I have a feeling that proper mullahs would frown at the mention and use of graffiti to further their cause! Would love to know what they drew though. ps No need to explain. I know, I know.

Independent Puntland wadado or ones that are loyal to the Islamic Courts? Will it be a peaceful takeover or a bloody one? That question is too open for Duke to answer. Be specific and ask him if he has a problem with Islamic rule. It will save you a lot of rhetoric.

Lets hope it's not all just a shooting star

Shooting people (even Ethiopians) is not good for my health. Besides, only if the ICU promise to issue me with a moisturiser for my hands will I accept to walk around with a machine gun.

^^^ Will calling him the former usurper make you happy? Are the Courts equipped enough to fight on all these fronts they seem to have opened up on themselves? It seems that even Somaliland is shaking its independent fist in their general direction. Ps Former usurper would of course indicate the existence of a current usurper

Now, what’s the betting that the toppled governor of Kismayo will not also make his move and try to retake that city again?

Originally posted by Suldaanka: It looks like Meles Zenawi has gotten the better of the TFG in this regard. Starting at war in the mid of this holy month is uncalled for. Don’t blame the Ethiopians for this one, saaxib. We Somalis LOVE to fight in Ramadan. "Somalis in and outside the country are obliged to defend their country and their religion. You should be ready for an order and execute it as you will be told," Ahmed said. What does he mean by that? :confused: :confused:

When it becomes clear for Abdullahi Yusuf that the odds are terribly against him and he won't receive sufficient outside help, he'll probably milk out the rest of his term and defend what little he still controls directly or indirectly. Heh! Such power hungry people never resign to their fates, saaxib. They change colour, principles and sides in order to keep power. If Mr Yusuf, as you claim, saw that his current methods are not working I expect him to grow the biggest beard this side of Mogadishu and go to lead his honourable (but hasty) brothers in the UIC.

The plot thickens, or, maybe I should say it's being fought over.

Now you’re getting yourself all mixed up and are confusing me with you! You asked me earlier if I believe that Freedom of Speech is practised anywhere in the world. I don’t think I need to spend a long time ‘mulling’ over it before I reach the obvious answer of NO, not fully. However, that’s neither here nor there. There is a difference between those that are seen to be working towards attaining full freedom of speech (even if they never get there) and those that oppose it or are seen to be working towards curtailing it! The McCarthy era was one of those; do you not see the irony in mentioning him along with the other examples you gave? It was journalists that exposed him, criticised his policies, conduct and style. And, it was journalists that told us about all the other transgressions of the others you mentioned. Journalists are there to provide us facts sax? If I were to take his piece as factual, I will come away from reading his piece that journalists in muslim countries are puppets. Not only puppets but "Muslim" puppets. That he believes he is being censored is evident but as to who exactly is the "community" that censors him is unclear. This is where you are telling me not to infer Islam. Excuse me if I can't tell the difference between Islam and Muslims. They are intertwined, one molds the other. The fact that his piece is littered with references of Islam and House of Islam and muslims doesn't clear up the misconception even a bit. There is a real problem here that I’ve come across time and time again. How to tell the difference between Muslims and Islam! You say (in this piece) that they are intertwined and that one moulds the other! Fine. Does that mean that when a reckless Muslim commits an act of terror (for instance), Islam is to blame? Or would we go back to the old argument of Islam being pure and just and that the mistakes of individuals should not be attributed to it? Where does one make the distinction, and how? When you and I criticise the Jews and Christians (another example), are we really criticising the faiths or are we condemning how their respective followers are interpreting and applying those faiths? How can we ever clarify what we are saying? When I read a piece I don’t always only read what is being said, but, also what is not being said (which often happens to be more important). Here, the author deliberately spoke about and praised the golden age of Islam and, also, purposely did not speak about Islam (the pure and unblemished message). For me, as a reader, this suggests that his grievance is not with the actual faith but its followers and the way they interpret/apply it. I read ‘Community’ in its traditional meaning: a group of people that have something in common (which he happens to belong to and happen to be Muslim). I do agree with you (as I said at the start of this thread) that the whole article is weak, however, you seem to be avoiding the actual idea, suggestion and claim of the article: Censorship in Islam. Naden seems to have worked it out but is, it seems to me, choosing to sit on the fence here and fob us off with talk about tribal identity, interests and control. All, I believe, to be true of course but are they RIGHT?

Seeker, First, let us deal with the parts we agree on. The mention of the angels on each shoulder! I’ve got to admit that I too was as confused as you were when I read that part. The author does not at all clarify his position on this. Is he saying it’s not true? Is he against it? Is it just a passing comment that he added so that we all get to know about his story(the one he claims to have written)? Having read that part several times, I can only conclude that the author considers the story of the two angels on each shoulder to be a myth! Now, lets turn our attention to the parts that we disagree on. At the outset of this thread I specifically asked that we should not digress into arguments about the author’s personality, beliefs or even honesty. That’s really a pointless discussion (since he’s not here to defend himself). Still, you didn’t oblige me and decided to comment on him! Alas, I dare say you got it all wrong. It’s the same old confusing argument about Islam and Muslims. If you read the article again, you’ll notice that the author praises the golden age of Islam and wishes that it would return. Furthermore, in his entire article, he does not refer to Islam itself but rather to the way people are applying it today. He also clearly talks about official censorship (meaning the tyrant governments you speak about) and community censorship (meaning every Tom, Dick and Harry). In no way, as far as I’m concerned, does he criticise Islam itself! Read his piece again (ignoring the bit about the angels) and see if you agree with his idea bout the ‘community censorship’ that he’s ;putting forward. Do you agree with it or disagree and why?

Not sure if this article was posted here already. I apologise if it were. If not, then our dear brother Bashir is at it again and waxing lyrical about all things Islamic! Of course, many of you shall not be surprised to find out that I agree with the basis of his message. Current Islamic censorship is overbearing, meddlesome and very intrusive! I’m only sad to see that his words (and strong feelings on the subject) had let him down and allowed him to write such a weak piece. Community Censorship Plagues the House of Islam Even worse than the official censorship is censorship imposed by the community, which then becomes self-censorship. Friends, colleagues and even ordinary acquaintances all impose strict censorship rules on me under the guise of being concerned about my personal safety or honor. They demand that I tone down my strong views about sensitive issues. Freedom of the press in the Muslim world cannot be separated from freedom of expression in general. Journalists, due to their conspicuous public role, risk their lives everyday. They have been targeted and killed in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Palestine, Somalia, Sudan and other countries. The Muslim world is not a friendly place for freedom of speech at all. Journalists, creative writers and artists all share the same fate. The writer in a Muslim society is in shackles. Every time I put pen to paper it is a struggle against the tyranny of community-imposed self-censorship. Nowhere is Rousseau's statement that "Man is born free; and everywhere he is in chains," truer than in the House of Islam. Everything is a taboo. Whenever a Muslim writer takes up a pen he starts tiptoeing in a minefield. You have to follow the flag signs of religious, cultural and social taboos. You should tread carefully avoid shame, social estrangement or even death. The beheading of the Sudanese journalist Mohamed Taha Mohamed Ahmed in early September was the latest example of community punishment of a journalist/writer. Writers have to endure internet blockages and black ink splashed on their art magazines and school textbooks. One of the most bizarre censorship actions I have ever seen was the blotting out of the sexual organs of a historical picture of donkey standing in an old Arabian market. In the House of Islam, you cannot have a principle other than that of the community. Every thing you do is referred to Islam. The mantra is "that's ****** BUT...But we cannot do this because we are Muslims." One hears this expression ad nauseam. In the Islamic world you cease to be a human being. You become only a Muslim, whatever that entails. You are not allowed to be a person with vices and virtues, you cannot follow your own reasoning, and you cannot be unpopular or defend an unpopular idea. You cannot go out of the circle. To express yourself freely means to risk death. And death indeed if you change your faith. Invention itself is considered as an act of blasphemy. I am obliged to remind my readers however that Islam had its good days of freedom of speech in the middle ages when the Mutazilites and Asharites debated in public and in the royal courts about sensitive issues such as the creation of the Koran. This golden period has since been buried in the thick dust of history. With the rise of Islamic extremism in the present age, one can only hope for the return of such rationale. On a personal level, I remember writing a poem in early 1980s, which was considered critical of Somalia's dictatorial regime of Siyad Barre. Later when I wanted to visit my ailing father I had to travel by land from Djibouti, taking a longer route, rather than risking an arrest at the airport of Hargeisa. In another unfortunate instance, a lyric I wrote on raising awareness about HIV/AIDS and encouraging safe sex has to remain under wraps because musicians were all afraid to set them to music. They considered its message un-Islamic. With Somalia now under the grip of extremist Islamists who have already banned all kinds of artistic works and dissenting voices, freedom of press is their last priority. Censorship in the Islamic world is instilled at childhood. Children are taught that there are two angels sitting on the shoulders of every person entrusted with the task of monitoring every good and bad deed the person does or says. This has prompted me to write in a piece of fiction about the character of a little boy who dived into a pond and vented out his demons under water where no angels or people could censor his words. To survive in such unfriendly atmosphere like this, journalists in the Muslim world have become like parrots that only echo the official line. Torn between the call of professionalism and that of censorship, they have to always adhere to the call of the latter. If it takes a village to raise a child in Africa, it takes a community to kill a writer, artist and a journalist in the Muslim world. Therefore, to talk about how to promote freedom of the press in the Muslim world may be a question that could trigger another clash of civilizations. http://blog.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/bashir_goth/2006/09/working_under_the_tyranny_of_s.html Now that you read it, what ideas and opinions has that article conjured up in your head? I hope it does not all concern the faith (or otherwise) of the author. How do you perceive Islamic censorship? Is it spot on? Should it be increased or decreased?

At least it looks like the man knows how to deal with the media and is wise enough to side-step any difficult questions. Still, the interview was very mild to be honest. I would have liked the interviewer to have pushed him a little more.

The clip looks very fake and manufactured. The so-called torturers seem to be kicking the floor and punching the air rather than their victim. However, what really thickens the plot is the fact that the victim is who he is alleged to be. If that were true, why would he participate in such a fake video? Moreover, why would such a video (if real) see the light of day? Very strange indeed!

Khyer, but how do you see them doing, say, in five years time? What will the Somali scene (in your opinion) look like? Draw me a full picture if you will. Oodweyne for example has given us very strong arguments above. In fact, right now, I’m almost swayed by his logic and convincing clairvoyant like skills. Still, I intentionally named this thread ‘waxa la yedhi’ in order that the participants do not hold back and unleash their full vision upon us. If you were a Courts supporter, what exactly is your future expectation of these Courts and how do you BELIEVE them to behave? If you’re an opponent, what are the obstacles and pitfalls (in your opinion) that you believe will ensure the Courts failure? This is an exercise in salesmanship and, like me, I suspect that the vast majority of the readers of this site are still undecided on this issue. For now, and I’m speaking on behalf of most of the silent readers, it looks like Oodweyne’s product is the most attractive thing here. Anyone care to undersell him, outmanoeuvre him or even make his product obsolete? The floor is yours. Ps Don't let facts get in your way. This is a waxa la yedhi after all.

Lets not panic just yet, girls. He's got no problems with your bandanas

Those that oppose the Islamic Courts in Somalia cite many different reasons for this opposition. The first of course is that the courts are not really Islamic and that this is yet another covert clan war! Then there are those that oppose the actual Islamic ideology these Courts follow! What do you know about the Courts? If they ruled the whole of Somalia, what interpretation of the faith do you expect them to apply and what ones do you wish they would avoid? Would you agree with the cutting of the hands of a starving thief that stole an apple (we’re still on a waxa la yedhi argument remember)? What’s your position on women: working, going to school or mixing socially/professionally with those of the opposite sex? How do you think/expect the Courts to treat them? Could you ever envisage a prominent woman member/advisor of the Courts? What form of Sharia law do you expect the Courts to apply? What form do you prefer? The Saudi, Iranian or Northern Nigerian? When the Courts finally control the whole of Somalia, what sort of government do you expect them to look like? What will the country look like? Give me a bit of waxa la yedhi right now and make it good.

Norf is a proper sell-out, man. For real! I never see da man startin threads about the San Francesco of England. He’s always writing about Dubai, Oman or Hargeisa (man is not even from Hargeisa, ya get me!).

rudy & Zafir Northerner, war I work very hard at delegating my work. LST, it still does not work by the way. While we’re here and just in case some random readers take this the wrong way, I’m not making a complaint. It was just a message to attract the Admin’s attention to the problem (saves you all from sending him private messages). Ps Have any of you noticed how many guests this site has (I‘ll save you the trouble, right now there are 1170 guests)? We need to entice some of these lurkers to introduce themselves! Doffs his hat to the administrators of the site (yes, yes, I know I’m getting all sentimental in my old age).

I just logged into the site to read the latest exchanges when I was assaulted by the unfamiliar sight of a flashing message on the top left hand corner of my screen. It said ‘You have 1 unread private message’! I clicked on it to see what was so important that I needed to read in private. It was from a female! I really can’t remember the last time a female/girl/woman sent me a private message (the last man to do so was JB, about two months ago). This was exciting stuff. She’s definitely flirting with me. Why else would she use the word ‘yo’ as the subject title? Well, tell her from me here and now that she did get my full attention with that sweet yo of hers. Though I did spend a long time wondering how she would enunciate the word. Would it be with a sweet, high and sparrow like voice, or , more a sensual, slow and Marilyn Monroe like whisper? I quickly clicked on the message to see what it contains and prepared myself to politely turn down her (obviously) amorous advances. However, it seems that this new and improved forum has an anti-flirtation- with-NGONGE device installed! For instead of getting a long and circuitous message from a young filly telling me how much she admires me and how she spent many sleepless nights lying in her bed and tracing the letters of my name on air, I got an automatic message telling me that there is some sort of fault and that I should contact the administrator! Rest assured that I’m telling the full truth when I say that I would have rejected her advances. However, I was planning to do it in a benign and harmless way. I was going to be polite. I was going to listen to her argument, humbly enjoy the attention and then gently turn her down. Now, like a young girl that got all dressed up only to find out that the wedding she was going to go to was cancelled, I’m disappointed and feel really let down (xarragow bila aroos is the new maah maah this incident forced me to coin). At my age, these little incidents are what reminds me of the kind of all-conquering lion I used to be (though of course, I probably wasn’t, my memory is not as good as it used to be you see). One minute the excitement of it all got to me and I was ready to stalk my prey, and now (because of a technical fault) it got away (the prey) leaving me heaving and panting and remembering the effect my bulky body has on my ancient knees. It’s scandalous I tell you, scandalous. Ps Just in case you fell asleep whilst reading the above, Private Messages don’t work on this forum. Pps Never give up my young filly, keep knocking on that door I’m sure I’ll eventually open. Yo, Yo, Yo! PPPs That darn message is still flashing on my screen. It feels like I’m being teased and reminded of my great failure.

The words sound great but I bet all your food tastes the same and is of the same colour (even the darn vegetables).

Oodweyne, I’m glad you took my words in the spirit they were intended (banter). I’m even more heartened by your response there. Putting loyalty to your homeland aside, the rest of your response was measured, well thought and almost convincing (only if I could get rid of my eternal cynicism). Nonetheless, and despite this cynicism of mine, sometimes some words, phrases and beautiful arguments manage to find a chink in my armour and get me to root for my homeland. So, with no further argument, lingering or postponement, let me shout out aloud: Long Live Somaliland.

^^^ Could this be yet another one to claim to have touched a lion's nose? [ October 04, 2006, 00:26: Message edited by: Libaax-Sankataabte ]

Nur & Xiin you might be right and this might be about pure clannish loyalties. On the other hand, one can easily extend them the benefit of the doubt and assume that their real opposition is to do with mistrust and caution rather than hatred. After sixteen years of mistrust it’s almost impossible to expect everyone to suddenly drop everything and shake hands just because their foes have donned the garb of Islam. What will convince your detractors will be your conduct (in this debate at least). The confrontational style and the casting of aspersions does not encourage any acceptance. Anyway, the position of those that oppose the ICU today reminds me of Ahmed Shouqi’s great Arabic poem about the fox and the rooster. Now if the rooster insists he’s good yet keeps bearing its teeth as it does, can you really blame the rooster for being wary? برز الثعلب يوماً ..................................... ÙÙŠ ثياب الواعظينا Ùمشى ÙÙŠ الأرض يهدي ..................................... ويسب الماكرينا ويقول: الحمد لله ..................................... إله العالمينا يا عباد الله ØŒ توبوا ..................................... Ùهو كه٠التائبينا وازهدوا ÙÙŠ الطيران ..................................... العيش عيش الزاهدينا واطلبوا الديك يؤذن ..................................... لصلاة الصبح Ùينا Ùأتى الديك رسول ..................................... من إمام الناسكينا عرض الأمر عليه ..................................... وهو يرجو أن يلينا Ùأجاب الديك عذراَ ..................................... يا أضل المهتدينا بلغ الثعلب عني ..................................... عن جدودي الصالحينا عن ذوي التيجان ممن ..................................... دخل البطن اللعينا إنهم قالوا، وخير القول ..................................... قول العارÙينا مخطئ من ظن يوماَ ..................................... أنّ للثعلب دينا It’s all about appeasement and reassurance rather than confrontation and accusations. ** Quick translation ** The above poem is about the day the Fox came out dressed up in religious garb and commenced to preach and tell people to fear god! He advised his listeners to forsake the meat of birds, claiming that the best life is that of those that forsake pleasures. He then requested that someone go to the rooster and ask him to come and conduct the call for prayers! A messenger of this new preacher went to the rooster and informed him of the request. But the rooster refused and cited the advice of his own grandfathers who perished at the hands of the fox. He quoted their words that said: wrong is he that believed the fox to have faith! Ps I hope no ignoramus misunderstands the poem and assume that I’m accusing the Courts of being as vile as the fox and those that oppose them to be as wise and innocent as the rooster. The only reason I used the poem here is to highlight the deep mistrust between the two sides. That’s all. PPs I wrote the above before reading Xiin's reply below. No offence intended, akhi

Oodweyne, Does this mean you’ve become a TFG fan now? On a serious note, you’ve got to admit that this new ‘foe’ is unlike any that Somalis faced in the past. You’ve got to admit that despite all our blasphemy, the average Somali usually stands and listens when the topic is Islam! Unlike you, I strongly believe that the fifth column you speak of does exist and presents a great risk to the sovereignty of Somaliland. The beauty of it is that by it’s own nature, this ‘fifth column’ is very unlikely to rise up and topple the government on its own. Rather, it will spread the message, point to the goodness of the courts and try to win the hearts (minds are not important) of the people. I’m sure you’ll agree that the call to Islam is a very powerful message that can easily overtake national feelings and patriotism. Hang on, let me get out of my tight jeans and pink shirt for a minute. Watch me as I don the ‘Islamic’ garb and try to persuade you to join our ranks, brother. Somaliland has been trying to get recognition for the past sixteen years. It has yet to achieve it. There are subtle murmurs of corruption and tribal mistrust (which has been ignored for the greater good). How long, jazaka allah my brother, are we going to wait? We are presented with an opportunity to join hands with our Muslim brothers from the south. It’s a great opportunity to uphold the faith. Nay, it’s a historical opportunity. We can resurrect Islam right here in the horn of Africa. We can do what countless other Muslim nations and states failed to do. Would you not give your life for your faith? This is your opportunity to do what’s good! Discard political division and embrace Islamic Unity, my brother. Cast off secularism and support sharia law, akhi. Let us start the northern revolution right here in Burco. It’s not going to be hard. Let us light up the fire of Islam here and watch it as it burns brightly and spread to all the corners of Somaliland. This is our opportunity to create an Islamic Empire that will rule the world, brother. The Arabs had their chance, the Turks had their chance and even the Mamluks had their chance. It’s our turn to lead Islam and create the first Somalia Khilafa. Why pass such a great chance for the sake of a tiny dream like Somaliland? Why not join your brothers from the south and help make history? Do you feel no shame about the fact that Somaliland has a female Foreign Minster? Let us drop this shameful entity and join the ranks of men that are giving their lives for Islam, akhi. Is that a tear I see in your eye? Give me a hug, brother.