinction of the original inhabitant. Hence this is the sole purpose of building Jubaland administration. This is exactly what I call Jewish conspiracy. I never once expected a muslim person harbour this kind of troubling thought in his/her mind. Again it is immensely essential to employ a holistic approach when one conducts historical, social and political research of the subject of his study. Because the narration he/she leaves us can be very comprehensive, and whenever it is subjected to scrutiny, at leas it paves the way for subsequent investigation. But when we take a hasty glance at past, we became politically and historically stagnant; most of all there arise a social and political crises. For instance most Nomads in this thread fail to present historical facts that transcend colonial period, and, strangely enough, their historical claim has never been documented, except that of which became known to us by European colonies.

Why would Sayidka say: af gaalo ama af muslim ku hadla. I thought he knew southeren people were muslims. Mise luqada aa ka dhigtey gaalo. He was a hero; freedom fighter; a mujaahid who fought against gaalo; and a mad man who carried massive killig agains koonfur people. was he basically the epitome of all ? There are rumours that his soldiers killed Sheikh Awies. :confused:

Maakhir says: dadkan kale ee digil iyo mirifle, magacooda goormaa la aasaasey? waa dad isu tegey horta . The Digil-Rahawiin People (Maay-Speaking) of Somalia Location: The Maay-speaking peoples are found primarily in the Lower Jubba Valley of central Somalia, between the Shabeelle and Jubba Rivers and south of the Jubba River. These are primarily the Digil and Rahawiin peoples. Because their language is called Maay, they are sometimes called the Maay people. Many of the Gosha people also speak Maay language. Since the civil war and aid efforts, Baidhowa is a well-known town of the Digil-Rahawiin. Ajuuran speakers of Northern Somali live to the southwest of the Digil-Rahawiin. However, many different clans and tribes are interspersed in the inter-River area (between the Shabeelle and Jubba Rivers), and to the southwest of the Jubba. History: The Maay speakers (basically Digil and Rahawiin), along with the Jiddu and Tunni (two related peoples speaking languages previously classified as dialects of Maay), are descendants of the earliest wave of Somaloid peoples and also the most southern. Firm evidence for the history of the Somali people dates back to only about 1000 AD (Ahmed, Ali Jimale, Ed. The Invention of Somalia (New Jersey, U.S.A.: The Red Sea Press, Inc. 1995) p. 233-256.) Linguistic, cultural and historical evidence indicates they came originally from the southern highlands of what is now Ethiopia. The Somali are from the same broad group of early Cushitic peoples from which the Rendille came. The Somali-Rendille are one broad group with similar language and culture. This Maay-speaking group came in contact with the northern Bantu peoples the on the coast from Mogadishu south and inland and were an initial cause of migration back south of the Swahili and related peoples. Later the Digil and Rahawiin themselves suffered incursions from northern Somalis and then Oromos, the latter from about 1500. They maintained trading relations with the Arabs, Persians and remaining Swahilis on the coast, though preserving their nomadic cattle herding. There were clashes with the Italians in the colonial period from the late 19th century. Identity: The Digil and Rahawiin are two of the clan federations of the Somali peoples. The Somalis are not a unitary people group, but a grouping of broad clan federation divided by language and by clan conflicts. The Somali group of peoples and languages is very complex and confusing. Many segments of the same clans speak several languages, so clan and language profiles don’t match easily. The Somali group of the Somali-Rendille languages of the Eastern Cushite group includes dozens of clans and sub-clans and separate tribes not in the Somali clan system, and numerous languages, some of which are Garre, Garre-Ajuuraan, Somali, Jiddu, Maay and Borana. Some clans and individuals are bilingual. Language and clan affiliations are maintained separately. The Digil-Rahawiin speak various dialects of what is known as the Maay language. The Jiddu, whose speech is classed as a separate language, are closely related to the Digil and Rahawiin. The Tunni also are an allied clan whose language was previously classified as a Maay dialect and has now been classified as a separate language. Many Gosha peoples also speak Maay, while some Gosha speak Garre (an Oromo language). The Gosha are a mixed group of peoples living in the Lower Jubba Valley, mostly descendants from former Bantu slaves. There are about 2,400 Gosha speaking Maay on the Kenya side of the border. About 20,000 Garre in Kenya also speak Maay. The Leysaan clan of the Somalis also speak Maay and are allied with the Digil-Rahawiin, as is the Daraawe division of the Garre clan. Language: The Maay language is a member of the Eastern Cushite family of languages. Until about 1992, all the Somali family of peoples were listed as one group. More information on the languages led to a reclassification of Maay, Tunni and Jiddu as three separate languages, distinct from Somali. These southern languages retain more of the proto-Somali-Rendille language characteristics than does Northern Somali. The Digil federation clan of Debarre in the Dhiinsoor district speak a very distinctive language called Dabarre. All these peoples, however, speak Maay as a second language. Maay is a language, not a people name. The main speakers of Maay dialects are the Digil and Rahanwiin (Rahawiin or Reewiin) clans of the Somali people. Many of these peoples also speak "standard" Somali, since that is the language used in broadcasts and most publications. The Somali Bible is in standard (Northern) Somali. There is no Bible or any other publication in Maay. Political Situation: Digil and Rahawiin were affected in their social and political character by the Italian colonial administration. There were some violent conflicts as the Italians tried to tighten their control. After the unification of British Somaliland (north) and Italian Somaliland (south), the Digil-Rahawiin were disadvantaged in the leadership positions of the new Somalia. Somali peoples had never before been in any unified political structure. The British had developed a strong infrastructure and educational system, whereas the Italians had done more exploitation than development. The Digil-Rahawiin and allied clans have felt oppressed by the political and military domination of the Northern clans. In the anarchy after the death of Said Barre, the Rahawiin Resistance Army (RRA) has fought a guerrilla war against Farah Aideed. Ahmed Farkeeto PS. this is a abridged work of farkeetro.

Qorshel, I am just in a quest for historical lessons, though i find it very disoppointing. But i am very optimistic that they'll help me gain some understanding in regards to the topic.

HonAfrique- I am very reluctant referring you that avatar. But, nevertheless, it never meant to signify your trait. This what your wrote The Ceel-Waaq problem is complex and was neither forseen nor started by Barre Hiiraale. So u are saying that his people occupied the areas as peacekeepers, and their latent ambition isn’t snatching lands? Good one, sxb. :confused: Those who study the root cause of the problem know…. Again you are politicising the barbaric act and treat as an intricate political situation. it has much to do with parliamentary seats in the Kenyan parliament concerning various Somali clans and Somali-affliated clans and whatever alliance they hold. It also has much to do with current Somali parliamentary dictations and the value of having cradible deegaan in the Somali Republic to be included permenantly in the future convening of the Somali parliament post-transitional era. Then, according to your statements, you are admitting that it is a pretext for engaging war against innocent people and pushing them out of their lands. If you can't understand the importance of my latter sentences, I don't see the need to evaluate. True. I concur with you on this one. I fail to see the need to assess them. Because you constructed some sort of validation in support of immoral conduct. And if you don’t mind me asking, what is the political reason for the presence of Hiiraalaysha in Baardheere, Luuq, and all the other regions? Please do come up another “complex†political shrewdness, because I am beginning to find it very entertaining.

Nomadic Activist says And what proof do you have that "Hiiraale's people" are "claiming" land that doesn't belong to them? I suppose your question does not beg for historical fact, reason being the proof is within the subsequent statement, though your initial intent was to use it as “counter argument†Let me quote it so that you will know where the proof lay. You said: Hiiraale's people" are the ones who live and dominet those places (Celi-waaq and gedo) Now let us define the term domination . Domination according to the dictionary is: a. "Control or power over another or others." b. " The exercise of such control or power." c. " social control by dominating. " It is my conjecture that this term can only be used in relation to causal connection. The cause in this case being the aggressor and the effect is aggressed. So when you say Hiiraale people dominate, it is indicative of injustice and repugnance of the people whom you are so fervently supportive of. As I said in my in earlier post, the truth will always remain sustainable--in spite of--our attempt to suppress it. We make choices at times even if these choices contradic the tenates of truth--Islam. It will always surface, but we choose to stand the opposite side. After being a long time member in SOL, i came to realize that in spite of the degree of certitude and reliability someone els's material carries, every discussion/debate ends up in circle. I believe MMA tried to share his view one this discussion, and the respond he got from HonAfriques was abviously an indicative of the nature of those whose scope are confined to mythology pervaded by their predecessors. PS. above definition is used to support my argument and rather not Condescend anyone. I am the last person to Criticize someone else' writing.

Originally posted by Jason: Waxaas aqligal ma aha saaxib! Beelaha soomaliyeed beel degan dhulkaan ay kasoo faracmeen maba jirto ee waxay wada deganyihiin dhul ay xoog misa si kale(demographics) ku qabsadeen. lol: Sheekadii geela lama kala laha miyaa? Qofkii dhacsada ayaa iska leh :rolleyes: So are you saying that these peopple are morally and religiously corrupted, and they have no respect for humanity, and seizing possession of another muslim and maintain control over them is their means of survival. In other words, what is happening in those regions is justfiable. Jason, this is the implication of your last post.

Jalle HonAfrique says: Plz don't think I overestimated your awood in this topic. If I had known the value of your debate, I would have just brushed off your first scathing post. When did I ever give that impression? I thought I was the pupil, and you were the educator. Akhi, I am just questioning your line of reasoning and historical representation. Do you really expect me to go along with your subjective views and digest them? I am aware the fact that there are some individuals in this thread who share somewhat similar views. And, then, there are those who treat what you have advanced as dim and hazy forms of historical apprehension. So pardon me if I do not subscribe to fallacious narration, which Hiiraale people use as means to distort the history of both the land and its habitant--rightful owners. The inception of my thread had to do with the mission of a doctor in Galgadud, not about the topic on Gedo that you had led it to. This is what you wrote: Dad badan oo kakal imanaya deegaannada ka tirsan gobolka Galgaduud ayaa ku soo qul qulaya degmada Ceel waaq si ay uga faa’iidaystaan hawshaasi indho fiiqida . War ma anaa waalan mise cadan baa laga heesaya Sxb caadi aa tahay aan filaa. unless u are in a denail The rest I gather you are a new college student? I am gonna have to let this one slide. Pardon my nonsense, but there is only one Somali-affiliated group that uses that lahjad. I am guessing you are of the other equation of the two groups that are fighting for Ceel-Waaq? Is that a paranoia, i am sensing? Akhii, i think you have the tendency of projecting your inner reality into others. Or is that another way of diverting the discusion at hand? If so, dambi ma lihid Then, does that mean i have a genuine claim to Ceel Waaq. If so, then why are Hiirraal people claiming the land that never belong to them? Why are they carrying such atrocity against innocent people?

Still, you have not provided any evidence pertaining to your, which I have anticipated from the inception of this thread. To gain clear idea at the outset of the nature of our thread, it is essential to begin with an examination of what you have just postulated by enquiring validity of your source; the intent of writer/narrator; and most of all the state of society that you trying describe. As you know, history is told from manifold of perspectives, and is used to shape the thinking and regulate the life of the intended group/society. Also, must I remind you that the influences that have formed narrator are the same as those which have moulded the events that constitute the matter of his story? By inquiring the intent of the narrative, one may discover that your aim is nothing more than misleading historical presentation to posterity. Taasi waxay iga ahayd in aan ku socono qaabab hostoriga loo qoro, iyadoo la adeegsnayo “xeerar akadeemiga ah. Ma aha wax kasta uqorn amaba usheegno Ugaas hebel baan ka soo wariney. HonAfrique says: Aan ka bilawno boqortoyadii la odhanjiray Ajuuraan. Hadii taariikh dhab ah la eegayo, Ajuuraanki jiri jiray saldhigooda mahayn Qelaafo ama nawaaxigeeda ee waxay ahayd dhulalka ka mid ah gobolada Bay iyo Bakool. Xageed ka soo aroorisey iney Ajuuranku ay saldhigooda ahayd Bay iyio Bakool, cajiib? Dadka ajuuranka ah waxay saldhigoodu ahayd meela badan ay kamid tahay Xamar ilaa iyo jawhar iyo inta dhankaas ka ah. Ajuuranku way yimaaden dhulka Digil iyo Mirfle (Baardheere ilaa bakool) ayogoo kazoo baxsedy dagaaladii ay lagaleen qolooyinka kale. Ma doonayi inaan dadka meel xun uga dhaco laakiin dad badan oo Soomaaliyeed ayaa u haystaan dadka la yidhaa Digle iyo Mirifle inaysan Soomaali asal aheyn oo ay yahiin dad Soomaalized laga dhigay waagii Oromada dhulka laga kacinayay. I believe this requires another thread. Because, you are delving into a different realm, which needs investigative research. Here you are dealing people with different language and culture. Let’s not venture that, for I know that you are going to disappoint me again. Gasaargude waxay kazoo jeedan qowmiyada Digil iyo Mirifle, ayaga ayaana kusoo dejiye dhulka, sida taariikhda runta ah sheegeyso. Laakiinse waad caasideen. Dhulkana waxaa lagu gartaa magacyada ay leeyihiin hadaad dooneyso inaad taariihkdey leeyihiin aad fahantid. Waqti mahayo, waan kuso noqon here-say aad meesha ku haysid mar kale

Originally posted by HornAfrique: Ragii wadanka Boranada ka xoreeyay before " 1900 " (just in case people mis-read this again ) was a date, farcankoodi baa wali dhulkaas dagan. Waa kuwee raga wax xoreeyey, iyo kuwa laga xoreeyey? saxiib, wax gadmaayo suuqa keen. Waxaad tiri: "arka it's a well known fact, that the civil war has given a lot of groups to "claim" land that never belonged to them in the first, so walaalow forgive me if I look at those claims with indifference." Horey baan kuugu sheegey hadad wax fahmeysid: ha dhayarsan caqliga bani adamka! Taariikhdu waa mid aanan badalmeynin. Jalle, Hadey jirto historical fact aad ogtahey, dadka u faa idey.

Originally posted by HornAfrique: quote: Baardhere, Luuq, and the other regions occupied by the invaders, i.e. Hiiraale and those who support him So now Luuq and Baardheere are occupied? By Hiiraale? Shib dheh, a new mode of land grapping ayaabo bilaawday. What other areas do you claim Bakar? It is not my nature to claim what isn’t rightfully mine. It contradicts the conception of what is due from me, and what is due to me, as I relate to my fellow human being. I must warn you not to make the same attempt as those before you. Truth is sustainable. History should aid us to detect analogous elements which can lead to similar occurrence.

Originally posted by HornAfrique: Lol..Ceel-waaq is on the border between Kenya and Gedo, and Cabudwaq is near the border between Ethiopia and Galgadud. So it must be Cabudwaq right? Plato once said: “there is no just political order except one populated just citizens." We are most often occupied with questions—why we are in this prolonged condition—which the answer lays within reach. The difficulty of all these is dishonesty (munafaknimo) imparted in the youngsters by none other than their folks. What has taken place in Ceel Waaq is despicable, but what is more contemptible is the hypocrisy of those who want to justify loathsome conduct by Hiiraale and his people. please don't insult our drop of intellegnece by diverting gruesome reality in Ceel Waaq, Baardhere, Luuq, and the other regions occupied by the invaders, i.e. Hiiraale and those who support him

^^ adigana malagu soo galay? war jacayloo wareer badanidaa. waa kan harsimada ididey oo habenkana gogosha ka hasamiyey tey naftu u hurtey. bal miraha heesta inoo sheega, aan naftu kumaa weliyee.

Macalimuu I every much agree the points u have raised... even the last poster stressed on the same issued. u guys have said the piont i was trying to make.

I think he is another self-glorified dhag cas, who doesn’t give rats *** about atrocity of Iraqis and Muslims in general. The likes of him are the ones spearheading most of the Islamic states. He is another symbolic leader; thus he knows Bush will replace him in heart beat if he denounces the killings….. A. Shalabi, for exapmle, was once an American puppet, and discarded when they finally realized he was no longer use for their politcal objective. Alaawi is aware, i think, devious nature inherited in US foreing policy, thus he care his immediate interest whatever that may be rather than the betterment of the iraqis.

Waa gabay wanaagsan! waxase lgarabey in aad inoo jilcisid kistoo yar iyo inaad usso postgareeysid kistoo kistoo, haddi kale waa lagu wareere. waak kumahatsantyahy gabeyga