You can't seriously expect us to trust what Dayniile.com writes. Wasn't Dayniile.com the same website that wrote last year that Ethiopian soldier committed suicide by shooting himself in the head five times?

Koora-Tuunshe, right out of the gates in your first sentence you make the preposterous claim that "Most of the killings inside Mogadisho , according to the recent Human rights report resulted from inter-clan conflicts fighting over resources and control of strategic areas." To support your claim you adduced two articles which talk about clans fighting over water (there's severe drought in central Somalia right now) in Galguduud, Mudug, Hiiraan and Sh/dhexe. Since when did Mogadishu grow so large as to encompass all those gobols? Now, I know logic and moral integrity isn't the strong suit of Tigre dabodhilifs but this is taking it to the limit. Do you have any evidence substantiating your claim? Like the Human Rights reports you mentioned. What's happening in Somalia is not business as usual, i.e clan A vs clan B. It's Ethiopia vs Somalis. And Somalis are kicking butt and taking names. It's matter of time before Tigre occupation ends not if. The so-called Somalis who think the brutal Tigre occupation will benefit them have no place in Somalia.

Talk about tail wagging the dog. There was a time when Al-shabaab were underlings of the ICU of Sh. Shariif and Sh. Aweys. I wouldn't get all hot and bothered about Al-shabaab because they're effect not cause. The sooner the conditions that led to their prominence are removed, the sooner they'll wither into oblivion.

Does Islam really need more impoverished, benighted 3rd worlders?

Originally posted by me: I do not trust Ethiopians and their word. I do no believe that they will leave in 24 hours. I do not believe they will ever leave unless they are kicked out. But for them to be kicked out we should be united and fist-wavings and screaming whatever slogans you guys have today won't make them leave or change one bit of the reality on the ground in Somalia today. I think you're confused 'cause you contradict yourself. You say Ethiopia should be kicked out of Somalia forcibly because they won't leave voluntarily. I agree with you completely. Most Somalis share the same view. The overwhelming majority of SOLers are of that view too. You even went as far as to suggest TFG supporters themselves don't want Ethiopian troops massacring Somalis in Somalia. So, there's unanimity of views that want Ethiopia out of Somalia and firm majority of views that want to forcibly evict Ethiopia out of Somalia. What, then, is there to unite about? It seems just about everyone wants to fight Ethiopians occupying our country. I don't know about you but I think Somalis are more united today than they've been in decades. Our problem is not for want of unity but harnessing and capitalizing on the unprecedented outpouring of unity and solidarity. This is more of an issue of political organization, leadership, communication, mass mobilization etc... not lack of unity. First tell me and fellow Somalis why we should support you in your case. Why is it in our interest to support you? I'm just concerned Somali citizen. I'm neither speaker of Al-Shabaab nor any other recognized group fighting Ethiopian occupation. So, you'll have to clarify what you mean by "we" and "you." Secondly, as someone who made the defense of Somaliweyn his main stock and trade, I'm quite taken back by the equanimity with which you asked the question above... it must be said that it is in sharp contrast with the alacrity with which you defended Somaliweyn against the detested and much loathed "secessionists." I mean, YOUR country is occupied and the occupying power is reeking havoc, creating what has been called "Africa's worst humanitarian disaster." And yet you're nonchalant in the face of what is arguably the greatest affront against everything you hold dear... mind you, in the meantime you pull all stops in repudiating secessionists. You got some explaining to do sxb... 'cause you can't be pro-united Somalia/somaliweyn and be indifferent towards savage invasion and all-out attack against united Somalia. Where is their JUSTICE? Ask the TFG and their supporters. The very people who committed egregious injustices in the past are part and parcel of the TFG. Where was their JUSTICE when they were being murdered in the streets of MUQDISHO in the 90's? Sxb, the above is microcosm of what is wrong with Somalis. You should actually listen to what I say before you formulate a response. I clearly said I want justices for all that has transpired in the past 20 years. What do you think I was talking about? So understand SOMALIA is bigger then MUQDISHO. Every faction is looking out for nr.1 so come up with a message that appeals to all. You know that aint totally true. Muqodisho is the most important city in all of Somalia. He who rules it holds great sway in Somali politics. Its demise foreshadowed our nightmare. The city is both our Guernica and Stalingrad rolled into one. If it falls into Ethiopian hands, you can kiss goodbye to united Somalia. On the bright side, at least you'll get a rest from your 24/7 advocacy for united Somalia. The 6 months of heaven comment is a classic Socodbadne. Heaven kulaha? Heaven for who? Heaven for who? For the 6000+ Somalis who are dead and not with us anymore. For the 10s of thousands of Somalis who are maimed, disfigured and psychologically scarred for life. For the close to a million Somalis who are made refugees in their own country barely surviving on scant handouts. For all those Somalis who are victims of "Africa's worst humanitarian disaster." Is it my capital when I can't live there? I can't live there either but what's that got to do with opposing Ethiopian army committing war crimes there? Talk to me in a language I can understand, why are my properties still occupied? Why hasn’t anyone addressed that issue for the past 17 years? Talk to people in a language they can all understand. lol.. are you seriously asking me that question? Remember, I'm the guy who says to hell with the never ending "peace" conferences that never address the root causes of our civil war. That's why I say any future attempts at creating lasting peace should be centered on justice. Justice means holding men and women accountable for their actions. Justice means returning what was stolen from others. Justice means no more warlords for "president" or "police chief". We do not have to go to Qaahira, Khartuum, AdisAbaba, Nayroobi, Rome, Washington iyo London. We don’t need to stay in fancy hotels for months. We don’t need foreigners to mediate or even observe. If we want peace we know how to find each other. Absolutely. The so-called Somali leaders in every few years or so go to get watered like some Geel in some foreign city. We should make break with the past. Somalis can create lasting peace among themselves without being dictated to by 10s of thousands of foreign army in their own country.

I forgot to comment on this: Originally posted by me: Or worse to go back to the period before 26 December 2006. That period was heaven to what's taking place now and the looming famine that will kill hundreds of thousands of Somalis. The fastest way to results is by negotiating with fellow Somalis. That's odd. I thought it was Ethiopians occupying Somalia and not fellow Somalis. Ps. check that thread on reconciliation that Xiinfiniin was propelling. In which section?

Originally posted by me: What do you guys want? Let me tell you what we want. We want JUSTICE. Nothing less, nothing more. Justice is the prerequisite for peace. No justice, no peace. That's all the Somali ppl ask for. They don't want phony peace conferences that never produce anything. They don't want foreigners telling them what they should do. And they definitely don't need the help of a genius from Addis Ababa. Somali people want all the warlords and assorted thugs responsible for their current predicament and every injustice that has transpired for the past 20 years to be brought to justice. We want an end to the unbearable spectacle of war criminals and mass murderers masquerading as leaders. That's not asking too much, is it? Striving for justice means opposing the greatest injustice known to mankind: military occupation. Once the military occupation of Somalia ends, so will 90% of our ills. Warlords and criminal leaders will be no more. At that point Somalis can come together as free people, sans warlords and enemies of the Somali people, and create a government of national unity.

Originally posted by Naxar Nugaaleed: ^ so Ethiopia is responsible for nearly decades of statelessness, disintegration, civil war, warlord ism, and terrorism? Ethiopia had a magical tool to control all the characters, warlords, "hogamiyes", "sisyasis", regional administrations, "islamic courts" and transitional governments sense 1991? Not only since 1991 but all the way back to '77 war. For all the jabhads Somalia has seen since the mid 70s, ask yourself the following questions: Who trained them? Who financed them? Who armed them? Who kept arming them long after the last Somali government was overthrown? The answer to all those questions is Ethiopia. I don't want the Somali people to be punished twice. First time when Ethiopia sent its lapdogs to overthrow our government. Second time when it invaded us so as to impose on the Somali people warlords they emphatically rejected while claiming to be fighting other Somali warlords.

Originally posted by NGONGE: Twist, turn and wriggle, my friend. Shall we go back to JB's questions then? It is duplicitous and obtuse to hold the position you hold. Ethiopians kill, rape and humiliate civilians and they should be fought. CORRECT. Islamists capture and behead three soldiers. WRONG. The excesses of one do not at all justify the extremes of the other. Did I say anything that's false? If not, what did say that you take exception to? Reiteration of my argument: ugliness begets ugliness; response to something ugly is something equally ugly ethiopian occupation is ugly therefore, the response to it is equally ugly Now, for someone like yourself who proclaims indifference or neutrality vis-a-vis Somali politics, why would you accuse me of duplicity? What is it to you? You don't care how many die, who wins, who is occupied and who is liberated. And it's funny that the only other person who agreed with you is Mr. Duplicity himself, the one and only Mr. Juje... now here is a man who was definitely on TFG bandwagon as Ethiopia was blowing up everything that moved but fell off from it along the road to somewhere. We don't where and Juje hasn't told us yet.

Me, if you don't disagree with what I've said then tell me what you mean by this " the Ethios don't have to leave for us to make peace"... how exactly can you make peace when Somalia is in the grip of anti-occupation struggle?

Originally posted by NGONGE: ^^ You replied more than three times to this topic merely to state the obvious? How obtuse! Truth is worth repeating even for the umpteenth time. Facts are stubborn! And for the ppl shedding crocodile tears for 3 enemy collaborators, don't insult our intelligence. When Ethiopian military and their dhabodhilif foot soldiers lop missiles into civilian homes many heads get decapitated. Plastering this site with dhabodhilif propaganda to paint totally one-sided picture won't go unanswered.

Originally posted by J.a.c.a.y.l.b.a.r.o: quote:Originally posted by Socod_badne: quote: Originally posted by J.a.c.a.y.l.b.a.r.o: I think you are ........ Two days ago, I was witness to a near fatal traffic accident where a driver drove through red lights at high speeds. The victim asked me to stay behind as a witness (I'm not sure but I think I'm legally bound in Ontario). When the police came I and another dude told the police what we saw. Was I justifying the driver at fault? You'v just changed the whole point. Oberving/Watching is different from what you were saying just before. Anyhow ,,, Good luck lol... I've changed nothing, all I did was show the silliness of your reasoning. I told you how I see it just like I told the police officer how I saw the accident. I obviously don't approve of beheadings , I merely told you the facts on the ground as I see it. Occupation inevitably leads to beheadings and more uglier things. This is just the start. Things will get really ugly the longer the occupation lingers on. Brutality begets brutality.

Me, you couldn't be more wrong. Without Ethiopian occupation we wouldn't be in this dire pass. There wouldn't be hundreds of thousands of refugees, thousands dead, thousands more injured, food scarcity etc... Yes, there is a mistrust or sometimes outright enmity between Somalis and Somalis will ultimately have to make peace among themselves. But this brutal military occupation which has created Africa's worst humanitarian emergency has little to do with the old Somali-on-Somali conflict. The TFG is the ******* child of SRRC, an organization created by Ethiopia to oppose Arta produced government. Why did C.yuusuf, c. qeybdiid, madobe, hiraale, h. ceydiid, m dheere et al oppose C. Qaasim's government? What do they all have in common? Contrary to what you assert, TFG is just one (Embaghati faction) of many many many factions in Somalia. The TFG is neither representative nor legit... it's discredited all across Somalia from Saylac to Ras Kamboni. The whole world has come to this realization, hence why they're desperately attempting to "broaden" the TFG to include all interest groups. Your argument is like saying the vicious sectarian fighting taking place in Iraq today is entirely the fault of Iraqis themselves. While it is true it is Iraqis doing a lot of the fighting and killing, the fact remains without US invasion and subsequent occupation there would be no civil war in Iraq. Ending Ethiopia's occupation is the necessary condition that must attain but prolly not the sufficient condition. By that I mean so long as Ethiopia occupies Somalia there will be no chance of peace. But ending Ethiopia's occupation will probably not be sufficient to produce peace. More needs to be done. So, the top priority is ending the occupation then peace talks supervised by the UN or some other neutral third party.

Originally posted by J.a.c.a.y.l.b.a.r.o: I think you are ........ Two days ago, I was witness to a near fatal traffic accident where a driver drove through red lights at high speeds. The victim asked me to stay behind as a witness (I'm not sure but I think I'm legally bound in Ontario). When the police came I and another dude told the police what we saw. Was I justifying the driver at fault?

Originally posted by J.a.c.a.y.l.b.a.r.o: Are trying to justify ?? What do you think?

Originally posted by Koora-Tuunshe: In this case, religion, more than politics, is the opiate that drugs the people into a world of fantasy and inspires anarchistic acts of terror. I wholeheartedly agree. George W. Bush said he felt God was speaking through him in the lead up to Iraq invasion and he heard God's voices telling him to attack Iraq. Which he did, killing hundreds of thousands. What do you think should be done to religious fanatics?

Originally posted by J.a.c.a.y.l.b.a.r.o: Now what does that suppose to mean ?? Occupation is extremely ugly. Only an id.iot would think the response to something ugly to be something pretty.

^you got the whole equation backwards. Ethiopian occupation is what's causing all the deaths and misery. The occupation has to end before environment conducive to negotiation can prevail. Or the very least, the TFG has to get down from Ethiopian tanks and the Ethiopian tanks must point away their tank from TFG opponents. You need level playing field to have fruitful peace talks.

This is what brutal military occupation engenders. Because occupation is by its very nature extremely ugly, the response to it is equally ugly. The longer the military occupation goes on the uglier it will get.

Spadez, Duke's view towards occupation and warlordism is see see no evil, hear no evil. Duke, just so you know I'll be doing a full-shift in the next few weeks or so in this section, so I better not catch you making false claims like you feebly tried in this thread. In the meantime, you're forgiven.

In other words you lied when you said Calanka is owned by anti-occupation and anti-warlordism clan. Why all the back peddling? Just admit you lied. Hell, I'll even take "I was being economical with the truth"... anything but barefaced lie. It's not good to lie. Not only is it a sin but it also erodes any credibility you have.

Originally posted by General Duke: ^^^lool. My lies, adeer Calanka is owned by North Mogadishu folks, a fact. Stop it right there before you embarrass yourself any further. You LIED when you said Calanka is owned by anti-occupation clans. We all know some segments of North mogadishu folks are hardcore pro-occupation and pro-warlordism just like some segments of Puntland are pro-occupation and pro-warlordism. My burning question is: why do you like to lie? Don't you know lying is a sin? Sharif Ahmed is only popular amongst the defeated clan militia of South Mogadishu who used him as a tool. What about the Puntland troops dying in Xamar? Specially what about those from Las Canood and environs that are dying in Xamar while their home region is invaded by their arch nemesis? Whose tools are they? M/dheere? Cabdi Qeybdiid? Or Nuur cadde?

Duke, just don't think you can get away with lies. I will continue to expose your lies. Calanka is pro-occupation and pro-warlordism and hardcore one at that.

I can vouch for the veracity of this rumor. It's regrettably true, I got reliable sources that confirm it. But do you know what's more scandalous? Not only did Gabre silly slap C. yuusuf but he also silly slapped some SOLers. I can name names! Originally posted by Aduun iyo aakhiro: Wise up people, any body who uses criminal methords of pursuation will be treated as one regardless of location. Sxb, I think you got confused in the order of things. "Criminality" as you put is the effect and the occupation being the cause. To end the "criminality" you have to end its cause first.

You're a liar Duke. Calanka is owned by pro-occupation and pro-warlord group.