Are Somali’s genetically backward

[Castro]

Centurion, Somalinimo has little to do with it saaxib. And you must separate the (mental and emotional) desire of returning home from the very physical act of doing so. The former my be great and never waning but the latter is a different ballgame. In my view, returning home is a function of five things:

 

1) The age a person left the homeland. Obviously, being born in the diaspora makes the question of returning 'home' kinda moot.

 

2) The connections (relatives, visits, business interests, etc..) they maintain with the homeland. If you left home to work in Dubai and ship merchandise from there while visiting Bossasso or Hargeisa every few weeks, you're very likely to settle at home again.

 

3) The security and economic climate in the homeland. If there's never ending war, famines, floods, and other calamities, it is hard to justify leaving the relative security and prosperity of the west for the raw and real risks of such a homeland.

 

4) The degree to which they build roots (and integrate) in their new home. Those who don't go to school or get no meaningful employment are more likely to return than those who're enjoying the 'American Dream' so to speak.

 

Finally,

 

5) whether they find their new home welcoming and provides the economic and educational opportunities they seek for themselves and their children. You're more likely to return home from Yemen or Ethiopia than the US or the UK. Even the Netherlands (due to racism and lack of employment opportunities) witnessed an exodus of Somalis. And though it's true many of those didn't return to the homeland, it is not likely they left Holland for the UK because they felt more English than Dutch.

 

Personally, I'm not leaving the west until my girls are working and living independently. If I do at all.

[Centurion]

Castro, i beg to differ.

 

Somalinimo is exactely what i am talking about.

 

Somalis in the diaspora come in two groups.

A) Those who feel returning is not an option, and see no reason to do so. This group integrates much more into the societies they live in.

B) Those like me and you, who see returning as imperative. The group to whom 'Somalinimo' is extremely important.

This group again seperates into two, those who are actively seeking to return, and those who are tied down by other responsibilites, but who are just as passionate to return.

 

The circumstances you have just listed, bring forward or put back the re-settlements of particularly those in your boat.

 

Somalinimo is the what compels us to return, when and how are less significant.

[Khalaf]

Return to what? to build help? Bokero started good discussion tho gentics part is off.. somalis are failing big tyme man look at em most on are welfare ....europe is far worse den da states, and all they do is send couple of hunderd dollas back home it would be better to make those ppl self sufficient namean....more can be done its like we aint interested back home ....all they do is argue about politics got no solutions....

 

ps: not to take away from the ppl that help and build back @ home...good job!...ppl shouldnt blame warlords, ect...ask not what your country can do for u but what u can do for your country..asians are inspiring group they all professional, own houses not live in section 8 invest in your kids....ie my little cousin here in states 1yr very smart kidd but wit another family that brougt em here, we want em to live wit us real family and better home...but the family he wit want collect money cause of em..thats how kids get lost they dont have good families its all about the welfare....kids fail sad man...marka its not genetics sxb

 

peace!

[Castro]

Originally posted by Centurion:

Somalinimo is the what compels us to return, when and how are less significant.

That put a smile on my face saaxib. It reminded me of something I said 10 years ago. What would you say if I told you I've not been in the homeland for 18 years and in the previous 11 years to that, I've only visited for 6 to 8 weeks at a time totaling no more than 18 months. Essentially, I've been gone for 29 years. And though I'm not as wretched in my state as Ngonge is ( ), I've been removed from the homeland a long time. This is not atypical of SOL dwellers, of course, but my point is, Somalinimo is an identity that strengthens (or weakens) due to several factors. And though it may influence the desire to return home, it doesn't, alone, decide whether someone actually returns to it. The factors I listed do.

[Alle-ubaahne]

Originally posted by Castro:

quote:Originally posted by Centurion:

Somalinimo is the what compels us to return, when and how are less significant.

That put a smile on my face saaxib. It reminded me of something I said 10 years ago. What would you say if I told you I've not been in the homeland for 18 years and in the previous 11 years to that, I've only visited for 6 to 8 weeks at a time totaling no more than 18 months. Essentially, I've been gone for 29 years. And though I'm not as wretched in my state as Ngonge is (

), I've been removed from the homeland a long time. This is not atypical of SOL dwellers, of course, but my point is, Somalinimo is an identity that strengthens (or weakens) due to several factors. And though it may influence the desire to return home, it doesn't, alone, decide whether someone actually returns to it. The factors I listed do.

29 years in qurbo!!! walaahi that is no less than living a roofless-prison away from your homeland.

 

Shame on NGONGE for he lived in the Qurbo and become the opposite of Castro!

 

I salute you, brother, for your great Somalinimo and wisdom.

[xiinfaniin]

LOL@Val’s three month old shoes.

 

NGONGE, I wasn’t prescribing alternatives for we all know that anything would fare better with our negative tribalism. But I got really curious about how weak the defense put forth was. Look how some people countered when the obvious was pointed at. We do indeed have some fundamental anomaly in our character. And it’s sickening. We have utterly failed to grow out of it. If you observe Somali politics the absurdity of it is quite suffocating. Look at Somaliland and Puntland, two societies who have lived together for centuries. The west tells us that both are peaceful and developing. Yet they don’t have any meaningful relationships to assure us the said stability will not be at the end spoiled. While both comfortably feel at ease with Ethiopia and show no sign of mistrust of it, they sadly look at each other with deepest suspicion. While their leaders frequently travel to faraway capitals, none of them has thus far sat foot on others soil. The trade between them is at a minimal level hence the people-to-people contact is depressingly not at the rate it should be. This has been going on for sixteen years adeer. What gives? How can one explain such an anomaly yaa NGONGE? I somehow find this creative ability that spectacularly succeeds to cultivate and develop a working relationship with other states but miserably fials to have one with own brethren quite uninspiring. It’s odd!

 

Surely there are other more acute conflicts in our continent. Needless to say such civil strives caused far greater casualties than ours. But I some how find them explainable. Ethiopia, Suudaan, Brundi, And Congo all had costly civil wars. The root causes were known and addressed; some were halted by force while others were solved through legitimate means. But Somalis my good brother are still killing each other for no apparent reason. No apparent meaningful reason that is.

 

Castro, aside from semantics I gather you are not disputing the fact that we are indeed back-warded in many ways. Back-warded because we as a society failed to organize and live in a form that’s compatible with the world. Back-warded because we still kill each other more frequently than the rest of other societies in the region. Back-warded because we are divided into segments that proved to be obstacle to make any meaningful development or any progress toward any subject. Why people who were farming yesterday in the deepest jungles of the Dark Continent are today able to have some sort of governance of their own while you are eclipsed in the gloom of anarchy yaa saaxiibi? You the Somali!

 

Dave, one would not blame me for the weakness of my intellect, Hamadani once satirized, if one were assured that I am a man of Hamadan! It become quite normal for us to live in anarchy I suppose and hence any thing that resembles a progress is paraded as a one. Brother, there is some fundamental problem with us. I don’t know how to approach solving it but I can at least acknowledge its existence. We are at the rear of world index when it becomes to development. How you and Caamir attempt to depict this false picture of progress is beyond me adeer. The benchmark should not be at what have been achieved in anarchy by clannish enclaves in the helm of an autonomies region, but rather the yardstick should be held at what could be attained by Somalis as a people and nation. The lack of the latter is an obvious anomaly (in our case) and warrants a debate yaa Dave!

[Centurion]

lol, Castro we are debating in circles around the abstract idea of 'Somalinimo'.

 

I think it's much more than our identity,perhaps i'm reading more into it, but to me it signifies a special love of one's country, a loved entity one's been seperated from for 16 hard years, and who's 'fragrance' reaches us daily in our 'homes' in the Diaspora.

 

I think the harbouring of a realistic dream to return is an integral part of 'Somalinimo', or should be in any case, in all of us.

 

The factors you have mentioned alas, do decide whether you return or not. However Somalinimo will gnaw at those who don't, for like i said it compels us to return to Wadenkeena Hooyo.

 

Xiin you have a way with words, i see . Somali politics today is ironic in its primitiveness, for we see ourselves as superior in intellect to other Africans. We alone are forever stuck in a whirlpool of clannism and anarchy whilst others we see as somehow a baser people are grasping the reins of governance and establishing some sort of organisation in their societies.

I agree with Xiin, what individual groups achieve in Somalia is not something to be particularly proud of, but something which should inspire a sense of melancholy in us, for though we don't lack potential, we lack the tool to temper it with; unity.

[xiinfaniin]

^^Centurion, right on. I agree with you that individual achievement dont matter and we need to evaluate our status holistically. And that's where we failed.

[Castro]

^^ Waaryaada, caawaan inii soo noqon but until then, this Somalinimo business is nationalism and nationalism is not very healthy. Centurion is suffering from 'Diaspora nationalism' and he's going to suffer till he's buried somewhere in Sheffield (many decades from now ). Xiinow, individual achievements are the crux of the matter. We're underachievers individually which translates to our collective under achievement (what you call backwardness).

[Centurion]

Centurion is suffering from 'Diaspora nationalism'

Nay, Castro, i may have romantic notions of the meaning of Somalinimo, but it isn't diaspora related, rather it is inherited.