Hargeisa: Imprisoned Christian On Hunger Strike

[Paragon]

^

[Paragon]

^Lol@defeated lot. I think you'll best served if you don't use such terms in the meantime - while you are hoping to get the power back from him (you know Aabe Riyaale). Till then, you are the ...what was Duke's term for you?

 

PS: Can't you join us? The one line bridgade? I mean my eyes are sore from reading too much, my dear lad.

[Sherban Shabeel]

Cowke, you obviously know nothing of Christianity sxb.

 

But let me ask you this: what would life be like if all these Christian states in the world had the same attitude towards Muslims that you have against Christians?

 

You are allowed to profess your religion openly and build mosques in the UK. You can also do so in Romania. But God forbid I build a church in Somalia or Saudi.

[Paragon]

Sherbaan, it'll be too simplistic to reason the way you do on this matter.

 

Remember, Christian civilisation is the dominant one today and its only reasonable that the previous (Muslim) civilisation it dislodged should feel so protective.

 

Once upon a time when a Muslim civilisation was dominant, religious tolerance and freedom was unprecendented.

[Cowke]

Sherban their is only two possibilities. 1. God exists and therefore it's islam or 2. God doesn't exist and there is no way.

 

It's either yes or no. After assesssing various evidences for god i have come to conclusion he does exist and after sound-proofing islam checking manuscripts like uthmanic and even the san'ca one i have come to the conclusion this religion has been well preserved.

 

I however can never ever accept that God was buried for 3 days as the christians believe. I can not accept that God comes in 3 forms. I can't accept these things because it is against mere logic. For example: how can a limitless god who can not be contained, yet was contained in a mere body of jesus just like christians believe. The christians say "all the spirit of god dwelled in jesus" go read the bible sxb. Its just illogical the god with no limits now has limits which is in jesus body.

 

These sort of things don't fall well on the logical people, only the jahils convert to christianity sxb.

[Sherban Shabeel]

Originally posted by J11:

Remember, Christian civilisation is the dominant one today and its only reasonable that the previous (Muslim) civilisation it dislodged should feel so protective.

 

Once upon a time when a Muslim civilisation was dominant, religious tolerance and freedom was unprecendented.

Christian civilisation isn't dominant today, no religion is. Money civilisation is dominant today, and it is arguable that this is a(n unholy) religion in itself.

 

As for dominance, why do we always have to think in terms of dominance? No one needs to be dominant. Religion is not a contest.

 

Cowke:

 

Again, you lack basic understanding of Christianity. I suggest you look up the Archbishop of Canterbury's explanations of the Holy Trinity etc..

 

Yes I believe in God, yes I am Christian, and I don't see any contradictions here.

[Cowke]

Sherban The nicene creed is an explanation of the holy trinity not the archbishop of canterbury.

 

The trinity says that god comes in 3 persons which are separate yet equal but the 1 god. They try to justify this with analogies such as a tree with many branches. They insist that the tree is 1 but it has various branches. Therefore God is 1 with separate persons that work in communion for him.

 

But like i said there is still problems with the trinity. 1. How can an eternal god die? Jesus is apparently God in the flesh as christians ascertain; So when jesus die who died exactly? Was it the man or god? The response i get from christians is either Jesus the man side died and not the god part of jesus. Well this problematic because jesus can not be sinless sacrifice with the spirit of god being present within him. If the spirit of god was not present within God he would just be a normal man.

 

The spirit of God is what made jesus sinless according to christian belief. If the spirit of god didn't die on the cross, then no salvation is possible. Because only a man died and all men are born sinners according to their dogma, so in reality a sinner a died with that answer i get from christian.

 

The other answer they give is "yes god died on the cross" and if that is the case then god can not die because this is against his eternal nature.

 

Their is numerous areas of christianity that is problematic. Another example is the story of the adulterous woman who was brought before jesus and jesus remarked "throw the first stone if you are without sin to the audience at the time".

 

This scenario is problematic. If jesus is saying throw the first stone if you are without sin, why did jesus not throw the first stone after-all he was sinless? if he didn't throw the stone because he forgave the adulterous woman, then that is problematic also because that would mean jesus sinned or transgressed against the law of moses which jesus had to live under according to jesus belief untill the sacrifice happened. When the sacrifice happened on the cross is when the law of moses was replaced with grace and forgiveness. But before that jesus was under the law of moses and needed to apply the law if he didn't he committed a transgression of the law and earned a sin.

 

If jesus sinned, that means the salvation theory can not work because a sinner died on the cross and a sinner can't cleanse your sins according to the christian dogma.

 

I can't sit here all day and list the various issues, their is issues with corruption also with the text. If u read the foot-notes of the bible you will find many verses were added later by the writer of the gospel.

 

Their is issues of authorship and countless number of versions of the same "apparent story" of jesus. Why would God want to give the people 4 gospels that all conflict and say this is the final word of god? totally problematic.

 

I mean I personally don't talk about religion on SOL, however I have read the bible and I personally can not accept that is the word of god with all these numerous problems.

[Cowke]

J11. For goodness sake do you actually believe the west is christian civilization? lol that is like saying TURKEY is an islamic country.

 

First of all son when the bible was used as a form of governance it happened during the dark-ages a period from the 12th-17th century. At that time witches were being burnt, jews exterminated in the inquisition, they were literally living in caves and sniffing each other backsides.

 

Then came the renaissances which brought along a different form of governance which they literally stole from the muslims in islamic spain which was living through their golden age.

 

However today they are advanced not because of the christian faith or bible, but due to capitalism and secularism. Secularism whole point is to separate government and church. You know what that means? that means to keep the bible out of government policies and decisions. If it wasn't for this the christians would never advance.

 

They would still be in the dark ages if they dare use the bible as their form of governances. Thank secularism which saved the west, don't thank the bible which infact has proven if it is used will render ppl to stone-ages.

 

Where-as muslims when ruling with the quran have proven to be successful in the past and advanced, it is only when they drop the quran for other forms of government they have remained backwards.

 

It is totally comparison issues which you don't understand but I am sure the more educated will understand on SOL.

[Paragon]

^Cowke, it is if you are privy to the mind-sets of policy-makers. You'd be surprised.

 

More of the masses are sheep. The men behind the scenes control.

 

PS: Read Ibn Khalduun's the History of the world and look up the age of dynasties. And when they arise, peak and then spiral into graduate collapse. .

 

Educated ones on SOL? Lol. Don't mislead yourself man. All you need to do is think.

 

Originally posted by Sherban Shabeel:

quote:Originally posted by J11:

Remember, Christian civilisation is the dominant one today and its only reasonable that the previous (Muslim) civilisation it dislodged should feel so protective.

 

Once upon a time when a Muslim civilisation was dominant, religious tolerance and freedom was unprecendented.

Christian civilisation isn't dominant today, no religion is. Money civilisation is dominant today, and it is arguable that this is a(n unholy) religion in itself.

 

As for dominance, why do we always have to think in terms of dominance? No one needs to be dominant. Religion is not a contest.

Yes, yes. Or so they say. I use to hear this sort of argument from the opponents of the class of civilisation thesis, especially with the 'fault lines' hypothesis.

 

But Sherban, you are simply blinding yourself to the blatant truth: how can you say Christian (the father) civilisation ruled once but not his (son and)heir (capitalism) rules. In Somali, when we want to cut out the BS we say 'waa dameer iyo labadiisa dhegood' (a donkey and it's two ears). Money religion is the product of centuries of Judeo-Christian religious beliefs.

 

But forget about Europe, have you see how fanatic American and Jewish soldiers are lately? They arent just so because of coincidence but this is because of a strong belief system that influences foreign policies directly. One doesn't have to be a foreign policy analyst (one trained for this) to figure things out.

 

PS: Maybe economically the West is in one of Rostow's later stages but even then from whence does it originate?

[Cowke]

J11 absolutely no substance to what you just said except just posh words with no actual point.

 

Listen stop practising how to make your text eloquent and start making some hard crunching points.

 

You provided no proof nor did you show any examples when christianity developed capitalism? Last time I checked the christian faith shared more similarities with the socialist based idealogy then capitalism. An example of this socialist trend is "feed the poor, cloth them with what you wear, in-fact the bible abhors wealthy men and says it's very difficult for wealthy men to reach heaven" in-fact their are some verses in the bible that clearly state "blessed are the poor for their is the kingdom of god".

 

You made some note of Christian civilizations but provided no argument accept just waste of bandwidth.

 

Sxb get back to me when you actually can learn to set a premise, provide a punch line and end with a conclusion. No amount of fancy words will make your argument stronger, the more simpler and straight forward you are the more minds you can convince.

[Paragon]

Your whole outlook is based on a history of 15 or 20 years?

 

What the good book says and what the mortals practice are altogether different kind of cheese.

 

Anyway, go do a little research in your own terms. I could give you some key words but I can't be bothered. Educating yourself on basic things such as this is your duty. Not mine.

 

Err.. even so here: http://www.acton.org/publications/randl/rl_article_344.php

[Cowke]

Ok sxb it is obvious you can't even differentiate between christians and the bible. The old-testament is very clear on "interest" and Interest is one of the basic foundations of capitalism and it is totally forbidden by the bible.

 

Sure christians may have ignored the bible, which they have done so by using democracy and not their bible, but just because a christian embraces something that is totally unacceptable by his belief system doesn't make his belief system the originator of the entity at hand.

 

Look at this way, saddam hussein was a bad man, but does that mean islam told him to be? no of course not, he disobeyed islam and became a bad man and you can't blame islam for it.

 

Same can be applied with christians and capitalism, even if christians did use capitalism this was not because their GOD told them to, they do so because of REJECTING their bible. Yet again proving the bible has nothing to do with capitalism but christians may.

[Paragon]

Have heard of 'Dual Morality'?

 

My friend, the world is ruled by people who have no 'grey-area' vantage view.

 

And yes, I don't really find you as a worthy debating adversary.

 

So, I can't be bothered, really.

 

As you were.

[Cowke]

Well sir i am not here to argue with you, I am here merely correcting you; you can make such outlandish statements as "christianity influenced capitalism" that thesis you posted can even be refuted by SOL poster, imagine what someone in Harvard or oxford will do with that little piece?

 

Sxb thesis are only good if they can not be proven incorrect. For example the evolution "theory" can be debunked if you can bring credible evidence that can be observed by scientist and if that evidence is seen as more consistent with the facts at hand you will quickly see the evolution theory be replaced.

 

Same goes for thesis they are only as good as long as their is evidence that clearly stands against it.

 

Here is the verse from the bible that completely denounces usury or interest rate;

 

Luke 6:34-35 (New King James Version)

And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back. 35 But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return ; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil.

 

Source: bible gateway

 

That is just 1 mere example preaching against capitalism, you should learn money not expecting anything in return, I don't think that would sit to well with the banking system in the west today.

 

As i explained earlier, just because a christian does things which are capitalism, democracy, human-rights, etc. These things have no place in the bible and they do so out of their own VINDICATION.

 

I am merely against you in this respect because you try to present that "christianity" as a religion is responsible for the so-called thriving civilization the west is living in, when nothing can be further from the truth. Christianity infact has not inspired anything to do with the west, if anything it was the separation of the church and state that kick-started the western empire into what it is today.

 

So how can you go around on this forum saying "christianity" created the west, when it was men who said "we must get rid of christianity" from our government system(secularism) and then thrive.

 

Sxb don't insult me or go down to cheap-shots just attack the issue if you can't just silently refrain from carrying on the discussion. However don't expect you can merely get away with mis-representing the facts.

[Sherban Shabeel]

Jamal:

 

Christianity is not the originator of capitalism. The corrupt practices of the Catholic church may be a part of it, but in no way is money-religion a product of Jesus-religion.

 

In fact it is an accepted fact by many Christians that Jesus was a poor man and this is supposed to remind us that virtue lies not in what a man possesses but how he interacts with those around.

 

Cowke:

 

The forum is a bad medium to have a debate of this magnitude, and I could spend days with you talking about Christianity and religion in general.

 

But please remember that it is the religion of 2 billion people, including mine, and that talking about it as if it was a disease (as you did in earlier posts before I stepped in) has the potential to be very hurtful.