Any Lawyers? Law students or graduates that is

[MaLikah]

I think the only person who'se making any sense in this forum is BILAAL. There's absolutely nothing wrong with studying Law, as along as you are moral and ethical about it. Now most of you are looking at the negative aspect of law, what we mostly see on T.V. Beyond that, most of us have very limited knowledge as to what Law entails. It has sooo many domains, not only the Criminal Court aspect. I was speaking with a Law student not too long ago (I was considering studyin it myself, but the hours and the stress-level definitely turned me off). She mentioned that only about 10% of all lawyers actually work in courts. So exactly what do the other 90% do? They work in property, tort, family, commercial, etc, aspects of the law. In this country, where the Muslims are under-represented, we definitely need some in those fields. Those areas doesnt scream HARAAM to me..or maybe I'm jus westernized? :rolleyes: Yeah...thats the simplest answer we Somalis come up with to dismiss something lol....inshallah, we'll outgrow it...someday.

[StarGazer]

Bravo Malikah! aren't u a smart sista!

 

2 of my friends, HIJABIS, are in Law school at my uni. I'm very proud of them, because I know they in turn will contribute significantly to the Ummah here in North America.

[Sophist]

Enough of the Kufr and Haramn stuff! anymore Lawyers?

[Lake Da agony]

Originally posted by MaLikah:

She mentioned that only about 10% of all lawyers actually work in courts. So exactly what do the other 90% do? They work in property, tort, family, commercial, etc, aspects of the law. In this country, where the Muslims are under-represented, we definitely need some in those fields. Those areas doesnt scream HARAAM to me..or maybe I'm jus westernized? :rolleyes: Yeah...thats the simplest answer we Somalis come up with to dismiss something lol....inshallah, we'll outgrow it...someday.

Yeah…that’s true but don’t the other domain such those you mentioned also come to court of law —to settle disagreements, unmet paper work??

[BiLaaL]

It seems as if most of you have simply ignored the contents of my reply, except for two of the sisters. Please don't misunderstand my point, it being, that it is not Haram as long as you're intelligent about you're conduct. As Malikah has pointed out, you might never see the inside of a courtroom, but rather act in an advisory role, as a Barrister. Barristers simply advice straight practicing lawyers about the sort of codes that apply in particular cases, this requires you to specialise in a particular area.

 

It seems to me that most of you are simply not interested in pursuing law as a career, if that is the case then stop being so judgemental, it may discourage another brother or sister who may have sincere ambitions of seriously pursuing this field of study.

[Lake Da agony]

Actually I thought the focus was whether studying criminal lawyer is acceptable in the Islamic religion….thanks in your attempt to enlighten

[Haneefah]

Originally posted by Kaha:

Bravo Malikah! aren't u a smart sista!

I second that. Malikah...very well said dear!

 

BTW, how are things with you miss Kaha?

 

My best friend is actually in her final year doing law. She wants to practice family law Insha'Allah,and plans to work within the Somali community. I honestly don't know where our people get this misconception of law being haraam from. We really need more people in this field as well as in the medical/health professions.

[Khayr]

Originally posted by BiLaaL_07:

There are many examples where European law-givers used principles worked out by islamic jurists in various branches of the British common law.

 

If I am to follow your line of thinking here walaal, then I can interpret what you saying as giving 'Praise to Islam' for British Common Law that takes the ideas of 'Freedom and Liberity' as the ultimate goal of Law and not GOD.

In other words, Islam deserves credit for giving birth to and supporting 'Secular' British Common Law.

 

I think the simplest answer is as follows: A lawyer represents his client in legal matters, thus he takes the rule of the 'wakeel'(attorney). So being a lawyer in the west is perfectly fine as long as the branch of law that you select is one where you're able to practice without breaking the laws of Allah. So you can only be a 'wakeel' for another in pursuing what Islam allows him or that other person to pursue using Islamic means but not where he pursues what the Shari'ah does not recognise as that person's right or via using haram means. For example, representing someone as a practicing lawyer in the west, to buy or sell a car may be OK but not representing him to buy a bar, and so on. Another way of looking at it is: One can represent another to do something which the Shari'ah allows him to do for himself, but not to do something the Shari'ah forbids him doing for himself. And in

representing that person, one must use haram means e.g. avoiding cheating, fraud etc.

The principle is quite simple and straightforward, though the application in

today's world might be difficult and testing.

 

It ain't that 'CRYSTAL CLEAR' saxib as the saying goes

'The road to Hell is paved with GOOD INTENTIONS'

[/QB]

You know the Shariah is not so CUT CLEAR in alot of things and the rules vary based on the circumstance and the person.

 

e.g. A blind thief might not get his hands Chopped off for stealing but a normal every thief might be ordered to get their hands choppped off.

 

You know sometimes in our sincerity and hope for our fellow family members, nomads and muslims to do well in the dunya and akhira, we encourage them to persue certain things that might be harmful to them.

 

Case in pt., I have an uncle and he is looking for a home to buy and him and his xaas are asking me about home prices and how to purchase them since I have some experience in that field.

Now, last year, there was a hot debate about whether buying homes were halal or haram at my aunts house and my uncle was present.

 

Once side was for Haram and the other for Halal.

Anyways to cut it short, a yr. later now I see my uncle and notice that he has shaved his beard and he is living real 'phat' in his new home, not bought but rental and the kids are not raised on ISLAM.

So they ask me to help them with looking for a new home. Well, I got excited and tried to give them some tips.

All along forgetting that it might not be wise to help them b/c ISLAM is not their Priority in

their Household and that by buying a home, they would just be doing it for the DUNYA.

 

I don't know if this makes sense but we do need Lawyers in the muslim community but there are alot of grey and haram things in that field that make you responsible for your actions and most people will get swallowed UP by the TIDES

if they don't have the proper ISLAMIC FOUNDATIONS

and IMAN.

 

Fi Amanallah

[BiLaaL]

Brother Khayr, the contents of my reply to this topic does not imply the following summary of you're reply.

 

"In other words, Islam deserves credit for giving birth to and supporting 'Secular' British Common Law".

 

Rather what i meant to say, is that the British common Law, especially in the field of International Law and Human rights was introducted by Grotuis who studied in Algeria at the time, therefore having strong links to Islamic law, even though he himself and those western law academics do not acknowledge this due to the prejudice of the time of the crusades, which is still with us today.

 

My point is simply this, that no human being can derive laws, especially when it has something to do with human rights, therefore it was imperative for them to add divinely revealed laws. The fact that christianity doesn't embody clear divinely revealed laws that can create order and harmony in society, is a well known fact, so they had no choice but to use islamic law which was clear, detailed and applicable to achieve order and reduce anarchy and choas.

 

I will not argue with you, on the fact that they haven't accepted nor use the principles of Islamic criminal law. It would be naive for us to think that they would, for they do not ascribe to the constitution of Islam which is, (Laa Illaha Ilalah Muhamadu Rasullullah (s.c.w)).

 

One other think you alluded to in you're reply is 'Freedom and Liberty'. These are not as you say alien or contrary to Islamic teaching, Islam introduced these teachings. What they have done is taken it too far, but the concept itself is one which is essentail and its credit lies not on western thought but rather in ISLAM.

 

If i have something out, do reply and let me know, this is something that needs to be explained and understood.

 

The concepts of freedom and democarcy are not alien to Islam, although the west likes to project that image. Islam is the best form of democracy.

[Mombasa_QUEEN]

aim not good in diin but when people talk about diin i'am there and i open my ears to hear about muslim or any kind of religion in there world we had a meeting last week and it was about a aomali lady trying to study the law and there guy approch to her and told her abayo do you even know studying law is haram and she go like why he kept going and going and going but the point he was trying to tell her was studying a law is not haram but being a lawyer is haraam so i think there are alot of different feild we in right now and i think we can incourage most of our muslim bro and sis and tell them being a lawyer is haram. i was going yo major on that but since that day i heard about that i'am majoring in double major psychology and communication and also my school they need a minor so world is tuff but i think we should think and see what is not haram in our muslim religion.

[IntrinsicDove]

Salaams to all the fellow law students.

 

Alhumdulilah Iam studying law/arts and thus Iam intending to use my law degree as the stepping stone to other various feilds. Yeah I also have confronted that dilemma whether to undertake a career as a lawyer and yes various unethical notions do arise when one is practicing within the legal profession. So Iam hoping Insha Allah I specialise in international law and contribute.

[BiLaaL]

Originally posted by IntrinsicDove:

Salaams to all the fellow law students.

 

So Iam hoping Insha Allah I specialise in international law and contribute.

IntrinsicDove, i have found international and humanitarian law to be the safest in terms of areas of law to practice in the west. May Allah make it easy for you. As long as you keep firm and steadfast in you're deen and place you're trust in Allah(the best of trustees), then i'm sure you'll contribute positively and help to slow down the scourge of injustice that faces the world in which we live today.

 

In terms of justice today, let us ponder on the following words of our beloved prophet(s.c.w) and the similarities it holds for todays 'loop-hole' based justice.

 

"Bani Israil was ruined because of this. They applied law to the poor and forgave the rich."

[Sniper]

what a timely question, Sophist i've been having serious thoughts about steering my studies to law, i'm in the third year roughly,i did biology in my most of undergrad time, but as one of my electives i took philosophy and soon i couldnt read anything else, i read The Leviathan,by Hobbes,Republic, by Plato,grounding for metaphysics of morals by Kant, Russell' power, philisophical assays, and many more, so it showed me how government and society are connected, diffrent forms of social contracts, and how law is the center of normal existance,and it ensures checks-and-balances system, even when Allah was creating Adam (us) he told the angels, he gona put humans in charge of planet earth, infact i drew connection how law makes us diffrent from animals, and how it makes us more Godly,(where thomas hobbes argues that we'll be in the state of nature without gov and law) what ever form of law we use is remotely connected to God, becouse it is the law that shapes the application of justice, and it is justice that God uses on choosing good from evil. since understanding that, i realized how us, somalis, we suffered due to the lack of written law that is more powerful than dogmatic beleives, and how lawlessness had that painful effect on us, changing our society for ever, and the reallity hit me, that to write a full constitution we need experts on diffrent disciplines,so that we can ethically live beside each other, and also achieve total equality under the law, where the weak and the strong live next to each other in peaceful way.

So this fall i might make the ultimate decision of taking social science pre-law classes, with the plan of evetually going to law school.

[Xalimopatra]

I remember reading this post before I signed up.

How is everybody doing since then?Degrees completed?Training contracts sought? For our Yanks anyone sit the Bar exam yet?Or perhaps a you've all had a total change in career and life?

 

Sophist-I am happy to say that I am staying in the UK to continue my LLB here and not pursuing Law School in the states when I'm done!

It's amazing what international routes are available for Corporate Lawyers walle!

[Sophist]

Xalimpatra!

 

I am happy for you walaale. I am done with law-- Graduated couple years ago won a contract (Trainee post) with Slaughter an May. However, I decided to forgo that and now I am in the City.

 

In the US, I think you just need to sit the Bar if you have completed your Law degree in UK.

 

Good luck.

 

Sophist