and tolerance towards Dutch people and their way of life should be expected from foreigners!!!!!!

Originally posted by facklexm: Take her back to Somalia and find her a husband, before she gets a passport. The easy and dumb solution, your got rid of your child and you are happy because no one will gossip about you. Few years later, your daughter/son will hate you because you dumped her/him in Somalia with your relatives and screw up with his/her future and education and deprive his/her of a home. It's the most cruel solution some people come up with dealing with their problems.

Originally posted by bilan: makalajabto what is your problem with sharia? how much do you know about sharia? before you start debating about something would not be good idea,if you have basic knowledge about the topic? i mean come on we can tell you till we're blue on the face that some saudi laws has nothing to do with sharia but rather culture,but it would not help you if you already formed your opinion and do not want to learn. about arab women and voting,excuse me where you get your statistics from? even though people vote all the time in western countries but that does not change anything. You didn't kow that arab women do not vote? :eek: The women vote changed a lot in the West, first of all they managed to have the right to vote which wasn't allowed then. Then women succeeded to end (not completely) all forms of discriminations : openning a bank account without their husbands, going to Uni like men, working in all kind of industries, ...... I can't list all the achievements of western women thanks to feminism and other movements. It took more than one hundred years to realise everything all Xalimos in the West benefit from. Our fellow muslims sisters in the Arab World need us. My Problem with Sharia is that the SHaria is from a male perspective hence massive human rights abuses against women in countries where sharia is practiced. Pro-sharia people argue that the problem lies within the country's culture and customs. I disagree completely, not all countries have bad traditions but everywhere there is Sharia Law, there are abuses and discriminations from Nigeria to Indonesia.

Originally posted by Castro: ^ Atheer no one is out to get you. Your opinions are yours and no matter how they were formed, they're bound to change with time. A person's views on any subject is a function of their background, age, experiences, education, and attitude. Don't be so rigid and stick to your guns when someone clearly shows you the flaw in something you may hold dear. Explore the variety of opinions presented here. Read about more views in other sources. Research and understand what people are talking about. If you don't do any of the above, you risk being dismissed as a simpletion (which you're not) but even more importantly, you will go through life having not learned anything and neither have grown mentally or spiritually. This is the best advice you can get on these boards and it's absolutely free. Now make use of it. It was supposed to be .... a joke Castro! Jeez we don't even have the same sense of humour :confused:

Originally posted by Digaale: [QB]Ingrate? You of all people should know that no one does anything nowadays for the sake of kindess. I have a question for you' are you saying that Britain, Canada or America governments found kindess in their heart and wanted to do favor for these refugee, so they brought them here? Kindness' favor' where everyone is a social security number or a simple statistic. You , you should have been left in Somalia. Don't you wanna say thanks to the people who gave you a house, food and put clothes on your back when you and your relatives were the most in need? If that was the case' they would do favor for the homeless black people that are living worse than african countries. Have u ever been in the projects. If Those black people in the projects are so lazy/****** that the only thing they can think of is to deal drugs and raise their children in rundown blocks, there is nothing the world can do for them. It's their own fault, not the white men's burden

Originally posted by ibtisam: Makaljabto: quote: No arab woman has ever voted in her life. really, i beg to differ, and i have evidence. Also there are some arab men that never vote, and guess what else there are countries that vote, but it does not really matter what you vote, the leader has already been decided; you only have to look at Bush first elections. lastly and not least, i don't think voting can be used to decide how free someone is; consider this:Your evidence is BUSH? Only people living in West consider that voting doesn't prove you are free....Ironic is it? What you take for granted Ibtinsam , millions of people only dream of.

Originally posted by Jimcaale: Please forgive me for being bearer of bad news but I think you’re not the first one to carry this message. Sheydaan echoed this very message way before your parents were even born. You see, he preferred pride & arrogance to Allah’s commandments at the time of prophet Adam sc. Consequently, he remains in hellfire eternally. This guy is very smart and vowed to not be alone in there. Misery loves company as they said it. Bissinka :eek:

Originally posted by Xoogsade: quote: . That way, even And finally, I have a question which you may have been asked before, are you a somali? Not to deny you a birth-right but just out of curiousity. [/QB]hayaay waa cajiib , Of course I am somali. Believe me If I wasn't I wouldn't be here. Most of guys here are giving me a hard time: it's like most of them were born in Medieval times or Saudi Arabia, sometimes it sounds like they have been with the Taliban regime in Kabul. I would like to name and shame them but I planed to spend some time here and I'd rather be on good terms with them.

I am happy to see that not all of you are pro-sharia, I was losing hope :cool:

Originally posted by Castro: quote: This is a classic and shameless fear tactic, atheer, and also the closest thing the Dutch can do legally short of standing at the gates and shooing people away. If you're unable to understand that, makalajabti, then indeed waad kala jabtay. Still, The Netherlands are right to select who should be eligible to be a dutch citizen. WHy on Earth they'd let in their country extremist muslims who hate gays and are offended by a naked bather? WOuld you let unashamed gay dutch settling in Somalia and corrupting your people? Would you give foreign people whose morals do not correspond to those of your people gaining citizenship of your beloved muslim country? The Answer is NO.

Originally posted by LaVie: If the Dutch consider themselves liberals then why be duplicitous whereby one group (homosexual) is allowed to practice their rights and another is denied that same freedom (circumcision) and often subjected to offensive treatments. How could you compare Homosexuality and Circumcision? Homosexuality is about two consentant adults and it's none of our business to know what's going on behind closed doors. Circumcision is genital mutilation. It's a crime, a horrible way to mess up with girls private parts, it's a way of controlling women sexuality.

Originally posted by Kafaaxiye: quote:Originally posted by rudy: sxb on this i might have the lead. why don't you ask Makalajabti if she saw her in the club, because last time i saw her, she was in front of a club with a miniskirt. anyway i can help~ :eek: :eek: You don't know me , so wash your mouth out with bleach

Because she is telling some truth. We shouldn't care is she is muslim or not. It is not our business like she said

I told you there is something wrong with the Sharia. We see dramas like this one everyday in the Muslim World

Actually I understand their point, would-be immigrant will see men kissing each other at one point in their life in the Netherlands so they better got accustomed it now, I have seen some somali people cursing every gay couple they come across and giving them bad looks. And they are right about female circumcision (it's a disgusting practice that should not be allowed in any country). The only harsh thing is the knowledge test: Dutch art and paintings are not in every school curriculum around the world. Which means that immigrants should learn a lot more about the country History before they contemplate the thought of settling in the Netherlands.

Some that is God, dear - . He has placed restrictions on the wealthy, the political leadership, employers etc. God said that women shouldn't drive in Saudi Arabia? In muslim countries, most laws are man-made.But they still quote Quran and Hadiths to make their point and pass their laws. Afterwards, you will never hear a muslim authority outside the Kingdom complaining about how the Saudis religious authority hijacked our religion for their weird patriarchal anti-women society. Even here everyone here agrees that women should not be allowed some things. WHat is the difference between the Saudis and You? My point is history has proven that sharia laws fail to produce an egalitarian free society. Unless there is strong affirmative action for women, Sharia should not be applied nowhere in the World. We need to pick up the good things in the Sharia and throw away the "bad" ones like stoning, flogging sinners, dismembering thieves, death penalty and all restrictions on women. What do you reckon? SOmeoe agrees with me? I hope so

Originally posted by Tukaale: ^^Still you are not making any improvement. OK let me get along with you take on your point Who is exactlay taking control over woman? If I may ask so? You are the one who refuses to understand. WHen a society decides what clothes are acceptable for a woman, when there are special laws to limit women right to travel, work, who she should go out with, who she can marry or can't..... I am fed up with teaching the basics to newbies

If Koran gave the right to vote to women, how come they never exercised this right? No arab woman has ever voted in her life. Okkkkkkk you'll say, those arabs are not "real muslims", they don't follow the Islamic teachings. Great, where is the real teaching of islam practised then? on Mars the red Planet? Flip the truth is when one surate gives women the right to vote, another hadith discriminates it, while one other hadith treats them like children. Hence the Taliban regime, the Saudi regimes, That's why no civilised muslim country can apply the whole sharia . Some of these laws are harmless other are harsh and discriminating. It's ****** to make a law that bans women from driving. It's a shame for the muslim world. But I am sure the guy who comes up with this crazy thing will give you all the references to hadith and Islamis teachings on how the saudi governement opted for the ban. They got all the answers :confused:

Originally posted by Tukaale: quote: You are getting the whole concept wrong dear, I see a lot of repetition of woman, I imagice you are female thus have a full right to defend them, Im not but In any case or time I will defend them as well. Bartender, I don't think it's a matter of defending women. There is no misogyny here. It's just that people can't think outside the box. The very fact that people disagree on important matters allow great things to happen. One day a man thought :"hey, slavery is wrong", and then two hundreds years later, indeed slavery was abolished. So I think there should be no control over women' body, whether I got my concept wrong or right, it's just my opinion. I may be wrong, History will tell us.

Originally posted by Xoogsade: [QB] makalajabti , What is your source of knowledge and motivation to determine how you as a woman should behave and act? Remember, the community you are talking to here has its own source of knowledge, its own beleifs and ideals which they hold dear. They will accept what is universal and commonly and will reject anything that contradicts their beleifs. A muslim woman is guided by her own beliefs, her guide is her quranic book and the social norms she has are the direct result of her beliefs. That is what you and others need to understand before they argue and debate. Bottomline, do you have the same background as the people you are talking to? My source of knowledge? well everything I presume like everyone here. But your are being obscure.What background you are talking about, you mean somali people or something else? Who gives you the right to determine when people can argue or not and references to their own background is irrelevant. I am not talking to anyone in particular but expressing my views. What do you think Xoogsade? That all somalians have the same views on everything?

Originally posted by The Flipmode: ^We don't have pure Islamic shariah based countries, so Who does that anyway.. strippers are more civilized i thought You are talking about women' body, again!

Originally posted by HornAfrique: ^So you're saying a woman is equal and free when is allowed to imitate man? Interesting. A woman should be free to imitate man or dolphins, or whatever she wants. Why is some people find this idea challenging? Who gives someone the right to dictate what a woman has to wear, or how she should behave, walk, talk. WHy this permanent control over woman's body and her sexuality? Freakyyyyyyyyyyyy

The Islam World needs more people like the lady. She is saying some truth no muslim wants to deal with.

Originally posted by HornAfrique: Why is it that in (American) feminism and liberalism, a woman considers herself an equal when she is allowed to wear pants but a man does not need to wear a skirt to feel the equal? Because men were born free. No social model and no religion have ever discriminated them against women . They take everything for granted.

Originally posted by Digaale: I read somewhere this and made me think... "Muslims nowadays cannot conceive of behaving like the companions and they will claim that "times have changed" and "we are living in a different reality today". ... Still dismembering criminals and stoning adulterous women is sick and harsh. Come on, we are civilised .