An Issue that could be discussed at the “Reconciliation meeting”

[Alle-ubaahne]

If killing the enemy that invaded our country has become believing in suicide bombings, then I believe in it, even if I fail to have a daliil in my religion, I would still stand there and say, "qaniinyo qaniinyo kale ayaa kaa fujisa" and proceed with my business as usuall!

 

Xiinow, warka ninka maad runta u sheegtid, caku iyo hadal aan xaqiisa la siinin oo dusha laga soo marmaro!

[Khalaf]

Xiin adeer u are not fond of theological squabbles, I am not fond of this suicidal mission that you are bent on. As ive said I still have my suspiouns about the icu, from day one I said they must change months ago before I even knew about indacades/abdiqasins/or could tell clan x from y....but lets for sake of argument speak about islamic struggle and how to bring change. I still do not know who these shabaabs are, they may not only be aligned along clan and have clan interests in mind but also aqeedah-this is recipe for disaster adeer, hyprcrisy and islam can not be mixed..........its not about killing men or winning battles but bringing the ultimate change after a war-an Islamic state and for that to occur the stage must be set before you stand on it, and Somalia is not set-this society is no different then the mushriik arabs-separted long clan lines with much distrust, u know the method of prophethood scw adeer to unite them under Islam, most certainly is not the way of this group u support.

 

I for one believe Muslims who are in battle for fisbillihi must be pure both in intent and in their hearts. They must have prepared themselves-both in heart (pure) and physically (weapons,traning ect) before they set foot in the battlefield. I don’t believe in being separated along clan lines, or aqeedah, or being financed by kufars (erteria), or political oppoternuits (abdiqasin) no injustice in the least bit, no shadyness......but one brotherhood, one army, under one amiir. These groups sure can kill, and u may think killing soliders of enemy is success but your achievements will bear no fruit, 50 years in falistine is proof adeer......compare it to the battle of Badr with only over 300 dedicated and committed men that have prepared themselves both in hearts (pure-fight only for sake of making the Khalimah of Allah Great-not killing men, or mixed up wit clans, politics ect) and in weapons as the Quran orders. Why is it that the Prophet's Islamic movement was successful in short-time, while the present day movements fail to establish Islam in even a small portion of the globe? The answer is in the Quran and Sunnah.

 

That is why in this situation-look at reality on ground adeer and your forces, best way forward is what Thirry outlined and I told u yesterday. That’s enough time for a brotherhood to set the stage following the Quran and Sunnah and uniting the Muslims in the Horn not only in Somalia-remember ethiopia in which some ppl want revenage is 50% Muslim......there is politics and then there is Islam adeer......

[Alle-ubaahne]

"There is politics and there is Islam adeer"

 

the well known believe that politics and religion can't go together! Waxaas baa munaafaqnimo lagaa dhahaa, waliba tan waa model-kii 2007, I say!

[Khalaf]

Originally posted by Alle-ubaahne:

the well known believe that politics and religion can't go together!

That is smarest thing i have heard u say adeer, keep up the good work, think a little harder and you make the connection that Abdiqasin was an opportunist politician. ..........

 

Let me make it clear: I said there is politics (corrupt) then their Islam which is different then opportunistic politics and follows Quran-Sunnah-Shariah-Islamic state....mida kale didnt abdiqasin head the old tfg (secular) and ask for ethios? ka waraan sxb.

 

peace out, and salaamun sxbs

[xiinfaniin]

^^ Khalaf , I must have given you the wrong impression of what I am looking for in Somalia. I am not looking for an Islamic state. Not in the near time anyway. I have no problem with having a secular body of government. I can tolerate warlords as leaders if Somali populace could leave in peace and dignity. I am not hypocrite adeer: I live in peace and dignity in a decidedly secular environment. I went to school, graduated, and landed on the job I wanted. I am very practical man when it comes down to these issues. That you should understand before you go on tangent lecturing about your ideal stances of participating political Islam.

 

Now what irks me, and probably many brothers and sisters feel the same way, is the reality on the ground in Somalia. A sworn enemy had won the last battle and is bent to maximize his victory. It has rounded up good people on the basis of religious conviction and belief and sent them down to Addis jails. It has even begun to abduct Somalis from neighboring countries. When I see people resisting that occupation regardless of their level of religious education and theological allegiances, I find no comfortable stance other than supporting them. Morally. They are indeed doing a favor for us when they resist violently and angrily. To deny Ethiopia a stable foothold in Somalia is one of the prerequisites for the return of our nationhood. It’s not as though these shabaabs are destroying an established peace in Xamar---the security vacuum has been engineered in a careful calculation, I theorize, to keep us, Somalis, in a manageable anarchy. As you know Xamar security has been sat back by the defeat of icu, and has not been enhanced by the coming of tfg. You need to ask why adeer? Where you see a sense of return to governance, I see an Ethiopian entrenchment. Where you view tfg as a tolerable entity that could deliver us from the evil, I see it an entity dominated by weak collaborators who neither care not share Somali nationhood and dignity.

 

After careful thought and consideration, I have come to believe that the most beneficial political event that could happen in our lifetime is for these shabaabs to deny Ethiopia a foothold in Somalia--especially in the south. To comment on the edges of their struggle by citing idealistic theological exegesis is to add, I daresay, certain arrogance to the ongoing Ethiopian/American persecution of them. At best, it makes you look out of loop when it comes to the big struggle between these two entities. At worst, it shows that you are indifferent to the political consequence an Ethiopian military occupation.

 

How to end this?

1-Ethiopia must withdraw from Somalia.

2-tfg and Islamist elements in Somalia should sit down and agree on something …

 

If not, you fill….

 

In short, i am not looking for a somalia under Ethiopian occupation and influence adeer. That's intolerable in my books.

 

War ma fahamtay mise weli wax baa kuu haray?

[Fabregas]

@Khalaf

 

 

There was an Emir, his name was Sheikh Shariff Sheikh Ahmad!His movement had many flaws, as he admitted himself: " we are humans who make mistakes". If you are waiting for a perfect Islamic movement, in which everyone, wears the same khamiis, kufi and same length beard as your madhab, you will never get one. If your are waiting for a perfect Islamic movement to suddenly appear out of nowhere, than you will never get one. If you analyse every little flaw of an Islamic movement, down to their leaders and what you think their hearts contain, than you will find flaws in everyman, except, probably yourself. This is why we overlook our minor differences over the greater struggle, which is to protect the deen.When Ali R.a, was asked concerning the apostasy of a group concerning their Kufr, he declined to label them as Kufr in order to keep the unity of the Muslims, within their ranks.

 

I'll tell you many a men, have been well versed in the quran and spouted great speech. Men, more pious than Indhacade and Abdiqasim with longer beards have and still work for the Mushrikiin.Are you Allah swt, to accept everyones hearts to be clean?Tell me exactly, how one would judge this? Which is worser, the one who knows little Islam and helps the Emir or the one who is pious and sides with Mushrikiin? Would you rather these men expelled( from the Islamic movement) and side with Zenawi? Even if Abdiqasim was made the Emir, it was still binding on the Muslim to support him over Zenawi.If Abdullahi Yusuf was made the Emir and he confronted the invading Abysnians, it would still be binding on the Muslims to support him. Even when Siad Bare( a marxist) confronted them, the Somalis were shouting Allahu Akbar. What excuses(islamically) do those that support the invading non muslims troops over their fellow muslims have?

 

Tell me what worser crimes there was against our deen, when our Ulema were being bounty hunted and sold in Muqidsho port to the c.ia agents? Tell me what great security danger there is to our deen, than the youth being kidnapped and sent to secret prisons all over the world? Tell me what greater danger there is to our deen, when our ulema are arrested by our leaders and accused of being terrorists? What greater insult is there than, when the leaders of the Mushrikiin vow: " we will never allow the Shariah and Calipha"? What greater shame is there, when the mushrikiin approach us in our towns and say: " hand over your youth they are terrorists"?All of these things are happening in Somalia today. Are these problems not greater than the supposed clan orientations of a few men?

 

The Islamic Courts union were not perfect, in fact they had many flaws. However, when they were in charge:

 

The Ulema were protected( no kidnaps and detentions)

The Muslim woman were protected( no rapes)

The youth were protected

The property of the Muslims was protected

The blood of the Muslims was protected

 

Today, a man( Zenawi) who attributes sons to Allah can come in your town and:

 

Invade your land

Search your house

Arrest your Ulema and detain them

Tell you to hand over your shabab

Rape your woman

Tell you what political systems you must adopt

 

These threats to the Deen( and people) are far greater then who is clan orientated and who wasn't.

[Khalaf]

Geel-Jira that was most beautiful speech man and makes much logical sense, thanks brother, u got a gift sxb, thats most convincing speech i heard thus far on the issue. I never questioned clan, I dont care about that, but highlighted the situation in somalia (a mushrik society) no different then the warring arabs separted along clan lines with much distrust, u know the method of prophethood scw to unite them under Islam in which i said the icu should follow if they wanted success but they chose hasty war unprepared, indacade druglord given authority to call for higheest duty in Islam-jihad....they were/are financed by kufar-erteria what do u think about this?

 

2. Why is it that the Prophet's Islamic movement was successful in short-time, while the present day movements fail to establish Islam in even a small portion of the globe? Sxb we know the problems, but provide the roadmap.

 

Xiin adeer waan ku fahamey...we shall inshallah see

[Tahliil]

When I see people resisting that occupation regardless of their level of religious education and theological allegiances, I find no comfortable stance other than supporting them. Morally.

They are indeed doing a favor for us when they resist violently and angrily. To deny Ethiopia a stable foothold in Somalia is one of the prerequisites for the return of our nationhood.

Couldn't say it better myself...