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Mohammed

Why are Somalis (espeicaly on this forum) separatist?

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Apophis   

xiinfaniin;963297 wrote:
^^lol

 

That is a legalistic jargon that could hardly be understood by most people . Qabiiliiste waa mid ka marka uu maqlo:
tol beelayey, yaa reer hebelahey, tol beelayey
, soo baxa oo hiiliya, wuxuu geysan karana geysta dhib iyo dheef. And that is the version which our Islamic teachings harshly critiqued.

The whole thing is moot because we're trying to inject morality into an amoral sphere. Many, are naive enough to believe politics is game where people are supposed to hold each other's hands singing kumbaya.

 

The harsh reality is, of course, politics has always, and will always be an amoral endeavour where the weak suffer what they must and the strong do what they can.

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^^You are one of the source of Rahima's confusion. Politics is the art of influencing the leadership hence the very livelihood of society. It is not necessarily immoral. The question I was trying to answer or explain was whether engaging in politics and its inherent clan retails is a bad thing.

 

My answer is no. and I made a distinction to alleviate the obvious confusion. Your assertion that politics in its very nature is amoral, and has no regard to rightness or wrongness is misleading at best. See wax leedahay waryee :D :D

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Rahima   

NGONGE;963241 wrote:
Rahima,

 

If you were waiting for your henna to dry then you must have lost use of both hands. If you lost use of both hands how in the world were you typing all of that? Aha, HUGE nose.
:D

You do realise that Henna can be applied however you wish don't you? I don't apply henna to my finger tips, or on my nails. I don't have it on my palms either, just the top part of the hand and half way to the elbow. So, Mr. NG i expect an apology.....

 

 

Xiin,

 

There is a big difference between playful banter and what you write in the politics section. If you believe that being a qabiilist is a repugnant characteristic to have then why act (write) in ways which would suggest that you are? At times your posts are very hateful and whilst i cannot ever know what is your heart, i can make conclusions about your values. To me qabiilism is not to simply to hate another person based on their qabiil but rather encompasses so many other actions/beliefs, such as to only concern yourself with the interests of your qabiil without giving much thought to how it would impact your brothers and sisters who are not of your qabiil. To me qabiilism is to make remarks which denigrate a persons qabiil. You seem to be making light of it but you regularly do all these and more- not to mention that you're always trying to sweep it off as an intellectual debate which is beyond the capability of an emotional young woman with very few neurons (all insults noted BTW). In saying that though Xiin, don't concern yourself with me- worry for yourself and all the young minds you may potentially pollute/ have polluted. If indeed you don't mean to come across as a qabiilist, let me tell you for the umpteenth time YOU DO. For your own sake wax iska badal- you seem to get worse with each passing moment.

 

And i do think these discussions are useless- you and i have been going back and forth on the same things with no progress.

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Rahima;963303 wrote:

 

Xiin,

 

There is a big difference between playful banter and what you write in the politics section. If you believe that being a qabiilist is a repugnant characteristic to have then why act (write) in ways which would suggest that you are? At times your posts are very hateful and whilst i cannot ever know what is your heart, i can make conclusions about your values. To me qabiilism is not to simply to hate another person based on their qabiil but rather encompasses so many other actions/beliefs, such as to only concern yourself with the interests of your qabiil without giving much thought to how it would impact your brothers and sisters who are not of your qabiil. To me qabiilism is to make remarks which denigrate a persons qabiil. You seem to be making light of it but you regularly do all these and more- not to mention that you're always trying to sweep it off as an intellectual debate which is beyond the capability of an emotional young woman with very few neurons (all insults noted BTW). In saying that though Xiin, don't concern yourself with me- worry for yourself and all the young minds you may potentially pollute/ have polluted. If indeed you don't mean to come across as a qabiilist, let me tell you for the umpteenth time YOU DO. For your own sake wax iska badal- you seem to get worse with each passing moment.

 

And i do think these discussions are useless- you and i have been going back and forth on the same things with no progress.

At this point it is fair to say that you are resolved to see me as a qabiiliste :D. Though I am not concern with such a poor judgement of yours against my character, I attempted to educate you about what these discussions may or may not entail. My posts stand for themselves.

 

And yes you are young and inexperienced relative to me; surely your hasty conclusions do nothing but attest to such a novice nature of yours (you have not taken the final vows of age:D ). One day you will find out arguing for federalism is not akin to qabiilism, speaking against the looted properties and those who still hold it is the right thing to do, and defending the territorial integrity of Somalia however impractical it may seem is still a good thing to do. But today is not that day , so go on and believe what you may Rahima.

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Apophis   

xiinfaniin;963302 wrote:
^^You are one of the source of Rahima's confusion.
Politics is the art of influencing the leadership
hence the very livelihood of society. It is not necessarily immoral. The question I was trying to answer or explain was whether engaging in politics and its inherent clan retails is a bad thing.

That would be true if leaders were supernaturally installed and not a product of politics themselves. What I'm saying is: before there's a leader there's politics. And I did not say Immoral, rather, amoral; neither right nor wrong. Thus, for me at least, there's no moral distinction between a "qabilist" and a "non-qabilist". (the latter, in my opinion, can only exist when such a person is utterly ignorant of Somali culture and politics. And no SOL member fulfils such a criteria).

 

My answer is no. and I made a distinction to alleviate the obvious confusion. Your assertion that politics in its very nature is amoral, and has no regard to rightness or wrongness is misleading at best. See wax leedahay waryee
:D
:D

And my assertion still stands. The "right", in politics, is what you can get away with; the "wrong", what you've been caught with. In fact, I would ague a "moral" politician is much more dangerous person than an amoral politician.

 

This simple reality could confuse sheltered individuals who may or may not believe cows give meat willingly.

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^:D :D

 

A question for you Apophis (you seem to be pregnant with a profound thing, this may clarify lol): would you inject same passion in advocating what you perceive to be right for the plight of other communities who just happen to be outside of the regions where your clan reside? For example if federalism or some other notion of governance you care is denied for the people of Hiiraan or Galgaduud would you be there for them (so to speak)?

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Apophis   

xiinfaniin;963309 wrote:
^
:D
:D

 

A question for you Apophis (you seem to be pregnant with a profound thing, this may clarify lol): would you inject same passion in advocating what you perceive to be right for the plight of other communities who just happen to be outside of the regions where your clan reside? For example if federalism or some other notion of governance you care is denied for the people of Hiiraan or Galgaduud would you be there for them (so to speak)?

I don't necessarily believe in self-less altruism but I have supported regions/peoples outside of my clan even ethnicity. For examle, I was very much against the atrocities of Abdulahi Yusuf and Gedi admin for the way they mercilessly cut down reer Mogadishu during their tenure. If Madoobe is elected president in 2016 and he attacks the will of the people of Hiiraan and Galgaduud, I would be against him. I have also supported the right of the Triangle folks to leave the union, the right for Khatuumo to choose their fate.....the examples are endless.

 

But the, real, question was: would I inject the same passion? Of course not, how could I? It is the natural order that I priorities, if you get my gist.

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^^Obviously in your amoral version of politics , there is indeed a dose of morality , if you get my drift :D

 

waa jemce waryaa ee waa inoo galabtay

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^^Your linguestic errors forced me to come back to do the needful: It is 'galab wanaagsan'. gabal wanaagsan is what people like NGONGE say .

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Apophis   

xiinfaniin;963322 wrote:
^^Your linguestic errors forced me to come back to do the needful: It is 'galab wanaagsan'. gabal wanaagsan is what people like NGONGE say .

 

I'm "people like NGONGE" dee, I see no error :D

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Rahima   

xiinfaniin;963305 wrote:
At this point it is fair to say that you are resolved to see me as a qabiiliste
:D
. Though I am not concern with such a poor judgement of yours against my character, I attempted to educate you about what these discussions may or may not entail. My posts stand for themselves.

 

And yes you are young and inexperienced relative to me; surely your hasty conclusions do nothing but attest to such a novice nature of yours (you have not taken the final vows of age:D ). One day you will find out arguing for federalism is not akin to qabiilism, speaking against the looted properties and those who still hold it is the right thing to do, and defending the territorial integrity of Somalia however impractical it may seem is still a good thing to do. But today is not that day , so go on and believe what you may Rahima.

I do and i'm sure many other Somalis irrespective of age would agree with my assessment of your posts. All sane Somalis would agree that any looted properties should be returned but that isn't the point that you're making in your posts- you know that too. All sane Somalis would like to see a safe prosperous Somalia but i can't understand how that can be achieved when we are using a framework that perpetuates one of our biggest problems. I will never be convinced that the current interpretation of federalism (based along qabiil lines) is the way to go.

I'll support it when Mudug is part of the one federal state or when pigs fly. Anyway- I've actually given up on a greater Somalia since seeing that even the young are supporting these qabiil states like they're supporting soccer teams.

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Rahima,

 

ok. you've made some excellent points here. don't ruin it. exist the thread and leave on a high. waa iga taalo. :P:D

 

the more you talk, the more you're likely to say something foolish. too much circulations makes the value go down, ma garatay? :D

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Rahima   

^ Totally agree- got to that point three posts ago but i feel like Mr. Xiin is trying to paint a picture of my argument that isn't true. I just want him to know that i will never be sucked in by the dark side :D

 

Anyway- i have other motives to keep this thread alive. Once i get it i can let it die.

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Rahima;963863 wrote:
^ Totally agree- got to that point three posts ago but i feel like Mr. Xiin is trying to paint a picture of my argument that isn't true. I just want him to know that i will never be sucked in by the dark side
:D

 

Anyway- i have other motives to keep this thread alive. Once i get it i can let it die.

saas miyaa? oo maxa ka mid ah? :cool:

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