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Kismayo Update

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Carafaat   

N.O.R.F;960980 wrote:
Ah, Bashi welcome back. Apologies, I tend to call a spade a spade. Waa la iska qirtaa saxib
:D

 

Are you talking about the same constitution you didn't think needed discussinglast year?

The same constitution that was stolen in the dark and replaced by another version, according to Faroole. :D

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Baashi   

NORF awoowe I never said or thought the constitution was irrelevant. I read it and understood it pretty well. It just so happen that we interpreted differently and we are not alone in reading it differently.

 

Make no mistake I for one thought one has to go back to the primary document and settle things that way. All my posts reflect that deep held understanding.

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Baashi   

I think I posted on a different thread. I intended to post the below comment in a different thread. Someone please move it to the other thread.

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Abtigiis   

war ileen tan oo kale. War Baashe maxaa ku dhacay? Waxaan moodi jiray inuu Xinn iyo Ngonge fahan dhaamo!

 

Listen ya jamacaa. Re-read what I wrote. I am not saying constitution looma baahna. Ama yaan la aqbalin. I am talking about what constitution means in a more generic terms. I am trying to say it is "consent" that makes a document a constitution. It is not the mere articles written in the document. Whatever you say, if Somalia's Constitution today says "Hargeisa is the second capital of the Somali Republic", and the Hargeisawi's DO NOT CONSENT TO IT, it remains a constitution to those who want to use it, but for Hargeisaawi's it is just a paper! Nothing else! That does not mean it cannot be enforced! It can be enforced. But through brute force only. Now, that said, what I trying to say is that if the parliament meets tomorrow and because of the clan balance decides that the President has the right to nominate Governors, there will be no ambiguity. But if the D-block members reject the decision and withdraw from the Parliament because of pressure from their constituencies, the same Hargeisa scenario will follow. The Government can consider the decision a majority decision and start to enforce it, but if there is no CONSENT from the clan (and this applies for all clans by the way), then they will not see the constitution as a document which they have agreed to. That makes it a paper for them.

 

Marka, Baashe must see the two-fold debate here. One is what constitution is about, the other is whether in the current discussion, people should insist on a particular interpretation of articles of the constitution. I hope Ngonge got me.

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N.O.R.F   

^Interesting. But wasn’t the document consented to through last year’s process? Can one say he consents to it one year and then say he doesn’t consent to it the following year (the same document)?

 

Baashi, after last week the government will feel vindicated in that reconciliation is required. As for the constitution, I fail to see how it can be interpreted any other way other than the process not being followed. Saying that, the government failed to kick start the process (so maybe there was no process to be followed in the first place). From their end the SFG could argue they weren’t given ample time to get organised and pass the required laws through parliament. It’s a quagmire.

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Apophis   

^ You sure do fight tooth and nail for a constitution which, as a secessionist, you utterly reject. Odd folks, the Anti-Jubbaland Cyber Lobbyists (A.J.C.L).

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NGONGE   

A&T,

 

I get you saaxib. I just think you’re poring too closely to the issue to see it for what it is.

The Federal government, PL and all other Somali stakeholders (minus Somaliland) have signed up to this constitution and to the roadmap. They all agreed to adhere to it and were even warned off about “spoiling”. They were all pushed, cajoled and almost forced to toe the line and work towards bringing Somalia back.

 

Still, the process was never straight forward; the constitution, parliament and federal framework were never clarified or set in stone for a reason. The reason was to allow all sides room for manoeuvre and to make the disputes political rather than clannish (even though the clan issue towers above everything else).

 

Hassan Sheikh is being obstinate and refusing to compromise on his interpretation of the constitution or the setting up of federal states. But even that is not a problem had he had something else up his sleeve with which he could pummel his opposition (politically speaking). Alas, as far as we can see, he doesn’t have much other than Barre & Baasto (which is nothing short of a declaration of war and, should it continue in the same vein, would actually break all the rules).

 

The Imam is really not much different to Hassan (well, except in that the Imam shouts his opposition openly whilst Hassan loves to slither about). The Imam’s politics has always been that of confrontation and open defiance (see his “they tampered with the constitution” argument). His politics, outwardly at least, is all about winners and losers. He does not leave any room for compromise nor does he (seem to) care for compromise. As things stand today, he would be the worst alley for Madoobe to have (unless he and his MPs are needed for parliamentary votes).

 

The main player and the key to all this dispute is Madoobe. Mr Islaan wants to keep the seat of power for himself. But, in order for him to keep the seat in a Somali federal government, he needs to outmanoeuvre and outplay everyone else (up to and including the Kenyans themselves). Yet, in order to do that, he also needs to be in full control of Kismaayo! How could he do such a thing when he’s being attacked from all sides by all kinds of opponents (even food items)?

 

Madoobe can’t afford to “take his ball home”, he has to reach out to his opponents within Kismaayo and win them to his side. If he does not, he will lose. Not because Hassan Sheikh is a greater politician than he is, not because the Imam gave him bad advice but because, like Hassan, he was too stubborn to play the politics game.

 

 

The Hargeisa analogy would make sense if Somaliland has signed up to this constitution.

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N.O.R.F   

Apophis;961216 wrote:
^ You sure do fight tooth and nail for a constitution which, as a secessionist, you utterly reject. Odd folks, the Anti-Jubbaland Cyber Lobbyists (A.J.C.L).

It is the 'elephant in the room' you and the others have avoided to discuss (tooth and nail). It is the reason for the disagreements but was the basis for agreement last year when creating the government.

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Apophis   

^The FG and Jubbaland accept the Somali constitution but have an interpretation issue with aspects of the said article. You, on the other hand, reject it wholesale and you see a problem with Jubbalanders. What I'm saying is: if you care about the constitution that much, then at least accept it then your arguments can be taken seriously.

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N.O.R.F   

^Erm, where did I say I reject it? I have repeatedly stated that, subject to interpretation, it could be used to dismantle the Jubbaland process. Give us your interpretation, go on, extend yourself :P

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The Zack   

N.O.R.F;961269 wrote:
^Erm, where did I say I reject it? I have repeatedly stated that, subject to interpretation, it could be used to dismantle the Jubbaland process. Give us your interpretation, go on, extend yourself
:P

You reject it because you support Somaliland's secession dream. Do you not?

That is what Apo is saying. It is like atheist preaching about Shia vs Sunni lol .

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NGONGE   

^^ He's a Somali, Zack. Supporting Somaliland does not stop him from commenting on anything to do with anything in the world (never mind the fiasco next door), wax fahan. :D

 

Horta waliga ma argtay Somali oo leh "maxa iga galay"? We could be talking about the linguistic merits of 17th century poetry of Catalonia and you are bound to get a SOL member (or any Somali for that matter) joining in with Gerard Pique being a proud Catalan and that his football is like poetry in motion.

 

They said Mandella is in hospital, car cid halaga maqlo "maxa iga galay". It'll be more like "Nelson waa nin fiican lakin the South Africans waa dad xun oo Somalida dila".

 

They said Egypt and Ethiopia are arguing over the Nile lakin car qof Somali halaga maqlo "maxa iga galay"; it'll be Carabs waa uuf and Xabashis are bigger uuf.

 

They said the Turks are fighting over a shopping mall and some religious misunderstandings lakin car qof Somali halaga maqlo "maxa iga galay"; it'll be, Erdogan came to Somalia last year and Erdogan will build a similar shopping mall in Bosaaso.

 

Naga daaya dee. Deal with Norf's digs directly and leave out the "maxa kaa galay" nonsense.

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nuune   

Waryaada leave my Norf alone, he is not as dhagax as Ngonge and happens to be in la ugaarsado by The Zack and Apofis

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N.O.R.F   

Should I take that as white flags? Zack and Apo would be terrible at any form of negotiation :D

 

Relax lads. The whole disagreement centres on this and not waxa la yidhi copy and paste threads.

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