Who voted for federalism? Who voted for 4.5?

[shuss1]

Who voted for federalism? Who voted for 4.5? It was all a idea of the TPLF and their station chief in Mogadishu a person by the name of Gabre. Who made his tea boy hsm carry out his work.

Who voted for it? No one voted for qabil states and their fake flags.

The only constitution that stands is the 1960 one.

The country is in constant perpetual turmoil because its administratively not well organized, the constitution is a unworkable tplf drafted document that has more holes than a Swiss cheese and there is no supreme or constitutional court to enforce anything. 

 

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

This is more fitting Gabre sawir:

[maakhiri1]

Who is the fat guy holding Gabre

[Illyria]

On 6/19/2023 at 5:39 AM, shuss1 said:

Who voted for federalism? Who voted for 4.5? It was all a idea of the TPLF and their station chief in Mogadishu a person by the name of Gabre. Who made his tea boy hsm carry out his work.

Who voted for it? No one voted for qabil states and their fake flags.

The only constitution that stands is the 1960 one.

The country is in constant perpetual turmoil because its administratively not well organized, the constitution is a unworkable tplf drafted document that has more holes than a Swiss cheese and there is no supreme or constitutional court to enforce anything.

It is problematic when one is unfamiliar with the history, political or otherwise of the nation, one wishes to provide political commentary as to its goings. Arta in 2000 where 4.5 was birthed, Eldoret in 2003 where federalism was adopted, and Xamar 2006 where reconciliation was attempted.

[Qurac&qansax]

On 6/19/2023 at 8:39 PM, shuss1 said:

Who voted for federalism? Who voted for 4.5? It was all a idea of the TPLF and their station chief in Mogadishu a person by the name of Gabre. Who made his tea boy hsm carry out his work.

Without Federalism and 4.5 somali would not have existed. The issue of Federalism and 4.5 is suppose to be "a means to the end not the end itself" . It suppose to be temporary not permanent and therefore we over used. That is the main problem.

The federal system will always be here, and if not here, definitely Puntland and Somaliland will be federal state and the rest centerlised. The 4.5, all Somalis agree it pass its expire date and 1q1c will get rid off it, just bee patient.

Somalis always blame the tool not the person using it. They blame qabiil and now Federal and 4.5. Our problem is the men who utilised those tools for their own gain, the tool has done nothing wrong to us.

[jamacabdi265]

7 hours ago, Qurac&qansax said:

Without Federalism and 4.5 somali would not have existed. The issue of Federalism and 4.5 is suppose to be "a means to the end not the end itself" . It suppose to be temporary not permanent and therefore we over used. That is the main problem.

The federal system will always be here, and if not here, definitely Puntland and Somaliland will be federal state and the rest centerlised. The 4.5, all Somalis agree it pass its expire date and 1q1c will get rid off it, just bee patient.

Somalis always blame the tool not the person using it. They blame qabiil and now Federal and 4.5. Our problem is the men who utilised those tools for their own gain, the tool has done nothing wrong to us.

Perhaps those tools have played a role in unlocking and unleashing power hungry man for this zero game and have distracted from the obvious need for a reconciliation. 

Political settlements, institutional structures and power sharing formulas should have been the results of a reconciliation process first. But now these adopted ‘tools’ are adding new causal factors to the conflict making things even more complicated to the extend one has created a wicked problem which is even more difficult or impossible to solve. 

 

[jamacabdi265]

And now imagine if the plans of Madasha go ahead and execute local elections throughout the country, further adding new and additionally bigger problems to the already existing issues.

Then one might not be discussing anymore who controls provinces like Gedo or Lower Shabbele, but more disputes and conflicts but this time in every single districts. 

That’s what you call organized irresponsibility, coming up with solutions without understanding and neither attempting to solve the actual original problems, leading to creating newer problems. 

Coming up with solutions or tools that neither solve or even partly contribute to solving the problems, is in fact only accumulating to the problem. 

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

18 hours ago, Illyria said:

It is problematic when one is unfamiliar with the history, political or otherwise of the nation, one wishes to provide political commentary as to its goings. Arta in 2000 where 4.5 was birthed, Eldoret in 2003 where federalism was adopted, and Xamar 2006 where reconciliation was attempted.

Actually it was in shirkii dib u heshiinta Qaahira in 1997 that was first suggested for 4.5. It didn't work, since especially Caydiid Yariisoow wanted laba koox loo kala qeybsado hoggaanka since his isbaariste group occupied a lot of regions.

[Illyria]

14 hours ago, Qurac&qansax said:

Somalis always blame the tool not the person using it. They blame qabiil and now Federal and 4.5. Our problem is the men who utilised those tools for their own gain, the tool has done nothing wrong to us.

This is a very good observation.

 

1 hour ago, Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar said:

Actually it was in shirkii dib u heshiinta Qaahira in 1997 that was first suggested for 4.5. It didn't work, since especially Caydiid Yariisoow wanted laba koox loo kala qeybsado hoggaanka since his isbaariste group occupied a lot of regions.

Could have been, albeit I read Abtidoon of Jibouti floated the idea much earlier, but the tensions on the ground, fueled by egos, were far too great to even consider. I was thinking more about when 4.5 was adopted as a model at Arta.

[Che -Guevara]

Federalism as we (Somalis) seem to understand does not work. The next stage is sub-clan and  level [Gedo, SSC, Hiiran, Awdal, etc.] Federalism created mini-dictators with very centralized admins.

We might as well go back to 18 regions and have decentralized government where people can elect their governors and mayors.

[Illyria]

In all fairness, I am in favour of Awdal, SSC, Hiiraan, and Gedo having own State stature, if so desires the people. Think about Delaware, which was carved up on religious grounds to protect the religious rights of the Dutch immigrants, and Dakotas, which had been split up into North and South along ethnicity lanes, Anglo vs Nordic. The federal configuration ought be adjustable to serve the interest of the people.

[Game changer]

4 hours ago, Illyria said:

In all fairness, I am in favour of Awdal, SSC, Hiiraan, and Gedo having own State stature, if so desires the people. Think about Delaware, which was carved up on religious grounds to protect the religious rights of the Dutch immigrants, and Dakotas, which had been split up into North and South along ethnicity lanes, Anglo vs Nordic. The federal configuration ought be adjustable to serve the interest of the people.

Those regions are owned by multiple clans. Their desires can not be fulfilled.   

 

 

 

[Arafaat]

On 6/21/2023 at 9:54 PM, Che -Guevara said:

Federalism as we (Somalis) seem to understand does not work. The next stage is sub-clan and  level [Gedo, SSC, Hiiran, Awdal, etc.] Federalism created mini-dictators with very centralized admins.

We might as well go back to 18 regions and have decentralized government where people can elect their governors and mayors.

I don’t think one can rationally discuss or decide with a clear rational mind on the appropriate state structure and institutions for the country, as long as there hasn’t been a genuine civic reconciliation to restore the relationships between people and spark a process of conflict transformation. 

A process not necessary to provide an immediate solutions on issues that give rise to the conflict, but rather a process that is intended to address in a pragmatic way the past injustices in order to restore the human relationships.  

An analogy; There is a reason why Doctors in general don’t operate patients who have a high fever, as the fever is a sign of an infection and compromised immune systems, and operating on a patient with an infection would increase the risk of further complications.

And hence why we need to first reduce the ‘fever’ by cooling down the social and inter-communal temperatures and feelings of animosity, resentment, hostility and bitterness. And only after then start thinking, discussing and decide on whatever solution or design for governance and state structures.