Sharon: Hero and Goat of Gaza

[xiinfaniin]

Terrorism is an immoral and illegitimate weapon of war. But the original sin that ignited this war was the illegal – indeed, insane – seizure of and settlement on Palestinian land, and the stubborn refusal by Israel to conclude a peace when they held the whip hand, which they will not hold forever. Read on.

 

Where there is no vision, the people perish.

[xiinfaniin]

Nomads;

As many prudent people anticipated the Zionist movement is confronted with the sheer irrationality of building their shallow state on the fringes of land that is not theirs. Establishing a modern suburban on the leafy hills of Gaza seems to have become a flight of imagination that has quickly evaporated before their eyes. The single-family homes with Mediterranean peach fronts are forever gone; the underlying theme of the saturated pictures that we’ve bombarded with. The irony is the robber is winning praises for succumbing to the realities and abandoning his evil plans.

 

But the bigger question I have is whether this is the beginning of the much-awaited Zionist crush or a tactical move that is going to prolong and delay the eventual defeat?

 

I have always believed that such gross injustice could never be sustained. And that it is a matter of time when this black dot in the modernity will receive a cleansing dose. The gathering of settlers has been to me a peculiar craziness from Zionist fanatics.

 

Vent if you will, but be sensible. Fill me in this, saaxiibayaal.

[Kashafa]

Though we all wish for the Zionists to go back to wherever the hell they came from(US/Europe/Africa), it doesn't look feasible. At least not in our lifetime. One glimmer of hope: Palestinians currently 'out-breed' the Israelis 2 to 1 (some say 3 to 1). If that trend continues, the so-called "Jewishness" of the State of Israel will be obsolete. Immigration has been zero to minimal in the past few years. Next Step: Making them give up East Jerusalam and our Holy Mosque.

[Castro]

Originally posted by Kashafa:

One glimmer of hope: Palestinians currently 'out-breed' the Israelis 2 to 1 (some say 3 to 1). If that trend continues, the so-called "Jewishness" of the State of Israel will be obsolete.

I used to think that too until I realized there will just be more Palestinians for the Israelis to oppress. Outbreeding is not going to cut it. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict will come to a head when there is not enough water for everyone in the region. This should take about 30-50 years. That's when all Palestinians and their sympathizers will be expelled from their land (lost some 60 years ago, by the way) to neighboring Jordan and Egypt. Something the Arabs should have done decades ago (i.e. accept their fellow Arabs for they will not defeat Israel). It sucks as an arrangement but its the most likely outcome.

[Legend of Zu]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

Nomads;

 

But the bigger question I have is whether this is the beginning of the much-awaited Zionist crush or a tactical move that is going to prolong and delay the eventual defeat?

 

Vent if you will, but be sensible. Fill me in this, saaxiibayaal.

This move by zionist is not as simple as it looks and certainly it is not uncalculated step..and it will be foolish to think this is the start of the eventual defeat you have mentioned.

 

However, I'll try to read the report indepth and provide my two cents.

 

Cheers

[Animal Farm]

It is unclear whether the pull out is a defeat for the Zionists – I think its part of a bigger plan to draw peace in the region. Politically, the Zionists have connections that reach into the most powerful states in the world. If the Palestinians continue their attacks, surely there will be more horrific retaliations, and this time, more justifiable than anything we’ve seen or heard in the past.

 

Palestinian leaders needs to establish strong holds in the region, increase police count, and military strengths – and use those forces when Israelis attempt to shock and awe its territory. But, its hard to battle against a regime that gets billions in military aid from the most powerful nation in the world.

 

Go read the current issue of the Atlantic Monthly on the cover it has Yasir Arafat and the title is >>>>In a Ruined Country

How Yasir Arafat destroyed Palestine. By David Samuels

[xiinfaniin]

Kashafa, you are right on. What the Palestinians could not achieve through weaponry they will sure make up by sheer numbers.

 

Fidel, if one formulates his/her thinking solely on apparent massive imbalance of power, one surely would arrive on the same conclusions as you did. But the lyrics, as it were, are better than the music and this is the beginning of the shoots of hope for Palestine. Don’t get mesmerized by the zeal and determination of these mindless Zionist, saaxiib. Remember about Algeria and S. Africa, saaxiib.

 

LZ, granted these are very complex issues but their thorniness should not obstruct you to see the looming defeat. The biblical prophecies failed to materialize and certainly settelers did not have and will never have a good night sleeps. The booty they sit on is indeed moldy!

[Baashi]

Awoowe Xiin,

Waxaad uga hartaa loomaba baahne hay naga baxo. The game is on and I think Bush is onto something. Despite all the hate and hawkish politics applied on the region, he may be the one who gives Palestenians state of their own - a viable one. That would be the day!

 

Buchanan is an interesting character. Far right conservative but has issues with the neocons and more interestingly with Christian Right!! Could it be he's Northern Catholic and Christian Right camp is dominated by Southern Baptists and Methodists? Makes you wonder?

[xiinfaniin]

Oday Baashow waxay taagantahay;

Allaylehe bagaa laysku dilay dad is-baran waaye!

May be they though Palestinians would quit in the end?

 

Wiilashii taangiyada lasoo siiyey have finally retreated. As to the Buchanan’s peculiar character, I admire his courage to speak against America’s support to this movement. Where the right went wrong, his critique of the war on Iraq is good read indeed.

 

P.S:And staying with your literary come back, all be it western one, the tone is not far from BB King’s ‘the thrill is gone’ and, as he says, ‘it is gone away for good.’

[Baashi]

^ the comeback has something to do with time signore Xiin. I've been busy u kno...the big shots demanded more deliverables be completed half the time we normally used to have -(with equal load).

 

On the subject, Awoowe remember Inna Kilwe Cawaale's memorable qoutes:

 

Bil dhalatay ma tiibaa?

Boholyoow ma ciil baa?

Ninka baadi kaa maqan,

Beylahshaa ma gacal baa?

 

Nin begsaday ma fulay baa?

Boqol aan u turihayn,

Kan beegsadaa ma geesaa?

 

Ninka bihinbis naageed,

Isku baraq nugleeyaa,

Bi'i waa ma door baa?

 

How am I doing on Somali side of things now

[xiinfaniin]

Nin begsaday ma fulay baa?

Boqol aan u turihayn,

Kan beegsadaa ma geesaa?

 

Nimanku gobonnimo (muslinimo) iyo laandheer-nimo bay isku darsadeen!

Haddii aanan daas weyn ka dhalan amase deyr xoog leh

Dibnaheyga waa xiran lahaa sida dad qaarkiise!

 

Their daring bravery is driven by conviction of victory. Ina Kilwa’s questions need not apply on this.

 

And trust thee, you are on top of it as always.

[Modesty]

One Palestinian said...the move will not make a difference because they're taking them from a smaller jail to a bigger jail where they can continue to oppress the native people of the land (a.k.a Palestinians). But, I really hope this at least helps the Palestinian people in a good way.Allahu Calam.

[NGONGE]

I thought you might like to read what some of those on the other side think.

Of course, what the author and many in the West neglect to mention is that while the withdrawals are being made in Gaza, building work is still continuing in the West Bank!

 

So much for it being the beginning of the end. They’re calling Abu Mazen’s bluff here. One wonders how the Palestinians will play the game now. The stakes are getting higher and higher every day.

 

 

August 24, 2005 A bloodless victory over fanaticismAMOS OZThe Gaza clearance is only the first step in Israel’s struggle between Synagogue and State

 

 

THE JEWISH settlers of Gaza and in the West Bank have a dream for the future of Israel. I also have a dream for the future of Israel. But their sweet dream is my nightmare, whereas my dreams look to them as poison. The settlers’ dream is to create a “Greater Israel†with Jewish settlements wall-to-wall. In these settlements only Jews can reside, whereas Palestinians can only come for work, doing the simple, low-paid jobs. In such a state, democracy will have to bow to the rabbis. The Knesset, the government, the Supreme Court, will be allowed to continue to exist, provided that the rabbis approve of their decisions. The settlers believe that once Greater Israel becomes a religious entity and a “Holy Nationâ€, the Messiah will come and the redemption of the Jewish people will materialise.

 

 

In this fantasy there is no place for the Palestinian people except as humble servants and grateful labourers. Moreover, in the settlers’ fantasy there is no place for me, there is no place for secular, modern Israel. My friends and I are “out†unless we repent. At least we are not supposed to stand in the way of building more settlements and increasing the existing ones. If we, secular Israelis, erase our own existence, the settlers will shower us with brotherly love. But if we insist that we have a different vision for Israel, we immediately become traitors, Arab-lovers or even Nazis.

But we, too, have a dream for Israel, totally different from the settlers’ religious fantasy. We want to live in peace and in freedom, not under the rule of the rabbis, not even under the rule of the Messiah, but under our own elected government.

We have a dream of being free from the lasting occupation of the Palestinian territories. Israel and Palestine, for almost 40 years, are like a jailer and a prisoner, handcuffed to each other. After so many years there is almost no difference — the jailer is not free and the prisoner is not free. Israel will only be a free nation when the occupation and the settlements are terminated and Palestine becomes an independent next-door country.

For 30 years the settlers controlled Israel through various governments. They pushed forward their vision and trampled over our dreams. They were the lords of the country. These days Ariel Sharon, the Prime Minister, tries to launch a kind of putsch against the rule of the settlers. This is an attempt to restore the authority of the elected government. If this works, the dream of the settlers may be blocked and the vision of the secular Israelis may be revived.

The struggle in Gaza was not essentially a struggle between the army and the settlers, not even between hawks and doves. No. It was a struggle between Church and State (to be more accurate, between Synagogue and State). This is something many nations have experienced: what should be the position and the influence of religion and of clerics in the business of running a country? Some countries have sorted this out centuries ago. Other nations have been struggling with it endlessly. The Muslim world, with the exception of Turkey, has not even begun.

During these past days in Gaza we have been witnessing what might prove to be the first battle between Synagogue and State in Israel, the first showdown over the nature of the Jewishness of the only Jewish state. Are we first and foremost a religion, or are we first and foremost a nation?

In this first round it looks like secular, rational, pragmatic Israel painfully prevails over fanatic Israel. But let us not forget that this is only the first round.

Both the settlers and the rest of us Israelis can be proud that, unlike the very bloody wars between Church and State in many countries throughout history, this first round in Gaza has so far been violent but not bloody. There was a lot of sound and fury, but not a massacre. Will it be like this in the next rounds? Will it be like this when the time comes to give up the West Bank and east Jerusalem in return for peace with the Palestinians? These questions depend not only on the Israelis, religious and secular, hawks and doves, right-wing and left-wing. These questions depend very much on the Palestinians’ response. Would Palestine regard all of this as a bold Israeli step towards an historical compromise with them? Will they reciprocate by taking bold steps against their own fanatics? Or will they regard the clashes between Jews and Jews as a first syndrome of Israel’s disintegration and try to inflame the situation by launching a fresh wave of terrorism?

The old Arabic proverb goes: you cannot clap with one hand. A lot depends now on how the Palestinians interpret the struggle between Jews and Jews in Gaza.

Amos Oz is author of Help Us to Divorce: Israel & Palestine, Between Right and Right

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1072-1747807,00.html

[Paragon]

Baashi iyo Xiin, sideey wax u jiraan, dadku illeen laan-dheernimo darteed u ma wada dhoolla caddeeyaane? Geesinimaduse laga wada siman

 

Back to the topic.. Don't you think Sharon is just doing a switch of lands while having the apartheid wall in mind? He has already made clear (last night) that no other evictions of jews will take place from now on, even in other occupied areas. The expansion to other palestinian villages had begun. The BBC showed us areas (still in palestinian hands) around which Sharons wishes to encircle with his disasterous wall.

[xiinfaniin]

Modesty, we all hope that.

 

Syed Ngonge, yours is very good read; other side of the coin. When the Zionists come back to their senses and give up the biblical prophesies the two communities will naturally coexist as they were before the madness begun.

 

Jamaal11, runtaa weeye awoowe laakiin gaaladu gob maaha. Nin gunihina geesi maaha, saaxiib.

 

You are absolutely right though the old butcher still harbors his evil intents. But don’t you think it is a mission impossible. Israel is a welfare state with very limited resources and it will all be about economics. Add on top of that the ever-increasing Palestinian resistance. Time is essence here, saaxiib.