Somalia besieged.

[xiinfaniin]

We are indeed besieged by

1- Political attitude

2- Clannish hatred

3- Opportunistic neighbor/foe

 

 

Any ideas as to how to lift the siege and halt our tragic Fall?

[Xoogsade]

Oh Xiin, Now I understand what you intended for the topic. I just saw the additional elaboration you added at the bottom and edited what I wrote previously.

 

I would like to put it simply and say all three problems you mentioned can be overcome by adhering to Allah's book and somalis truly living their islamic beliefs. There is no other way out of the macabre situation unfolding in Muqdisho.

 

Take Care.

[BiLaaL]

xiinfaniin - The second on your list is quickly emerging as the most paramount of issues facing us. As a neutral observer, most disinterested in tribalism, its very distubring that some see the settling of clan rivalries more important than ending the occupation. Any ideas? Well, i don't see any solutions other than Islam. Its been apparent both to ourselves and enemies alike, that the only ideology powerful enough to help us escape the shackles of clannish hatred is Islam. The only trouble is, however, the mere mention of an Islamic system for Somalia is sure to invite another dose of the 'war on terror' to our doorstep.

 

A final analysis? Until there is a marked and positive improvement in international relations; i.e. one where Islam is not greeted with suspicion but with full acceptance, shall we see any real future for Somalia. For now, we are caught between an international system which will not allow us to employ the only solution to our problems and an equally uncompromising clan-based system.

[RedSea]

Islam.

 

A more improved movement like the Union of the Islamic courts would have with few more good and familiar faces as well as respected Shiekhs hailing from different qabiils until the qabiil hatred is abolished would.

[Caano Geel]

all our own making .. maybe we deserve it

[RedSea]

Abti,

 

noo ducee, duca ayaa kaaga fiican inta aad intaas leeday.

[Alle-ubaahne]

Originally posted by Caano Geel:

all our own making .. maybe we deserve it

nothing on our making, but I agree that we deserve to die for Jannah and for the Xaq.

 

Xiin, saxiib waa inaan ilaahey barino, hadii aanan wax kale qabin karin, Allah ayaa muslimka ku filan gargaar.

[BiLaaL]

Originally posted by Caano Geel:

all our own making .. maybe we deserve it

We thoroughly deserve it. Jidka naloogu tala galay anagaa ka tagnay.

[Baashi]

Yes Xiin.

 

Let's sit down and discuss about the situation. Ethiopia will remain the king maker it is so long we refuse to sit down and try to come up a solution.

 

This clan get his behind wooped. It feels humiliated and rationalizes that going to Addis is the only way to get even. It crosses the border and asks the Kingmaker to turn the tables to its favor. With Ethiopian toys, it comes back and wins in style. The defeated one takes the same route...and the cycle continues.

 

Ask why and all the ones that slept with the enemy for selfish clannish reasons have a story to tell! Many folks in this forum justify and condone when their "faction" happens to be the one under the gun. Folks across the aisle cry treason. Ethiopia wins each time!

 

The solution is to end this tragedy by convening a grand reconcilaition council. Nothing short will do awoowe.

 

Waqti ma jiro awoowe ee mar baan si wacan uga faaloon doonaa.

[Khalaf]

there can only be two likely scenerios in my view:

 

1.The tfg governs until it's terms ends in 2009, then “elections” (umm sham to many but wake up dis is Africa) are held. An agreement should be reached with the unsatisfied elders (did u hear them on bbc? Ya raabi ) and their grievances should be met. As corrupt as the TFG is ect, this will have the least damage for Somalia and bloodsheed is avoided, afterall it is a system in which was devised in 2004 and does still to this day have support of large part of Somalia and while majority of rest of country are indifferent, and the warlords that the icu defeated have been tamed and have no political maneuvering within the TFG. Somalia is not really a "sovereign" nation in sense of the word nor do u have any unity in this country.....more Ethiopia has handle on puntland, somaliland, and for the time being the south can become like a Puntland/Somaliland. A federalist system (reality peeps not your day dreams) in which each region has semi-autonomy and control over its populace with a weak centralized government should be formed.

 

2. Second scenario. An all outwar against the government and its supporters. Now the cyper-fadhi ku diri cats prefer this option and call for a war (which means destruction to the ppl of xamar) to be waged in which they living peacefully in the west will not participate, ironic init?. Um all for a good fight, but one must look at what will come after the war, if defeated or with victory? Moreover by how/whom/in what form will it take? Will it be a nationalistic struggle-absolutely not. Will it be a religious struggle-absolutely not, not today sxbyal. We all heard the clan elders, they are more angered by the clan of puntland then the Ethiopians-welcome to reality not your day dreams hadaba. Again u have right to fight a clan war if u feel threatened.......but there is no threat, nor “subjection” “massacre” how so? If u site AY using full force and this is due to clan to "masscure" "subjection" ect, know that he did the same thing in puntland, nothing personal to duqas. Lets look at the facts hadaba: It’s the 21st sxbyal, not Awoowe’s time.....moreover a small subclan which itself is divided has no power nor the capability to “subject” or “massacre” the largest clan in Somalia according to the CIA-fact book, that’s impossible-wake-up for those who hold that view....cuuuqdaad iyo buufiska iska biixiya its 21st century......time to play politics......the facts on the ground show again um dealing with those who have these “fears”......that the tfg contains majority the clan of the south and this clan holds much weight in its future’s politics-marka play ball That is one side of the coin, the other side if politics is not played a clan war starts-this can only happen if there is clan uprising in which odayalsha are hoping for...... yesterdays warlords-da Qayners Yalxows, ect and thier homies will defect to the “opposition” and so on....lets say in the best case scerenio in their view they are successful in defeating the TFG aight with their blood, sweat, and toil, and bring more destruction to region......what then afterwards?......back to square one no? Small thinkers dheh.

 

3.The ideologists-that want shariah an Islamic state in the horn will have the most to lose in both sceneries, but they must think of the greater good and know how the game works. should regroup and form a brotherhood in the horn-a political wing, financial wing, educational/dawa wing-, and military wing....ect ect. Take it from there sxbyall.

[xiinfaniin]

Bilaal:

I beg to disagree saaxiib. The notion of crossing the border and going to Ethiopia to satisfy one’s own political ambitions, so conveniently, regardless of sovereignty and national considerations is the most negative, and prevailing one, of our political ills. I hold it’s this type of political attitude of ours that’s the most paramount. It feeds and exacerbates our other political ailments. As Somalis, we were clans---and still are. At times we were warring clans. Today’s clannish hatred though is a function of the said political attitude. Ethiopia fuels the fire, but does not create the conditions. The political attitude does. Do you see my point adeer?

 

Baashi, I know you are busy adeer. But I still don’t quite get how a conference held under the shades of Ethiopian tanks could produce any results. Meaningful results that is!

 

Xoogga & Alle ubaahane: I agree that Islam is the final solution to our problems. From theological standpoint, it’s simple to say that, and agree with it. Given the historical fact that even our salaf failed politically, to certain degree, how could we translate such a grand concept to a practical solution that solves out political problems is the question?

 

Khalaf, you seem to be fixated on this tfg, and rightly so. View it as the most negative aspect of Somali politics. It’s a living scandal adeer. Tribally inspired and greed driven men are in its driving seat. Its tunnel-vision-like approach will hasten its demise. The losers are Somali people. The victors are our enemies.

 

What else might you suggest other than tolerating this disgrace yaa Khalaf?

[Khalaf]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

Khalaf

, you seem to be fixated on this tfg, and rightly so. View it as the most negative aspect of Somali politics. It’s a living scandal adeer. Tribally inspired and greed driven men are in its driving seat. Its tunnel-vision-like approach will hasten its demise. The losers are Somali people. The victors are our enemies.

 

What else might you suggest other than tolerating this disgrace yaa Khalaf? [/QB]

^^^Xiin what do u suggest or are u waiting for Sire Baashi?, I have outlined what I think is best way forward considering the circumanstances and complexity of somali politics and the nomad whose views I most concur with is Sir Baashi.....u and other icu supporters-in ur case with the ideologists and I support do have lotta of hot air, empty slogans and are still stuck in past of last june.....true u got vision in which I share but no realistic roadmap considering the regional players, international players-the big game sire and how u intend to bring about change with disunity and distrust amongst the somalis......if u have done that.....then I have yet to see it adeer....only complains of TFG ect ect.

 

With u I share the ideology, however unlike u I don’t believe the courts as we knew them could bring about the objective we wanted-a united Islamic state in its pure form. I believe u know my stance on that, and to recover and bring about this change I have touched on the general does, on point three in my last post on what the ideologists (keep out clanists/looters/warlords/poltical oppertunists ect) should do.

 

Here’s the script um sure u will concur, depending on who u ask tho this is correct or incorrect in Somalia....but for sake of argument lets say this: Somalia is under occupation, western hegemony ect ect. This is not something new, I would tell u over the last century countless islamic movements have formed mainly in reaction to outside influences. Our emotions are stired as Muslims around the world by their struggles and their chants of Allah Akbars check falistine...........yet despite their wide appeal and support.........their achievements have been negligible and they have been unable to reach their objectives or form anything close to modern islamic state? Now why is this so? Will u only point fingers at da boogy man “ da west” to answer.....or not be a simpleton and dig deep into the issues? Your call

 

 

salaamu lah

[xiinfaniin]

^^Fair enough adeer.

 

Lets wait good Baashi’s take on this.

[AYOUB]

As Somalis, we were clans---and still are. At times we were warring clans. Today’s clannish hatred though is a function of the said political attitude. Ethiopia fuels the fire, but does not create the conditions. The political attitude does. Do you see my point adeer?

Agree with this 100% Sir Xiin.

 

The problem is Somalis don't live in "an ideal Somali world". Never mind clan hatred, what about simple suspicion? Fact is, some of the elders that were so determined to unite Somalis (in the 1950/60s) ultimately had to cross the borders (in the 1970/80s). That says it all. Can anyone dare criticise the people of Bay/Bakool/etc for crossing over? Bad experiences and events can change "political attitude" in a very dramatic way. The fine line, which if crossed turns a fellow Somali to the biggest enemy is not the eastern border but cruelty and injustice. You and I are where we are because we had to make CHOICES not because of "political attitude".

 

Islam or geniune Muslims is "the ideal Somali world". That is what to aim for. I don't think we'll reach it in my lifetime, but, as they say: "aim for the stars and reach the sky". The "sky" or the "not so ideal Somali world" is a more just and fairer society than today's.

 

 

"Any ideas as to how to lift the siege and halt our tragic Fall?

"

 

 

I was excited high had hopes when some elders up north showed willingness to change and reform. These elders and their declarations should've been supported and encouraged to spread their ideas further. Rather than shun the traditional/clan elders, "sheekhs" should've devised a programme to educate and spread the word. The fact is, the political leaders (MPs, ministers, etc) get votes mainly from the backing of these elders. If they were even more versed in Islam and had good relations with "wadaads/sheekhs", then they'll back the "ideal people" for office . These "ideal people" will in turn start the "ideal education/schools/curriculum". With the blessing of the Almighty the future students will cured of this hatred and suspicion. If these happens, the mistrust that exist between Somalis and their neighbours (swahili,afar,oromo etc) will be a thing of the past too. Lots of ifs and easier said than done but that's my way out of it.

[xiinfaniin]

^^I too agree that’s the way out of it yaa Ayoub. Lets hope these future students, as you put, will not catch the clannish bug. For if they do, Somalia, as we knew it, would, for good, belong to the ages.

 

Now the current besiege needs to be partially lifted so the looming major wars and destructions can be avoided. When you look at it, you have to admire the cunning with which our current trap is sat. Ethiopian withdrawal means tfg’s collapse. Ethiopian stay means continuation of the current resistance. The continuation of current resistance assures perpetual fighting hence instability. Instability in turn causes mass exodus and the suffering of the population. How do you break this cycle?

 

Let me hazard a plan.

1- Secure ceasefire

2- Relocate TFG to Kismayo or any other friendly city

3- Withdraw Ethiopian troops

4- Hold grand reconciliation conference

5- Discuss all issues.