xiinfaniin Posted July 5, 2006 This is a very useful discussion indeed. I hope the original poster benefited from it and any confusion she might had cleared. JB, how did you fail to use scarecrow argument as a rhetorical technique? It didn’t stick adeer . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johnny B Posted July 5, 2006 Xiin, Atheer, would it be fair to say ,Nothing sticks your pinata argument ? no? :cool: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Socod_badne Posted July 5, 2006 Originally posted by Viking: Socod_badne, Allah SWT knowing about your destiny doesn't mean that He has chosen it for you. How so? Could you give examples or maybe expand on what you mean? You see, I'm saying omniscient creator like Allah who creates us out of his own free will does choose our destiny. For our destiny can never ever be different from what Allah knew BEFORE he chose to create us. I noticed you didn't touch on the shabby syllogism I constructed in my last post. If you could do so it be would be great aid in making this discussion fruitful. What you are doing here in your deduction is that you are anthropomorphizing Allah. He doesn't change His mind, make mistakes or act unjustly, these are human characteristics. But I haven't said any of that neither did I anthropomorphize Allah -- a strange accusation. All I said was free will (in it's conventional undertanding) obviates some of Allah's attributes like omniscience. Do you disagree? If so, please tell us why. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Che -Guevara Posted July 5, 2006 Maybe there is just two predetermind parallel paths ( one good and one bad) that Allah chooses for each one of us. The free will is simply having the ability to recognize, differentiate and choose between these paths.So, regardless what path you choose, God already knows your past, present, and future. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking Posted July 5, 2006 Originally posted by Socod_badne: How so? Could you give examples or maybe expand on what you mean? You see, I'm saying omniscient creator like Allah who creates us out of his own free will does choose our destiny. For our destiny can never ever be different from what Allah knew BEFORE he chose to create us. I gave the a simple analogy earlier when I said... Allah's SWT knowledge of future events does not necessarily mean that [His Knowledge] causes it to happen. If you [for example] know that the children of the school near you go to lunch at noon, that doesn't mean that your knowledge (or expectation) makes them go for lunch at noon. Allah SWT knows what YOU will do out of YOUR OWN FREE-WILL. How about you answer a few questions for a change sxb. You said that ALlah "does choose our destiny"; this would be saying that He is unjust because we are not responsible for our actions because, as you said, He "chose our destiny". Now, how do you reconcile this line of thinking with your faith? You obviously aren't asking to find out but arguing a position and it would be interesting to know how you reconcile this stand with Islam. Am not a philosopher so I hope you aren't disappoined by the way I approach your syllogism... 1. Allah is omnisceint (all-knowing), is free to create who ever he likes and can not make mistakes. - True 2. Because he is omniscient, before he creates us he knows our ultimate fate: hell or heaven. - True! But this is where you seem to get lost. His knowledge of what choices we will make in our lives doesn't mean that He has chosen the paths we will take. 3. His creation can not alter their ultimate fate that Allah was already privy to as that would negate his omniscience. -True. But we don't know what is in the future so grinding over this issue is futile (Prophets are usually given some access to this domain and sometimes the average person can get a glimpse of future events through dreams or visions). We are created with an intellect and ability to decide our destiny; so as far as we are concerned, we are the masters of our destiny and Allah's knowledge about it does in no way shape our choices. Our belief in the fact that Allah is Omniscient gives us a certain level of peace in our hearts because he has access to our inner beings, access to matters we don't make manifest. This helps the human being to try and excel in virtues because no matter, however minute can escape the Knowledge of the Omniscient. Originally posted by Socod_badne: But I haven't said any of that neither did I anthropomorphize Allah -- a strange accusation. All I said was free will (in it's conventional undertanding) obviates some of Allah's attributes like omniscience. Do you disagree? If so, please tell us why. It is indeed a strange accusation, apologies sxb, I got things a bit mixed up. I do disagree because you seem to think that we could ONLY have free-will if Allah is unaware of the choices we are going to make. Subxanallah! As a Muslim, you believe that Allah is Omniscient, so your choices are a result of your decision and not His Knowledge, somehow you seem to have a difficulty understanding this. Think of Allah's attributes for a while, remember that He is the Creator and our brains would explode from trying to figure Him out (excuse the hyperbole). We are not equipped for such a task and therefore we can make deductions from what we have at our disposal. When you think of "knowledge", don't think of Allah's Knowledge to be similar to ours, I know this sounds bloody obvious but reflect on it. And also, think about Allah's attributes regarding Justice and it might help in elucidating the matter. If you accept Allah as Al-'Adl (The Just) and Al-'Alim (The Knowledgabe), then it would be absurd to claim that He has sealed our fate. Think about His 99 Atributes, He is also Al-Jabar, Al-Halim, etc etc. I don't know whether you believe in predestination or free-will, you seem to mix them freely (as I have understood it) yet they are on either ends of the paradigm. As a Muslim, you obviously should believe you are free to make your own choices, otherwise what would be the purpose of Heaven and Hell? As Nur conscisely said..."So Qadar in other words is Allahs knowledge of our choices. Allah also interferes at times, we call them Miracles." Qadr is not predestination in the literal sense of the word. It has to do with Allah's Knowledge, not a path he has decided for us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Socod_badne Posted July 6, 2006 Originally posted by Viking: I gave the a simple analogy earlier when I said... Allah's SWT knowledge of future events does not necessarily mean that [His Knowledge] causes it to happen.... But that hardly is comparable to omniscient creator. I think you're completely overlooking the latter part in bold. It's not the pre-knowledge of future events that questions human free will but that omniscient creator at question is the selfsame creator that CREATES the subjects supposedly possessing free will -- ie Humans. Can you not see that for omniscient creator, foresight and creating our destiny are the same thing? When Allah creates us, he also creates our destiny. And that destiny is immutable. The ways of the Lord are truly inscrutable! You said that ALlah "does choose our destiny"; this would be saying that He is unjust because we are not responsible for our actions because, as you said, He "chose our destiny". Other things render Allah unjust like him being merciful. But is that mean he is unjust? I think not. If you think God is merciful, you too would be saying he's unjust. Are you? Now, how do you reconcile this line of thinking with your faith? You obviously aren't asking to find out but arguing a position and it would be interesting to know how you reconcile this stand with Islam. I can't but at least I admit that much. The rest is work in progress. - True! But this is where you seem to get lost. His knowledge of what choices we will make in our lives doesn't mean that He has chosen the paths we will take. Refer to above. For an omniscient creator, pre-knowledge of our future actions and creating our destiny mean the same thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johnny B Posted July 6, 2006 Since Viking is originally a Swede lemme serve him some Swedish meatballs and get him onboard. you know , we Swedish are a slightly retarded ! Isaid slightly darn it. !! Viking , det SB säger och du verker har ( troligen ) missat är att , Allah som är all-vetande och skaparen av mänskligheten vet ju vad vi kommer att göra i varenda situation i vårt lilla liv, vilket innebär om Allah vet att den 10de juli 2006 Kl: 21:30 jag ska tafsa på en Amelia som är 8 år yngre än mig och får det på käften, måste(borde , sjävfallet....saknar ord) Allah genom sin kunskap av mitt agerande skapa en Amelia 8 år efter att jag föddes, bland annat ,för att Jag skall få det på käften av henne den 10de juli 2006 Kl: 21:30 , därmed blev Amelia's öde (någolunda)förbestämd. Hoppas att du ser den religösa relationen mellan Allah's vetande och Amelia's fria villjan. Here is a slight translation the nosy ones , Viking , what SB is saying that you seem to be ( probabaly ) missing is that an Allah who is omnicient and creator of mankind knows what we'll do in every given situation in our little life, that entails If Allah knows that July 10th 2006 at 21:30 , i'm gonna handle an Amelia who is younger than me 8 years clumsily and get beaten, then Allah must ( aught, should,..... i'm running out of words here ) create that Amelia 8 years after i was born becouse i among other things had to get beaten by just her,July 10th 2006 at 21:30. thus Amelia's destiny is (somehow) predestined. I hope you see the religious relationshp between an Omniscient Allah and Amelia's free-will. I happen to have other confusions , but let's deal with Warsan's first . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking Posted July 6, 2006 Originally posted by Socod_badne: But that hardly is comparable to omniscient creator . I think you're completely overlooking the latter part in bold. It's not the pre-knowledge of future events that questions human free will but that omniscient creator at question is the selfsame creator that CREATES the subjects supposedly possessing free will -- ie Humans. Can you not see that for omniscient creator, foresight and creating our destiny are the same thing? When Allah creates us, he also creates our destiny. And that destiny is immutable. You seem stuck on the same points that I keep explaining, perhaps we are being held back by semantics. omniscient - having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight - possessed of universal or complete knowledge destiny 1 : a predetermined course of events often held to be an irresistible power or agency predetermine - to IMPOSE a direction or tendency on beforehand predestine - [in this context] settle beforehand You are a Muslim so you obviously believe in The Day of Reckonning. What would this Day serve if all our actions are predetermined (imposed and not out of free-will)? Why create humans only to punish them for deeds they couldn't avoid doing? As a Muslim you have to believe that you will be held responsible for your actions; are you then telling me that we are just following patterns set long before we were born 9meaning we are NOT masters of our destiny and that our deeds are predetermined) or are you questionning Allah's Omniscience [His infinite Knowledge])? Which one is it? It is important that you answer this otherwise further discussion will be futile. Originally posted by Socod_badne: Other things render Allah unjust like him being merciful. But is that mean he is unjust? I think not. If you think God is merciful, you too would be saying he's unjust. Are you? How could a Muslim ask whether God is merciful? These are the kind of remarks that make your position look all too shifty. Originally posted by Socod_badne: I can't but at least I admit that much. The rest is work in progress. If you can't reconcile your current position with your faith then I would recommend for you to start from the basics. The thorough understanding of the Kalimah, the pillars of Imaan and Ihsan. Originally posted by Socod_badne: Refer to above. For an omniscient creator, pre-knowledge of our future actions and creating our destiny mean the same thing. Again, if you start from basics you would understand what is being said here. JB, Tack vännen for ditt bemödande. Jag har under hela tiden förstått vad Socod_badne har sagt men problemet ligger i att hans kunskap i Islam är bristande. Därför har han haft svårighet att begripa vad jag sagt under diskussionen. Om jag hade denna diskussion med en icke-Muslim så själklart skulle jag anpassa infallsvinkeln till hans livsåskådning. (Translation: Thank you for your efforts pal. I have always understood what Socod_badne has been saying but the problem lies in his [lack of] knowledge in Islam. This is the reason why he has had difficulty understanding what I have said during thid discussion. If I had this discussion with a non-Muslim, then naturally I would tailor the discussion towards his outlook on life.) Nu ska jag driva lite med din PC översättning från ovan lol, hoppas det inte gör något... Some of what you really were saying seem to have been lost in translation. You said and translated... "10de juli 2006 Kl: 21:30 jag ska tafsa på en Amelia som är 8 år yngre än mig och får det på käften," (July 10th 2006 at 21:30 , i'm gonna handle an Amelia who is younger than me 8 years clumsily and get beaten) The real translation should be... ...on July 10th at 21:30 I'm going to grope Amelia who is 8 years younger than me and get smacked MVH Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Socod_badne Posted July 6, 2006 Originally posted by Viking: (July 10th 2006 at 21:30 , i'm gonna handle an Amelia who is younger than me 8 years clumsily and get beaten) The real translation should be... ...on July 10th at 21:30 I'm going to grope Amelia who is 8 years younger than me and get smacked MVH What the heck is going on here? Why is Amelia getting groped and who is smacking who? Viking, What do you think of these Sahih Hadiths: Volume 4, Book 55, Number 549: Narrated Abdullah: Allah's Apostle, the true and truly inspired said, "(as regards your creation), every one of you is collected in the womb of his mother for the first forty days, and then he becomes a clot for an other forty days, and then a piece of flesh for an other forty days. Then Allah sends an angel to write four words: He writes his deeds, time of his death, means of his livelihood, and whether he will be wretched or blessed (in religion). Then the soul is breathed into his body. So a man may do deeds characteristic of the people of the (Hell) Fire, so much so that there is only the distance of a cubit between him and it, and then what has been written (by the angel) surpasses, and so he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise and enters Paradise. Similarly, a person may do deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise, so much so that there is only the distance of a cubit between him and it, and then what has been written (by the angel) surpasses, and he starts doing deeds of the people of the (Hell) Fire and enters the (Hell) Fire." Book 033, Number 6390: Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) who is the most truthful (of the human beings) and his being truthful (is a fact) said: Verily your creation is on this wise. The constituents of one of you are collected for forty days in his mother's womb in the form of blood, after which it becomes a clot of blood in another period of forty days. Then it becomes a lump of flesh and forty days later Allah sends His angel to it with instructions concerning four things, so the angel writes down his livelihood, his death, his deeds, his fortune and misfortune. By Him, besides Whom there is no god, that one amongst you acts like the people deserving Paradise until between him and Paradise there remains but the distance of a cubit, when suddenly the writing of destiny overcomes him and he begins to act like the denizens of Hell and thus enters Hell, and another one acts in the way of the denizens of Hell, until there remains between him and Hell a distance of a cubit that the writing of destiny overcomes him and then he begins to act like the people of Paradise and enters Paradise. -These Hadiths pretty much say: our ultimate destiny is pre-destined. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking Posted July 6, 2006 Socod_badne, He writes his deeds, time of his death, means of his livelihood, and whether he will be wretched or blessed (in religion). Then the soul is breathed into his body. This Hadith says the same thing as I was saying and nowhere does it say "man has no control over his destiny". The Hadith shows you Allah's Omniscience and the actions that are being written are what YOU ARE GOING TO DO (because Allah has Knowledge of everything) and not WHAT YOU ARE PROGRAMMED TO DO. He's writting down what you will choose and not what He has chosen for you, it is important to know the difference. Remember the definition of 'predestine' is to IMPOSE a direction or tendency on beforehand. Your actions are not imposed on you but are bourne but out of free-will. It feels we are running in circles here, you saying the same thing over and over and I am giving the same answers. All this would digestable if you went back to basics and understand the Islamic view on this issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Socod_badne Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by Viking: Socod_badne, This Hadith says the same thing as I was saying and nowhere does it say "man has no control over his destiny". How can you say that with straight face? More pertinently, how can you claim this: So a man may do deeds characteristic of the people of the (Hell) Fire, so much so that there is only the distance of a cubit between him and it, and then what has been written (by the angel) surpasses, and so he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise and enters Paradise. Similarly, a person may do deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise, so much so that there is only the distance of a cubit between him and it, and then what has been written (by the angel) surpasses, and he starts doing deeds of the people of the (Hell) Fire and enters the (Hell) Fire. ... says differently than what I've been saying all this time? The bold part underscore the role our pre-destined life plays. It's as a slam dunk case as they come. The Hadith shows you Allah's Omniscience and the actions that are being written are what YOU ARE GOING TO DO (because Allah has Knowledge of everything) and not WHAT YOU ARE PROGRAMMED TO DO. There is no difference between writing down what you are going to do and what you're programmed to do for Omnisceint Creator. I have said that before and you haven't challenged it; hinting no disagreements. Let me try again. Take for instance a job interviewee who accepts 10 resumes from applicants and tells them to show up for formal interviews. Assuring them getting hired depends solely on how well their perform in the interview. However, before the interviews he vets the resumes and decides to cull half of the applicants. So prior to the interviews, he knows who he'll hire. The interviews still take place as scheduled, the outcome however remains immutable -- that which the interviewee already decided on. Idem Omniscient Creator. Before he creates anyone, he knows their ultimate fate. Sure, His creation have free will while they live their lifes but that free will can not change their ultimate fate privy to Allah prior to their creation. I can't be any more perspicuous. If you still disagree, lets agree to disagree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salafi_Online Posted July 11, 2006 So a man may do deeds characteristic of the people of the (Hell) Fire, so much so that there is only the distance of a cubit between him and it, and then what has been written (by the angel) surpasses, and so he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise and enters Paradise. Similarly, a person may do deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise, so much so that there is only the distance of a cubit between him and it, and then what has been written (by the angel) surpasses, and he starts doing deeds of the people of the (Hell) Fire and enters the (Hell) Fire. Allow me to clarify, The Aforementioned Hadith deals with the guidance of Allah. The first person commits to the characteristics of the people of hell and from the bounty of Allah, he is guided. His [chosen] actions stemmed from ignorance. Guidance is only from Allah; it is not something you can choose. This reminds me of the man who killed 99 people and sough forgiveness. Allah guided him and upon death he become from the people of paradise albeit his deeds were from the people of the fire. In contrast the other man possessed the characteristics of the people of heaven. His intention was not for the sake of Allah, That’s why Allah’s messenger (salalahu alayhi wa salam) said, Verily all actions are [judged] by your intention. And Allah, likewise objurgates these sorts in surat 18 ayat 110 [say (O Muhammad SAW): "Shall We tells you the greatest losers in respect of (their) deeds?â€Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life while they thought that they were acquiring good by their deeds] Allah Jala wa 3ala is the turner of the hearts. Whom he guides proceeds based on that guidance. Whom he misguides is left in darkness. At times he may blindly traverse the path of the righteous giving charity, being good to the parents, being kind to his neighbours etc...Though these feats resemble the deeds of paradise the intention is not there. The first three people to enter the fire are Muslims who performed mighty deeds. They find themselves in the depth of the fire because their deeds were only to be seen of men. The fact that Allah the almighty knows your ultimate end does not interfer with your choices. you are ultimately left to decide what to do, what to eat.etc. Allah's keeps tract of your decisions before you decide. free will while they live their lifes but that free will can not change their ultimate fate privy to Allah prior to their creation. This is immaterial. Your ultimate end is the consequence of your choices. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by Socod_badne: Take for instance a job interviewee who accepts 10 resumes from applicants and tells them to show up for formal interviews. Assuring them getting hired depends solely on how well their perform in the interview. However, before the interviews he vets the resumes and decides to cull half of the applicants. So prior to the interviews, he knows who he'll hire. The interviews still take place as scheduled, the outcome however remains immutable -- that which the interviewee already decided on. Idem Omniscient Creator. Before he creates anyone, he knows their ultimate fate. Sure, His creation have free will while they live their lifes but that free will can not change their ultimate fate privy to Allah prior to their creation. I can't be any more perspicuous. If you still disagree, lets agree to disagree. It's not about agreeing to disagree but about you refusing to understand or learn what Islam says about this matter. What this boils down to is how man is and how The Creator is, His Attributes. We only know what is in the past and see what is hapenning in the present but have no idea about what will happen in the future. Human beings are limited by the concept of time; Allah SWT is NOT like His creation and is therefore NOT limited by time like we are. For Him, there is NO PAST, PRESENT OR FUTURE, all is apparent to Him. Therefore what you will do in 10 years is apparent to Him because he is not bound by physical laws (hence me telling you that He knows what YOU will do and doesn't mean chose it for you). Now take this into consideration and apply it to your analogy. Like I said a few times before, learn about the Attributes of Allah and try to understand the concept of free-will from an Islamic point of view. This will facilitate your understanding of this issue. Take a look at the following verses and ponder on what is said... Namely, that no bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another; That man can have nothing but what he strives for; That (the fruit of) his striving will soon come in sight (Al-Najm 53:38-40) Verily never will Allah change the condition of a people until they change it themselves (with their own souls). (Al-Ra'd 13:11) Say: "With God is the argument that reaches home: if it had been His will, He could indeed have guided you all." (Al-An'am 6:149) Originally posted by Salafi_Online: The fact that Allah the almighty knows your ultimate end does not interfer with your choices. you are ultimately left to decide what to do, what to eat.etc. Allah's keeps tract of your decisions before you decide. This is what I've been trying to tell you all this time. If you understood the teachings of Islam then what is said would be very apparent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking Posted July 11, 2006 Socod_badne, Perhaps this would help a bit... 1. Knowledge of God (Taqdeer): Taqdeer is another name for Ilm-e-Ilaahi (Knowledge of God). Now God knows everything before hand, which also includes our future. Suppose God knows that Mary will get good marks in the spot test but Daniel will not. Now God's knowledge cannot be incorrect. Therefore Mary is pre-determined to get good marks and Daniel is pre-determined to get bad marks. Their results are already determined whether they work hard for the test or ignore it. The same can be applied to sin or piety. A person commits a murder because it was already written in God's knowledge; a person helps a poor sick lady because it was already written in his Taqdeer. But this view fails to answer the question that why should a sinful person be punished and a pious person be rewarded on the day of judgment when they were not doing it out of free will? One can go further and say why should a murderer be sentenced to death when it was actually not his doing, but the result of his Taqdeer, and why should Mary get a prize for getting good marks when it was actually her Taqdeer that did it?. It is true that God knows everything. He knew that John will make up his mind to murder his friend. But the question is 'Did John make up his mind to murder his friend because God knew it? or God knew it because John was to independently make up his mind to murder his friend? A couple of illustrations may help us answer the question. Let us imagine that white ants are eating away the wooden pillars of a shed. We can say, "Look ! This roof will fall down." Finally the roof falls down. The question is "Did the roof fall because we said so" or "We said so, because the roof was about to fall due to other factors?" If I drop a glass from the top floor of a high rise building, you would immediately predict that within a few seconds, the glass will crash on the ground. Did it crash because you predicted so? or it it that you said so because you knew it would so happen on the basis of your knowledge about falling bodies? These illustrations are only partially and incompletely analogous to the knowledge of God. Our knowledge, on the basis of which, we predicted that the shed will fall down or the glass will crash on the ground is learned and acquired knowledge. This knowledge was not acquired through any supernatural means. It is based on the study of physical bodies and laws of nature. God's knowledge about future is of a different nature. We have no understanding of God's ways. But one thing is certain. God knows that a certain individual would perform a certain act, but the individual would perform the act out of his will. God only knew it in advance. Therefore, if John murders his friend, he does that with his free will. Although it is correct that God already knew it. John has not murdered his friend because God knew it; rather God knew it because John was to murder his friend out of his free will. Therefore John should be held accountable for his act. 2. Nothing happens without God's will: It is true that God is the only effective force in the world. He has full control over the universe and not a single particle is beyond his command and control. However this does not mean that God is responsible for every evil in this world. Here a distinction between God's 'Sanction' and his 'Liking' must be understood. Everything that happens in the universe follows God's sanction or permission for it. Nothing can happen unless God allows it to happen. However, it does not necessary mean that He also likes whatever He sanctions. This world is a place where all men are being judged. Human actions are being watched and recorded for final judgment on the Day of Judgment. Since this life is a test period, men must have the freedom to choose between evil and good. God would not interfere with human choices, nor would manipulate them, because this would defeat the very purpose of a test. This world is like an examination hall. A supervisor passes by a student and finds that the student is writing down an incorrect reply to the question asked. Should the supervisor ignore this mistake or should he tell the student that he is not attempting the question correctly? Obviously, we think that the correct conduct of the supervisor entails that he should ignore the student's mistake. If the student is checked right during the examination, the very purpose of the examination is defeated. Similarly, God allows us to make moral choices at our will and does not interfere through angels and divine powers when we are pursuing an immoral path. Thus we create evil in the world by reckless behavior and by making wrong moral choices. God is not responsible for this evil. He has only permitted it, but surely, does not like it. 3. If man is free he can do anything Man is free to make up his mind and to build intentions to perform good or bad acts. He is free to wish, intend and plan - but he is not always free to implement his plans. To carry out our intentions, we need the cosmic harmony to go along with us. But the number of forces acting in this world may obstruct our plans and thwart them. Our frustrated designs (whether good or bad) show that the cosmic determinism does not necessarily go along with our intentions. Carrying out our good or bad intentions is often beyond our control. God's superimposed rule over everything fixes boundaries for possibilities open to us in the realm of carrying out actions. Through his power over everything, he plans and designs the universe. His plans clearly and unquestionable overrule ours. Thus, when it comes to human actions we must know that although we are not free to carry out our plans in life, but we are free to make up our mind to do anything . In other words, we are free to have an iraada (intention) but not free to implement it. But the final judgment is to be passed not on our ability to do something but to intend and strive to do it. We shall be punished or rewarded for something that we are free to choose. We would not be punished or rewarded for something that is beyond our control. We are perfectly free to choose and make up our minds to do something. If the intended action is good we would be rewarded, irrespective of the fact whether we are able to carry it out or not. The same is true of evil intentions and efforts also. 4. Environment Among other factors that affect our lives, the environment (family, peers, media, literature, society and state) is the most obvious. Religion does not argue whether the environment has any influence or not, and if it does affect our moral choices, to what extent can we resist or succumb to it. It however establishes a rule that we would only be held responsible to the extent that we were free to choose. The conscious or unconscious influences that might have shaped our choices would be accounted for in the hereafter. One would only be held responsible for his choices that he was perfectly free to make, and to such extent only. Source Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites