Classic Somali literature

[Safferz]

Chimera;941402 wrote:

LOL, to be fair its more of a case where the writer has played with time and put Italian and Portuguese in the same time-line. The indirect source was: "New Arabic documents from Somalia".

Interesting, thank you

 

Chimera;941402 wrote:

I don't think we can make such a judgement on historic Somali literature yet, even the likes of I.M Lewis have admitted that it was impossible for them to acquire access to private libraries. There is still much we don't know, and all the patterns of superiority and prejudice evident in other nations/ethnicities' literature might very well be present in old Somali literature, including looking down on nomadism.

I meant to say that oral literature *is* Somali literature for the most part. There has been Somali writing in other scripts and it's important to point that out because of the widespread assumption that Africans did not write, but it has never been the form of literary production we value as a society. Our literary canon is one of orality, Sayyid Mohamed, Raage Ugaas, Qaman Bulxan, Ali Dhuux, etc. It's just a very different cultural context from those in societies where illiteracy may have been widespread, but saw the writings of people like Alexandre Dumas as their canon nonetheless, despite most of them not being able to access the material.

[Chimera]

What happened to Al-Baraawi, or A. Al-Zayla'i, or Y. Al-Kowneyn, or Al-Qutbi, etc? These scholars had massive followings. I think we should be careful how we depict our ancestors, the colonialist scholars used various degrading extremes, despite our historic experience being multi-dimensional. We were nomads, but we had renowned paramount cities too. We herded live-stock, but we practiced farming and hydraulic engineering too. We built aqals, but we also constructed massive castles and fortresses too. We had tribal warriors, but we had disciplined soldiers clad in chain-mail too. We preferred living in our homeland, yet sustained a large seafaring trade network too, etc

 

You get where I'm going with this?

[Alpha Blondy]

its so sad to have a conversation with yourself, ma isitdhi? especially when its long winded like this. good stuff Adams.

[Safferz]

There is no question we've had a heterogenous historical experience and nomadic pastoralism is not the definite marker of Somaliness, I'm not arguing that. But what I am saying is that arguing the Somali literary canon is not one of orality is a losing argument. The valorization of the written word is something that emerged in a particular moment in European history - Enlightenment thought linking the act of writing to human reason and rationality - and it is only in that Western framework that the written is held in higher regard than the oral. You're right to point out that colonialism used these textual battles as "evidence" of the backwardness of Africans and their incapability of rational thought. But I think your response is defensive, which only reinscribes the supposed primacy of the textual. The Somali mode of literary production is primarily oral literature. There is nothing wrong with that, unless you believe writing is somehow better.

[Wadani]

Safferz;941440 wrote:

Interesting, thank you

 

 

 

I meant to say that oral literature *is* Somali literature for the most part. There has been Somali writing in other scripts and it's important to point that out because of the widespread assumption that Africans did not write, but it has never been the form of literary production we value as a society. Our literary canon is one of orality,

Sayyid Mohamed, Raage Ugaas, Qaman Bulxan, Ali Dhuux

, etc. It's just a very different cultural context from those in societies where illiteracy may have been widespread, but saw the writings of people like Alexandre Dumas as their canon nonetheless, despite most of them not being able to access the material.

What happened to Qawdhan Ducaale, Cabdi Gahayr, Cilmi boodhari, Yowle and Nuur dhagacun? I'm telling ur mom on u, loool.

[Safferz]

Wadani;941501 wrote:

What happened to Qawdhan Ducaale, Cabdi Gahayr, Cilmi boodhari, Yowle and Nuur dhagacun? I'm telling ur mom on u, loool.

lmao I put "etc" for that reason, I was just listing the first widely recognizable names that came to mind. My canon looks a lot different, and includes buranbur poets as well

[Chimera]

Safferz;941497 wrote:

There is no question we've had a heterogenous historical experience and nomadic pastoralism is not the definite marker of Somaliness, I'm not arguing that. But what I am saying is that arguing the Somali literary canon is not one of orality is a losing argument. The valorization of the written word is something that emerged in a particular moment in European history - Enlightenment thought linking the act of writing to human reason and rationality - and it is only in that Western framework that the written is held in higher regard than the oral. You're right to point out that colonialism used these textual battles as "evidence" of the backwardness of Africans and their incapability of rational thought. But I think your response is defensive, which only reinscribes the supposed primacy of the textual. The Somali mode of literary production is primarily oral literature. There is nothing wrong with that, unless you believe writing is somehow better.

The reason I reserve judgement is because the scope and depth of historic Somali literature has barely been touched upon. Remember that we had various important centers of learning that were considered the cream of the crop in Africa, the likes of Mogadishu and Zeila come to mind, and Harar to a certain extent. We know that other hubs like Timbuktu enjoyed a similar reputation, and through extensive research of private libraries hundreds of thousands of manuscripts were recovered. A similar excercise in Somalia would potentially yield great results, and only after studying those manuscripts and their impact on society of each era can we compare one with the other.

[Wadani]

Safferz;941506 wrote:

lmao I put "etc" for that reason, I was just listing the first widely recognizable names that came to mind. My canon looks a lot different, and includes buranbur poets as well

lol, just messin wit u. So name some of the buraanbur poets.

[Safferz]

Chimera;941511 wrote:

The reason I reserve judgement is because the scope and depth of historic Somali literature has barely been touched upon. Remember that we had various important centers of learning that were considered the cream of the crop in Africa, the likes of Mogadishu and Zeila come to mind, and Harar to a certain extent. We know that other hubs like Timbuktu enjoyed a similar reputation, and through extensive research of private libraries hundreds of thousands of manuscripts were recovered. A similar excercise in Somalia would potentially yield great results, and only after studying those manuscripts and their impact on society of each era can we compare one with the other.

I'm not disagreeing with you on the importance of recovering texts, but I find the motivation problematic. It's a recovery project predicated on apologia for being oral, for not having what Westerners would recognize as literary greats, canonical texts and a rich body of literature. We already have all those things in our oral tradition. Even with Timbuktu and its manuscripts, the fact remains that orality is the cultural context for Songhai speaking ethnic groups, and that's the case for Somalis as well.

 

Wadani;941513 wrote:

lol, just messin wit u. So name some of the buraanbur poets.

Hawa Jibril, Halimo Godane, and Raha Ayanle, to name a few from the nationalist era. It's unfortunate that no one remembers the poems composed by women, but their poems are important too.

[SomaliPhilosopher]

I am reading Dhibbanaha aan dhalan right now, so far good read

[Chimera]

Safferz;941630 wrote:

I'm not disagreeing with you on the importance of recovering texts, but I find the motivation problematic. It's a recovery project predicated on apologia for being oral, for not having what Westerners would recognize as literary greats, canonical texts and a rich body of literature.

Umm...that's quite a stretch from what I originally said. I think you're confusing my reference to colonialist tactics with me trying to look for the latter's approval/recognition, when it was their methods I was emphasizing. The same methods post-independence Somali governments and scholars adopted and ran with. In this situation the motivation behind recovering old written literature is justified, as for more than 50 years this important body of work has been horrible neglected in favor of oral literature. If the roles were reversed, I would have been just as passionate about recovering and preserving our oral heritage.

 

Much of Western literature is self-created hype, and the historical audiences of Somali scholars were in Africa, the Middle East and Asia.

 

BTW:

There is nothing wrong with that, unless you believe writing is somehow better.

Written literature is extremely important for subjects such as history, which is what I'm interested in. One of the reasons we have so much material evidence of a rich history in the form of old cities, castles. mosques and art, but little info on the Somali dynasties and States that constructed them is because of the utter neglect towards our homegrown written sources.

 

Oral literature has helped little to shed light on these enigmatic historic episodes.

 

Hawa Jibril, Halimo Godane, and Raha Ayanle, to name a few from the nationalist era. It's unfortunate that no one remembers the poems composed by women, but their poems are important too.

Wouldn't it be a fallacy if I now insinuated that your motivation behind highlighting Somali women writers and poets is to create your own versions of Jane Austin, and the Bronte Sisters, when in fact you are simply emphasizing the importance of studying the Somali experience from a broader perspective?

[SomaliPhilosopher]

Chimera you always wind up in debates lol. your a controversial figure huh?

[Chimera]

Niyow, I thought I was flirting.

[Blessed]

Safferz;941630 wrote:

Hawa Jibril, Halimo Godane, and Raha Ayanle, to name a few from the nationalist era. It's unfortunate that no one remembers the poems composed by women, but their poems are important too.

Indeed. I've personal interest in this topic, can you recommend any books / links addressing Somali women's poetry for me?

[SomaliPhilosopher]

*Blessed;942060 wrote:

Indeed. I've personal interest in this topic, can you recommend any books / links addressing Somali women's poetry for me?

Blessed, heard of Saado cali warsame landcruiser song? though not a poem per say, it is an iconic song. "land cruiser gado soo