^^^Amin I don’t see any of the TFG supporters showing any sympathy to the innocent people who were slaughtered by Ethiopian and TFG thugs. That alone speaks volume. I remember how much havoc they created on this forum when few Ethiopian and TFG soldiers where dragged through the streets. And now when more than 1000 of their countrymen, women and children have being massacred savagely they remain silent, as if they are laughing, grinning in the dark, with yellowy stained teeth. The enemy is nothing compared to them. May Allah save us from them...

I would go with the Iranian version, but Sunni. Iranians rock By the way welcome to SOL

The Islamic Courts Union (ICU, Somali: Midowga Maxkamadaha Islaamiga, Arabic: اتحاد المحاكم الإسلامية Ittihād al-mahākim al-islāmiyya) was a group of Sharia Courts who united themselves to form a rival administration to the Transitional Federal Government (TFG) of Somalia, with Sharif Sheikh Ahmed as head of the ICU. They are also known as the Joint Islamic Courts, Union of Islamic Courts (UIC), Somalia Islamic Courts Council (SICC)[1] or the Supreme Council of Islamic Courts (SCIC)[2] and Western media often refer to the group as the Somali Islamists. Until the end of 2006, they controlled most of southern Somalia and the vast majority of its population, including most major cities such as Jowhar, Kismayo, Beledweyne, and the capital Mogadishu. Only the arid Northern regions (Puntland, Somaliland), and the furthest interior regions of the south were outside their control. In December 2006, the ICU lost much territory after defeats at the battles of Baidoa, Bandiradley, and Beledweyne, retreating to the capital, Mogadishu. On December 28 they abandoned Mogadishu, leaving the city in chaos while they moved south towards Kismayo, which allowed the TFG and Ethiopian troops to take over the city.[3] After a stand at the Battle of Jilib, the ICU abandoned the city of Kismayo on January 1, 2007. Stripped of almost all their territory, it is speculated the ICU will pursue guerrilla-style warfare against the government.[4] wikipedia

Bashir Goth and Ioan Lewis Journalist and Professor Wednesday, August 30, 2006; 11:00 AM PostGlobal panelist and Somali journalist Bashir Goth and London School of Economics Anthropology Professor Ioan Lewis were online on Wednesday, August 30, at 11AM ET to debate the influence of the Islamic Courts in Somalia. Are they a positive force for peace or the new Taliban? Bashir Goth is a veteran journalist, freelance writer, the first Somali blogger and editor of a leading news website. He is also a regular contributor to major Middle Eastern and African newspapers and online journals. Dr. Ioan Lewis is the Emeritus Professor of Anthropology at the London School of Economics where he wrote prolifically on Somalia. He is the author of Modern History of the Somali: Nation and State in the Horn of Africa among other works. ____________________ Bashir Goth: The Somali Islamic Court's deceptive positive role Compared to the situation that existed before them, one may be tempted to describe the Union of Islamic Courts (UIC) as a positive force. Somali people admire them for defeating the notorious warlords and for restoring a semblance of peace and stability in the capital Mogadishu. But we may remember that Somalia enjoyed peace and stability for many years under the dictatorial regime of Siyad Barre. Peace also prevailed in Afghanistan under Taliban, Cuba, Former Soviet Union, Iraq under Saddam and many other dictatorial states. Therefore, restoring peace and stability by force cannot be taken as a measure for positive change. Indeed, I can say that the UIC will be worse than Taliban and the longer they are allowed to stay in power they more dangerous the situation will grow. _______________________ Ioan Lewis: May I introduce myself as a social anthropologist who has been studying Somali culture and society since the early 1950s. I started my research in Somaliland and moved on to Somalia. I had the privilege of meeting many of the founding members of the modern political movements and became very interested in Somali politics, I was always very interested in the sociology of religion, not as a believer but as someone who studied how religion molded social and political organization. Consequently, I looked particularly at the Sufi brotherhoods and their interaction with Somali society. Of course I was aware of religious developments especially that of Ina 'Abdullah Hassan's Dervish which rejected the Sufi cult of saints such as the Wahabis in Saudi Arabia. This as I understand is the position of the Islamists currently in control of Mogadishu and much of southern Somalia. So we should presumably start from this attempting to understand the beliefs and social program of the Islamic Courts movement. _______________________ Toronto, Ontario, Canada: While the separation of religion and state is popular in the western culture, it is, to different degrees, the norm in most of the Muslim world, i.e. early days of Islam and current Wahabi ideology/governance. Do you think UIC leadership is somehow influenced by the latter (Wahabism), knowing that most of them were trained in the Gulf? Will the Somali culture accept it? Please comment. Bashir Goth: To a great degree most of the top clerics of the Islamic Courts adhere to strict Islamist schools like Wahabism and Salafism. Although Sheikh Sharif Sheikh Ahmed, the moderate face, of the Islamists has denied any knowledge of Wahabism during an interview I conducted with him in early June, it is clear from their actions and statements that the ICU is following the same school of thought as that of Taliban. _______________________ Westchester, NY: The international community seems overly impressed about the ICU's ability to bring law & order to the city of Mogadishu. However, the Somaliland gov't has brought a higher degree of law & order to 'One-third of the former Somalia' for over 10 years, yet is still ignored as an alternative structure for the international authorities to deal with in a formal manner. Why this double-standard? And why is it that only those who engage in active warfare & destabilization seem to get leading Western Powers' attentions? Ioan Lewis: I entirely agree. There are several problems. The so called African union is to a significant extent hostile to what it sees as dismemberment. Those who for their own political motives oppose Somaliland's independence harp hypocritically on this theme. More specifically Egypt which follows an ancient 'Pharaonic' foreign policy of 'protecting the Nile waters' sees a 'united Somalia' as a protection against Ethiopia. Ironically, the residual transitional authority (the TFG) which is devoid of power and has made no contribution to the well fare of the public is now of course in league with Ethiopia which has become its protector! Bashir Goth: I completely agree with Dr. Lewis. But I believe the double standard of the AU is due to the influence of Egypt supported by some Arab countries like Saudi Arabia. Egypt believes that independent Somaliland can leave the Arab fold and establish ties with Israel; hence Israel which already has friendly relations with Ethiopia will have another strong ally in the Horn of Africa, particularly given to the strategic position of Somaliland. The Western position is dominated by Italy which is the former colonizer of Somalia, former Southern Somalia. Italy has made every effort to block Somaliland's efforts to get support from the EU. _______________________ Wheaton, MD: It seems clear that Somalia is moving in the same direction of the Taliban. Aside from Ethiopia, has any other nation been showing a strong concern about this growing fanaticism? Bashir Goth: Mr Wheaton, I think all the non-Muslim countries in the IGAD countries are concerned about the growing influence of Islamist in Somalia. Kenya has already been branded by the paramount leader of the Islamists Sheikh Hassan Awey's as an enemy simply because they are supporting the deployment of peace keeping forces to Somalia. Uganda which has already sent some units to Baidoa,the seat of the TFG Government, has also come under fire from the Islamists. _______________________ Washington/postglobal: There are many questions coming in and not enough time on this forum to answer them all. However, at noon, we will be joined by 8 more Somali writers, politicians and thinkers and they will be online for at least the next hour answering questions here: http://blog.washingtonpost.com/postglobalinbox/ Please feel free to post your questions on that moderated comment thread as well and join the unfolding debate. _______________________ Washington D.C.: To what extent is the Islamic rhetoric put forth by members of the ICU resonating with the Somali people? It seems to me that Islam in Somalia is a veil thinly worn and as such, Islamist ideals are less important than clan, Somali nationalism, and security. Ioan Lewis: Certainly, in the final analysis, clan relationships are more important even than Islam. There is, of course, an intriguing mix of clan and Islamic solidarity in the organization of the Courts Union; as is well known most of the leading Islamist figures belong to a particular segment of the ******. This is the primary basis of their solidarity and social energy. _______________________ Oslo, Norway: Is it true that Saudi Arabia is a strong supporter of the radicals within Somalia? Maybe this issue of Saudi support is where the US should try and deal with the terrorist problem Bashir Goth: I cannot say whether the Saudi government supports the UIC but I know that there is a great popular support and sympathy for the ICU in most of the Arab world. There is no doubt also that they get great financial backing from Arab charity organizations and wealth individuals. Therefore, definitely Saudi Arabia can have a huge influence on the UIC. _______________________ Read on

Duke, you have no shame whatsoever. You have crystallized your qabilism. You can’t see beyond your clannish hatred, that is why you are ****** ******. So spare yourself the embarrassment. By the way you should thank cyber-world for no one real knows you in real life. You truly are pitiful. The whole world sees this invasion as a brutal assault on Somalia, while you see it as a clan assault. [ April 10, 2007, 04:01 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

They are in no trouble. The people I hate the most are the damn supporters. The followers are worse than the leaders themselves, for they feed the brutal leader. I hope they experience the worse death possible.

DUKE is that the best you could do? Forget about the damn president. It reflects on the whole damn murderous regime!

Do the tribalistic Somalis ever become more open-minded after reading an article such as this? When will they realize that we are no longer dwelling in tribal warfare? Did anyone hear about the three cows, and the lion? He sure did eat them all at the end. I am sure you all know how.

The sad part is the people who are clapping for him. And is this what the government is for? Is this the way a man who is part of a government which claims to be an organization which is created to reconcile the Somali clans should be speaking? Allah have mercy on their fragile souls. They are indeed conquered by their hatred. Digibac, libaax is right. Don't be like them.

The sad thing is my people can’t see that there is actually a greater evil. They are all blinded by clannish hatred. Muslims whether black, yellow, white or brown are being thrown in unknown prisons in unknown locations so they could be tortured, their nations are being attacked and puppet regimes are being installed. Well, have a good night nomads. This place is a slap to the face as to what kind of Somalis are out there.

Shelling indiscriminately?????? The Ethiopians were to leave when the first AU peacekeeping troops arrived in Mogadishu, they have and there are more Ethiopians in Mogadishu today. The Ethiopians have no intention of going anywhere. Not to forget that they have triggered this last fight, when they have broked a truce and said they would clean Mogadishu in three days. Well congratulations they have cleaned Mogadishu by killing almost 400 people.

Mystic; So you have a problem with the process by which this government was established, correct? That would mean you were against this government since its inception. Why keep mentioning Ethiopian occupation, Abdullahi Yusuf being a warlord, the role of the Americans etc. like it would change anything? You were against this government since before any leader was picked, so arguing about the governments actions is a moot point. Your speculations are dead wrong. I would have at least had some sympathy and been more understanding had this so called government conducted itself like one. They have shown to be inadequate and cost the lives of more innocent people. Ethiopian occupation is the main problem today, are you sleeping under a rock :confused: We have an Ethiopian occupation, a warlord and the world’s strongest nation directly and indirectly being responsible for the deaths of thousands of Somali people. The actions of this warlord government is more than moot, it should be criticized to the core. You're expecting too much if you think that an actual election would occur after 16 years of not having a government. This is government is a transitional one ; in 2009 elections will take place. So you admit that this government doesn’t represent the people. How wonderful of you to finally admit that. Your argument of Abdullahi Yusuf "thinking" he is the President of Somalia may have had some ground pre ICU-TFG war, but the reality is there's only one power in Somalia at the moment..The TFG led by Abdullahi Yusuf. You mean the Ethiopians? You keep forgetting that the TFG as a whole organization is a puppet regime, all it does is lip-service. When it comes to power, it is the Ethiopians not the TFG which commands respect. It was the ICU-Ethiopian/American then TFG war. Get your facts straight lady. Of course Said Barre was a dictator, did I state otherwise? I was pointing out that Somalia doesn't have a history of governments being voted in by the people. The only government that was "elected" was accused of coming to power via rigged polls. Again, you're expecting too much. So that justifies the validity of this one? Once again you are making assumptions and stating hearsays, which only discredits your distorted argument even further. As for your insults, all I can do is ..Keep them coming. Dear lady, they are not insults. How rude of you to think them as such. Well take care.

All atrocities should be condemned. There is no reason to kill innocent civilians. Thousand of Somalis have perished because of revenge. May all the innocent ones who have died rest in peace. King, there is an atrocity that is taking place today. It is right in front of our face, we could see it with our eyes. Make a difference condemn this one before it is too late.

Taako Health hazard man health hazard. There was a high level of malaria in Southern Somalia, fact. Refusing to take people fleeing from Mogadishu is called discriminating.

Originally posted by Violet: The Ethiopian forces are there to help the TFG forces and since they were invited ( as you put it ) by Abdullahi Yusuf, they can not be an occupying force. No need to justify anything, it's a fact. Help them to kill the people of Somalia? Ooh, yes that is pretty obvious my dear. A warlord who was placed in power by Americans and Ethiopians so he could do lip-service isn’t much of a president. Once again you are unable to grasp the definition of occupation. Ethiopian Military has seized foreign territory illegally. A mere invitation uttered by a man who “thinks” he is a legitimate president doesn’t authorize Ethiopian occupation. I serious doubt you could justify anything. You could barely comprehend the definition of “occupation”. We've had this discussion before, so I'll just quote myself. If being elected by the Somali people is what makes one the President of Somalia, that would disqualify many of our former leaders including the person who held the title the longest; Maxamed Sayid Bare(Aun). President Abdullahi was elected by the Parliament and like it or not, each member of the parliament represents a constituency/riding and they, my friend, represent the Somali people. You can say President Abdullahi isn't your president, but he is the President of Somalia. Said Barre was a dictator genius! No, being elected by the people of Somalia is what makes Somalia a democracy. Was elected by the parliament? Do you speak of the same parliament which was never elected? You have no ground to stand on. No claim to legitimacy. I too have talked about this a long time ago, so let me quote myself: No one elected the Parliament. The People sure didn’t vote for any of the members in the Parliament. So what or rather who gave them the right to elect a warlord among themselves? The parliament wasn’t a representative one, so there is no way it could represent the PEOPLE. Yusuf is no ones president. He is the lowest form on earth. He could crawl back to whatever rock he came out from. I believe President Abdirashid Ali Sharmarke(AUN) was the only elected leader of Somalia and even then people said the polls were rigged..So I guess Somalia has never had a leader then, eh? People say a lot of things. If you can't provide any evidence it is best to remain silence and don’t make hearsays remarks. The only people who are destroying Somalia are those who have been holding the country hostage for the past 16 years. You speak of the warlords which dominate the TFG. The same ones which were supported by America? :confused: Walaaley, why continue to engage me if I'm a brainless/mindless individual? You know the saying.."Don't argue with a fool. The spectators can't tell the difference." Your foolishness is beyond asininity. I have no alternative but to share my knowledge with the ones who lack knowledge the most. You should be thanking me.

Originally posted by Violet: [QB] Mystic; If the Ethiopians were invited by Abdullahi Yusuf, they aren't are 'foreign' military force, they are part of the Somali force. They fought the ICU alongside TFG troops and they are now fighting the 'insurgents' alongside TFG troops. Any battle they engage in is on behalf of the government. We're going in circles here, I've told you before and I'm going to tell you again..Maybe in your little world Abdullahi Yusuf isn't the President of Somalia, but the reality on the ground says otherwise. I support the TFG for qabil-reasons and you supported the ICU and (now) the 'insurgents' for qabil-reason. Fair enough? How could the military of a sovereign country be part of another country? Lord! I am dealing with a mindless individual. While you were trying to justify the illegal occupation you ended-up sounding hollow. Somalia and Ethiopia are two different nations if you have forgot. You have degraded the term “government” by labeling (an unelected) regime which was build to destroy Somalia as a government. Don’t categorize me with you. That is the best insult you have dished out. :eek:

Originally posted by Violet: Mystic; Oh please, Aydiid is as much your uncle is Said Barre is mine. Don't make accusations if you're not ready for the same accusations to be levied against you. You keep repeating the same tried lines; do you ever have anything of substance to say? If Abdullahi Yusuf invited(as you put it) the Ethiopians into Somalia and he is the head of state, how can there be an occupation? Do you ever read what you type? Start making some sense. Bah! Uncle or not, at the end of the day I don’t support the likes of Aided. Because of your clannish mentality, you have failed miserably to distance yourself away from a criminal. Rather shameful, that you chose ignominy to befall you by associating yourself with those known for their flagrant behavior. I am not here to tell you the obvious violet. I expected you to know the definition of occupation. It is when a territory is controlled by foreign military forces. Sorry my dear sister, but Yey is not the head of state. He holds that title thanks to America and Ethiopia, not the people of Somalia.

Originally posted by Violet: Mystic, If blood ties meant anything, I could say your Uncle Aydiid killed more people then my Uncles combined, but I'm not as silly as you are my dear. But wait, I thought Abdullahi Yusuf was a powerless "puppet".. how can he be responsible for what's happening in Mogadishu? Either he calls all the shots and is responsible for what's happening in Mogadishu or he's a mindless puppet who is absolved of all guilt. You can't have it both ways. You see that is the difference between us. Aideed the killer isn’t my uncle. There is no blood tie between us. We are like east and west. Unlike you, I don't support any warlord. You are more incompetent than I thought. Yey, is a puppet that is crystal clear, a puppet who has invited the Ethiopians which are doing the killing and bombardments in Mogadishu today. He is equally responsible for the killing of innocent Somalis. Holding the title as a puppet will not acquit him from the crimes he has committed indirectly! Try to be more persuasive and more argumentative next time. Your uncle’s reputation is on the line

Damnation is upon this warlord government. People thought Bush was a village !d!ot. Yey prove to be a bigger one. They have brought nothing but destruction never seen in 16 years of lawlessness and no government. Is this what you pro-TFG call a government? Some people need to look up the definition of a government.

Originally posted by Violet: What a joke! You are the only joke in here. Your Uncle’s cousin has bombed hargesia and now your Uncle is bombing Mogadishu. Yey’s is missing a liver, you are missing a brain.

Originally posted by General Duke: ^^^Its a fake tape and the fact that all Olol & others have is this is quite amusing. Now he talks about Lower Sahbbele, while he remembers what IndaCade did to Dhoobley. Ormo from Guriceel give it a break. GD you are kidding right? Fake? You have to do better than that GD. Just because you wish it was fake doesn’t make it fake. Yey killed it this time. The man will be of some use if he keeps his mouth shut.

....

LOL, Yey is capable of making his supporters look like a bunch of uninformed people (which they are) but we have to thank Yey for the clarification. He contradicts all the things they preach to us on cyber world. They always try to exploit the Clan card, yet they are the ones supporting a man who is notorious for being a qabilist. :confused:

Lol, the same barriers they had step-up. They are weaker and more ostracized than ever before….Keep living in your little lala land.

That is how you really know that they are losing.