Sharia Law, Are we Ready For IT?

[Nur]

Xiin bro

 

Welcome back, your passionate piece was indeed a moving experience for me, I dont know where to start, but start, I shall, inshallah.

 

Bismillah wa bihi nastaciin, Rabbi ishrax lii sadrii, wa yassir lii amrii waxlul cuqdatan min lisaanii yafqahuu qawlii. Amin.

 

Brother, problems are solved when there is a common understanding of its nature, goals and means to put things back on track.

 

Problem deffinition is half the solution, to understand what the problem is begins to understand the purpose of our national existence, because if there is no deffinite purpose for the existence of our nation, then, its not better than the nations before us like Aad and Thaamuud who perished after succumbing to the weight of their sins and arrogance.

 

Interstingly, Qawmu Aad, were the super powers of their time, while Thamuud were a guided Nation by Allah who received Devine guidance ( Sharia) but out of fear of the superpowers ( Jabbaabira) opted to follow the superpowers and disobey their prophets.

 

Allah explains this in Surah Fussilat:

 

As for 'Ad, they were arrogant in the land without right, and they said: "Who is mightier than us in strength?" See they not that Allah, Who created them was mightier in strength than them. And they used to deny Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, revelations, etc.)!

 

16 So We sent upon them furious wind in days of evil omen (for them) that We might give them a taste of disgracing torment in this present worldly life, but surely the torment of the Hereafter will be more disgracing, and they will never be helped.

 

17 And as for Thamud, We showed and made clear to them the Path of Truth (Islamic Monotheism) through Our Messenger, (i.e. showed them the way of success), but they preferred blindness to guidance, so the Sa'iqah (a destructive awful cry, torment, hit, a thunderbolt) of disgracing torment seized them, because of what they used to earn.

 

 

 

The above was setting teh stage for a our discussion of :

 

1. What is the Nature of the Problem at hand?

 

2. What is the ultimate goal to be reached?

 

3. How to get there?

 

4. What is the break down of activities that will lead us to that ultimate goal.

 

 

The Worldview of this discussion:

 

 

Western Civilization is based on quick fixes of problems, not a sustained solutions for the long term. Christianity is a good example of a faith based on the hastily convened conference at Nicea in which Christian sects adopted a quickly proposed consensus of who Allah is, succumbing to the whim of the Pagan Roman King who was the chaiman of the conference, Christians settled an age old monotheist/pagan conflict by a conveneint expedient compromise to on one hand please the Roman King, and on the other, keep the Monotheist faith alive, as a resullt we have today the TRINITY, a concept that baffles the mind of any sane person.

 

1. Allah is one.

2. Allah is yet Three

4. Allah the Father ( Subxaanah, He begets)

5. Allah the Son ( Subxaanah, He is begotten)

6. Allah the Holy Spirit ( Angel Gabriel)

7. But All these spearate Allahs are ONE.

 

Like the 911 lies, when a lie is created, you need more lies to make it work. So, how to explain who Jesus was? Chritians failed to explain, instead the splineterd to hundreds of sects each one happy with its own explanation. Net result being that the common denominator became secularism which comfortably accomodated agnostics, athiests, perverts, and warlords.

 

So in this discussion about the plight of the Somali nation, there ae no quick fixes, we can not cut corners to solve a problem we have with Allah without first understanding and agreeing that we have an approach problem, a strategic problem, and a tactical problem all in one bag.

 

Problems are what we see when we don't know where we are going, challenges, on the other hand, are what face when our eyes are glued on a goal.

 

 

To get back on track, we need to have a look at similar nations in our present dilemma, the Quran presnets the story of the people of Israel. Why has the plight of the Israelites, their divison, their wandering, their tribalism, their killing of each other, their heroism in face of Goliath and their hypocracy is selected as the best case study in the Quran? So that latent nations like us learn a lesson or two from their predicament.

 

When Prphet Moses and his brother Aaron ( Aleyhimaa Salaam) were sent to free the captive people, Descendants of twelve tribes children of Prophet Yaqub ( Jacob/ Israel), and gave them clear mandate empowered with miracles as stamp of approval of Allah's power and authority, to face the most powerful tyrant of their time, Pharaoh, who claimed that there is no authority greater than he is on earth. Allah instructed Moses and Aaron to engage Pharaoh peacefully with kind words, to let the oppressed people of Allah go free, as this approach may soften his response against the impending challenge to his sovereign authority by people he sees as his rightful slaves.

 

Likewise today, Somalis, on the margins of world Media, have a lot to learn from History, and if a dream that has been seen by a chinese Pilgrim during this hajj season is true, Somalia as poor, divided, anarchist and friendless nation it may seem, just like Jews in History, Somalia may be the re-birh place of feared second coming of the Islamic Caliphate.

 

You see, the fear of the rise of Islam is giving sleepless nights to world powers, just like Pharoah of Egypt had sleepless neights when a dream was seen that a great leader of Jews will be born in Egypt to free The Isrealites form the bondage of Pharoah.

 

Somalis may not make good slaves, as they are inherently known to pride themselves from manual work, but the resources burried deep under their feet can either be a curse or a cure, depending on which side they stand on a permanent confict between mankind and his maker, which brings us to the first of the four questions:

 

 

1. What is the Nature of the Problem at hand?

 

The Problem has several contexts:

 

1. Internal Context:

 

a. Purpose For Our National Existense.

 

To find out what is our purpose for existence, we have to answer the folllowing question:

 

What will go wrong in the world if there are no more Somalis?

 

Three possible answers:

 

1. I dont know.

 

2. No Diffenerence, waste all Somalis.

 

3. A Big Loss; Canada, UK and USA Muslims as well all Muslims who live in the Western World will miss the Somali Hijabi Woman's scene, The Somali Salafis spreading Islamic Education, Somali Tablighis going door-2-door like Jehova's witnesses Educating the Western Mind about Tue Islam.

 

The oblivious Somali Refugee, will pick the first answer, the Anarchists, the Tribalists and Warlords and the Oil Companies they represent will pick the second answer, and of course, Islamists will pick the third answer.

 

The oblivious Somali refugees care about food and shelter, their only concern, they will accept any help, even from the devil in any form. Thats why thet have supported Islamists who were attentive to their safety and foods needs as well as that of their kids education.

 

The Anarchists, Tribalists and Warlords, have no purpose other than bargaining for the best money they can make from the mess they ave created, one quick way to make money being distributed by the CIA is by selling their votes for the phoney government at Baidoa, they worship money and power, their allegiance, like the greenback dollar they are after, is flexible.

 

 

The Islamists, have a vision of a purpose for the nations existence, for the past 16 years, they have helped a broken nation function without a government, The Islamists have proven that a nation can govern itself without a formal government, the economic activity of the nation after the collapse of the tyrant Siad government depended on trust, and the Islamists found a new purpsose for existence as treasurers of the nation in the Hawaala business, later, in the Telecoms, Schools, Hospitals.

 

As corrupt politicians, aka warlords representing different pay masters fought over government, as the expressway to quick money, while the Islamists quitely worked with the poor, the disadvantaged and helped Somalia float ashore to safety, when the interest of the warlords was tied to its disintegration of Somalia to pave the way for the American Oil companies imminent takeover of the oil fields they helped discover some 50 years ago.

 

 

This analysis narrows down the discussion on who has the most stake in purpose of our national existence.

 

A. Tribal Evils

B. Abdundance of Resources

C. Corrupt Post Colonial Politics

Unjust Wealth Distribution

C. Emergence of Political Islam

 

You see Somalia had been cooked in low heat by interst groups, Oil men and their local agents, aka Warlords. Ever since Somalia -Ethiopia 1964 war , and the subsequent 1977 war, Ethiopia who enjoys the suppport of the western nations due its Judeo-Christian heritage in a predominantly Muslim region, Ever since, the fate was intimately tied to global interest groups, so, though from the outset anarchy is seen as the culprit, it was a coincidence- by - design.

 

 

2. External Context:

 

a. USA: i. Oil Exploration, ii. Strategic, iii. Containment of Islamic evival aka War-on-Terror

b. Ethiopia: i. Securing the Western Somalia, ii. Access to Indian Ocean, iii. Annexing Somalia to create Greater Ethiopia including Eritrea.

 

 

To Be Continued...................................

 

 

2. What is the ultimate goal to be reached?

 

3. How to get there?

 

4. What is the break down of activities that will lead us to that ultimate goal.

 

 

Problems:

 

 

1. crippling setback that was exacted on Courts movements, the American sponsored invasion in Somalia by our historic enemy.

 

Answer:

 

America itself is looking for a soul, it has lost its moral superiority that used to validate its emperrail aspirations, contrary to your idea, the American supported invasion is a moral victory for Somalia.

 

2. the emergence of Al shabaab militants, and the mass, forced exodus of Mogadishu population.

 

Answer:

 

The Shabab are a youth Allah who believed in their lord, and allah increased them with Iman, please read Surah Kahf to know their nature, unlike the Youth in Al Kahf, these Somali Shabab, the only time they sleep is as shaheeds. They are the hope of the nation, and no one who puts them down can hurt them accodring to the Hadeeth.

 

 

3. we are, or Somalia is, at a historic crossroads.

 

 

Answer: Agreed!

 

 

4. A failed leadership is on the helm of the affairs of every region. Division, separatism, mistrusts between major Somali clans, and lack of adequate awareness are among Somalia’s prevailing realities.

 

 

Answer:

 

Good description of those against Allah's rule on their lives.

 

 

Your Assumptions:

 

1. I feel these problems are insurmountable! Then again I realize there is wisdom in everything that Allah does or devices. And that restores my hope!

 

 

Answer:

 

The wisdom is in this verse: Allah was not about to leave believers mixed up, untested, so that the evil becomes distinct from the good one.

 

 

2. Disagreement is harmful yaa Nur when it relates to doctrinal issues as Qur’an teaches.

 

 

Answer: Disagreemnt on objecive is harmful, on means, its may be resourceful.

 

 

3. But it represents, disagreement does, a sign of divine mercy or opportunity for diversity when it happens in the field of jurisprudence.

 

Answer:

 

That Hadeeth is Mawduuc.

 

 

4. Courts, as they were before the American invasion, are no longer.

 

Answer:

 

Agree

 

 

5. Al shabaabs youths have no solution for our chronic problems.

 

 

Answer:

 

But They have one for the Tigre Ethiopian invaders.

 

 

6. Tfg is a tool whose time has expired: hopeless.

 

Answer: They will be revived by a new breed of yes men.

 

 

7. Other Somali entities outside of the troubled south are politically captive and confined.

 

Answer:

 

Libaaxa Alam tara sooo dhaafyay!

 

 

8. Somali Diaspora->ha sheegin! I call these things facts. They are FACTS yaa Nur.

 

 

Answer:

 

How can you help people who would sell their country to get a green card!

 

 

9. Gone are words/phrases such as government, Jihaad, sovereignty, stability, liberation, etc.

 

Answer:

 

Money, Traibalism, Power, and Xasuuq are in.

 

 

10. ICU did not melt away---they were done away. They did not transform---they were caught of guard and unprepared.

 

Answer:

 

Obviously you dont watch scientific fiction.

 

 

11. Ethiopia is irrelevant (it’s quite relevant in the wider Somali conflict though, mind you)

 

Amswer:

 

For the Christian world, it remains very significant, have you ever heard an ANARCHY AID MUSIC FESTIVAL FOR SOMALIA?

 

 

12.-America, with its large armed fleets on our coasts, and it’s F16 sorts flying overhead in our airspace all organized to protect its hired boys in Xamar, is relevant yaa Nur.

 

 

Answer:

 

Well, Americas relevance kicks in when Allah's relevence is forgotten?

 

 

13. It’s no longer scandal to say the fight in the Bakara market and suuqa xoolaha is analogous to a programmer who labors to fix and debug one line of code, not knowing that the whole program is broken and even if he finally succeeds to compile that portion of the code, the rest will still be remained riddled with bugs---bugs that may perhaps require rewriting the whole thing! Allah will undoubtedly reward good intentions.

 

Amswer:

 

Oh, Xiin, You read my old post, 2002 Bakara visit? I think, it was a sober attempt back then, today, its a whole new ball game.

 

 

14. desperate fighting against a resourceful rival like America truly is ineffectual, and futile.

 

Answer:

 

Should be the othet way around, for every ten dollars a resistance fighter spends, America spends a million dollars, which at the end enriches the Ethipian "Contractors" bosses. but does not win the oil war.

 

 

15. The cost of fighting in Mogadishu proved quite colossal.

 

Answer:

 

For the rich, I guess, the poor have nothing to lose, and no where to go, unless they dig a grave!

 

 

16. Clearly our people got forced to flee. Their properties got destroyed.

 

Answer:

 

Its President A. Yusuf's Ethiopian Policy of Rule or Ruin.

 

 

17. To what end?

 

Peace for all, or peace for None! I guess

 

 

18. To defeat Ethiopia in Xamar? Then what?

 

 

Answer:

 

Then, to set up a national government.

 

 

19. Who’s going to defeat her in Boosaaso?, or Hargeysa if one believes their influence on those areas is more intrenched?

 

Answer:

 

I guess, once the ball start rolling, the momentum will liberate our oppressed brothers in Bosaaso from the bozos loyal to Ethiopia.

 

 

20. Or to defeat America, whose financial and milatery backing is clearly the sole differentiator in this fight?

 

 

Answer:

 

Defeating America has never been a goal for the ICU, or the Shabaab. A Just America is averyone desire.

 

 

22. Is there any consideration given the impact such confrontation bound to have on innocent masses when done in urban areas? Does the cost outweigh the benefit?

 

Answer:

 

Somalis have a choice, to die defending their country against an illegal occupation, by even the UN Charter standard, or to accept to live as slaves to the Tigre. It boils down to a personal choice.

 

23. It’s fair to say, absence of any plans from the powers that be, history will show how ***** and treacherous its leader were in their belief that they could rule Somalia from the top of Ethiopian tanks.

 

Answer:

 

When Somalis realize how bad their leaders sold their soul, only then will the invaders pack and go.

 

 

Your Proposed SOLUTIONS:

 

 

1. Forget about shariicah for now. ( Public Sphere that is, privately, we have to follow)

 

2. Shariicah is a means to please Allah. (It is the ONLY mean)

 

3. It requires stability and security.( Its the other way around, IT CREATES SECURITY AND STABILITY, remember the six months the ICU ruled Mogadishu?, the Civilized world was alarmed at the peace and tranquility of the Sharia's silencing effect!)

 

4. We have none! ( That is why we need Sharia)

 

Goals You Have Indentified:

 

The goal should preserve two things: ( Foremost of which is our Faith which is under attack)

 

 

1. the land and its people---Somalia and Somalis. ( The people come second in importance, Wal Fitnatu ashaddu minal Qatl) + ( Wal aakhiratu Daarul Qaraar)

 

 

2. You can only talk about shariicah if you have a jurisdiction over a country/state and a consenting constituency! You got to work to get those two first yaa Nur! We are war ravaged. ( Only Allah will give you such mandate, not the UN, AU or the EU)

 

 

3. Our best minds are drained and out.( Tell me about it)

 

4. We are invaded by able powers.( I would say, morally disabled powers, if 12 months of no result is accounted for)

 

5. We are no position to regain what we lost by fighting. ( You have never watched a Washington Redskins vs Dallas Cowboys game!)

 

6. The only avenue open for us is to reconcile and seriously attempt to bridge our deference. ( There is no differences, the existence of the TFG means the disappearance of a nation.

 

 

7. Our thinking, financial power must be mobilized toward that end. ( Toward the free and proud Somalia stature, that is)

 

Questions You Have Raised

 

Any parallel between that history and ours yaa Nur?

 

 

T. O ............ B. E .............. .. C. O. N. T. I. N. U. E. D!

 

 

Before I leave this page, let’s underline one thing. Ethiopia is the enemy, and we should strategize and device plans to undermine her in the region. Not because we hate her or despise her, but our interests are genuinely and diametrically opposed!

 

 

Your Conclusion:

 

No Courts alone! No shabaabs alone. No Asmara group alone. No tfg alone. No Somaliland alone. No Puntland alone. Rather the sum of all of these, or perhaps some revision of them, should be the engine to revive Somalia

 

 

Brother Xiin

 

InshAllah, will come back with detailed responses on the above.

 

 

Nur

[xiinfaniin]

Maashaa Allah! As always you are persuasive and unassuming! I think you’ve fairly gotten the gist of my piece. So come back please!

 

 

I have always maintained that Somalis as a people have no doctrinal religious issues! Ours is, and has always been, a crisis of leadership in almost all categories.

 

I just wanted to inject some commonsense into our habitual idealist talk. I am increasingly becoming the black sheep of this whole war. It’s not making any sense to me. I would also appreciate if brother Kashafa weighs in this thread!

 

I am sure some of us are involved in worthy causes; education, sponsoring orphans, digging wells, providing health services to the needy, participating awareness campaigns about AIDS, and other productive efforts. These are agreeable and valuable efforts. But the reality (the need) that necessitated simple individuals to take up these initiatives is more worthy a cause! It’s the collapse of Somali republic a republic that never had a good leader since its inception that emboldened our enemy and encouraged those amongst us with bad impulses to lead! The challenge, as I see it, is to get this shield back so our people can feel secure within their borders…

 

Who can get us that back? I find all the players badly ill equipped for that task! Not because they don’t try. They do. But simply because they lack realistic goals and strategy!

[Mawa]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

 

I am sure some of us are involved in worthy causes; education, sponsoring orphans, digging wells, providing health services to the needy, participating awareness campaigns about AIDS, and other productive efforts. These are agreeable and valuable efforts. But the reality (the need) that necessitated simple individuals to take up these initiatives is more worthy a cause! It’s the collapse of Somali republic a republic that never had a good leader since its inception that emboldened our enemy and encouraged those amongst us with bad impulses to lead! The challenge, as I see it, is to get this shield back so our people can feel secure within their borders…

 

Who can get us that back? I find all the players badly ill equipped for that task! Not because they don’t try. They do. But simply because they lack realistic goals and strategy!

Aboowe forget about other stuff i'm more interested to know those projects that you're involved. tell me more i want to get involve too our people need us more now than ever. A penny spend on a close relative in this case somali is better than that which is send to other muslims. although both cases a reward is guaranteed Insha-Allah.

[Fabregas]

Xiinfaanin, the most important priority of the people in Muqdisho and the sorrounding areas is to ultimately defend themselves, their properties and their deen. Issues of reviving the Somali republic, getting Somaliland and Puntland on board or sitting at grand reconcialition meetings are perhaps somewhat secondary to them. Of course it would be great if all Somalis were united, empowered and financially capable in their stance against the occupation. But if that isn't the case, what to do, xiinow? Essentially there are divergent opinions on the Somalia conflict which see best at work in this forum.

 

The first is that Somali people have a complete right to defend themselves against the aggression posed against them and shall continue to do so long as those aggressors remain on their soil. The second is that the invasion was a blessed day and that the Somalia republic is on its feet, one need not elaborate on that position. The third which comes from our neutral intellectuals is that, " yeah, Somali people have a right to defend to themselves, but first everybody must be united, we must have the financial means and it mustn't be so costly". You ask the third group what is the Solution for the Somalia conflict? Their answer is that SOmalis should reconcile, negotiate/compromise some goals and bring all the Somalia people under a qhudac tree whereby Somalis would reconcile and then it is argued that this would force the occupiers to leave the country altogether, because if Somalis agree then they need not be there. This latter view is probably the most politically correct, neutral, seemingly respectable and possibly the most flawed position one can hold. Whilst the first and second opinion are probably the hardest, bold and most ideological position one can take. If the first opinion is not implemented correctly, then it can have the effect of doing the opposite it sought to achieve, ie to actually enhance the occupation of a particular country. We can see signs of this in some parts of Iraq with the founding of particular ex resistance groups who turned against the Alqaeda or the Islamic State of Iraq, whom it was argued din't choose their targets carefully enough.Meaning the position of the Americans was slightly enhanced.Perhaps there might some concern about this in Somalia with a certain group of armed young men?

 

 

As Nur pointed out in times of crisis and suffering people tend to look for quick solutions, DIY policies and a way of solving the problem without any difficulty, pain and suffering. An example of this is that some people who were against the occupation advocated for Somalis in the opposition to attend the farce of a reconcialition meeting that took place under the watchful eyes of the General Gabre. Whilst others( who were against invasion) claimed that the I.C.U should have negotiated and compromised to the demands of Ethiopia, ie to allow a small presence of troops in that country, abandon some aspects of Shariah and lay down their weapons. This would be the most straightforward and less difficult of positions to take, and the position that would mean the least suffering, displacement and famine for the SOmalia people, although this is all hypothetical.

 

 

The point is that SOmali and all Muslims in general should avoid always trying to take this route, which often seems like the most rationale one take. It's like a prisoner who has a 10 year prison sentence( in a tough jail) and only has 4 years to go, but he tries to escape and then is given another extra 3 years for attempting to escape and injuring a police officer in the process. So if we try to get ourselves out of prison, but we disobey the commands and prohibition of Allah swt, in order to gain some momentary freedom, then Allah swt will impose on us a harsher sentence in this life and the Akhira. Allah swt is not a master we can runaway from and attempt to dissappear from him like the runaway slaves used to do in the Americas. So perhaps it's better to do the labour work which Allah swt has imposed on us? Like the Prophet Yusuf(c.s) did when he was accused of commiting something which he didn't. 33. He said: "O my Lord! the prison is more to my liking than that to which they invite me: Unless Thou turn away their snare from me, I should (in my youthful folly) feel inclined towards them and join the ranks of the ignorant."

 

Nuh(c.s) loved his son like any father would. Thus, he was upset when his his son was drowned in the flood. Nuh wanted his son to live and be saved. But if his son Believed in Allah swt, then Allah swt would have saved him and offered him Jannah aswell. The son of Nuh chose to take the hasty decision, which perhaps seemed the most rationale and logical of that time, but it led to his utter destruction both in the Dunya and Akhira.

 

 

Unity isn't strenghtened by numbers and weapons. But it is strenghtened by repenting to Allah swt, fearing him and distancing ourselves from any group of people that openly reject the laws of Allah swt. It is the Sunnah of Allah swt that whenever he tested a group of believers, he always sent against them the superpowers and great chieftans of the time. David(Daud) took on Goliath(jalut); Muhamad(saw) took on the Quraish and his followes took on the Persians and Romans; Issa(c.s) took on the Romans and the Zionists; Musa took on the might and power of the Pharoah; and Ibrahim took his nation/family of Idolaters.

 

 

 

 

Therefore, they were outnumbered, ouresourced and almost always their own clans, families and nations mocked them for what they sought to achieve.

 

 

In my opinion it is better to a have a small family of righteous believers, then a whole family of strong and united people who include those that rejected the law of Allah swt and openly supported/aided those that fought against his law. Nevertheless, I don't buy the opinion that says the people who are resisting in Somali consist of one clan and the rest of Somalis are oblivious to their suffering. My estimation says that majority of Puntlanders and Somalilanders are against the occupation.I question the methods and means they are using to get rid of the occupiers, but I never question the purpose of what they are doing, because there is frankly no other way to get rid of an ocuppier other then the way he got there in the first place. Somalis have only been occupied only for a year and they have moved swiftly, decisively and inflicted losses on their occupiers then many others nations that were occupied. Although one could say the occupiers are a bunch of poor mecenaries, they are relatively defeated in Muqdisho and inshallah soon in the sorrounding areas. But it could be Allah swt strenghtens them again against the SOmalis, in order to make people return to their deen, repent and test their Iman. In other words, Somalia could be under the grip of larger foreign powers for a long time to come. Everything I have said correct is from Allah and every error I have made is from myself, Allahuma-masali cala Muhamad. Allahuma-Cizal Islama Wal Muslimeen, Ameen:

 

It was revealed to Nuh: 'None of your people are going to believe except for those who already believe, so do not be distressed at what they do. Build the Ark under Our supervision and as We reveal and do not address Me concerning the wrongdoers. They shall be drowned.' He began to build the Ark and every time some nobles of his people passed him by, they ridiculed him. He said, 'Though you ridicule us now, we will certainly ridicule you as you do us. You will soon know who will receive a punishment which disgraces him and find unleashed against himself an everlasting punishment.' So when Our command came, and water bubbled up from the earth, We said, 'Load into it a pair of every species, and your family-except for those against whom the Word was preordained-and all who believe.' But those who believed with him were only few. He said, 'Embark in it. In the name of Allah be its voyage and its landing! Truly my Lord is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful.' It sailed with them through mountainous waves, and Nuh called out to his son, who had kept himself apart, 'My son! Come on board with us. Do not stay with the disbelievers!' He said, 'I will take refuge on a mountain; It will protect me from the flood.' He said, 'There is no protection from Allah's command today except for those He has mercy on.' The waves surged in between them and he was among the drowned. It was said, 'Earth, swallow up your water!' and, 'Heaven, hold back your rain!' And the water subsided and the affair was concluded and the Ark came to land on al-Judi. And it was said, 'Away with the people of the wrongdoers!' Nuh called out to his Lord and said, 'My Lord, my son is one of my family and Your promise is surely the truth and You are the Justest of Judges.' He said, 'Nuh, he is definitely not of your family. He is someone whose action was not righteous. Do not, therefore, ask Me for something about which you have no knowledge. I admonish you lest you should be among the ignorant.' He said, 'My Lord, I seek refuge with You from asking You for anything about which I have no knowledge. If You do not forgive me and have mercy on me, I will be among the lost.' It was said, 'Nuh, descend with peace from Us and with blessings on you and on the nations which will issue from those who are with you. But there are nations to whom we will give enjoyment and then a painful punishment from Us will afflict them.' That is some of the news of the Unseen which We reveal to you. Neither you nor your people knew it before this time. So be steadfast. The best end result is for those who guard against evil. (11:25-49)

[Naxar Nugaaleed]

i will impose Sharia on my self, those fake wadaads should do the same.

[xiinfaniin]

Disclaimer: one cant participate in this brainstorming session under the influence of Xammaasad.

 

Bro Nur,

 

I missed your interjectory statements, or answers as you called them, in my piece! I was waiting practical answers from you yaa sheekhii! It’s very hard to infer a comprehensive position from what you wrote, brother!

 

Let me formulate this in a beneficial way. Do you agree with the following statements?

1- The long-term goal is a shariicah complaint state in Somalia.

2- The short-term goal is to get rid off or minimize foreign influence and occupation in our country, and facilitate reconciliation and achieve consensus.

 

The means to achieve the second goal, which is first in Somalia’s priority, could be following.

1- fight to push back the enemy and its local allies; the al shabaab strategy and Sayid Mohamed strategy.

2- - prepare for a long fight but in the meantime and with realization of the lack of isticdaad from your part inter a truce with the enemy and save your people.

Take it from there yaa Nur!

 

 

Bro Geeljire, I like the use of Somali people in your analysis. If truth were to be told Somali people are divided on this. The majority of them seem to be weak and passive. Few are putting a fight against Ethiopians and their allies. Fighting for the sake of fighting is no good. Unless you think strategy and planning are terms exclusive for dabo-dhilifs I demand you articulate both when you take the position of war is the only option before us! Then we can talk further.

[stoit]

I can only speak of my opinions and since this thread is asking wheather sharia should govern my and my beloved in the future ,i am forced to express my views and objections to it. My understanding of sharia is not from study but mostly from observations and hearsay.

 

I have to state firstly that although anyone can force another to do things against their wishes ,past experience has vividly demonstrated to us that it is neither just nor wise to do so.

 

I strongly think beliefs are personal issues and that the best way to live, for all that must share space and services is for all to respect each others ownership of their self. All else is subject to aggreaments of laws ,rules and contracts.

 

I do not believe in punitive justice ,i think one must restore what one can and what one cannot to be forgiven and punishment as an example i think is absolutely wrong.

 

It seems very strange to me that we can demand to force people to act in ways that are contrary to their wishes and believes and when that creates unbearable situations back in our home lands, we are willing to live right next to people that do all that we were not willing to let our brothers and sisters do or decide for themselves and we do that gladly.

 

What more can a believer want than to be left alone and in peace to do what his LORD has commanded him to do .Why must he force everyone else despite others willingness to let them live as they wish.

 

I am a somali just like you and a believer in GOD just like you but there is no denying that ALLAH swt has granted me the freedom to choose so must you. You can preech to me of which again i will retain the right to listen or not.

[Biixi]

Based on my recent trip to Somalia, Somalis are ready for an Islamic government.

Such government will get the full Somali support, when the deeds of its leader and those that support him are in accordance with Islam.

[xiinfaniin]

Aduun iyo aakhiro, what's up with this forcing thing you're emphasizing ? Shariicah has nothing to do with force!

[Fabregas]

Xiinfaanin, I don't think strategy and planning are terms for dhabodhilifs or..... In fact Islam has placed a great emphasis on this matter. Somalis have been recorded as being warrior like people and good fighters since the time of Ahmad Gurey. Give them a little unity, discipline and of course most importantly fear of Allah swt and they would probably be the rulers and leaders of the Horn Africa. Of course that is a long shot away and the discussion today is that the future of the Somali race is at stake. There are three options available(as I see them):

 

1. Live under the grip of Ethiopia today and for centuries to come. Thus making it possible that Somalis became stateless and under the control of whoever is in power in Adiss Ababa like the Oromo people. I'm a sure no SOmali would want to entertain that idea. Even those who support the current occupation are under the false impression that the T.F.G boys are free to make their own decisions and the Tigray influence will be long gone once the T.F.G is set up and running.

 

 

2. The second option is for the Somalis living in that particular area to strive in the path of Allah swt as he ordained for them to against those that drove from their properties, land and killed their brethren. Now we can discuss the way that policy is been handled. For example, are Somalis united enough to take such a stance? Do the consquences ie loss of Somali life outweigh the good that this will achieve in the long run? Are Alshabab who's leaders publicly distanced himself from the bulk of the Islamic Courts and linked himself with Osama Bin Laden a hinderance or good outlet in this struggle? Does it help Somalis for this group to link itself with groups that publicly claim the killing of innoncent American citizens around the globe? Is the the struggle one without any purpose?

 

Those are legitimate questions to be asked by all Somalis, including those of us whom are comfortably typing away on Internet forums . Those are the two options that I see, of course there will be areas of grey and those two options can have variances according to the development of the situation in Somalia. However, what I take issue with and I am still not convinced about is the middle path or the so called Dariqa dhexe, which is championed by various SOmali intellectuals on the internet news outlets and even on this forum. Perhaps you might not be a good indicator of this view. I see you leaning towards the first option slightly but with deep reservations and concerns regarding the purpose,planning, and organisation of any such struggle?Anyway their argument goes:

 

1. Resistance or local struggles against the unrelenting onslaught on Somalia is not the way forward. This because Somalis are disunited, have lack of support from international community and in the end run it will create a humanatarian disaster so to speak. However, if such conditions arise, ie Somalis are united, reconciled, united and politically backed they claim they will be the first to support any such struggle. Therefore, the logic that follows from this is that:

 

 

2. The most important issue for Somalia and solution for Somalia and Somalis is sit under a tree, reconcile and set their differences aside. Which means that the presence of foreign troops will not be needed in Somalia and either this process can totally remove foreign occupation or at least limit the influence they have in Somalia, whereby this at least reduces the amount of suffering and pain that is occuring against Somalis in that particular region. Lastly:

 

3. I.C.U should compromise and negotiate with the T.F.G and Ethiopians, in order to again limit the damage inflicted against their the people. We can use the example of the Prophet Muhammad saw compromosing and negotiating with Quraish at the treaty of Hudaybiyah.

 

I think this idea is nice, articulate and intellectually well tbough out. However, I am deeply Skeptical about this stance for several reasons. Firstly, it ignores the reality that is in Somalia right know. Somalia or at least the Southern portion of it is under a brutal occupation by a gang led by a neighbouring dictator and a pack of hyenas and moryaans who arm checkpoints whilst making money from robbing and taxing poor Somalis. Thousands of Somalis have been displaced from their homes, killed and imprisoned. Almost every human right has been thrown of out the window. Should the most important issue in Somalia not be how these people shoud defend themselves or and how other in the diaspora can speak out on their behalf against the abuses committed against them? Rather then organizing lavish meetings between various Somalis political movements and attempting to unite Somalis for the hundredth time? Why focus on getting Somaliland and others on board when the very existence and political direction of the Somali capital and it's neighbouring inhabitants are in danger?

 

 

Also this stance does not fully account for the nature of the political players in Somalia. On the one hand we have Ethiopian and Somali warlords and on the other hand we have a some hothead zealot youths( Al shabaab), clan fighters and the slightly more moderate( open to compromise) members of the entity known as the Islamic Courts Union.

 

 

With particular reference to former group, how do we know they will be sincere when they sit at a qhudac tree with other Somali groups? How do know the T.F.G will not attend and is free from a list of demands dictated and written in Adiss Ababa? In other words, isn't the best way of forcing Somalis to abandon constantly seeking protection from Ethiopia actually brutally resisting against those occupation troops? Therefore, the results of this will be (a) to severly limit the designs and intentions that the Ethiopians might have had for Somalia and also reducing the list of dictates and dreams that are sent to them from Adiss Ababa. Why sit at a qhudac tree with Colonel Qeybdiid with his list of demands? When you can strike at and strive against his backers/protectors, meaning if ever comes to any Qhudac tree, He will say forgive me or he will run and hide across the border. Has any occupation force ever been removed or severely limited by negotiating with the colloborators who implement the policy of the occupier?

 

Lastly, the fact that some Somalis and some political regions are not striving/supporting with their brothers and sisters is not something to be surprised at. It shouldn't also be a condition( ie Somalis should be united), in order to engage in any struggle, although it would help immensely. Humans being by their nature want peace and security, they hate things which will harm their properties, wealths and blood. So it is natural some clan elders, regions and perhaps even entire groups of people would seek to live in friendliness or even under the grip of Ethiopian influence in return for a little bit of peace and for the Ethiopian dictator to point his guns at another region/clan.

 

We find the in the Quran that only a small band of Bani Israel struggled in the path of Allah swt and the rest didn't even though they oppressed and Allah swt commanded them to do so. So what do you expect of the clan chiefs and leaders of Somali regions that are actually living in peace and under no direct threat? Allah swt said:

 

 

246. Hast thou not Turned thy vision to the Chiefs of the Children of Israel after (the time of) Moses? they said to a prophet (That was) among them: "Appoint for us a king, that we May fight in the cause of Allah." He said: " Is it not possible, if ye were commanded to fight, that that ye will not fight?" They said: " How could we refuse to fight in the cause of Allah, seeing that we were turned out of our homes and our families ?" but when they were commanded to fight, they turned back, except a small band among them . But Allah Has full knowledge of those who do wrong.

 

 

So, Xiinow, if war( resistance) is not the only option and Ethiopian occupation is clearly not a way, then what is the middle and is there really a middle way? If there is how will it work and who will enforce it. Which is more important self defence or attempting to reconcile/unite Somalis? Identifying problems and criticising the approach of the Islamic Courts is an easy thing but it is hard to bring another viable solution that works.

 

Nur, apologies for going away from your shariah discussion..........

[stoit]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

Aduun iyo aakhiro, what's up with this forcing thing you're emphasizing ? Shariicah has nothing to do with force!

I am sorry saxiib i know i am hasty and i really need to take some time and read everything first before replying.

 

I thought sharia was what the saudis practice where those that dont pray get lashed ,those that fornicate get stoned and so on.

 

If that is then what it is how is it then not force unless you can guarantee that each will infact subscribe to that willingly.

[stoit]

Dear xiinfaniin i only contributed my opinions because of the tittle "is somalia ready for sharia"

 

If this was a only a religious topic i wouldnt have contributed opinions and would probably have stayed away since i know not much about sharia walaal.

 

But i ask you for cafis again should i have offended you. Come to think of it i sounded a bit harsh and so appologies to all those that must read my comment.

[ElPunto]

Nope. Somalis need many years of Islamic re-education camps before this is implemented.

[Nur]

Adduun & Akhiro

 

Walaal, I thank you for your well structured statements. Live is a journey in which we continousely grow and learn, our time is limited though, thus the importance to focus learning what matters most, our Akhiro as your screen name depicts.

 

You have not offended anyone here, this is an open forum, we are all here to learn from the discussion, no one has a monopoly for being right always, its participation like yours that helps many quiet browsers learn from the debate.

 

 

Nur

[Nur]

Xiin bro.

 

I have added more content on the body of my response to your post, if you didn't have a chance, read it again.

 

InshAllah will address your advice on what to address later inshAllah. Come again

 

 

Nur