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You can label me whatever you want folks, "brain washed and what not"

You're simply SOL's Papa Bear. Hence the Sly Fox rhetoric.


ps read about who broke the truce and the Gaza situation for the past year or so before expressing your opinion.

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Originally posted by LayZie G.:

DryPaint, why the sad face?


I expected more from you, perhaps you should have shed light on this renewed conflict but as always you leave me no choice but to take matters into my own hands.


I assume Dry Paint is me! Oh darling, we never even chitchatted in PM yet and you're already giving me loving pet names? Wan so socda, macaanto. Es diyaari icon_razz.gif



As for the situation in Gaza and making comments on this latest episode, well, what new thing could I say that has not been said in the past FIFTY years of occupation?


Instead, I posted a poem written in 1957 and talking about the perils of trusting Israeli overtures of peace. The poem takes the form of an advice being given by an old refugee father to his young son. He says:


I, son, shall be engulfed by the twilight

For nothing remains of my life but just one last gasp

And the remains of a heart that spent most of its life in worry

The lantern shown brightly once but it eventually died down

And its hopes dried up to the point of suffocation



So, as you dust off the sands of my grave from your hand

And go ahead trying to find your way to your future

Remember the advice of a father under the sand

One who was deprived of the hopes of old age and youth


Our tragedy is the misfortune of an innocent population

And a story that has misery boiling in all its lines

A story that splashed the smell of blood all over the horizon


I never aggressed nor had you reserved as an aggressor

Apart from a longed for revenge that springs from right here

Amongst my ribs (this revenge) became my overriding desire

I was thirsting for its fulfilment all my life

But I eventually died without even a drop (of it becoming reality)



We had a house and we had a home

But the hands of treachery frittered them away

I personally paid the highest price just to salvage them (both)

With these hands of mine I buried your brother without a kafan


Yet I would have done more if it weren't for my old age and weakness


Son, if I ever allowed my tears to trickle down my face

It's because I was forced to cope with two great losses

These two gaping wounds on my side; a dead son and exile; a lost son and an occupied land



He goes on to describe their occupied land to his son and remind him of the old days when they used to walk in the valleys of Haifa (city). He encourages him to return and fight for the freedom of his country. He then says:


They'll talk to you, o son, about peace

NEVER listen to such empty rhetoric

NEVER be like a child that gets tricked by bedtime promises until he falls asleep

There is no such thing as peace here and the dust of surrender shall never leave your face



I believed them once and ended up in a refugee camp

And my food was whatever charitable people had in excess

It was lobbed my way and the way of other hungry refugees


Their peace, son, is treachery

And their promised security is a mirage

It only spreads destruction and ruin in our land


Don't cry, son, for the eyes of our oppressors don't cry

This has been the story of tyranny from the dawn of history


Return to a land where the mere stones are treasures

A land that I wished to have died on its soil



So, as you dust of the sands of my grave from your hands

And go ahead trying to find your way to your future

Remember the advice of a parent under the sand

One who was deprived of the hopes of old age, or youth



Of course, I do the poem a great injustice with my hasty and inadequate translation but I do hope you at least get the gist of it.




Hamas and the Palestinians (for both are one and the same) have nothing to lose here. Yes it is shocking that Israel is bombarding them in such a way and that there are countless deaths in just ONE DAY. However, even if Israel were not bombing them, the deaths would have continued regardless. These are people that LIVE under occupation and have done so for fifty years. They know who their enemy is and they, most certainly, know how to retaliate in kind.


I would rather discuss the folly of Somalis to be honest. The Gaza people get nothing but utter respect from me.

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^good reading there DP.(reer magaalnimadeyda maka heshay? Thanks for trying to translate it for me)


At times like this is when I wished my parents enrolled me in arabic school during my residence in egypt instead of A private english school, that way I dont have to rely on your words.



Mr Tactic, what part of the 5 children from the same family were wiped out in gaza while you were cheering "LONG LIVE HAMAS" in your livingroom did you not understand?


If you dont have anything significant to contribute, I ask that you use some restraint.(all that you described above is part of the oppression I spoke off, nothing new there.)


Marx, I am glad you mentioned the demonstrations and the arrests that took place. I think the poster might have been one of them and she will need someone to bail her out. Haye, lacag haleysku daro. The only thing those carafat cimaamad wearing youths accomplished in the last couple of days is getting arrested and being on every news broadcast, thats it.


Lastly, north, this circling around on issues and missing the heart of my argument is just childish. If you can't engage in proper discussion, why bother addressing me?


My views are based on the long history of the region that dates back to the early 20thcentury, something you are probably unfamiliar with since most just reference the last 50yrs and forget the long bloodshed of the region. This past year's events is nothing compare to how it all started. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you read excerpt here and there or DP might have shared his version but whatever the case is, it is you that needs to do the reading of the long, ongoing conflict that DID NOT START THIS PAST YEAR(as u stated, whats more important to you is the events of 08) my dear secessioner.



PS:put that soccer ball down and grab a book once in a while


Pss:Abuu, try reading jp(jerusalem post),haartez(or however u spell that paper) etc and dont just read one paper's version of the story.

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^Give me a break woman. Your previous posts are there for all to see and now you're an expert who has already given us a concise history lesson as to the dynamics of the conflict.


You simply blamed Hamas for firing rockets into Israel. In other words following the line the western media has been walking. To cap it all off you refer Abu Diaby to the Jeresalam Post etc which only goes to proves my point. You're a product of watching Fox News.


You give hard headedness a totally new meaning.


NG, thanks for the translation.

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^listen, you thick skulled secessioner, did you or did you not read the part where I used the "if" the reports are true?


You want to read what you want to read and you skip the parts that are vital, so maxaan kuu sheegaa?



Did hamas not fire rockets first?


Furthermore, I never claimed that one side was innocent, no one is innocent in this conflict. Please, next time, waxa aan qoro aqri, hadii kale meel iska fadhiiso.



FYI, I was just reading nytimes and there is a 48hr cease-fire on the side of the yahuuda, and guess what I came across? a link to the ny editorial page of an article that summed up waxa aan meesha niku wardinaaye.

War over Gaza


I read newsweek etc, everyone has an opinion. What is wrong with reading JP? You should try getting out of your comfort zone once in a while.



PS:You are still clueless north and stop the marmarsiyo.(u think like an arab)

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Miss Bil-kiss is back with no better cause than this: Marx and Lzygal,1st of all say La illaaha illa Allah -read this for re-education once you have said this then, read the following in order to trully understand the rights you brothers and sisters in Islam have over you. It really hurts that you can judge so freely when you have all the comforts in the world.


Ps trying to be a devil's advocate,you are not succeeding, but only looking silly. :mad:



Islamic Brotherhood





It is related byabu Musa Ash'ari (radiAllahu anhu) that The Messengerof Allah said "The connection between Muslims is like that of a strong building - one part strengthens another." The Prophet then showed this by interlocking the fingers of one hand with those of the other (that muslims should remain united and combined - thereby streghthening one another).



In the above hadith, by enlikening Muslim unity to a strong building, the Holy Prophet has in effect urged the Ummah to form a fortress by uniting where each Muslim will be a "brick" and the closeness and coherence amongst Muslims should be like that of bricks in a building. He then demonstrated, interlocking the fingers of both hands that the Muslims should remain together and blend into a single body.



In a hadith, narrated by Nu'man ibn Bashir (radiALlahu anhu) the Prophet is reported to have said that

"The Muslims (the Ummah) are like the limbs of a man, where if the eye hurts the whole body feels pain and if the head hurts, the whole body feels pain and suffering."



This hadith, also seeks to emphasize the desired unity of the Ummah. "All for one and one for all" should be the Muslims' motto. They should be prepared to assist one another and even share the sorrows and problems of each other. In fact, in yet another hadith mention is made of the fact thatjust as it is necessary for a believer (muslim) to be loyal and devoted to Allah, the Holy Prophet ,the Holy Qur'an and the Islamic government; it is an essential condition, for being a faithful Believer, not to remain indifferent to the difficulties and problems of the Muslims but to take a genuine interest in them.


As related by Huzaifah (radiAllahu anhu) the Prophet said

"Whoever does not take an interest in the affairs and problems of the Muslims, he is not of them. And whoever's state is such that, each morning and evening, he is not loyal and earnest to Allah, his Apostle, His Book, the Islamic ruler and towards the Muslims, as a whole, he is not of them."


The Holy Prophet was so stem with regards to the mutual relat ion ship of Muslims, that he even took pledges for brotherly feeling and sincerity towards. all muslims.



It is related by Jabir ibn Abdullah (radiAllahu anhu) that he said "I had taken a pledge at the hand of Rasuluilah to observe Swallah (prayers), to pay Zakah (charity due) and to be a sincere well-wisher of every Muslim." The Fact that the Prophet took the pledge or promise from the companions, for being a sincere well - wisher of the Muslims together with that of observing Swalaah and Zakah which are important pillars of Islam - shows the importance attached by him to the matter.



Besides the general kind treatment, brotherly love etc. to be extended to fellow Muslims, there are certain specific rights and claims to be fulfilled. It is related by Abu Hurairah (radiAllahu anhu) that the Prophet said,

"There are five claims of a Muslim upon a Muslim: to return his greetings when he greets; to visit him when he falls ill; to attend his funeral; to accept his invitation to a meal and to pray for him, when he sneezes, by saying'yarhamukallah'(May the mercy of Allah be on you)."

[Note that another hadith mentions six claims of one Muslim upon another]



The five things mentioned in the hadith a reacts which not only give expression to, but also promote brotherly feelings between Muslims and therefore special attention should be paid to them. In another report, some other acts are specified too-which shows that the claims described here are by way of example only and not conclusive.



Anas (radiAllahu anhu) reports that Rasulullah once said "I swear by the Holy Being in whose power my life is, any one of you cannot be a true believer unless he desires for his fellow-brother what he desires for himself."



To feel earnestly for a Muslim brother, to the extent of preferring for him what one prefersforoneself has been classed asa prerequisite forcomplete faith. So, anyone who claims to be a Muslim, but is lacking in this aspect, he in fact does not possess the reality of Faith (iman).



A principal feature of the Holy Prophet 's teachings is the emphasis upon every class, group or individual to fulfil the rights of others, with a full sense of responsiblity, and consider it a source of good fortune in both worlds.



May Allah the Almighty grant us all, the understanding and the guidance to fulfil our rights and duties to one anottyer, in the mannerthat has been explained to us by the Holy Prophet and may He create the bond of true and Sincere Unity betiween us all.


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Originally posted by Che -Guevara:

Don't understand why people are huffing and puffing :confused:

If one's brain can not comprehend the severity of the situation then I suggest that one gets a life......

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^^ Keep your masar on, dear. I doubt if he meant it in that way.



Since you claim to be an expert on the Middle East conflict, why don't you try to educate the poor souls like myself and Norf? icon_razz.gif

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Oh and here is an article (let the debate rage on).




From The TimesDecember 30, 2008


That's enough pointless outrage about Gaza


The trouble is that we have no idea what the arguments inside Hamas are or how they are affected by Israeli actions


David Aaronovitch


Let's have a pointless discussion about Gaza and begin it by talking about whether Israel's bombing is “disproportionate”.


To illustrate the meaninglessness of such a debate let us attempt to agree what “proportionate” would look like.


Would it be best if Israel were to manufacture a thousand or so wildly inaccurate missiles and then fire them off in the general direction of Gaza City? There is a chance, though, that since Gaza is more densely packed than Israel, casualties might be much the same as they are now, so although the ordnance would be proportionate, the deaths would not. Of course, if one of Gaza's rockets did manage to hit an Israeli nursery school at the wrong time (or the right time, depending upon how you look at it), then the proportionality issue would be solved in one explosion. Would you be happy then?


This is not about proportionality. Let us instead express outrage and, perhaps, illustrate it with pictures of crowds of similarly outraged protesters in Damascus, Amman or Indonesia. Let half of us concoct round-robins of suddenly active professors, Gallowegian politicians and unthinking actors, expressing hyberbolic rage at “genocide”, describing Gaza as Israel's Guernica and demanding sanctions, while the other half wonders why no petitions ever get launched against the funders and organisers of, say, the suicide bomber in Khost at the weekend, who blew up his vehicle beside a group of passing Afghan schoolchildren; or against the Taleban cleric threatening last week to kill female students in Pakistan for their un-Islamic desire to learn.


This is not about outrage. We could then, perhaps, from the other side, attempt to suggest Israel's moral superiority on the basis that, unlike the careless firers of Qassam rockets, any civilian casualties caused by Israel's bombs were the unintended victims of its actions, however many of them there are. Israel takes care with its targeting, they don't. But the eight students killed by a bus stop in Gaza are just as dead, their families just as bereft, and their feelings towards the originators of the bombs just as compounded of hate and regret.


So this is not about moral superiority. Perhaps we could now try to have a discussion with a point. Will the Israeli action advance or hinder any movement towards a long-term solution in the area, or have we all given up on that (in which case expressions of anything very much seem not just irrelevant, but irritating)? Will it, in the long term, relieve Israeli citizens from the threat of arbitrary extinction? I'm pretty sure it will help in the short term. I cannot easily see what it accomplishes in the longer run.


While we debate the gap between Israeli policy intentions and their outcomes, it is worth stopping for a moment to consider what the calculations of Hamas may have been in recent months. When Hamas refused to renew the Egyptian-brokered ceasefire ten days ago, and then when it allowed a series of rocket attacks on Israel, what did its leadership think was likely to happen? We know that it was warned by both Egypt and its Fatah rivals that there would be an Israeli reaction, but did Hamas believe such warnings were exaggerated, or did it want there to be such an attack? Unlike the Israeli Government, whose representatives have been all over the media in the past two days, at the time of writing not one Hamas bigwig had put himself up for interrogation.


This is the great lacuna in our conversation about Gaza and Palestine. We simply have no idea what the arguments inside Hamas are, and how they are affected by Israeli actions. It is as possible to believe that the bombing of Gaza will strengthen hardliners as it is that they will be sufficiently weakened to allow a ceasefire. We just don't know.


What we shouldn't do is fall into the easy analytical trap of designating Hamas as an al-Qaeda equivalent, however much its anti-Jewish propaganda and dedication to martyrdom disgusts us. In any long-term solution a large section of Hamas's current support, and a not insignificant part of its membership, would have to be won over to the side of peace.


The historian Tom Segev, writing in the Israeli newspaper, Haaretz, yesterday reminded readers that “all of Israel's wars have been based on yet another assumption that has been with us from the start: that we are only defending ourselves”, but that “no military operation has ever advanced dialogue with the Palestinians”. He wasn't saying that Israel hadn't the right to stop the rockets from being fired from Gaza, but that it would get the larger process precisely nowhere.


Adamant though I am about the need to combat Islamist violence, it is hard not to see Western and Israeli policy towards Gaza since Israel's unilateral withdrawal in 2005 as one huge strategic error. There was the refusal to deal with the Hamas Government elected in January 2006, the siding with Fatah in the subsequent internal dispute, the imposition of an effective blockade on Gaza that amounted to collective punishment. The capacity of Hamas to govern, or fail to govern, in the eyes of the Palestinians was thus never tested.


In some ways this policy towards Hamas, though wrong, was understandable. But the failure of Israel to proceed in any substantial way with easing the conditions for Palestinians on the Fatah-controlled West Bank, or the commencement of a policy of dismantling West Bank settlements before an agreement, meant that no encouragement was given to the opponents of Hamas either.


The message that has been given out to Palestinians, time and again, is that there is no clear advantage to be gained from being moderate. It has been all stick and no carrot, to the frustration of those, such as Tony Blair, who have tried to create some impetus towards peace.


But why speak about such things when we can hold up placards equating Jews with Nazis, emote over dead babies or talk tough about defending Israeli citizens? It was Shimon Peres, the Israeli President, who said that, far from there being no light at the end of the Middle East tunnel, there was indeed light. The trouble was that there was no tunnel. Bit by bit, inducement by bribe and ceasefire by restraint, we have to construct one.


If we are to do this then the friends of the Palestinians would be best advised to put pressure on Hamas never to launch another of its bloody rockets and to stop its death-laden rhetoric, and the friends of Israel well placed to cajole it into making a settlement seem worthwhile. All else is verbiage.

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Massacre is what the Zionist state is good at! She has done it before and she will do it again. It does approach a miracle how the poor Palestinians continue to survive under the Zionist savagery.

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Originally posted by NGONGE:



Since you claim to be an expert on the Middle East conflict, why don't you try to educate the poor souls like myself and Norf?

Her references would be interesting to see.


LG in her first post:


I'm uneasy about this renewed fighting and perhaps there is some truth to the reports that the Hamas group was using the six months ceasefire as way to regroup and reload. If this report has any truth to it then damnation is with those groups called hamas.

It is obvious you're basing your opinion on reports from one side (the Israeli side) without trying to dig deep enough. If you're such an expert on the Palestian situation and keep abreast of the goings on in Gaza then you would have read the following:


Gaza truce broken as Israeli raid kills six Hamas gunmenRory McCarthy in Jerusalem,
Wednesday 5 November 2008
14.32 GMT Article history


A four-month ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza was in jeopardy today after Israeli troops killed six Hamas gunmen in a raid into the territory.


Hamas responded by firing a wave of rockets into southern Israel, although no one was injured. The violence represented the most serious break in a ceasefire agreed in mid-June, yet both sides suggested they wanted to return to atmosphere of calm.


Israeli troops crossed into the Gaza Strip late last night near the town of Deir al-Balah. The Israeli military said the target of the raid was a tunnel that they said Hamas was planning to use to capture Israeli soldiers positioned on the border fence 250m away. Four Israeli soldiers were injured in the operation, two moderately and two lightly, the military said.


One Hamas gunman was killed and Palestinians launched a volley of mortars at the Israeli military. An Israeli air strike then killed five more Hamas fighters. In response, Hamas launched 35 rockets into southern Israel, one reaching the city of Ashkelon.


"This was a pinpoint operation intended to prevent an immediate threat," the Israeli military said in a statement. "There is no intention to disrupt the ceasefire, rather the purpose of the operation was to remove an immediate and dangerous threat posted by the Hamas terror organisation."


In Gaza, a Hamas spokesman, Fawzi Barhoum, said the group had fired rockets out of Gaza as a "response to Israel's massive breach of the truce".


"The Israelis began this tension and they must pay an expensive price. They cannot leave us drowning in blood while they sleep soundly in their beds," he said.


The attack comes shortly before a key meeting this Sunday in Cairo when Hamas and its political rival Fatah will hold talks on reconciling their differences and creating a single, unified government. It will be the first time the two sides have met at this level since fighting a near civil war more than a year ago.


Until now it had appeared both Israel and Hamas, which seized full control of Gaza last summer, had an interest in maintaining the ceasefire. For Israel it has meant an end to the daily barrage of rockets landing in southern towns, particularly Sderot. For Gazans it has meant an end to the regular Israeli military raids that have caused hundreds of casualties, many of them civilian, in the past year. Israel, however, has maintained its economic blockade on the strip, severely limiting imports and preventing all exports from Gaza.


Ehud Barak, the Israeli defence minister, had personally approved the Gaza raid, the Associated Press said. The Israeli military concluded that Hamas was likely to want to continue the ceasefire despite the raid, it said. The ceasefire was due to run for six months and it is still unclear whether it will stretch beyond that limit.



This is the second time I'm telling you not believe everything you're told at face value. God save objective/critical thinking!

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All hotels in Dubai told to cancel New Year celebrations

Staff Report

Last updated: December 31, 2008, 12:05



Dubai: All hotels in Dubai have been told to cancel New Year celebrations, following an order issued by His Highness Shaikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai, on Tuesday, Gulf News has learnt.


Shaikh Mohammad has ordered the cancellation of all forms of celebrations marking the New Year in Dubai, as an act of solidarity with the Palestinian people, WAM reported on Tuesday.


In support of the Palestinians in Gaza, who are enduring all kinds of killing, destruction and displacement by the Israeli military machinery, Shaikh Mohammad instructed all concerned authorities in Dubai to put this order in place and take necessary procedures to circulate the decision to all concerned parties.





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Hotels and event companies in Dubai are holding meetings on Wednesday to discuss the implementation of Shaikh Mohammad's order to cancel New Year celebrations.


According to the order, which WAM reported on Tuesday, Dubai will mark the New Year with a "sombre tone" as a token of solidarity with the Palestinian people in general and Gaza Strip in particular, which is currently under the barrage of Israeli's military fire.


Hotels, including the Burj Al Arab, Jumeirah Beach Hotel and the Madinat Jumeirah said top executives would be holding meetings later on Wednesday.


The Cellar, Aviation Club, say they are discussing what they plan to do and will make a decision by 1pm.


As of 11.30am on Wednesday, Barasti at the Meridien Mina Seyahi, Atlantis Hotel, Palm Jumeirah and the Harbour Hotel and Residence say they will be making an announcement later on Wednesday. .html


Looks like it will a 'dry night' (usually reserved for religious holidays) in terms of bars and hotels serving alcohol.

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