American Dreamers

[N.O.R.F]

the speaches of the Imams are controlled,and is prepared by ministry of religous affairs

Good point. Like the Abu Dhabi Imams who have been told to become IT literate as the Friday sermons will now be emailed to them. But I dont see anything wrong with this as all Friday sermons are of benefit.

 

Anyone?

[5]

Originally posted by underdog:

I think what you're saying is if an Imaam in France was to speak against the Hijab ban, you'd say "I agree with you but I not with you on this. Lets go to an Islamic country so I can vocally be on your side"

 

is that accurate?

No, you missed the point. I already gave you a couple of examples - did you not notice them?

 

The French society does not deem hijab 'unacceptable'. If it did, it would be fully prohibited. Your example is flawed. Can you think of anything else that is obligatory in islam but 'unacceptable' in the West?

[5]

Originally posted by Xanthus:

Nef. I think every Muslim inspires to follow the beloved prophet's (PBUH) example to the fullest (well they should anyway), otherwise why would i bother myself with half hearted attempts in practising? A Muslim spends their whole life trying to better themselves and reach higher stage.

I disagree. I think that's just a bunch of pretty words. What was it that you studied, again? Islamic studies?

 

One should not be afraid of consequence or be apologetic about their believes simply to please others [/QB]

Certainly not when that belief is Islam. It is flawless, perfect and makes absolute sense. To me, at least.

[Khayr]

Originally posted by underdog:

So who gets to decided if an Imaam is good or bad?

The avg. muslim populace decides-that is the democratic ideal. Hey if the audience doesn't like the idea of jihad-delete it from the khutbah. How about paying zakat? Delete that tooo. Pro-Hijab and Niqaab-delete that too out of the friday sermon.

 

The avg. westernized muslim would agree with deleting certain comments that are deem 'anti-liberal' i.e. women and men are not equal, support the Shariah etc...

 

I think what you're saying is if an Imaam in France was to speak against the Hijab ban, you'd say "I agree with you but I not with you on this. Lets go to an Islamic country so I can vocally be on your side"

 

is that accurate?

Spot on! Those are the sentiments of the avg. westernized muslim. "Imam you are right but don't preach that at the sermon. Do it in Syria or a cave in Afghanistan"

[Ibtisam]

Nef:

 

Explain why you disagree? special as you agree with the last comment, if something is perfect, flawless, and makes absolute sense it is only natural to try and keep it at the state, hence the desire to perfect is something that a Muslim who believes this will inspire to nooh? How then is it a bunch or pretty words?

 

Dashid and North, that is a failure and not something you should accept. The Imam should be qualified, and have reached a certain level in order to be an Imam, an institution should then not be dictating what part of Islam he can preach, for Political reasons. That is political correctness gone mad.

[underdog]

Originally posted by Nef.Ari.ous:

 

The French society does not deem hijab 'unacceptable'. If it did, it would be fully prohibited. Your example is flawed. Can you think of anything else that is obligatory in islam but 'unacceptable' in the West?

Is it flawed? really? hmmm, lemme see.... religious symbols prohibited in public schools. But she can wear her hijab after school and at home and on the weekends. wow! you're right, that throws my entire argument out the window. No one in their right mind would have any reason to object to 'No hijabs in public school'.

 

Originally posted by Nef.Ari.ous:

I disagree. I think that's just a bunch of pretty words.

That says it all right there. all just nice sounding words to you. Don't rock the boat, its hard enough to just fit in without having to actually stand for something you claim to believe.

 

“By far the most dangerous foe we have to fight is apathy - indifference from whatever cause, not from a lack of knowledge, but from carelessness, from absorption in other pursuits, from a contempt bred of self satisfaction”

[LayZie G.]

Has this women written any articles on the problems within the Church?

Her editorials cover a wide range of subjects, including religion.

 

When you speak of problems within the church, are you referring to the molestation scandals?

 

Miller has led coverage of numerous health and issues-related cover stories including: “Sex, Shame and the Catholic Church,” (March 4, 2002), “The Bible and the Qur’an,” (Feb. 11, 2002), “Fighting Addiction,” (Feb. 12, 2001), and “God and the Brain,” (May 7, 2001).

I guess that answers your question.

[5]

Originally posted by Xanthus:

Nef:

 

Explain why you disagree? special as you agree with the last comment, if something is perfect, flawless, and makes absolute sense it is only natural to try and keep it at the state, hence the desire to perfect is something that a Muslim who believes this will inspire to nooh? How then is it a bunch or pretty words?

I disagreed with these parts: I think every Muslim inspires to follow ...

 

and

 

otherwise why would i bother myself with half hearted attempts in practising?

 

I thought you sounded very hypocritic, hence my asking of what you studied. What do you study? It's too easy to use saintly sentences and, in fact, not aspire to follow the prophet (sas) because spending time studying politics or economics or any other eartly subject is not aspiring to follow the prophet (sas). No offence intended.

 

Underdog:

 

that throws my entire argument out the window. No one in their right mind would have any reason to object to 'No hijabs in public school'.

Your logic is not something to be proud of. If I say your previous argument was flawed, how does this translate into "no one in their right mind would have any reason to object to 'No hijabs in public school'?" Doesn't "you're argument was flawed" simply mean that your argument was flawed?

Anyway, you may stop the 1920s theatrical sarcasm and answer the question I posed.

[underdog]

The French society does not deem hijab 'unacceptable'. If it did, it would be fully prohibited. Your example is flawed. Can you think of anything else that is obligatory in islam but 'unacceptable' in the West?

you suggested the flaw in my argument to be Hijabs are ok in general society. My comeback was the law refers to hijabs in schools.

 

so my argument still stands. I piece of legislation was passed in France to prohibit a mandatory Islamic practise. Based on your theory, this should mean anyone who wants they're daughter in school and wearing hijab should pack it up and move out of the country.

 

Doesn't "you're argument was flawed" simply mean that your argument was flawed?

yes it does simply mean my argument is flawed if you just said it with no real meaning behind it....Just beautiful words huh?

[5]

Originally posted by underdog:

quote:

The French society does not deem hijab 'unacceptable'. If it did, it would be fully prohibited. Your example is flawed. Can you think of anything else that is obligatory in islam but 'unacceptable' in the West?

you suggested the flaw in my argument to be Hijabs are ok in general society. My comeback was the law refers to hijabs in schools. so my argument still stands. I piece of legislation was passed in France to prohibit a mandatory Islamic practise. Based on your theory, this should mean anyone who wants they're daughter in school and wearing hijab should pack it up and move out of the country.

Hijab, Christian cross and other religious symbols are banned in public schools. This does not mean that the hijab per se is 'unacceptable' in the French society. Nor does clarifying this say anything about how I think the issue should be handled. Is it really that difficult to understand?

 

 

yes it does simply mean my argument is flawed if you just said it with no real meaning behind it....Just beautiful words huh? [/QB]

You are trying to trick me in to believing you are unbelievably and incurably thick. How very naughty of you.

[rudy-Diiriye]

waxa la yiri...af malka amii muufo! i have no idea what it means!! so the does the rednecks who try to speak about islam...!

 

plz, if u dont understand other ppls way of life or your life, listen, learn and then ask questions first...

 

before u release gas outta of goob of yours... deal.

[-Lily-]

I’ve noticed, especially in Europe, this isn’t just an attempt to demonize Islam, there is a Secularist campaign against all religion. Islam just happens to bear the brunt of it because Muslims are so highly visible.

 

Migrating is an option when you can’t adhere to the basic fundementals of your faith.

Even the Quran says that some people will argue on the Day of Judgment ‘we were oppressed and we couldn’t do as we were commanded to do’, and what is Allah’s response to this? ‘Have We not made the earth wide enough for you’? Suggesting they should have migrated from places that oppress them as the Asxaba before them did.

[N.O.R.F]

Xanthus

 

The Imams of the UAE are very well qualified. The ministry of Awqaaf sends emails to Abu Dhabi based Imams containing sermons for Friday prayers. I dont think there is anything wrong with this.

 

LG

 

Thanks for clarifying.

 

As a conclusion, yes there are some good Imams and there are some who need to improve their English/French and actually communicate better with the youths. But since when did a non-Muslim who has never attended a Khutba been someone to take seriously on this issue?

[Ibtisam]

^^^I don't understand, in which case he does not need to be qualified, he just needs to learn how to read. I just don't understand why it is so controlled, and after all that qualifying and education his role is to read e-mails. I wonder do they prepare his other talks and all his dua too, perhaps they give him a book of guidelines of which hadith and verses he can use.

 

If anyone in London watched that documentary "undercover Mosques" you will already know that many things which we as Muslims hear and say are supposedly illegal, and some imams were arrested for it.

 

Lily i was thinking that, the other day, and Islam is the one which is affected the most as it is a complete way of life.

 

Nef: I did and still study Islamic studies, it is a continuous never ending process. But i have also studied other subjects. Islam is not cave religion, it does allow you to function in life and inspire to perfection, so i do not think your point is Valid. In fact it is our duty to seek and learn, both world and the deen. This argument is an old argument which sects such as the Sufi's have used to passive large number of people into doing nothing but rituals. As for my use of "every" okay how about "most" then, even the homeless alcoholic will tell you that one day inshallah i will be a good Muslim.

 

p.s. no offence taken

[5]

Originally posted by Xanthus:

Nef: I did and still study Islamic studies, it is a continuous never ending process. But i have also studied other subjects. Islam is not cave religion, it does allow you to function in life and inspire to perfection, so i do not think your point is Valid. In fact it is our duty to seek and learn, both world and the deen. This argument is an old argument which sects such as the Sufi's have used to passive large number of people into doing nothing but rituals. As for my use of "every" okay how about "most" then, even the homeless alcoholic will tell you that one day inshallah i will be a good Muslim.

 

p.s. no offence taken

You took Islamic studies at university level? Wow you're a great person, manshaAllah . Unfortunately though (as one would understand from reading some of the threads here) most muslims do not adhere to Islam - Somalis in particular. The alcoholic who says he wishes to become a better Muslim is, in my humble opinion, lying. Action speaks louder than a thousand words.