^^^ The reasons don't really matter. As long as Xabash are killing Somalis one can't think of it as being anything but WRONG! It's best not to take things down clan lines and accusations. Stick with what your eyes can see. Xabash soldiers killing Somalis.

^^^ A strange time to post such a picture, saaxib! Reminds me of the Arabic saying: He lit a pyre and sat on top of it. Alas, the man is long dead and those burning things are aliving and kicking. A sad, sad situation our motherland is involved in today. I hope and pray that not many innocents get caught in the middle. And without getting overly emotional I also pray that the Xabash cut their losses and leave.

^^^ That is not going to happen though. You talk of the ICU as if you’re describing a standing disciplend army! The dishonouring of dead bodies will continue as long as there is a war taking place. For now, other than condeming it, there really is nothing you can do about it. One can’t control such spontanous events. But one can help spread awarness and remind people of the heniousness of such acts. Still, all of what you say is (though admirable) being told to the wrong people. Do you believe some ICU (clan/insurgent/whatever other names you want to give them) leaders frequent this site and read our comments? If not, then your suggestions are wasted. If yes, preach on, brother. Better still, why don’t you preach to the ones here! You have a better chance of convincing some of the reasonable ones of your point of view than changing ICU strategy or methods. And, if you convince the ones here they in turn till convince others (the waxa la yedhi rule) and those others will pass the message to others until, one day in the not so near future, your words will become the norm, convention and moral position of the Somali nation. After all, this is the beauty of such mediums (as discussion forums). They really are not chat rooms as some of the lesser beings amongst us seem to think.

Sorry saaxib. Didn't mean to spoil your topic. I just find the romanticism slightly counterproductive. You see, many people read such pieces and wish that they lived in such times or that the Muslim world was as 'strong' as it was back then. The reality is that the Muslim world was weak and divided then more than it is now. Yet, and this is the good news, Islam itself stubbornly continued and carried on getting stronger. There really is no need for that much naval-gazing.

Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar: The so-called economist who was deliberately breaking the rules of this site: Do not post-paste dead mutilated bodies on this forum. Never. This is your first and last digniin/warning: Don't ever post again those mangled pictures again. Kun jeer ayaa la idiin sheegay, it is against the rules by directly posting dead bodies, let alone mutilated, disfigured ones. Tired of ciyaal aan damiir iyo akhlaaq midna lahayn wax loo sheego every darn day. Sin bin, naughty step, punshiment.....get the drift? You've been saying you're tired for months now!

Originally posted by Paragon: quote:Originally posted by Superfluous: ^^these are the kinds of pics NGONGE wants to see. CNN style, clean pics, he doesnt want to see the reality. Superfluous, I think, whoever his audience, NGONGE's attempt to be civil in the face of raw (and sometimes brute) reality is pointless. No pictures ( dead Ethiopians) were posted in this topic; only a link to them was provided. That is not against any site's rules. Trying to be civil but on the wrong thread . It all depends on the type of discussion you want to have from posting links to such pictures, saaxib. Do you really think such pictures encourage a decent sort of discussions? So far, the directions most discussions are taking are wrong, pointless and ugly. What did you and Superfluous get from looking at such a link? One does have to be civil and attempt to raise the level of discussion from the stage it's at now. Do you think a toothless old lady in the backstreets of xamar could not have said exactly the same thing you, Red Sea and the others have said? I read this topics to learn something new about this war. It's enough for me to know that the enemy has lost some of its fighters, I really don't want to see pictures of those dead fighters being dishonured and mutilated. It adds nothing to me (or us). You say being civil is crazy under such circumstances, I say the blood lust we see here is pointless. Unless and until the admins start deleting these silly unproductive posts we will carry on having these ugly confrontations and see fools like SomaliEconomist and others gloating about the death of their fellow Somalis. I usually don't comment on such topics and let the kids have the run of the place but I am disappointed in you, saaxib.

A war is a war and everyone wants to defeat the enemy. In this case, and for most Somalis, this enemy is Ethiopia. However, on this site there is no war taking place and people are NOT under the same level of stress, fear or hatred as those back in Somalia. When those people kill, drag and mutilate the corpses of their enemy’s one can at least understand (if not excuse) the overwhelming pressure and despair that would drive them to do so. But when a retarded Nomad posts pictures of dead Ethiopians on to this site, one can never understand nor excuse such s.t.u.p.i.d.i.t.y! MMA, time you stopped all the cosmetic surgery and started DELETING threads, saaxib. The longer you leave this kids as they are the worse the level of discussion will get.

These are sad developments. Lets us pray that no more civilians get caught in the middle. And if this fighting results in the withdrawal of the Ethiopians, all the better. Alas, I doubt such a thing will happen anytime soon.

A great battle and greater victory. Yet, the author seems to sweeten the truth a little. He first overlooked the level of friction and disunity in the Muslim world prior to this battle. He failed to mention the weakness of the Khalifa in Baghdad. And, more importantly, he did not at all touch upon the political backstabbing that led to Qutuz taking over the throne of Egypt! Furthermore, he conveniently (for it would spoil the story) omitted the fact that Qutuz was later assassinated by a group of his own followers. Qutuz only ruled for one year! First of all, one has to totally agree that this battle was one of the greatest the Islamic world has seen. The Tatars were expanding into Muslim lands and conquered all that stood in their way (I'm not taking anything away from the might of the Mongol warriors but the Muslim division and disunity probably played a great part in allowing the Tartars to conquer all those Islamic lands). Many Islamic kingdoms were attacked and when they asked for help from neighbouring Muslim countries were ignored. Baghdad itself (the capital of the Muslim world and the place of residence of the Khalifa) was attacked and subjugated (it is said that many valuable books and manuscripts were thrown in the river Euphrates, depriving humanity of a great deal of knowledge and wisdom). The Tartars continued on attacking and pillaging further cities and towns. They were aided and abetted by a few crusader kings (things really were not as hunky dory as the author makes it sound). In the meantime, Egypt (that eventual saviour of Islam) was still lost in a serious of political plotting and intrigue. Of course, Qutuz, ultimately assumed power. But before that there were many assassinations, killings and rifts. Qutuz, Beebers (who is said to have played the biggest part in the battle we're talking about) and others were Mamluks (white slaves). They grew up in Egypt in the same house and under the ownership of the same man. They also grew in power until they all became princes in Egypt. Later when their owner died one of their number became the ruler of Egypt. After that man died a female Mamluk became the queen of Egypt (this caused a ruckus in many parts of the Muslim world). She married one of her generals and made him Sultan (after realising that she could not hold on to the throne and that the Muslim world, led by the Khalifa himself, was against her ruling Egypt). The plotting and backstabbing continued and both this lady (her name was Shajarat-El-Dur or the tree of gems) and her husband were killed. The adolescent son of the Sultan was sworn in and this is when Qutuz saw his chance to usurp the rule for himself. It is debatable whether Qutuz would have removed the young Sultan had there been no threat from the Tatars. But, seeing how things worked out before and after that I'm inclined to believe that he would have, regardless of any outside threat. The battle itself went as the author describes (though he doesn't give Beebers enough credit whilst most historians do). However, the way he spins his yarn he does make it sound as if everyone livid happily ever after. Far from it of course! A short time after this historic victory, Qutuz was assassinated by his fellow Mamlukes (chief amongst them Beebers)! Beebers went on to rule Egypt for a long time and had his fair share of battles, dramas and problems (in fact, at one point, he invaded Mecca and removed its leader to allow banned Egyptians to proform the pilgrimage). The Islamic world was still beset by Tartar and crusader invasions, but not in the strength or volume of the previous ones. Beebers is said to have been murdered too. Ain Jaloot was a great victory that, in the eyes of many historians, helped to obscure the huge flaws and squabbles present in the Muslim world at that time. So, dear reader, before you fall for the romanticism of this author and yearn for a time like that, remember that things were even worse than they are now. Nonetheless, the story of the battle alone and the clever tactics of the Mamlukes make one's heart pound with admiration. Whatever their faults, when the time came to defend their people and their lands they all fought like legendary heroes and deserve all the praise they get. Ps The Mongol's were led by the grandson of Genghis Khan. By that time, Genghis Khan was long dead.

^^ That's because you never heard Val speak A right chav she is. ps Does Jb realise who you are?

Originally posted by Crystal_Clear: The divorce rate in our community is rapidly growing! yabka yabkiisa i have seen ayeeyo and awoowee getting divorced(and there youngest is 30 years old) i have seen a 15 year old Single mother( divorced) i have seen ppl married one weekend and the other weekend who got divorced(very common now) i have seen pregnant women getting married i have seen Pregnant women being divorced i have seen marriage and cheating become normal For someone so young (judging by your hip style of writing) you seem to have seen a lot of things! Have you seen a man marrying a married woman yet? I have ps Keep doing what you're doing. pps A.U.B I do like her avatar

^^^ A.U.B called me ugly but I'm not mad. In fact I'd like to offer him a drink Serenity, I'm actually planning to go fix my teeth and buy me a few precious Arabic books, in addition to a total rest of course.

^^^ Work harder and you can buy influence, saaxib. I think Che is being cheeky for asking you about the vote and saying that those who live there are the only ones that should decide how things go. It's not as if his part of the world is that much different to Somaliland! As long as the somali xawalado hear the clink of your coins you DO have a say in how the country should be shaped. That you decide not to excercise that right is only your choice. And a very honourable choice it is too.

Serenity, The great baboon says I can't start topics. I'm simply agreeing with her and trying to copy her style of starting topics. After all, monkey see, monkey do nooh ps I'm fashionably bald by the way. Kindly note the importance of the word 'fashionably' here. I think my hair will grow back if I let it. I'm sure it will. Positive. Certain. It will grow back. Trust me when I say it will. 100% sure.

I really wish this would offend her but the little baboon actually loves monkeys.

You made all that fuss for that silly point? You noisy monkey! This is you, this is: There I have started a topic. Now go dangle from a tree.

Originally posted by Pi: ^^ The English Orphans don't know their mother tongue so well. soph·ist –noun 1. (often initial capital letter) Greek History. a. any of a class of professional teachers in ancient Greece who gave instruction in various fields, as in general culture, rhetoric, politics, or disputation. b. a person belonging to this class at a later period who, while professing to teach skill in reasoning, concerned himself with ingenuity and specious effectiveness rather than soundness of argument. 2. a person who reasons adroitly and speciously rather than soundly. 3. a philosopher. Source Good man. Now go and read up on the root word Soph

Originally posted by roobleh: NGONGE Sir, I am not ignoring the fact that Bashir Goth is blaming "such clan" for the horrible act. Remember, I mentioned how I disagreed with the author for this generalization. So, lets avoid boring ourselves by stating the obvious and not bogged down with minor details also. But, isn't it obvious that those who did it probably belong to "such clan." Okay, lets not go there! I am interested to know your point of view about this barbaric act subjected to the dead bodies? Also, what effect does this have on Somalia such as Puntland deciding to leave the south and become an independent state? To me, those are the important issues, but somehow you are trying to evade this. I hope our future arguments to be lively discussions and less like wrangling. I'm not trying to avoid anything, saaxib. In light of the accusations Mr Goth was dishing out in his article, the topics you want me to comment on become side issues and nothing more. You seem to be in denial here! Regardless. Since you chose to zoom into one small section of his article and decide that this is the message within, I'll oblige you by dealing with that now. First of all, the idea that Puntland will want to secede and go its own way is a non-starter. In my opinion, Puntland will only consider that step if and when Somaliland succeeds in gaining recognition from the international community. The reasoning being that Somalia (as it was pre 1990) will not exist anymore and therefore the benefits of being part of a whole republic might not be as attractive. As long as Somaliland is not recognised Puntland will not seek to secede from Somalia. And, frankly, why should they? The way things are going they're in a great position to rule the whole of Somalia (including Somaliland). In fact, I suspect that SOME half-wits in Puntland circles believe they have a god-given right to rule Somalia. Having read some of your contributions on this forum I'm almost certain that you are a Somalilander. I'm also guessing that you probably hail from Borama and its surrounding towns/villages! The second part is only a guess of course; I totally accept that I may be completely wrong here. But I'll still risk a wager and await your confirmation or denial. The good news is that we're from the same country, if not region. I am also a Somalilander but not as patriotic as you. For now, and until recognition is granted, I choose to keep a foot in both camps and see how things develop before making a final choice. For if you're not involved in the politics I believe this to be the only prudent course of action. I have no faith in the incompetents of Udub, Kulmiye and Ucud who had sixteen years to secure recognition and still didn't manage it. Furthermore, they make the whole place seem like a fragile house of cards! Every time a little ruckus takes place in the South Somaliland disappears into the background (well, apart from Mr foot-in-mouth Waraabe). A country that seeks recognition should be actively exploiting the mayhem in the South and making its case heard (not in the Goth way though). Aloofness and a dignified silence are truly not on here (and now). There! I have appeased you and Mr Goth by turning all this into a discussion about Somaliland. We happy? Ps The issue of the dead bodies and how they were dragged about the streets is really not that important. It's ugly, savage and clearly wrong. But, I still maintain, it's an expected action of an ignorant mob in a war environment. You may have some standard table of the top ten gruesome acts in time of war that you base your opinions (and level of condemnation) on. I sadly don't, and therefore, choose to condemn it in the same way I would the killing of children, raping of women or mass murder. Bad things happen in times of war and when criticism is apportioned it would be wrong to direct it at only one clan. The whole of Somalia is to blame for this. We created the conditions that allowed these fools to do what they did. So, unless you have a political point to make that will help you earn sick political gains out of this, I really do suggest that you ignore the wagging fingers and accept that the world is not really a nice place.

Originally posted by Northerner: SOL threads tend to develop into 3 or 4 sub-threads. Why is that? Magool,Femme (insert any other name used) When your not away for a month or two you do start a topic or two i give you that. Yes. Great topics such as 'what wedding dress'! Bloody baboon wasted all this bandwidth on such a silly point. I suggest she delete her own topic and confine herself to private messages for a month.

^^^ Kindly remove me from that list or else I shall get my contacts to find your address and pass it on to A.U.B

^^^ waa habaarka wadaada nooh ** Spread the word **

^^^ Reason never sits well with angry young men, saaxib. With some it's best to let them flex their cyber muscles and go on about defining simple terms. When the fights comes, I daresay they would struggle to fight their way out of a room full of feathers. The poet said it best: الرائ قبل شجاعة الشجعان هو اول وهي المحل الثاني It's a darn shame that the bravery we keep seeing here is almost always devoid of any reason.

Heh. The silly Americans complain about illegal Latinos and the Brits complain about East Europeans. We've got Ethiopians, Ugandans and Aliens! You just can't make it up. I bet the natives started throwing rocks at it already. Can just imagine some little old lady leaving a bowl of milk by its side.

Roobleh, You can't condone with one hand and condemn with the other, saaxib. That's just being duplicitous. Here, both authors singled out one clan (by name) and both people plainly pointed out that they blame the whole clan! There was no mention of small elements within the clan or that they require any elders to apologise, etc. Goth (for obvious reasons) is actually saying: let them rot (or words to that effect). Are you ignoring this on purpose? Take the blinkers off and you might just about make out the glaring light.

^^^ Excuse me, young lady. I only ever chase Val on here. And, no, not for the reasons you think Thanks Captain. I should have known it was that name changing baboon.