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Ibtisam

Do Muslim Women Need Saving? The Western crusade to rescue Muslim women has reduced them to a simpl

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it is the curse of being a muslim, woman or not, that you be stuck between scholars who insist that your disfranchisement is the figment of western imagination and lunatics who insist its gods will that you be oppressed.

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Apophis   

Naxar Nugaaleed;985718 wrote:
it is the curse of being a muslim, woman or not, that you be stuck between scholars who insist that your disfranchisement is the figment of western imagination and lunatics who insist its gods will that you be oppressed.

He is a foolish serf, he who loves the Baron's castle more than his mud hut.

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Ibtisam   

We could factor in the fact that most who want to rescue "Muslim women" are [the liberals] neither Christians or Jewish

 

In this context would I be more accurate saying: they will not leave Muslim women alone, until they have them posing naked on a new car, with the slogan "Test drive her now" scrawled on the bottom of that ad.

 

As for book deals, documentaries yad yad ya- I dont know HOW that is relevant in this thread?? Have you read the article I posted? I think not- because this article is about exactly the opposite of what you are saying- and even though you may not like the fact that it is a liberal Arab women who is saying it- you may find that it articulates some of your own thoughts.

 

Safferz: Interesting notes- I dont like Shafik to be honest and Al-Gahazli I agree strongly sometimes, but often I find her a little blinded in her stance.

 

Fundamentally I dont think feminism can be found in Islam regardless of what cultural foundation or watered down interpretations are used. Simply because Islam is quite specific and detailed- leaving little room for redefining while staying within its parameters. Whatever rights that were intended for women were given at that specific time, to a culture which was quite extreme in its treatment of females. Are those rights enough in today's world/society and can they be expanded? I think it is not rights that is lacking, but implementation of those rights- so yes they are enough in today's Muslim society, but no I dont think there is room to expand it. Beyond that it becomes an individual choice- there is never going to be a unified Islamic feminism ideology- and there need not be one. Look how bad "Islamic democracy" is turning out!

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Apophis   

“Fundamentally I dont think feminism can be found in Islam regardless of what cultural foundation or watered down interpretations": Ibti.

 

Yet you post an article which talks about Islamic femininism (whatever that is) as an alternative to what the liberals are pushing? There's a danger that those pushing back against the western liberalism (like the author you posted), have their own version of liberalism they wish to impose.

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Ibtisam   

Apophis: I totally agree and it might well be possible that Leila and I would have a completely different ideas on what or how Muslim women should live their life, but I think what we fundamentally agree on is that it is arrogant for anyone to tell any Muslim women that they are in need of rescuing and if there is a version- it wont be the western liberal version.

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ElPunto   

Safferz;985713 wrote:
Classified, I'm not getting into this with you. This thread is about culture, religion and histories of Western intervention, particularly as it has been experienced in the Muslim world and how the "oppressed Muslim woman" becomes a metaphor and part and parcel of the colonialist logic that leads these countries to these lands
for political and economic aims
. I responded to magicbird to say that there is obviously more to Western imperialism than "they want our way of life" (the fact that most US interventions have been in non-Muslim countries underscores this point) and that quoting a verse of Quran - each verse having a specific context within the text as well as at the time of its relevation - has no relevance to this discussion and cannot be used to reject historical and political analyses of colonialism.

 

Go read Edward Said's "Orientalism" and come back when you're capable of participating in this thread constructively instead of trying to derail discussion into Quranic exegesis, which is not what Ibti's thread is about.

Granted this is not where the OP was going. But the verse has relevance to this topic. This 'crusade' re women in Islam is part and parcel of what the verse is talking about. That Western aka American imperialism is affecting other places or that certain non-Muslim scholars stick up for Muslims or that there is more to 'it' doesn't negate this fact.

 

Ever since the Islamic revival of the 1970's there has been a concerted effort to attack Muslims and Islam on all fronts. And this topic is part of the continuing salvos against the religion.

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YoniZ   

Never buy the notion that, Liberals defend Muslim Women, these leftists/atheists will lung for the case as long as it gives them the pleasure of getting some sort of self esteem.

 

As soon as they loose interest in that topic, they are as spineless as over cooked spaghetti and will start the horse trading practices and, demand you adopt some of their cursed notions into your head in return for the continuity of their services.

 

I will always take the word/stand of a man who believe something than a man who is in constant self doubt and, believe something came from nothing.

 

In my young days, I thought liberal newspapers (the Guardian etal) were the champions of human respect and dignity, when it comes to the suffering of injustice by Muslims. However, I came to the conclusion that, these passionate liberals perfected the role playing-game in away that you won't find out their real motives in a short period.

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Juxa   

Ibti first you should have learnt how to swim? Second difference between akhi and ukhti and finally rescue me

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YoniZ;985849 wrote:
Never buy the notion that, Liberals defend Muslim Women, these leftists/atheists...

anyone who confuses leftest and atheist, please stop there and don't give advice to other, you seem to be confused

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YoniZ   

Naxar Nugaaleed;985862 wrote:
anyone who confuses leftest and atheist, please stop there and don't give advice to other, you seem to be confused

You are entitled to your opinion without dashing personal insults.

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Safferz   

Naxar Nugaaleed;985862 wrote:
anyone who confuses leftest and atheist
, please stop there and don't give advice to other, you seem to be confused

More importantly, I'm baffled that people seem to think leftists and liberals are behind anti-Muslim attitudes and the interventions and attacks on the Muslim world (we can suspend debate over what motivates imperialism for a minute here). The frustration is misplaced and uninformed -- islamophobia and xenophobia is notoriously associated with the right, and folks like Ayaan Hirsi who pander to those attitudes identify as neoconservatives.

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YoniZ   

^ Who said the ones associated with right are not hostile towards Muslims?

 

The point I am making here is most of the liberals in the left (at-least the ones I have seen in UK) preach the love when it suites them and, disappear the moment you need them to take stand.

 

I will have the former Archbishop of Canterbury Dr Rowan Williams defend Muslims above any of these spineless cowards.

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