^^^The days of the old are gone Viks. The leaders that we have to day are shoddy at best and dictators at worst. Mwalimu is by far the one that I think deserves spotlight. Under his leadership Tz troops ousted Idi Amin and more than that he was proud of his culture to the point of promoting the use of Swahili. It wouldn't be fair not to mention another positive african leader in the East. Baba wa Taifa was a visionary in his own class. Nkurumah made Ghana into a poor country by trying to industralize the country when cocoa was its claim to fame not to mention he turned dictatorial after the people saw what he was doing to their country. Apart from knowing influential people during his time I didn't see any lasting good he did to his country.

Viks, If we were to receed to our texts we would see that Khilafa (government of Islamic state) is fard kifaya and Khalifa is the head of a Khilafa. I wouldn't think in this day of age we would even be able to have a Khilafa let alone a Khalifa. Khalifa can be selected by the majilis, nominated by previous Khalifa or by force. The Majilis (your council of scholars) would actually be the one selecting the Khalifa in this case. The Majilis like you said would be a set number of experts in life(doctors/engineers et al), knowledgable in religion, just, leaders of diff tribes who are respected and obeyed.They in turn would be elected by the people.I should state that if the people were unhappy with the choice of Khalifa then they had to challenge his appoinment through the Majilis. (So far so good sounds pretty democractic to me) Who then would be selecting the interpreters and applicators of the law? And for that matter who would police the police? Talking earlier with someone on the topic I was enlightened to a hadeeth (if its saheeh or not I am not sure) . I will paraphrase it till I can find out for sure IA. It states that if two muslim scholars with same knowledge,after consulting the Quran and Sunnah, come to two different conclusions then both their conclusions would be right and should therefore come to a consensus that is not at odds with the Quran and Sunnah.I do believe this is a form of Qiyaas. Would that play a role in passing of verdict? What is the measuring tool for telling who is more knowledgable? Xiinfaniinow I doubt I have barely even tapped into the database that most SOLers posseses. I don't demand of you what you don't know all I want to engage in is exchange of ideas. Now thats not too much to ask for is it? in the proper framework that is

Originally posted by Jimca Lee: How can you win by being underestimated? Look in the historical archives and you will see underestimation sometimes leads to losses (erm.......battles in Islam would be a perfect example) Anywhos I ain't into both teams so it should put me in neutral territory. Seahawks have: Matt H (58.0 passer rate against 3-4 formation). Shaun Alexander (league rusher) Tatupu (rookie LB) While Steelers have lemme see...... Ben R (young and 124.8 passer rate) Joey P(speed n oh so good with left tackles) T. Polamalu (all around safety in every sense of the word)(thou I dunno how he will fair with the ankle) Farrior(experience and almost named NFL defensive player of the year in 2005) 3-4 defense formation. So lets see how they lock horns. Its either going to be a blow out or a shock and I personally don't have a preference.Seahawks though have to keep the game fast to deny Steelers' defense from changing and rotating formations :rolleyes: Ps:- I dunno how Bettis even plays with him taking a break every couple plays for his asthma but apparently he is driving steelers to realise his dream of getting a SuperBowl ring Happy SuperBowl Weekend

Xiin, Thanks for clarifying that reform in the case of Islam does mean decline . Not in the negative connotation but going back to the golden age as Sheikh Khalid Yasin says. Would you call them reforms though or qiyaas ? I am assuming that reforming the people to adhere to the religion would require a plan of attack Interestingly though you mentioned monarch. I am sorry if I get to be bugger I just am interested in the intricacies of interpretations. Is democracy and Islam at pars with each other? Islam is modeled in almost socialism fashion.............what then would be the ideal government? Ps:- SeeKerey just sounds like yareey.........

Originally posted by STOIC: If you want to know whether you are obessed, divide your weight(in Kg) by your height squared(in meters).If your calculation is above thirty then you are obessed. Stoic you will excuse me for ROFL. All I could think of when reading that line was a Kikuyu Thanks for the laugh now I can go back to studying mechanisms **walking away chucking and shaking her head**

^^^Darn it woman you beat me to the punch. As for the year you were born I could only submit a guess 1975-1980 :confused: Originally posted by Yeniceri: What year was Patrice Lumumba assassinated? January 17,1961. Which year was the battle of Uhud fought? (Please both gregorian and Islamic dates)

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: he means not to reform our sacred text and recast its teachings.....................................you, or someone else, comes up samples of concepts of the Precious book that need to be reinterpreted. Xiin, I understood what Qaradawi was saying and I don't mean to be obtuse but would it be fair then to deduce (read your quote) that interpretations vary and therein lies the problem? Let me throw a well discussed theory in the ring. Islamic intellectuals reformists call for interpretation of Islamic texts within their historical/social context. Stating this you would conclude that perhaps some things in the text would then not be in sync with the modern world e.g. If mortgages are allowed. Ps:- link the interpretations to the divisions in the Ummah that are now more apparent than before.

Anyone think Pistons will make it in history books like Chicago Bulls-MJ(95-96) and clinch winning 70 games in regular season? They were able to pull off 63 wins (reg. season) last year but then they lost the championship to spurs :mad:

Yeniceri apart from going on a tangent (GW bush State Union address?? :eek: ) and whatnot. I got the gist you don't think Islam is in need of reform and that its a western concept? (Feel free to correct me) Aljazeera: So, according to Islam, what is the individual Muslim's duty to combat corruption? Qaradawi: We Muslims loathe corruption. We are urged to fight vice. This is why we should be the first to embrace reform, starting with ourselves. We cannot possibly envisage a brighter future if we do not shake off the constraints of corruption that are damaging our societies. Aljazeera: Is there any reform mechanism that you envision? Qaradawi: We must be clear on this; there is a crippling feeling of disunity and paralysis that overwhelms Muslim nations. However, it should be made equally clear that a nation is responsible for reforming itself rather than having others reform it. If a nation reforms itself, it will do so while keeping its own interests in mind. That is to say, an outsider is only interested in reforms that would further his own agenda. Source Hope the interview helps clear out some cobwebs.Its actually really simple............either Islam is perfect the way it is or we accept the fact that our interpretations of the religion was tainted and call for reforms.

Viks humor me if you may here. There is a commonality between all three divisions i.e. They are correcting/remodeling the religion according to what they see fit. This leads me to the next question...............Does Islam need reform? Islam is the last message that means that it should span all generations,situations and timelines. Interpretations aside and following logic you would then have to accept that its the perfect religion. Why the reform talks and calls? What is it that is lacking?

^^^^This suddenly became an interesting thread

Dear Mr Galt, Maybe it is rhetoric but I have qualms with the meaning of the word being distorted to the point that it can describe both ends of the spectrum. Sure, potato potatoh ..........except when the potatoh begins to mean tomato and I end up cooking with the wrong ingredients.

Originally posted by Faarax-Brown: Go seahawks[Just becoz i f*CKING hate the steelers] :mad: I recall someone pinning till the last second for the steelers to lose when they played against broncos and for panthers against seahawks. I ain't siding with anyone because both teams were not tailored for the big leagues. They won by being underestimated and if you watched them throughout the playoff season you could clearly see they were not such a threat. Steelers basically took a leaf from Bronco's playbook and finessed it and I find that admirable but other than that there isn't much to cheer about.I know for sure I won't be too gang ho about this superbowl. It'll probably drag out :rolleyes:

Recently in the media I have noticed this word used in conjunction with Islam a lot. At first I didn’t pay any mind to it till one day, while I was reading a transcript of Khalid Yasin’s interview with John Cleary, I quaked at the word. Reform originally meant ‘restore the original form of something’. An example to illustrate this, as far as I can go back historically, is Protestant Reformation that occurred circa 16th century. Martin Luther at the time was at the head of this reformation. He nailed his 95 theses on the door of a church in Wittenburg, Germany. The movement occurred all over Europe but more particularly in Germany, where the princes were pre-occupied with a threat of invasion from Muslims to notice the unrest in their fiefdoms. The reformation was supposed to restore the church to its purity and from this usage we can clearly see that reformation was used in a sense of decline rather than progress . This view prevailed for most of that century to about the 17th century. From the 18th century onwards reform begun to mean something new. It now meant progress and a change for the better. The users of the word ranged from the moderate leftist and later neoliberalist. To get to why the word was causing me tremors in my chest, you would just have to look at the difference in meaning. The media uses this word when explaining what Khalid Yasin wants; Sharia Law to prevail and Islam to go back to the golden age of Medina. “What we want in a society is where everyone has access to the resources of the society, we want a society where there is a reasonable coexistence, peaceful coexistence. Here in a society we want progress, in a society we don’t want the imposition of a class system; in a society we want to know that the law is equally applied to everyone, and we go on and on and on. And I say that there is a historical paradigm. OK now if the Christians or Western civilisation say that they have a historical paradigm of a nearly ideal state, I mean Socrates, Plato and all of these guys, they kind of articulated things towards it, but they never reached such an ideal republican state. But we have a historical paradigm, not only just in the person of the Prophet peace and blessing upon him, but in that Medina state. Now how long it lasted is not the issue, the fact that it is a paradigm, so an apple is an apple, however long it stays on the tree, it’s still an apple, whether it falls on the ground and rots it’s still an apple. So I say we have a historical paradigm and for all arguments’ sake, we can look at that and then compare it with other examples.†The media also uses the word when speaking of Irshad Manji’s book The trouble with Islam . It is used to explain Indonesia’s political party of Liberal Islam Network, Morocco’s new revision of Islamic family codes and the new group that is cropping up The queer muslims . My question arises as to whose definition should we adhere to and for that matter does Islam even need reformation?

Oi Kat, How come only males? You would think in this day in age everyone would be allowed to apply. By the way I am too lazy to PM, can u recall a conversation we had about tunnel of oppression? If you can, great! cause I was wondering how I could procure the items to get the thing underway. Cheerios and Special K!

(Doped out voice) Dude this is so radically I can so totally see y she is called the Queen B

Third Caption: (In a falsetto voice) And this ladies and gents is our live exhibit of how neaderthals communicated their differences

1st caption: I can't open it any wider! This is as far as it will go 2nd caption: So this is what the other side of a horse's a$$ looks like

Embrassing you say........one occasion comes to mind. I decided to go shopping with a couple of guy friends of mine. They are both goof heads and like cracking jokes everywhere they go and since they are black, they tend to be obnoxiously loud. I hit the mall and lost them when I wanted to go try out some new pants in season. Later on after I bought a pair I went looking for them. Easy to find them since they were the loudest people walking around. While heading out the door and patting myself on my back for not having a scene, I spotted Regis salon and remembered I needed some conditioner. I nipped into the store with them following suit. While I pursued the array of products I heard guffaws of laugh behind me. I turned around and spotted my two friends picking tigi brand of products and laughing. Here is a sample of what went down : Marvin:Eyo eyo look at this one Yosh: Bed head dumb.......(laughing loud) Marvin:Bedhead dumb blonde........(laughing loud while slapping thigh) Yosh:Bedhead headbanger.....who makes up these names..........(laughing hard) **Turns to look left and right to see if anyone is witnessing this embrassment** While they continue making a skeptical of themselves a salesperson slides up next to me and whispers. " I can't believe you take them shopping with you " I walked off in a huff with them in toe not purchasing my conditioner. They kept trying to explain why they thought the conditioners and shampoos had funny names. I was just happy I didn't take them to victoria secret......wonder what they would find funny there

Allahu rahma. I knew the lady she was nice and very polite. She wasn't engaging the car jacker though her cell phone fell while she was calling 911. It fell in between the two cars and unfortunately the moron who was car jacking decided to back up the car at that moment. May her husband and family find peace. Amin

Feel free to post poems,lyrics,words of wisdom etc that lift your spirit when you feel the world wears heavy on your shoulders Not a second Or another minute Not an hour Or another day But at this moment with my arms outstretched I need you to make a way As you've done so many times before Through a window or an open door I stretch my hands to you Come rescue me I need you Right away I need you now I need you now I need you now I need you now Not another second Or another minute Not aother hour of another day But Lord I need you right away If I never needed you before To show up and restore All of the faith that I let slip While I was yet searching the world for more The true best friend I have indeed You're my best friend I know indeed I stretch my hands to thee Come rescue me I need you right away The agony of being alone The fear of doing things on my own The test and trials that come to make me strong The feelings of guilt, hurt, shame, and defeat The way the trials that beat upon me But to know Lord that in you I've got victory I need you now, Lord, I need you now (Oh, wo, wo) I need you right now, right now, right now I need you now Oh not another second Not another minute, Lord Can't wait another day (oh) Oh Lord, please make a way Oh Lord, Oh Lord, Mmmmm, Yeah by Smokie Norful

^^^ u should b sued and strung out to dry

Here is the outlook for most of midwest Brrrrrr :eek: :eek:

Originally posted by Khayr: Maybe... but it depends on : ATTENTION SPANS Got none XAAL (MOOD OF THE PERSON) Crabby/Nosey/Questioning :confused: SITUATION (are they in the middle of 3 conversations ALL AT ONCE) I am a woman so yea I multitask BACKGROUND NOISE i.e. Their Computer station and the surrounding environment such as family etc. Always interupted I ran a very busy office ENERGY LEVEL (are they tired?Is it the end of the day for them?) I am a parasite I live off another's energy I guess this ain't for me then sxb

Here is my qualm though Katrina I would rather one spoke whats on their mind and lets me deal with it than one who feigns innocence and stabs me in the back after I leave. Racism is an issue and will probably be an issue forever but for one to be overly sensitive to a person when they are being outspoken about it seems unjustified to me. Don't get me wrong I am all for standing up for equal rights but I am against the racist being silenced and made to go underground just because we choose to start a fight everytime they say BLACK . When something is made taboo it has a way of perverting itself. We silence these folks and stopper their outlet we give them reason to hatch plots in their backyard. Two/three years ago a black man was hunged in the midwest. I say let them say what they got to say and let us rebuke what they say but don't be a wuss and ask them to silence their grievences .