Lol, will do. My backage has come back since the snow

Did they use to die in groups before? It is sign of end of time.

Aaaah haada ayan ku fahamey; As in disliked things miyia. I'm off to bed too.

Originally posted by Legend of Zu: quote:Originally posted by *Ibtisam: I don't like them and they are absolutely mad, typical kiligi Muslim, But I would never support banning them. Because they is a harmless way of showing their anger and although I don't agree with, much like other groups it offers a non violent platform. If you ban that platform, it will force this already frustrated and angry young mob to be an easy target for recruitment of violent means to channel their angry. At the moment, their views are not killing or harming anyone. You cannot ban every organisation that does not agree with our mainstream opinions, and if they government takes this road, then it will also have to address the BNP and other mini groups which are as active and vocal as Islam4UK. In any case if they ban the group, the memember will just reform under a different banner. These same members use to be Hizbu Islam and then Al muhajorun, Islam4UK, Al-Ghurabaa and few other names. Unless the source of their angry is addressed and they are reformed individuals banning a name does nothing, tomorrow it will make them more determined and they will be back with another name. The most reasonable thing you have said in your SOL life time LOZ come on man, I've said many good/ reasonable things before on here- the even quoted me on the newspaper

^^^as in extra sunnah? Lool no such thing dude. Arbaciin is on the desk, was trying to find things for lazy- digged out my whole islamic library tonight. Adiguba cheers iyo wax kale

Loool @ qabiil iyo qurunkiisa waxba ka ogeyn When we accept, the we can move on to solutions so maah, haada they are all at deny deny unless only your clan or thoughs can hear you bey joogan. Racist on the weekends only. LOZ, there is no such thing as bad sunnah, it is an oxymoron literally.

^^^Loool @ bad sunnah; you mean bidca KK, where there is smoke there is fire. Some people just take longer than others to say things. Anyway KK kul fitnah ciinda, I blame you, it is all your fault as LOz would say. P.s. ya ku yidi waan saxdey baa.

So after all the outrage,huffing and puffing, the smoke cleared you all agree with me and now each one is fanninin his/her clan. :rolleyes:

The basic: I will use Hijab to mean to "cover", "drape", or "partition"; the KHIMAR for scraf covering the head and the word NIQAB as the veil covering lower face up to the eyes. The Evidence From the QuranIn Surah 24: An-Nur: 30 and 31, modesty FOR Muslim men AND Muslim women: Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for Greater purity for them: And God is Well-acquainted with all that they do. And say to the believing women That they should lower their gaze And guard their modesty: and they should not display beauty and ornaments expect what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that They must draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, or their women, or their slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their ornaments. Okay so what can we take from here: 1. Every believer Must lower their gaze and behave modestly, that is the first rule. 2. Muslim women SHOULD "draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty" except in the presence of their mahram. Note here, that self-conscious exhibition of your beauty is forbidden, but what you wear normally is fine. 3. Although Muslim women may wear ornaments they should not walk in a manner intended to get them attention or make enough noise to make people look up. Also from the Quran: Aya 59 from Sura al-Ahzab: O Prophet! Tell Thy wives And daughters, and the Believing women, that They should cast their Outer garments over Their Persons: That they should be known (As such) and not Molested. The verse is directed to the Prophet's "wives and daughters", but there is a reference also to "the believing women" hence it is generally understood that it applies to all Muslim Women.Let me know if you contest this and I shall expand What can we take from this ayah: 1) Muslim women should wear an outer garment when going out. 2) This is so that we are recognized as "believing" Muslim women and differentiated;-mark of identification. 3) The purpose of the outer garment is so that we are not regarded as a sexual object or subject to attention. This is enhanced by the fact that Old ladies do NOT have to wear the outer garment unless they really want to, although it is recommended even for them; Surah 24: An-Nur, Aya 60: Such elderly women are past the prospect of marriage,-- There is no blame on them, if they lay aside their (outer) garments, provided they make not wanton display of their beauty; but it is best for them to be modest: and Allah is One who sees and knows all things. The Hadith 1) Narrated by Aisha: "Asma bint Abu Bakr entered upon the Apostle of Allah while she was wearing thin clothes. The Apostle of Allah turned his attention from her. He said: ‘O Asma', when a woman reaches the age of menstruation, it does not suit her that she displays her parts of body except this and this,’ and he pointed to her face and hands." (Sunnan Abu Dawud 32:4092) 2) Narrated from Aisha: She mentioned the women of Ansar, praised them and said good words about them. She then said: 'When Surat an-Nur came down, they took the curtains, tore them and made head covers of them.'" 3)Usaamah ibn Zayd said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) gave me a thick Egyptian garment that was one of the gifts given to him by Duhyat al-Kalbi, and I gave it to my wife to wear. He said, ‘Why do I not see you wearing that Egyptian garment?’ I said, ‘I gave it to my wife to wear.’ He said, ‘Tell her to wear a gown underneath it, for I am afraid that it may describe the size of her bones.’” (Narrated by al-Diyaa’ al-Maqdisi in al-Ahaadeeth al-Mukhtaarah, 1/442, and by Ahmad and al-Bayhaqi, with a hasan isnaad). 4)Abu Hurayrah said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed the man who wears women’s clothes, and the woman who wears men’s clothes.” saheeh ahaadeeth But We agreed at your request not to include evidence from the sahaba, even the first generation, so we we can put the second hadith aside and stick to the Quranic verses above and the first, third and fourth Hadith. What did we concluded: 1)Clothing must cover the entire body, with the exception of the face and the hands. With Emphasis on covering the bosoms and not displaying our beauty 2) To wear an outer garment to top of the modest clothing when going out of the house (unless you are old) 3) The attire should not be see through or attract undue attention, and be modest. 4) We should not bang our feet (High heels count in my opinion) but anyway no qub qalax noise to attract people walking around. 5) It should be loose enough so as not to describe the body/ bone. 6) It should not resemble the clothes of men. Do we agree on the basic evidence, if so I will post my analysis, if not please point out what you disagree with.

What you object to and would like to be banned: I say these are legitimate forms of Hijab and would never accept any argument to ban them or "liberate" those who WANT wear it. Islamic dress is one of many rights granted to Islamic women. Modest clothing is worn in obedience to God and has nothing to do with submissiveness to MAN or human.

SalamAlikum; I opened the new thread so you don't get distracted and also because there are so many people arguing about so many different things. So far we agreed: I said: Lazy: Okay. So in your view a head scarf fulfils the religious requirement and we should be allowed that, or at least those who want to wear it SHOULD be able to because it is a religious requirement, however the niqaab and the jalbib/ Burka is extra curriculum and therefore it should be banned- regardless if they wear it because they want to or not. If that is your basic argument, then yes I can answer you and will do so inshallah. In return I want you to consider my answer and then answer what your truly believe, in addition I will only quote you: 1) What Allah Said 2) What the prophet (PBUH) said 3) What the sahaba (1,2, 3 and 4 generations after the prophet said) 4) What is agreed upon by the four major school of thoughts in the Sunni sect 5) And my own analysis I would like you to keep to the same restrictions, I will not accept the arguments of: 1) A Gaal (regardless of how smart or educated) This includes people who use to be Muslim 2) A current shike known as Moderate Muslim 3) A Somali historian who seeks the tradition of Somalis rather than the influence of religion 4) Your opinion remains an analysis- it cannot be fact or masked as holding religious significance (same goes for me) You made the following modification: Yes, exactly, that's the basis of my argument and furthermore, I would love nothing more than to finally put this topic to rest, as long as you limit your quotes to: 1) What Allah Said 2) What the prophet (PBUH) said 5) Your final analysis I expect you to use 1 & 2 as a primary source but only use 3, 4 as a secondary source to help strengthen your interpretation of 1&2 but not as a final verdict of what is deemed admissible. (I only reject 3&4 because interpretations change with time, so what one generation thought of an issue would change based on the circumstances of the said period etc, thats why we can only use legitimate quotes from the Qur'an as a guiding principle and everything else should be considered as a secondary. This is because, an argument can be made that 3&4 looked after the interest of one group more than the other based on the need to limit the movement of the opposite sex) If you agree to above terms, we will have ourselves a good, hearty debate and we will only limit to those terms, nothing more, nothing less... I accept, although I would like to point out that I think you are wrong about what you said of group 3 &4, there are many issues we have no other authority on BUT them; but on this issue sources 1,2 and myself are sufficient. (We'll deal with the side issue another day, another time inshallah.)

^^^Can you do it in a female voice; If you agree I will even give you his number hehe just kidding. I would love to sleep, but I can't, don't feel sleepy but I am tired and brain dead. I might have to start popping some pills if I don't improve. It sucks being awake when you don't need to be awake.

^^^Lool there is always a postive innit Men who beat on women normal making good wife's for other men maad leedhei? 4.14am, why? Are you thinking of prank calling Malika?

That was at the clip; :eek:

The somali dude: Get lost yarow. This is not about you or SOL. In any case, it is not one individual, domestic violence is very common and real; This one just got caught on camera Che :eek:

Shiid I hate guys. Uuuf can you imagine what he does in private, probably uses her as a punching bag or something. P.s. Why did she throw cold water on him. At least ask for black hot tea with lots of sugar or something. Shiid someone women are too kind. Ciil weyna

^^You (those who disagree) do not agree on anything, so what are you going to show her. And if after you show her, she still sticks to her way, you would still subject her to insults and call her names. Maybe you don't do death threats- at least not in the west, but otherwise you are the only smart logical humans- those that have shed the chains of religion that is. :rolleyes: Johnny I will get to you, if I can be bothered, but I'd rather work on lazy; at least me and her have some common grounds. You cannot expect me to argue with you about something that we don't even have foundation to start the argument on.

Lazy: Okay. So in your view a head scarf fulfils the religious requirement and we should be allowed that, or at least those who want to wear it SHOULD be able to because it is a religious requirement, however the niqaab and the jalbib/ Burka is extra curriculum and therefore it should be banned- regardless if they wear it because they want to or not. If that is your basic argument, then yes I can answer you and will do so inshallah. In return I want you to consider my answer and then answer what your truly believe, in addition I will only quote you: 1) What Allah Said 2) What the prophet (PBUH) said 3) What the sahaba (1,2, 3 and 4 generations after the prophet said) 4) What is agreed upon by the four major school of thoughts in the Sunni sect 5) And my own analysis I would like you to keep to the same restrictions, I will not accept the arguments of: 1) A Gaal (regardless of how smart or educated) This includes people who use to be Muslim 2) A current shike known as Moderate Muslim 3) A Somali historian who seeks the tradition of Somalis rather than the influence of religion 4) Your opinion remains an analysis- it cannot be fact or masked as holding religious significance (same goes for me) Lastly my priority is that Islam prevails as a RELIGION (not culture) in the west and that Muslims are proactive in ensuring we get the room to practice and preach. There is no compromise regardless of whether we live in a Muslim country or not, for those of us in the west, it does not mean that we can escape the requirements of Islam- particularly the obligatory parts such as covering (I know you agree that covering is obligatory)and therefore I do not take lightly the issue of banning. Anyother things you won't accept or want me to avoid let me know. If you don't agree with the above or have a problem with it then say so before I get writing. North, Lazy aniga iga haad I think you two spend too much time fighting that neither of you no longer reads what the other writes, therefore debating is useless, neither of you is willing to give the other benefit of doubt or willing to have their views altered.

Layzie; I will responds to all your points later inshallah. But just so we are clear; By Burka you mean: and What form of Hijab if any are you advocating for?? Or do I have start from the basic of what is the religious requirement of covering for a Muslimah.

~^^^Not if you are going anywhere in Asia or Africa. I want something else Well enjoy and have fun in the sun, come back with a tan.

^^^Loool, maybe we should leave it to them for a while, then they will get bored together. when are you off tonight? and are you not going to tell me where u are off to?? How else would I know what present to ask for?

What is with these calcal threads and complains about women these days; Guys it is really simple; you cannot change Women as a whole, so just find ONE that agrees with your twisted logic and can deal with your continuous moaning and calca. Then save the rest of us the lectures. Girls: Keep away from guys like the ones who post these threads is SOL. P.s. Most of them are normal and change the children’s nappies, cook, clean and take off their wife’s shoes and massage her feet in real life, they just like to appear dysfunctional in front of each other. Ninkasta oo adage his wife ba ka adage.

Hello Lazy: I wear a Burka from time to time and inshallah I intend to wear it full time one day. Instead of answering for these so called ignorant, uneducated (not your words, the other guy Cic words) and you implied. So please explain to me why: 1) My personal choice concerns other people or requires their approval. 2) If you want to know why I wear it; ask me or people who wear it in the west full time; Or do you assume they are so stupi*d or uneducated that they cannot answer for themselves? 3) What harm I am causing by wearing it? 4) What is the relevance of banning it? Please remember that I am total against people who are forced to wear it by others. Lastly IF a women wears it and she likes it, but may or may not have religious reasons behind it, do we still have the right to dictate that she cannot wear it, simply because she is not armed with religious quotes. Thanks. P.s. Lazy seems far, but I tent to agree with her on certain issues, however on this issue I feel like it is becoming like Johnny and the issue of GOD.

Just called family back home. Must have been shouting on the phone (somali style Mii maqlisa?) My office door was open and this women who directs people (yes thats her job, she stands there all day 8-5 directing patients and smiling) goes "are you okay Ibtisam?, boyfriend p*iss you off". could not be bothered to explain, so I just said something like that. CL I'm sad to read your tube Romance SPOKE! Shiid why would he do that? I thought we decided he will stay quite.

Ngonge what do you mean; I can bake and cook; I just don't enjoy it as much as faheema. Faheema; don't bake today; I want fresh ones tomorrow.