Originally posted by king_450: i am determined to give my valuable vote to Mr Bush to punish those hard headed muslims in Michigan What the... :confused: Let me get the straight, you're going vote for Bush because you want him to 'punish' Muslims? And you're going be spared the 'punishment' because you're a good flag-waving American Muslim (in that order), right? Wow, you're one smart fellow... keep waving that flag. There is a saying which roughly translates to 'wisdom doesn't come overnight'. Evidently, some of us are still waiting.

X, good question. I think I'm most like Bill (and I'm not just saying that because he won). Kwame was calm, cool, and collected but when it comes to deadlines I'm more like Bill; someone who's a perfectionist, panicky, stressed, and looks a little nutty to observers. I worked as the editor of my high school newspaper in my senior year and I remember 'editing' (re-writing) some people's articles beyond belief, to the point where you couldn't even tell if they had written it or I had. That kind of a style is extremely stressful and tends to burn out whoever's in charge, fast!, because he/she is basically doing everyone else's work and their own. I hope Bill learns to relax a bit, otherwise, he might end up jumping out of one of Trump's skyscrapers... in which case, the irony would just be too funny. somealien, lol, I think The Donald is his pet name for his hair. I was wondering if it was a hairpiece, but apparently it's real (he said so on Oprah).

Ah, The Apprentice. When the first episode aired, I was hooked. It's definitely the best reality show I've ever seen... better than Survivor I (which, until last night, was my ultimate). Last week, when there were 4 competitors left, I thought it would come down to Amy and Nick (go figure). After those two got fired together, I knew Bill was going to win. pearl, Omarosa was irritating the hell out of me too. By the way, I saw that Oprah episode. No one called her the n-word... she lied, but where's the surprise in that? To be honest though, the paranoia being displayed by some of you guys is almost laughable because you're making the outcome of the show look racist when that wasn't the case at all. As usual, some people will always scream racism whenever a black man 'fails'. :rolleyes: In reality, folks, 'the man' didn't dupe a brotha of what was rightfully his; kick him out on his behind, without a cold dime to his name, etc. Out of 215 000 applicants, Kwame and Bill came out as the top 2, so they're both winners in my book. I'm sure both learned many lessons from their 13-week-long job interview. Now Bill can start his new career and Kwame will go back to his nice job on Wall St. It's that simple. All's well... :cool:

Originally posted by Khayr: As for the GYM, women there is only 'ONE PART' in the man that needs to work out and that can't be done in the GYM (at least not with other people around ) Akhas Calek. :eek: :mad: Khayr, spare us your repulsive fantasies. This place is called SomaliaOnline not Perverts R'Us.com. Isla yaab and stop publicizing every dirty thought that crosses your mind. Walahi, that guy is so shameless, I feel embarassed for him. Ahemm, but I really don't want to ruin this nice topic, so anyway... D.A., is moderate walking exercise? I walk almost everywhere, so I like to tell myself that’s enough. I’ve never been to the gym and I don’t plan on starting anytime soon. Judging from the remarks of some of my mother’s friends, I may need to gain a few pounds, so I’ll start exercising when I have something to shape. Salaama.

Masha’allah, Sophist, I hope you and the future Mrs. Sophist have a long, healthy, and joyous life together. Meherkiina Allow tiri, Amiin.

^Sooyaal^, the issue is not one of tribe dominance... it's about imparitiality in journalism.

Originally posted by Samurai Warrior: I say so, not to rule out the proposals you put forth, but to perhaps postpone the curing of the malice, and to subject the problem to a pulverising and meticulous examination. Great point. Diagnosis of the problems must always precede the search for a cure. I have my own theories about the roots of Somalia’s ‘infirmity’, as brother Samurai put it, but if an eventual diagnosis of the ailments in Somali polity calls for such close scrutiny (which I think it seriously does), the first question that comes to my mind is how long will it take? At the forefront of my thoughts and, no doubt, those of many others is the simple fact that Somalis have been ‘reaping what they’ve sewn’ for the past 13 years. I’m almost certain some of those faction leaders wouldn’t object to lounging in their hotel suites for another 2 years, but ordinary people in Somalia are still struggling. Time is of the essence. So I think we need to ask ourselves two critical questions, among a torrent of many. Do our people deserve a flawed quick fix (as will come out of the Kenyan conference… if anything comes out of it at all)? Or do they deserve clean, thorough reforms from the ground up? My questions are obviously soaked with personal bias, but my point is that time is a considerable issue in itself. Salaama.

African, Walaal, a lot of silly things get thrown around during the unfortunate charades political debates increasingly turn into these days. Some nomads can’t seem to depart too long with hostility and chauvinism is a special weapon they reserve for the sisters. I think they use it to try to hush the ladies up when all else fails but - in all honesty - it’ll take a lot more to hold the sisters down. Voices of reason often get hushed in the midst of loud chaotic nonsense, so if you’ve issued your official retirement from SOL politics then I look forward to seeing you in the other forums, insha’allah. Originally posted by Mobb_Deep: Sister Yasmine attacks Sophist's personality and character as a whole. She gets into direct personal attacks with the dude na'mean. Mobb, need I remind you that my initial post was - as I’ve previously stated - a critique of Sophist’s writing… not an attack on his character? Need I also remind you that you’re the only one accusing me of having personally attacked the brother? In fact, neither he, nor the other nomads, nor the moderators have done so… which means you stand alone in your baseless accusations. You seem to have formed your own twisted interpretation of the meaning behind my words. I won’t burst your bubble… you’re more than welcome to maintain your grip on that distorted version, but do yourself a favour and stop forcing it upon others. It only reflects poorly on you. Originally posted by Mobb_Deep: Sista Yasmine had some answers. It was just funny to many of us, specially from someone who claimed to be impartial na'mean. We left it at that na'mean. The only laughable thing in the two pages this thread spans is how you repeatedly refer to yourself in the third person… but moving on… Why I even acknowledged your questions to begin with now baffles me, as I see it was a complete waste of time. In fact, as I’m now defending myself against the fallacies conjured up by a wild imagination, responding to you once again seems like an utter waste of time… Wadani, Keen observations, but I think you missed something. Nomad: “You have Emotion in your messages...” Lander: “You do tend to write with a little too much emotion…” Those two brothers will have to excuse me - I didn’t realize emotion was taboo here... But it should be noted that ‘having emotion in one’s writing’ (as stated by Nomad) and ‘writing with emotion’ (as pointed out by Lander) are not one and the same. If any contradiction is to be analyzed, I suggest we start with that. Telling another their writing contains too much ‘emotion’ is vague and indicative of numerous underlying messages, but I think such statements tend to have highly hypocritical undertones. Expressing emotion is not something we can part with easily. We’re human, after all, so it makes little sense to accuse another of displaying something innately embedded in us all. If it’s not emotion that initially evokes nomads to click the “Post Reply” button, then what is? If anything, emotion is something people often go out of their way to express in writing... what other purpose do graemlins/emoticons serve? As I’ve said before, one’s writing is always open for critique here, but the basis of such critiques - I think - should be kept within reasonable limits. ‘Reasonable’ is, I suppose, open for interpretation but I personally wouldn’t go so far as to base my judgments on something as trivial as how much emotion another’s writing contains. Salaama.

^Somealien^, sister, we need more people like your Mom and Aunts around because it takes a lot of courage to do stand up to the wrongs being done in one's cultural community... and, better yet, be vocally against it. May more of our people do the same. :cool: It's disappointing that none or few of our religious leaders speak out against FGM. I've personally never met or even heard of one single religious leader (be they male or female) doing that. It's indicative of how deeply rooted the problem is in Somali society. :confused: Salaama.

Rahima, Walaal, firstly, thanks for the explanation. I understand your stance much better. You’re essentially saying Somali Weyn is an initiative to achieving the quintessential Islamic state because, before the Ummah can unify on a large scale, Muslims have to unify on smaller scales (communal, national, etc.). That’s a valid argument and, to some extent, I agree with it. But I don’t think nationalism, as we’ve known it in the Horn since the mid 20th century, is at all linked to Islam. I view the Somali Weyn ideology as being the Somali equivalent of nationalism. I think it’s important to understand that it’s not an ancient or pristine concept. In reality, it’s a product of the form of political consciousness that came into being during the pre-union years. Exactly how that political consciousness was generated in the former colonies is something that I hope to one-day study and analyze more closely. But what I’m trying to say is, like all other forms of nationalism, Somali Weyn was a construct invented by people with specific political objectives in mind. In the case of the Somali colonies, I think it was articulated as a way to generate public sentiment against colonial presence… in an effort to initiate the struggle for independence on a wider scale. If you look at other nations that were seeking independence from colonialists during the mid 20th century, you’ll notice they all had to forge their own brands of nationalism too. As far being a political tool used for specific means (ex: unify a population, motivate them, generate a specific sentiment, etc.) nationalism worked then and it still does today. Unfortunately, I think nationalism is a relatively malleable concept and it remains a tool for the ruling elite, regardless of what political ideology they’re following. For instance (since you’ve asked me to use examples I’ll use Somalia), during the reign of our first two presidents, Somali Weyn was representative of the nation as a secular democracy. During Siyaad Barre’s rule, however, it came to be associated with a secular socialist dictatorship. The common denominator here being that Somali Weyn has, thus far in recent history, been associated with secularism, not Islam. This is one of the reasons why I’m generally skeptical of the ideology. Although I appreciate the unification aspects of Somali Weyn, I’m not willing to blindly support it until I see it being associated with a government that I approve of. Sister, you’ve said yourself that nationalism is against Islam. Yet, you see Somali Weyn (i.e. Somali nationalism) as being a stepping-stone to an Islamic state. It leads one to ask, how can something that’s against Islam be used to attain an Islamic ideal? Salaamz.

Hibo, congrats or should I say hambalyo? A trip to the Horn as a mentor sounds interesting, I'd like to do something like that some time during the rest of my uni. years. Like many those before me, I'm itching for more details. Please hook us up with a little more info. Thanks.

Buubto, well-said walaal.

(Opps, double post. Wish I could delete this one, but oh well.)

Jazz. I feel evil for asking this question, but here goes... Mom or Dad?

Interesting...

Originally posted by Mobb_Deep: I hope sista Yasmine reads your comment and responds to it na'mean. Abviously there are some logical flaws and inconsistencies in her innocent argument. we wait for her rebuttal na'mean. Mobb, if you see logical flaws and inconsistencies in my posts then I suggest you point them out and explain your rationale for doing so. It's easy to claim another’s reasoning is flawed, but unless you’re willing to systematically challenge those fallacies and counter them with logical arguments of your own - your claims won’t hold any weight. Salaama.

Originally posted by Sophist: I fancy myself as social commentator and as such I comment on social events; especially those some might have excessive emotional ties to it. Well, I think that explains why - at least to me - the majority of the piece is reminiscent of those journalists on certain Somali ‘news’ sites who, when interviewing people, ask leading questions in order to get the answers they want and, thus, paint pictures in accordance with their own views on whatever issue is being discussed. Anyway, I don’t mean to sound harsh; then again, the content of one’s writing is always open for critique here. But I think you already know that… Originally posted by Mobb_Deep: 1. What is your take on the Somali regions that don't want to be part of Somaliland? I am talking about Sool, Sanaag and Cayn. Mobb, Based on my understanding, those 3 regions are within the boundaries of Somaliland and I don’t think anyone’s disputing that fact. So I can understand why the admin in Somaliland is trying to maintain the integrity of the borders upon which they were once recognized. With that said, however, the situation is obviously not the same as it was in 1960. And since there're people who don't want to be a part of Somaliland, then I think it would be best if the leaders of that region tried to resolve that issue before seeking recognition. The manner in which it should be done is something I’ve never really given considerable thought to and would rather not examine at the moment. Originally posted by Mobb_Deep: 2. Have ya ever paid attention to the filth from the likes of Oodweyne and other landers? Ever responded to them? Ever questioned their rationale of wanting to force others (SS&H) to accept Somaliland? First of all, let’s not draw uninvolved third parties into this by dropping names. Have I seen the posts made by some Somalilanders? Yes. Do I respond to them? No, not specifically. Now you can stop right here and accuse me of holding double standards or you can ask why. If you don’t mind me answering a question you didn’t ask, I’ll try to explain why as briefly as I can. In my view, there is a clear distinction between what the Separatists and the Somali Weyn supporters claim to represent. Based on the nature of their political aspirations alone, it’s obvious the separatists are rejecting Somali nationalism, as it was once known. After all, they’re making efforts to form their own country and, consequently, have invented their own brand of nationalism. In keeping with the exclusivity of separatism, I think their tactics lie not only in rejecting the idea of ‘Greater Somalia’, but also pushing away (the views of) those who represent it. That’s what many landers do here - with varying degrees of intensity (although some of the radicals are not helping their cause) – I’m not surprised by it… in fact, it’s somewhat expected. On the other hand, although it occurs repeatedly, what never fails to puzzle me is the manner in which many of the Somali Weyn supporters push back. Instead of upholding the supposedly inclusive principles of their ideology, which claims to seek the unity of all Somalis, they often express their distaste in separatism by antagonizing, belittling, ridiculing, etc., the Somalilanders. I find this baffling… thinking; do they not realize their tactics are counter-productive? When you do such things to a group of people who’re already counting the number of reasons they shouldn’t be a part of you, you’re giving them even more reasons to chart their own course. In my humble opinion, some of the more outspoken Somali Weyn supporters need to reflect on the consequences of their tactics. You can’t push people away with one hand and try to pull them in with the other. It simply doesn’t work. Moreover, it doesn’t do justice to the political philosophy you’re claiming to represent. This is merely the point I was trying to get across to brother Sophist. Salaama.

Originally posted by STOIC: women will eagerly trade freedom for the sake of security.They are obsessed with protection. Don't worry Stoic, this is not meant to be an angry feminist response... There's a lot of truth to what you said. But ask yourself this question. When there's no security, who make the easiest targets? Answer: Women and children are the top two. If you need a reference, look no further than Somalia... for instance, think of what the situation like was in Muqdisho as soon as the old regime fell. Salaama.

Sophist, Of the numerous nouns that come to mind when one thinks of you, ‘intelligent’ is among the more positive ones. Nonetheless, you never fail to disappoint. For one so gifted with words – however necessary or needless - and who appears to have such boundless energy with which to belittle the accomplishments of his political opponents, when it comes to initiating something beyond the typical anti-Somaliland rhetoric, you’re as bankrupt as the less eloquent Somali Weyn spokesmen of SOL. I tell you this not as an insult, but as a potentially helpful suggestion. Believe it or not, most here are not swayed by mere criticism – however, blunt or flowery the language. By pointing to every flaw in Somaliland(ers), regardless of how valid or hyperbolized, you come across as one devoid of genuine concern for all Somalis. If you think you’re doing the Somali Weyn ideology justice, brother, I suggest you think again. As far as I’m concerned, those who sit back and have nothing but praise for Somaliland while they ignore its flaws are hypocrites. And likewise, those who have nothing but criticism for Somaliland while they ignore its accomplishments are hypocrites. Time after time, you’ve criticized Somaliland and those who support it. Yet, not once have I seen you acknowledging its achievements. Worse yet, not once have I seen you initiate a positive discussion - free of deep-seated prejudice and poorly disguised malice - about how to bring Somaliland back into the folds of Somali Weyn. After all, do the prime concerns of those who adhere to your political ideology not lie in ‘uniting Somalis’? I’m assuming it’s obvious there're two types of Somali Weyn supporters on this site: the genuine ones and the hypocrites in disguise who use ‘Somali Weyn’ to mask their hate for Somaliland(ers). I’m also assuming you’re one of the former, but if I’m wrong I can only advice you to come out of the closet. Moving on… Next time, before your fingers start clacking away at the keywords and you formulate yet another idea with which to put old thoughts into new words, I suggest you try to bring something new to the table. The typical - or should I say expected - anti-Somaliland rhetoric being churned out by you and those in your camp is merely adding to the increasing monotony of the politics section. Good luck. PS – I’m not a fortuneteller, but seeing as how your moves in the virtual chess game of SOL politics have become a little more than predicable, I’ll kindly ask you not to respond to this with your usual ‘I don’t discuss politics with women’ attitude… it’s getting a little old. Salaama.

Suldaanka, I think the focus should be put on long-term solutions because giving people condoms is a quick fix. In distributing them, two wrongs are being done. Firstly, people are being given the tools with which to commit sin without worry. And secondly, they're being given false hope in a product that's not always effective. If condoms don't prevent pregnancy 100%, how can they be expected to prevent diseases? In my view, the expenses being incurred in shipping and distributing them is a waste of money, which can be put to better use. Talking to people, encouraging celibacy and monogamy, giving them helpful pamphlets, or posting flyers and signs educating them about sexual health are better options. Moreover, I think Somalis really have to start encouraging each other to visit doctors and have check-ups because it seems like many people hate doing so. They're afraid of what they'll hear and often times they'd rather not know if they have something or not, in which case they run the risk of passing whatever they may have onto others. Salaama.

Originally posted by guraad: SOMALIA MUST STAY UNITED , AND IF WAR WILL KEEP SOMALI UNITED LET IT BE WAR. Please save your absurd remarks for the **** who'd benefit from them. :rolleyes: It appears you've learned absolutely nothing from Somalia's history and that's unfortunate. Salaama. [ March 19, 2004, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: Libaax-Sankataabte ]

Rahima, Walaal, I didn't say the establishment of an Islamic state is arguable. I said the notion that 'Somali Weyn' is in accordance with Islamic thinking is arguable. In my opinion, it's too fuzzy of a concept to say that it’s entirely in agreement with Islamic thought. This may sound odd, but I think people need to define the term ‘Somali’ before anyone can put a finger on exactly who Somali Weyn represents. There are certain elements of Somali Weyn which seem to agree with Islamic ideals. After all, the unification of a slightly scattered Muslim populace is the core principle. I think it’s evident, however, that the concept is concerned mainly with people of one specific ethnicity - those who’re ‘Somali’… roughly 10 or so million people out of over a billion Muslims. There're large non-Somali Muslim populations inhabiting East Africa (Oromo, Sudanese, Afar, etc.) but this particular philosophy could care less about them. As we know, Islam is a very inclusive religion… which is one of the reasons those who adhere to it are so diverse (masha’allah). But I think the exclusive nature of the Somali Weyn ideology tends to contradict with the inclusive principles of Islam. Salaama.

Well, I fail to understand the logic compelling any wadaad to antagonize and alienate members of his own religious community simply because they adhere to a certain political ideology. In the eyes of some, a sort of tactless honesty probably brought his comments forth. But, in all fairness, his remarks were based on personal opinion. It's one thing to share personal views with friends or whomever, but it's another thing to sermonize them into a microphone after Friday prayer. The wadaad has a right to speak freely, particularly on matter which he feels are of great importance, but I think that right is far out-weighed by his moral duty to keep the peace within his religious community. After all, religious leaders have a moral obligation to keep our communities together. In times such as these, when there is constant talk of controversial political issues that have the potential to cause splits within Somali communities, I think they should either be objective - which, understandably, is very difficult - or they should at least remain close-lipped about their political views (i.e. keep those views out of their sermons). It’s not a matter of separating politics and the mosque. It has more to due with the immense role of a religious leader and his moral duty to keep his community together… and by ‘his community’ I mean all Somali Muslims. BTW – I don’t think Muslim religious leaders should promote political ideologies that are based outside Islam. And I think the notion that ‘Somali Weyn’ is in accordance with Islamic thinking is highly arguable. Salaama.

Spadez, That incident was disturbing, but unfortunately worse has taken place both inside and outside the mosques of this city... it’s nothing new. In fact, it goes back to the early 1990s. For instance, after Siyaad Barre’s regime attacked northern cities in ’88 and people fled from those areas, some of the reer waqooyi Somalis in Toronto tried to collect donations for them. But several reer confur wadaads – who honestly should have been leading the cause to help the masaakiin - began to tell the Pakistanis and other Muslims that they shouldn’t give charity to that cause because the other Somalis were liars, they were working with kuffar, the money was going towards kuffar and an un-Islamic cause, etc. That incident was one of the initial instigators to the tensions that exist to this day. A lot has happened since then and it has only added to the problems… the remarks by that wadaad I mentioned are just one of the more recent occurrences. Rahima and Spadez, I’m a little pressed for time right now but I’ll come back soon to share my thoughts… Salaama.

Have you noticed the ideals of how Somali women should look and what their bodies should be like are based around men (getting men's attention, pleasing a future husband, etc.)? FGM and skin-bleaching creams exist for this very purpose. Obviously women are not faultless; in fact they have a large role in propagating these ideals. Who else performs FGM? Men? Think again. And who ordered these women to bleach their skin? Men? I think not. I guess what I'm trying to say is that these things are done for men (and self in some cases). But the fact of the matter is, if women made a collective effort to stop poisoning their minds and stopped abusing the bodies God loaned them... no one would be able force them. If they were strong enough to resist succumbing to distorted social ideals, they'd be much happier. Salaamz.