Somalia;943658 wrote: I know, that's why I said it won't be able to happen unless the population supports it and thus it will have to be demarcated along clan lines, as usual in Somalia, this is no different. That's a reasonable response. I was expecting something like 'You SNMers live only in the triangle'. lol Anyway, as for demarcation I doubt that's gonna happen because Somaliland, for better or worse, is fully in control of these regions.

Oodweyne;943654 wrote: Wadani, Saaxiib, don't give geography lesson to this people. You see they heard Sool and Sanaag and Cayn, and they think it's them who only inhabit those vast Savannah like territories. What they don't know is that bulk of and lives precisely those areas. Hence to them is almost impossible to fathom this reality.. :D lol, ur right. It;s a waste of time. But ones things for sure, the demographics on the ground wont change despite the incessant denial and delusions of these folk.

Somalia;943646 wrote: They won't be able to drill in Sool unless the population supports them. I don't think they will get the support needed, so it will be quite easy to destabilize any project going on, smuggle a few AKs and technicals here and there and BOOM you got yourself nothing mate lool when will u ppl understand, Sool is a shared territory.Look at the block SL 18 again. There are two towns there, Xudun which is a Khaatumo deegaan (SNMers live litarally a stones throw away from there) and Dararwayne which is a SNM deegaan and is even more easterly than Xudun.

Mario B;943598 wrote: Imagine if you weren't a secessionist, Puntlanders weren't stealth secessionist and jubalanders weren't future secessionists, how powerful would the Somali Republic be ?! If Somalis were united and focused their energies outward, there is no doubt that we would be the leading power in Africa.

Nimankan cashar lama ilaawaan ah ha loo qoro si ayna mar dambe u soo hawaysan baddeenan u Rabbi barwaaqada iyo nimcooyinka kala duwan ku galadaystay.

AUN abwaanka.

Mintid what's this meeting in Nairobi u speak of? And what was it's significance?

Illyria;943225 wrote: Any by the way ceelka Caynaba wagii geelayagu u soo aroori jiray, kiinu galbeedka Hudiso ayuu daaqi jiray. but then again, i would not expext you to know that. Nin ku faana dhul waa hore awoowayaashi laga faramaroojiyay waligay ma arag. Adeer wax isula hadh.

STOIC;943046 wrote: Mintid, Wayahaay Macalinka . Seems like you guys thrive on torrent of political venom.Its just leaves a sour taste when all you see is you Notherners just reporting only the bad news.Yes I understand that this is politics sections and all of you guys are trying to score points and freely disparage each other.Well I guess this thread will mark not the end of the "who got the worst news today", but I hope you guys get some sense sometimes and stop grossly exaggerating each others failings and stop proclivity to deliberately reporting bad news.. that all and i hope you guys keep carry on your "adults" competitions... oo markaa aduu maxaad tahay? Don't tell me the little stint ur family did in Kenya, at the most for 2 or 3 generations, has made u think your anything but a Qawdhan?

Safferz;942792 wrote: lol that wasn't my paragraph, that was from the back of the book! I think good writing is simple writing, someone just needs to tell academics that lool true. There are those in the hard sciences that argue that this overly dense and jargon filled writing style is a means of masking the academic fruitlessness of most research in the humaniities/social sciences. They claim that it's an inferiority complex vis-a-vis the 'real' academics that forces social scientists to compensate and to micmic the rigour employed by scientists/mathmeticians in their works. I'm sure ur familiar with the Sokal affair.

Safferz;942767 wrote: No problem Wadani, I'm still reading but that's what I'm getting so far. Theorists are always unnecessarily dense, this was a sentence in a chapter I was reading last week from Homi Bhabha's "The Location of Culture": :mad: lool, the funny thing is I think if embedded in it's original context I'd have an easier time navigating this passage than ur convoluted pre-jilcis paragraph.

Safferz;942732 wrote: "Homo sacer" was a figure in Roman law who was essentially a social and political outcast living in the society, but denied all rights within the political system -- so living a "bare life" in the space between law and life (he calls it the "state of exception"), and their inclusion/exclusion determined by the sovereign state. Agamben is basically arguing that this has been the meaning of sovereignty since ancient times, that life itself is governed ("biopower") and sovereignty is the power to decide who is incorporated into the political body and how ("good life"), and who is excluded and how ("bare life" in the state of exception). Got it. Thanks.

Apophis;942724 wrote: @ Reeyo: but the scripture passage quoted doesn't obligate the man to love all the wives equally ( a pragmatic exclusion in my view) just that he provides for them equally (in the said obligations). It thus appears to me, a man fulfilling all the aforementioned practical needs is within his Islamic rights to marry up to 4. Yes, this is the Ordtodox view on the matter. All others are modernist re-interpretations.

Safferz;942638 wrote: Tonight's reading (revisiting Agamben this week for a paper): The reason it remains merely implicit has to do, according to Agamben, with the way the sacred, or the idea of sacrality, becomes indissociable from the idea of sovereignty.Drawing upon Carl Schmitt's idea of the sovereign's status as the exception to the rules he safeguards, and on anthropological research that reveals the close interlinking of the sacred and the taboo, Agamben defines the sacred person as one who can be killed and yet not sacrificed—a paradox he sees as operative in the status of the modern individual living in a system that exerts control over the collective "naked life" of all individuals. Yara jilci this paragraph.

But Reeyo, what about the trust issue? If we sweep everything udner the rug, the wounds will only continue to rot and fester underneath. But I also see where ur coming from, with the likelihood of Somalis listening attentively to each others narratives about the civil war without it turning violent being next to impossible.

SomaliPhilosopher;942614 wrote: I'd like to see Hassan Sheikh Mohamud march into Hargeisa on foot with a fleet of thousands of she-camels, collected from locals of respective regions, running into city and say "Come on bro lets be friends again" It would make more sense if leaders from the now defunct M.O.D regime presented the people of waqooyi with the camels. Remember, Hassan Sheikh's clan and the SNM clan were in cahoots during the civil war. Contextualize brother, contextualize.

Safferz;942603 wrote: This is why I don't like the suggestion of using Somali customary law, which operates on the basis of group/clan grievance, mediation and compensation. Seems to reinscribe the very seem problems of clan that we're talking about here. I don't think this should be about prosecuting crimes (what the Gacaca system in Rwanda seeks to do), but about opening up a national conversation that will result in the widespread acceptance of everyone's transgressions and hopefully instill faith in the fellow Somali . But that's wat Somali customary law does though. Our traditional Xeer is notorious for seeking compensation (which is an acceptance of transgression on the part of the guilty party) in lieu of prosecution/punishment.

Alpha Blondy;942597 wrote: under the guise of pseudo-intellectualism, this waxaar is posting all sorts. :mad: Safferz broke the very first law of the sacred 48 laws of power 'never outshine the master', and she's now paying the price. Alpha, I know u feel threatened by her, since before she graced this forum u were the resident social commentator on SOL par excellence. But, I believe there is enough intellectual space for both of u to thrive on here.

Haatu;942589 wrote: I think we should bring it down to an individual level if possible. Offenders should seek forgiveness from the victims in person if possible. Which is impossible in the vast majority of cases. This is only possible with the looted property crisis in xamar. How would the MJ's in Mudug confront the men who poisened their wells in the 80's for example? And how would SNM civilians confront those who were indiscriminately shelling and bombing their cities? The people behind such atrocities are faceless, and will never be brought to justice. Their leaders on the other hand....

Alpha, what's wrong bro?

SomaliPhilosopher;942581 wrote: I think an apology in its traditional form should be be done- providing geel to the victims. none of this top down political foreign based reconciliation "techniques" Yes, our traditional system of xaal-marin (compensation) and Mag-dhow (reperations) is very effective in healing wounds. But how would this be possible on such a grand national scale? The logistics of such an undertaking would be a nightmare.

Good thread. The book seems very interesting. I hate the fact that there is so much to read and so little time. How do u choose what to read, and when to read? Both questions present their own challenges and dilemmas. Any advice Safferz? As for me, I'm currently reading Fukyamas 'The Origins of Political Order'.

Safferz;942545 wrote: Rwanda is a bit iffy. They set up the Gacaca courts as a transitional justice system, but I read a paper recently arguing that in practice it's just been a way to throw Hutu people in prison with very little evidence and not allowing them to defend themselves. lol,I had no idea. That's pretty messed up. All I know is the country is now peaceful and has one of the fastest growing economies on the continent. It has also been successful in significantly reducing the rate of HIV infections within the last decade.

Safferz;942537 wrote: I wonder if something modeled after South Africa's truth and reconciliation committees after apartheid could work for us... staged public hearings to bear witness to the various atrocities experienced by Somalis (something that cut across clan and affected everyone in different ways), and grant amnesty to those who publicly admit to their crimes. The emphasis would be national reconciliation and healing by confronting our past, rather than prosecution. Just a thought. Yes, good idea. I think we have a lot to learn from both South Africa and Rwanda.

Haatu;942329 wrote: But that's the question behind this whole argument, just who should give the apology? If we are sincere, all clans will end up both giving and receiving apologies. The exception being the minority groups, whose forgiveness will be sought without any need for reciprocity.