Xamar: tartan Quran akhris abaal-marin qaali ah 'sawirro'

[Polanyi]

Originally posted by Tuujiye:

^^^ Kaalay naxdin sooma'aha in ee dibada joogaan dad fikradaha al-shabaab raacsan? saaxiibo walaahi waa wax lala yaabo runtii.. Weeba isla quman yihiin oo wey u doodayaan! laaxowla walaa quwata! war ilaahey ka cabsada ama baxa taga somaliya ee Al-shabaab raaca! qashimiin qashiim kala jirin...

 

 

Wareer Badanaa!!!

Fair enough, laakin, WHat about the sub- xoolo who live in the west, but are saying that AMISOM has the right shell Bakara Market when Alshabab attacks them in some far off place? The other day Alshabab attacked the airport, so AMISOM responded by shelling Bakara Market. Are the sub- Xoolo saying that AMISOM can kill SOmali civilians anywhere in Muqdisho everytime they are attacked? Secondly, if they are saying AMISOM is doing the same thing as Alshabab, then why can't they criticise them or even say they killed civilians? On the contrary, we see the sub-xoolo in this thread justifying what AMISOM is doing.

[N.O.R.F]

Simple questions Karl, what is the difference between AS killing civilians (at the airport) and AMISOM killing civilians (in Bakara market)? What gives AS the right to do what they do? Is this Islamically correct? Bal ka soo fakar.

 

Ps I don’t want you to diverge away from these questions. I want you to answer in a clear and concise manner.

[Malika]

^Good questions.

[Polanyi]

Originally posted by N.O.R.F:

Simple questions Karl, what is the difference between AS killing civilians (at the airport) and AMISOM killing civilians (in Bakara market)? What gives AS the right to do what they do? Is this Islamically correct? Bal ka soo fakar.

 

Ps I don’t want you to diverge away from these questions. I want you to answer in a clear and concise manner.

It was only a few days ago, that General Bahoku, the leader of AMISOM challenged Alshabab to stop being cowards, stop hiding behind civilians and come meet his forces stationed at the airport. They came good. AMISOM later shelled the far away Bakara Market, as they usual do, to collectively punish the population. Sxb, are you too blind to see the difference:

 

 

a- a non muslim, occupying, african mecenary force- shelling nearly every district in Muqdisho when the people who attacked them are only a few hundred yards away.

 

b= Muslims who accidentally and unintentionally killed civilians who were in the vicinity of AMISOM. This group always urges civilians to steer clear from AMISOM areas.

 

Islamically, supporting the former with their objectives is a an act which can take a person from the fold of Islam. The vast majority of Muslim jurists are agreed upon this. This is an issue of disbelief, hypocrisy or at least major sinning. The latter group are people who commited something tragically unavoidable, which happened even during the time of the prophet and more likely to happen today due to modern warfare. The Ulema say this is an issue of the lesser versus the greater evil( In this case occupation vs. civilians getting caught up). Different answers can be given in different contexts. It is a really a decision for the people on the ground their to decide. The best we can can say that Alshabab are reckless in some of their actions and too often civilians get caught up in their attacks. But to say that they are shelling civilians or purposely targeting them like AMISOM is a great injustice which has no proof. Ironically, when Shariff's ICU were trying to drive the Ethiopians from Muqdisho, sometimes their shells accidentally hit civilians, yet you didn't say there is no difference between ICU fighters and Ethiopian occupation forces, why? Lastly, why was AMISOM criminals when Shariff was not in power and today they are not:

 

 

AMISOM spokesman has claimed that the troops were defending themselves from the attack of some insurgent group(s)!! But the available evidence regarding the directions and the

distance of the shelling does not support this argument. It is obvious that AMISOM had used unnecessary force and targeted heavily populated quarters and markets far away from the fighting area(s) which can only be taken as a deliberate mass killing .Monday, 29 September 2008 . Shaikh Sharif Shaikh Ahmed

Chairman, ARS

?

[N.O.R.F]

Saxib, iga daa the selective verses and the guilt trip.

 

I’m sure bombing a university graduation ceremony was accidental and unintentional.

 

This is a very simple discussion. All I want from you is to confirm whether or not AS’ actions are in line with Islam. I can also point to numerous occasions, pick out various statements, refer to the Quran and ahadeeth (showing where AS are wrong), refer to what the Somali Ulama have agreed upon with regard to AS etc etc.

 

I’m not defending or justifying AMISOM’s actions. I just want a straight answer from you, Red or Maadeey.

 

Are AS’ actions (take the university graduation ceremony as an example), in accordance with Islam (that was not accidental)?

 

Forget AMISOM, forget the TFG, forget the Ethios, forget any alleged stance I held previously, forget everything. Just answer the above question.

[The Zack]

Norf, Karl will not give a straight answer. He will never do so. When you ask him about apples he will tell you about oranges. The Khawaariij of Ali's era were twisting the ahadeeth just like he is doing today. He is almost saying, in islam its OK to kill more than 20 civilians just to take out 3 Somali MP's.

 

Try Maaddeey, he is more understanding and understandable.

 

Karl, Lying is Xaram, nobody will buy your BS of "AMISOM are shelling location X when they are being attacked from location Y or Z". Let's see a better lie from your "on the ground" sources.

[Maaddeey]

Karl, Lying is Xaram, nobody will buy your BS of "AMISOM are shelling location X when they are being attacked from location Y or Z". Let's see a better lie from your "on the ground" sources.

Zack, yaa kuu sheegay iney been tahay? TFG'da ayaa sheegta mar walba, Oo shariif baa markii Madaxweyne noqday sheegay, Tarzan baa dorraad sheegay oon soo quote'gareeyey.

 

Norf, are you immune from answers, sida aad jawaab nooga rabto ayaan kaaga rabnaa.

 

Karl, si wangaasan buu kuugu jawaabay, jawaabta aad raadineysidna way ku dhexjirtaa ee miyir isu yeel muranka intaad iska deysid.

[The Zack]

Maaddeey,

 

Adeerow sooma ogid inaan Xamar wacno every week if not every day? Tarzan, Shariifka iyo Shabaab toona warkooda war sax ah ma aha, waa siyaasiin wada been badan. Alshabaab baasuuko bey kasoo ridaan goobaha shacabku degan yahiin AMISOM-na hoobiye ayey ugu jawaabtaa oo goobta wax kasoo dhaceen ku riddaa ayagoon u aabo yeelin dadka meesha degan. Kadib af hayeenka Alshabaab baa saxaafadda la hadla oo yiraahdo "gaalada 4 baan ka dilnay, ayaguna 200 oo rayid ah bey dileen" asagoo og iney shacabkaaas dhibka ayagu u sababeen.

[N.O.R.F]

Maad,

 

Jawaabta aan indin ka hely is 'the civilians dying is a necessary effect' (you have all acknowledged AS are wreckless). This is not Islamically correct (far from it). But somehow you still argue they're on the right side of Islam. My friend, the two (AS' actions and Islam), cannot be reconciled (irrespective of all the other AMISOM and TFG issues).

[Maaddeey]

^If you know we acknowledged, waxa kale ood rabto waa maxay?. Islam 'pure' ah miyaad qarniga 21aad sugeysay?. Inaad isla mee dhigto Amisom & Shabaab waa 'far from Islam' AFANAJCALUL MUSLIMIINA KAL MUJRIMIIN, MAALAKUM KAYFA TAXKUMUUN!.

[N.O.R.F]

Wax islama haysid dhe heh

[Cawaale]

N.O.R.F, there's an old Somali saying that says “Nin meeli u caddahay, meeli ka madow”. waxba ha isku daalinin.

[Polanyi]

NORF, i gave you an answer those with intellect can understand. If you where not satisfied with it, then let us agree to disagree.

 

 

this is the correct surah

 

Zack, lying is a sin. But you support gaalamodw forces who occupied and daily cleanse the population of Muqdisho. Bal, weigh up both actions according to the Shariah and tell me which is worser.

[N.O.R.F]

You're answer was along the lines of AS' actions being justified because they are fighting an occupying force. You're yet to show me how this is Islamically correct. You're using an Ayah in a Surah that is irrelevant to what we're discussing. Why not quote one of the Ayahs and ahadeeths regarding the conduct in war and jihad? Selective Islam miya?

 

As for intellect and what not, slinging mud in discussions only shows you're inability to put forth your argument clearly. Throw in an ayah here and there and WALLA.

 

Cawaale, a simple question saxib. 6 pages later and they're still avoiding to answer it.

[Maaddeey]

^Adiga su'aalaha kuma qabtaan hayeh?.