The normal one is closed, saaxib. I suspect it is closed for a reason.

A&T, Log out and try to log back in using the name "Al-Haji Abtigiis & Tolka". Waa lagu qarxiyay badow yaho. The name you are using now is a different account. Heh.

Heh@ Moh Cagdheer

Bob, Arsenal played well last night and the goal was almost a fluke. Of course, there was no chance in hell that they would win but the game was much closer than previous (recent) encounters. There was even signs of solidity about the team and the young goalkeeper is a bonus. Have faith warya.

Horta A&T yaa arkay? I'm taking bets that he, Xiin and Duke will be the last three to figure things out. Who do you think will make here first?

War waxan ilow. I was trying to check something when I got the following message (wonder if I can post?). " You have been banned for the following reason: No reason was specified. Date the ban will be lifted: Never"

I know I can. But my old one is not there. Feels like wearing new uncomfortable shoes. Heh.

wyre;679819 wrote: Ngonge ninyahow smileys wey jiraan balse waa adiga sameysoo meesha kuuguma diyaarsanee , laakiin ani I have 1 problem akhyaaray, quotation keyga halkuu la aaday admin? Maalin dhan baan internet ka ka raadinaaye 24hrs ayey igu qaadatay, haddana ma dib baan u raadiyaa? @BOB anugu 2 saac illaa 7 saac waan isku dayaye inaan bal mar uun dalaq soo iraahdo waanse ku guuleystay akhiiran Dee badow baad tahay. And the smiley are not the same. I want the green man.

I wish this was my avatar.

Heh@CL. As long as they can't view our private exchanges, I really don't mind.

You shouldn't complain really. Xaaji Xundjuf was given Borat.

I think there are lots of people reading this and wondering how we all managed to log in. I personally have no idea how I managed. Madaxaan gidaarka la dhacayaay uun ila aan galay. There is no logic to it really(I suppose you just have to keep on typing your username and password over and over again). I have spoken to A&T about this and we are both in agreement that sheekadan Imam Farole ayaa ka dambeeya! P.S. No smily faces? Hadaba caruurto siday kaftanka yaga o fahmi doonan? [smily face]

Originally posted by General Duke: ^^^NGOONGE with all due respect Xiin did not say that was the pic of this meeting. Yes unlike your uncle Siilanyu who met his old refugee friends in London. President Faroole has met the President of Yemen as reported in this forum, and now the Amiir of Kuwait. He was asked to produce pictures and he put the one about the Kuwaiti guys that visited Bosaso in March. He didn't have to say anything, saaxib. As for Siilaanyo and who he met, that's just silly talk, saaxib. I made fun of his red carpet treatment in both countries he visited before London and I'd make fun of red carpet in London too. The shallow ends of politics don't bother me much, I like the deep ends, saaxib. P.S. Those guys in Xiin's photo deserve a lot of praise for all the good work they are doing in PL. Very impressive guys.

^^ He met the president of Yemen, didn't he? Maybe that guy put in a good word for him. Still, Xiin's pictures are misleading. Those are normal (good) guys. They have nothing to do with the Kuwaiti government.

^^ Dee I'm going by the link you posted, saaxib. It has the wrong Amir's name.

^^ Somaliland Press is lying too . The Amir of Kuwait is called Sheikh Sabah al-Ahmad al-Jabir al-Sabah (not Nawaf). Arr Somalida maxa beenta ku kalifay?

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: Kuweyt:Madaxweynaha Puntlland Dr.C/raxmaan Faroole ayaa saaka waxaa uu isaga iyo wafdi la socda ay kulan la qaateen amiirka dalka Kuweyt, wafdiga Madaxweynaha Puntlland ayaa waxaa kulankooda ay sheegeen in ay amiirka dalka Kuweyt ay kala hadleen arimo u badan dhaqaalaha iyo in wax laga qabto kaabayaasha dhaqaalaha ee Puntlland. Warka oo faahfaahsan dib ayaan idin kala soo socodsiin doonaa insha Allaahu They were in PL months ago. Where is the Emir? Same guys from Xiin's photo

^^ Kii kaa horeeyay ba (nuune ) qasacado khamri ayuu la yimid and it still didn't stop you from saying your piece.

^^ This post of yours would have made sense YESTERDAY, sahib. Obviously, you didn't read much of what I wrote above. Talow gabay ka sheekeeya riirihiina degdegooda ma jira?

^^ Both verses are brilliant in their own way and the fact that you memorised them is totally lost on you.

Anyone know what is the legally accepted temperature when working in offices? I've been bloody shadow boxing all morning just to keep warm.

Originally posted by Thankful: GAROWE ONLINE EDITORIAL | Those same jokers say Garowe Online opinion represents Puntland government opinion. What did they say? U.N. Security Council arms embargo? The joke of the century! Any logical mind will refuse such a grand lie. U.N. power is limited to coffee shops inside New York City where the world's rich and powerful rub shoulders. Those same jokers say Garowe Online opinion represents Puntland government opinion. So what you're effectively saying is, despite the years of hard work, investment, dedication and love of country, Garowe Online belongs to Puntland government? Sorry, Somali arms embargo by U.N. is a joke – Puntland government sympathy for Garowe Online is a bigger joke. Garowe Online is equal to every independent news agency in Somalia. Puntland will not beg anyone for its security. Puntland will not ask anyone for permission for its own security, not Transitional Federal Government (TFG) of Somalia or U.S. State Department, or the U.N. This is the power of Puntland – granted, by He who has Absolute Power, Allahu Akbar. Associated Press says Puntland wants to search for oil in Galgala hills. Sure, Puntland has its own oil company. It's called Galgala Oil Company; if what you say is true, please search for oil yourself. Puntland will guarantee the security for all companies who invest in Puntland – Muslim or non-Muslim. No country on earth helped Puntland fight a three-month war in Galgala hills against Al Shabaab terrorists. Now that Puntland won the war, and is improving its security, the complaints about U.N. arms embargo is the discussion? Did the U.N. help Puntland fight a war? Does U.N. protect Puntland officials, who face assassination by Al Shabaab any minute? Oh wait, U.N. officials with three-piece suit are sipping coffee in New York City. We say: Puntland security first, U.N. whining later. Puntland has no time for U.N. whining when its officials are targets. Puntland will not be a sitting duck, waiting for Al Shabaab terrorists to shoot our brilliant men and women, who work hard, who dedicate their life to helping their people. Puntland will never appease terrorists. But those who lie, and say Puntland wants oil in Galgala, please feel free to invest in Galgala and search for this elusive oil. Puntland will guarantee security for all investors. International Crisis Group is a criminal organization based in Brussels. Their meetings are all about how to create violence and conflict in Pakistan, or Venezuela, or Puntland. They are intellectual mercenaries. Puntland has defeated Al Shabaab and Al Qaeda ideology. The remaining Al Shabaab terrorist cells will be dealt with mercilessly. But Puntland, or the Somali people as a whole as the gatekeepers of Islam, will never apologize for our Holy Religion. Puntland is home to Muslims. AP reports that a so-called Muslim country is funding anti-piracy troops being trained in Puntland. Must be the crime of the century! One imagines the three-piece suit man, reading a newspaper in Melbourne or Seattle, who reads the AP version of truth about Puntland's anti-piracy troops. The notion of a "Muslim country" funding troops in Puntland is supposed to scare that man with the suit. He will wonder, he will ask questions, he will have much to fear. So Puntland should have waited for Western donor money to fund its own security? Our deepest apologies, on behalf of Puntland since everyone is convinced Garowe Online is Puntland government. We are sorry. We should have waited. Waited for the terrorists to bomb our homes! We should give terrorists more time to kill educated persons in Puntland. Yes, this is appeasement policy of Western powers – those who declared a war they will never finish. Yes, lets appease the terrorists and say Somalia has U.N. arms embargo. Please don't mention the terrorists who control ports and airports in Baidoa, Marka, Kismayo, Bali Dogle and Barawe. They have airplanes and ships bring them weapons every week. Please, don't mention them because the West appeases such terrorists. No one mention them. How dare you mention them! Mention Puntland! They are under U.N. arms embargo on Somalia. Use Associated Press, to ensure delivery of message in every Western household, everyone should be scared of Puntland security forces being trained and funded by, so-called "Muslim country" and their "zakat fund." Why is this Muslim country so mysterious? Associated Press should respect itself and never allow unconfirmed news to be published. Unless, there are Western governments who are unhappy, who are in fact terrified, Puntland will have helicopters to hunt down Al Shabaab and Al Qaeda terrorists. TFG is a failure – it's a joke among Somali people. Sheikh Sharif is a coward who lives inside of a plane – when he is not inside of a plane, he is asking his best friend Godane to have mercy on Ugandan soldiers serving in Mogadishu. Not asking mercy for his Somali brothers. No one knows what the West wants with Somalia. Maybe Somalia should be a bathroom for Ethiopians to use. Or maybe Somalia should bow down to the power of its enemies, including those in the West, who advocate for continued anarchy in Somalia. This will never be acceptable. Somalis will have their own army, they will rise above expectations, and Africa will be stunned when its hero (Somalia) stands up again. No one has the right or ability to interfere with Puntland's security interests. Puntland will fight its enemies, first and foremost those who advocate assassinations and bombings in Puntland. There will be no mercy for them. Puntland shall never apologize for taking full charge of its own security. But those terrorists in three-piece suit, who wish to see Somalia burn forever and be enslaved by Ethiopians and Ugandans, please remember one truth: Puntland's destiny is already decided. Hate it or love it. Garoweonline Ouch. That site is now turning into a right joke.

It has been a while since I felt the need to write on any subject or expect my words to be received objectively. However, lately, the subject of clans and clannishness has been repeated on this forum several times and some people challenged (albeit half-heartedly) my belief that Clan Is Everything. The discussion concerning Somali clans and the perceived view people have about the clan system itself is, in my opinion, well overdue. But how should one begin to tackle this vast institution and the multitude of contradictions those opposing it display? Though I am still unsure of the path I am going to take here, I believe a start of any kind is better than no start at all. So, let us begin. Now, I may come across as a tad philosophical when discussing clans but I truly cannot see any other way to approach this subject, more so when the charge laid at its door is that it is bad for Somali society. This is why I begin by asking the question, why is it bad and in what way? Those that argue against the clan system claim that it fosters hatred, spreads division and (for some) it is against the faith. Looking at it from a certain angle, all these charges have an element of truth in them. If my clan is at war with a neighbouring clan it is only natural that I would hate that clan (after all, they are killing my kin). If my clan is in dispute with other clans it is also natural that it would choose to distance itself from them and the consequence of that will be clear division. Finally, if my clan goes about killing, maiming and subjugating others for no reason other than its own gratification, it would also be in clear breach of the faith. Yet, none of the above has anything to do with the clan system or clannishness itself. In fact, all these charges can be equally directed at nation states, groups or even a single family. In other words, if my own brother gets killed by my next door neighbour it really is not likely that I will harbour love for that neighbour. And if my own brother kills and maims it will mean that my parents have given birth to a murderer but (surely) it does not mean that my parents are in breach of the faith or that my family should not exist. Better still, if my entire family were a bunch of infidels that kill and maim, it does not mean that we should get rid of the concept of families altogether! In his Muqadimmah, Ibn Khaldun spoke extensively about the clan system and its importance to building a viable state. In fact, he used the term ‘casabiyah’ when speaking about the positive contributions clannism offers to society. Similarly, the prophet of Islam spoke about such casabiyah when he advised that one should supports one’s brother in both right and wrong (the hadeeth of course goes on to explain what right or wrong means but, more importantly, it acknowledges clan existence and allegiance). This also is apparent in the history of the Umayyad Khilafa where the residing Khalifa would gather the best poets in his Majlis (or throne) and ask them to recite poetry praising their own clans, disparaging other clans or comparing the histories of clans in general. The poetic battles were immense and no kind of insult was held back (see the duels between Jareer and Al Farazdaq). However, despite such blatant clannisim the Umayyad dynasty did not suffer and the state were functioning as well as it should. So, and this is to reply to the second charge against the topic of our discussion, clannisim does not destroy states! Some people find the empty boasts about someone’s nasab highly vulgar and consider the idea of clan loyalty a backward trait. However, these same people are also extreme in their support for the Somali nation state and view it as something different, distinct and far removed from clannism. They would fill up with empty pride when they hear Yum-Yum’s Somali ban ahay yet miss the obvious point that this poem is no different to any that exalt certain tribes or clans. The only difference being that the clan here is Somalia rather than reer so and so or reer so and so. This is where the idea of group dynamics, group belonging and group loyalty comes into play. Ibn Khaldun believed (as I am sure most of us do) that without peace and justice no group could survive. The Somali State was made of such groups (and despite the late president’s symbolic ceremony of burying clannisim) it all came down to a lack of peace and justice. The clans themselves were there before the state and, like burning embers under the dust, returned to the fore after the collapse of the state. Now many are again calling for the resurrection of the state whilst (surprisingly) insisting that clannism has no part to play in this equation. They expect people, in a land that is ravaged by war and mistrust, to wander around as individuals and trust words and sentiments rather than a clan that protects, helps and supports! What is even more amazing than the contradictory nationalists are the confused Islamists. They in their part want to completely wipe the clan of the face of the earth and replace it with faith. It is not as if the prophet himself came with the message to an extremely clannish Arab society with the words “Ana Al Nabiyo La Kathib, Ana Ibnu Cabd El Mottalib”! It is not as if he told them that he was sent to complete the best of manners (I paraphrase of course). But were these the manners of the Roman Empire he was talking about or simple Bedouins of Qureesh? And how do they differ from the manners of any of the Muslim clans of today? Is generosity not encouraged, is tightfistedness not frowned upon? Is doing “good” and avoiding “evil” not included? What do the clannish poets mock each other with? Surely not looks alone? Surely they do it by referring to the other clans’ veering from the correct path (of goodness; good faith and good manners). Yet our Shababi preachers disagree. They act as if they are the first group to stumble upon the idea of Islam/Jihad and Ummah. They expect everyone to forget the past and follow them blindly into an uncertain future (but unlike the former president they don’t burry, they dig). What is even more confusing with them is that they too talk of a Somali state run along the lines of Islam. But if that is the case, why not put their guns down and work towards making the clans more Islamic (they are nation states on their own as it is)? Why bother with this whole notion of a SOMALIA? Then again, there are some amongst them that are looking at a bigger picture, one of a far reaching Islamic Ummah that begins in Mogadishu, Kabul and Baghdad and ends in the Canary Islands and Moscow. Ironically, theirs is also a clan. They too follow the same formula of boasting about their good traits and disparaging the bad traits of their enemy. They accept no outside advice and mistrust the intentions of anyone not connected to their ‘group’. They provide no peace and their justice is arbitrary and selective. But because they sing the song of Islam (like the nationalists sing the one about Somalnimo) they expect people to abandon the safety of the clan and come running to them with open arms. In fact, they believe that they have eliminated clannism in the areas they control but if they know their history, they will know such a thing could never happen. Under the ashes of Naxnu Al Shababu Lana Al Ghado, the clan sentiments still burns brightly. Some people accept the existence of clans but argue that such an institution should only exist for reasons of identification. They (rightly) quote the Quranic description of clans and nations where there is an explicit explanation for clans/nations (which is recognition). But could you really have one without the other? Could one belong to a group without venerating it and believing it to be good, is there actually a point in belonging? Surely human nature dictates that one would hold one’s group (family, clan, nation) in high regard and believe that it is as good as others (if not better). This is the logical worldly view. It is one that says “know me, for I am from such and such clan and we are morally good in all we do”. I mean, when was the last time you saw clans boasting about their bad birth (zina), their expertise in thievery or their historic treachery? Was it not Qoom Loot? But the clans of Somalia today are all Muslim and follow the Islamic principles of generosity and respect (even if some amongst them would err from time to time). Is the conflict in Somalia today about belonging to deep rooted clans as opposed to noxious mushrooms, or is it one about mistrust and interests? And, more importantly, is it new? Many on this site actually argue that clans cannot dominate each other. But how do they know that? Has there been a real, concerted and open attempt for one clan to dominate another? Is it not the case that most clans regressed back to their own lands, areas and historical dwellings and most of the disputes took place in unresolved areas? The only time the issue of “domination” raises its ugly head is when clans get together to form states. A case in point being the Galgala dispute (where some from the clan residing there are complaining of a Farole domination). Another is in the SSC conflict where they allege an SL plan to oppress, subjugate and dominate them. But, in the case of Galgala it is not an actual clan trying to control another but a so-called president with a dictatorial streak who is fanning the flames of division there. In not allowing the customary clan apparatus to solve this dispute for him, he stands to weaken that state, plant seeds of mistrust and repeat the mistakes of the former Republic of Somalia. The SSC case is different (and here, I speak with the blinkers fully on). In this one, SL fully understands the clan psychology and is gently approaching the problem with a “hands off” approach. SL realises that it cannot claim its own borders without having the clans residing in those areas fully, happily and consentingly accepting such a state. It also knows that such an outcome could not materialise through the power of the gun but rather through negotiation, diplomatic seduction and clan discourse. Being a “Somali” country, it recognises that without clan consent (even amongst the mischievously named triangle) there will be no State. This is seen through the occasional clan grumbles of not having their correct number of ministers in the cabinet (as happened recently in both SL and the TFG) or when looking at some of the turncoats that are questioning the state now that their preferred government is not in power any more. Lobbies and pressure groups do not exist in Somali politics, only clans do. So, for any government to survive (be it that of Somalia, the 'federal' regional State of Puntland or the recognition-seeking republic of Somaliland) the clans have to be appeased. Clans are everything and will remain so until Somalis accept (understand) this fact and go about creating acceptable clan coalitions, even if that means that the 4.5 system is replaced with a 19.6 one. I can go on but my fingers are starting to hurt....

^^ It is not a fallacy is I've told you all a million times. For some strange reason, you all choose to cover your faces with your hands and avoid such a simple truth. But I will write something. Tomorrow.

Originally posted by Che -Guevara: ^There's possibility it might offer solutions if it's proper in the context. Qabiil in itself is not bad thing but it has been corrupted and abused by first colonial powers and then by Somali state, and lastly by the warlords. It has become a tool for elite to abuse and it no longer benefits the general public, Don't believe a word of that, Che. Clan has always been as it is today. Good, bad and ugly all at the same time. The clan is made up of a collection of humans and humans are not always good. I am tempted to settle this wrong view of clans once and for all. But if I start, I may never stop.