Women of Jannah

[Muhammad]

Originally posted by Johnny B:

" he is as cute as ´hur al ain´" has NEVER surfaced in the Muslim world literature?

war JBoow maxaad Nin Xurul Cayn ah ku fali Ninyahow?

 

 

ps. sorry didn't ment to edit it there, i was trying to quote!

[Johnny B]

Originally posted by Haseena:

Bismillah

 

Salamu Calaykum

 

Baraka Allah fik brother Muhammd, you said it very well, strange how he didn't answer ur post...oh well, May Allah bless you for ur answer and May he guide all of us

 

wa calaykum salam

This is just for "ukhti" Haseena !!,

I´ve read MOHAMMED´s pretentious post thrice ,

but coulden´t find a direct question towards me.

 

something tells me that YOU "ukhti" Haseena would like Mr JB to address MOHAMMED´s poorly phrased congenital optimism of self-righteousness and challenge the logic of his vacuous analog ,(mind if i call you "ukhti" in Somalihood ?)

 

Ukhti, i´ve been disappointed in his way of reasoning and his conditional analog senarios, so i chose to intentionally skip his post for the moment, not to mention his preposterous and elementry persuasion of "Have a fight instead of thinking and asking questions " , a direct insult to every human beeing with a brain if u ask me.

Worse is he seems not be able to answer weather there are male 'hur al ain' or not, but he is not alone , i she?

Heyyyyy "ukhti" ,MOHAMMED is not the subject here , so i hope you´re satisfied with my wrapup about Mohammed´s previous post.

 

Originally posted by m u h a m m a d:

war JBoow maxaad Nin Xurul Cayn ah ku fali

Ninyahow

?

 

 

ps. sorry didn't ment to edit it there, i was trying to quote!

Good Question Mohammed !!

Had it not been a bright Nomad os SOL by the nick CASTRO and his noble eddort of taking the homophopia out of the SOL wanna be machos, you could imply that me and a 'MALE hur al ain' got issues , but thanks to CASTRO i survive your ill-thoughts.

 

MOHAMMED bro in "Somalihood",

I´m defintely satisfied with the women of this world and i surely go for them as is without warranty,

without dreaming the 10X prettier, hotter ones the Proud Muslimah promisses.

So your Question is surely towards the god fearing sister.

[Salafi_Online]

[ he is as cute as ´hur al ain´ has NEVER surfaced in the Muslim world literature?]

 

Brother Jb, the fact remains, no one has seen a hur al Ain since they are mates prepared for the people of paradise. Allah said<" Verily, those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names...While they have no knowledge thereof. They follow but a guess, and verily, guess is no substitute for the truth."

 

Lets not guess.

[Haneefah]

Originally posted by Foxy:

so I guess its forbidden to ask and seek answers in regards to the religion

No sis, don't guess! You have every right to ask questions and seek clarification on issues you may not be familiar with. In fact it is an obligation on every Muslim to seek knowledge about their Deen. Therefore, you shouldn't be discouraged by any arguments you come across here Insha'Allah.

 

JB...Let me begin by saying May Allah swt Guide you to the truth. As far as this issue of hur-al-ain that you seem to be fixated on is concerned, well, you're trying to challenge the nomads without having sound evidence to back up your statements. For the 10th time, how do you know there will be no male hur-al-ain present in Jannah? As Muslims, we only know that which Allah, the all Mighty, has revealed to us and that which He has kept a secret from us, only He knows and it is not for us to make insinuations of any sort.

[Cara.]

Muhammad,

 

You, for example, Don't believe in Allah, which means you don't believe in Aakhirah, then how can one explain to you about Jannah, try and put water in a cup that is up side down.

This is a fair question, I think. My answer would be that analysing what is said about a god (his attributes, his rewards and punishments and accomplishments) is the only way any mortal has in determining whether such a god exists. If I am told that a Compassionate and perfectly Just God rewards men and women differently, than I have to wonder whether this God is either NOT compassionate and just, or whether people are making him up.

 

As an example, I wanted to find out whether male hooris exist, never having thought about the matter before. But this hadith leaped out at me, and I think it's actually more relevant to the discussion:

 

 

“The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) went out to the Musalla on the day of Eid al-Adha or Eid al-Fitr. He passed by the women and said, ‘O women! Give charity, for I have seen that you form the majority of the people of Hell.’ They asked, ‘Why is that, O Messenger of Allaah?’ He replied, ‘You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religious commitment than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you.’ The women asked, ‘O Messenger of Allaah, what is deficient in our intelligence and religious commitment?’ He said, ‘Is not the testimony of two women equal to the testimony of one man?’ They said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Is it not true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is the deficiency in her religious commitment.’â€

 

Variations on this hadith exist (another one actually lists three "deficiencies", while yet another merely states that women are ungrateful to their husbands) but it's in Sahih al-Bukhari so it's authentic.

 

Why would I believe that a just and compassionate god would be more likely to throw me in hell just because I was born a woman rather than a man?

[- Femme -]

[Edited]

[Johnny B]

Originally posted by Salafi da'wa:

Brother Jb, the fact remains, no one has seen a hur al Ain since they are mates prepared for the people of paradise.

 

Lets not guess.

Brother SALAFI, Are you telling me not to beleive in 'Hur ain' becouse no one has seen them? or are you telling me that since no one has seem them they could be male or female or BOTH?

Brother Salafi, I´m not guessing anything , i just stated a Question.

Why there are no MALE 'hur al ain' for the god fearing sisters.?

 

Originally posted by Abrar:

JB...As far as this issue of hur-al-ain that you seem to be fixated on is concerned, well,

you're trying to challenge the nomads without having sound evidence to back up your statements.

For the 10th time,

how do you know there will be no male hur-al-ain present in Jannah?

As Muslims, we only know that which Allah, the all Mighty, has revealed to us and that which He has a secret from us, only He knows and it is not for us to make insinuations of any sort.

Bro Abrar, you´re deliberately making merry in your OWN coarseness.

You´r beeing told that the Quran doesn´t mention a male 'hur al ain' and you keep asking ME to answer how do i know that?

am sorry if i assumed wrong, but i thought you were kicking from a theist´s corner.

You see i´m not trying to challenge the nomads , the Quran is doing that.

[Proud_Muslimah2]

Why would I believe that a just and compassionate god would be more likely to throw me in hell just because I was born a woman rather than a man? [/QB]

Did you even read the hadith first of all or do you have trouble understanding it? Where in that hadith does it specifically say Allah (SWT) will throw you in to the hell-fire just because you are a "women"? Does it not say more women will be in the hell-fire because of such-and-such?

 

There are many different narrations to this hadith (never heard of the one you have posted though...will do some research on it)

 

It was narrated that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I was shown Hell and I have never seen anything more terrifying than it. And I saw that the majority of its people are women.†They said, “Why, O Messenger of Allaah?†He said, “Because of their ingratitude (kufr).†It was said, “Are they ungrateful to Allaah?†He said, “They are ungrateful to their companions (husbands) and ungrateful for good treatment. If you are kind to one of them for a lifetime then she sees one (undesirable) thing in you, she will say, ‘I have never had anything good from you.’†(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1052)

 

As you can see, the reason for why women will be the majority in the hell-fire is not "just because they are women" but rather because of how they are ungrateful to their husbands and how when they see one undesirable thing in them...they will deny anything good their husbands did for them!

 

Insh'Allah (God Willing) I will try to answer your question in more details next time as I'm in a rush.

 

JB, since you already KNOW that a woman CAN choose to have a hurul'ain if she desires then what's your problem? :confused: So what if it's not mentioned in the Qur'an? If we already KNOW that we can, isn't that good enough? :confused:

[Muhammad]

JB'yow labo kuu daayay, Ingliish iyo ku Dagaalankiisa!

 

dear Callypso,

 

you said,

"My answer would be that analysing what is said about a god (his attributes, his rewards and punishments and accomplishments) is the only way any mortal has in determining whether such a god exists. "

 

even though I don't agree that the only way to 'know' God is by studying 'what is said about Him', if we follow that thought, then lets clarify few things first,

 

since we are speaking of Islam;

 

the God is - Allah(swt) The One.

 

and if we want to 'Know' Him by studying what others have said, if we are fair, we can only use(trust) two Sources;

 

- the Quraan; the Words of Allah(swt) i.e. In His Own Worlds!

 

- the Sunnah; authentic tradition of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh).

 

 

then you said:

"If I am told that a Compassionate and perfectly Just God rewards men and women differently, than I have to wonder whether this God is either NOT compassionate and just, or whether people are making him up."

 

now I would like to know, where in The Quraan and the Sunnah, it clearly says that Allah(swt) The Just, The Compassionate, rewards men and women differently simply because of Gender?

 

hence, I take it you were refering to God in Islaam, and you ment that God favors one Gender from the other, because one can reward two people differently, but in equal measure. If both of these assumptions are not correct, there is no need for a reply.

 

 

then, after quoting a Hadith, you said;

 

"Why would I believe that a just and compassionate god would be more likely to throw me in hell just because I was born a woman rather than a man?"

 

You shouldn't!!

 

 

Nabad

[Johnny B]

Originally posted by *Proud_Muslimah*:

As you can see, the reason for why women will be the majority in the hell-fire is not "just because they are women" but rather because of how they are

ungrateful to their husbands.

Proud one , To be frank , i don´t like the idea of this particular gender namely Women beeing the majority in the hell-fire, but what i like or dislike is personal so i can live with it.

What raises my eyeborrow is that the reason YOU give "they´ll be thrown in hell-fire becouse they´re 'ungrateful' to their hubbies."

 

Now is that sound argument?

I give you the last word there

 

Originally posted by *Proud_Muslimah*:

JB, since you already

KNOW that a woman

CAN

choose to have a hurul'ain if she desires then what's your problem? :confused:

So what if it's not mentioned in the Qur'an?

If we already

KNOW

that we can, isn't that good enough? :confused:

A slight misunderstanding is in order sis, i know woman canmake a choice but you´re missing the point ,a Male 'Hur al ain' is not on the Menu.

 

Sister , my point was all the time , No Male hur al ain are mentioned in the Quran or in the hadith therefore the sisters are left a choice shorter, i hope you see my point now.

 

Proud one , I do agree with you women should have a male hur al ain if they wanted to , but since it is not mentioned in the Quran , it looks like you and i are making it up , but i do agree with you , it should be obvious that if Men can have female Hur al ain , so can women have a male hur al ain.

 

MUHAMMED ... Adna Aragti dheeri ku daayay (GRAAD)!!

[Foxy]

Proud one , To be frank , i don´t like the idea of this particular gender namely Women beeing the majority in the hell-fire, but what i like or dislike is personal so i can live with it.

 

its unfair and wierd of the religion to place more of the female popuation in never ending hell, One wonders why, when most of these muslim women are following thr religion, may be this so called man made haddiths are all anti women.....I dont know.......Why is it its always its women that lead to hell and its door ways, I am far from being religiuos, but one must ask themselves the reasoning behind the philosephies......One will come to the conclusion that the whole religion caters to a man's world....

 

 

cheers

[Miriam1]

How sweet is one's Iman in Allah (swt)

 

its unfair and wierd of the religion to place more of the female popuation in never ending hell, One wonders why, when most of these muslim women are following thr religion, may be this so called man made haddiths are all anti women.....I dont know.......Why is it its always its women that lead to hell and its door ways, I am far from being religiuos, but one must ask themselves the reasoning behind the philosephies......One will come to the conclusion that the whole religion caters to a man's world....

I am not a big fan of such discussions. I believe a person who sincerely wishes to learn/question certain aspects of the religion should forget about coming to online forums and do the research on thier own and with learned people, that they understand and respect.

What made reply to your post Foxy is the experiences of countless MSA meetings, that one specific hadith brings arugments/divisions and a hundreds of questions. As I have understood it, The hadith has specific historical references, that cannot apply to every believeing, practising muslim woman in our world today.

Sometimes I beleive people forget the greatness of Allah (swt), how merciful and just he is. If a Muslim woman was taught wrong by a 'anti women' sheikh, wouldnt the punishment be for the 'anti women' sheikh? Why would the innocent recieve hellfire?

 

I am out.

 

Faith.

[Proud_Muslimah2]

Peace JB,

 

"What raises my eyeborrow is that the reason YOU give "they´ll be thrown in hell-fire becouse they´re 'ungrateful' to their hubbies.""

 

In order to get a clear understanding for the reason behind this...you need to study the rights a husband and a wife have over eachother!

 

In Islam there is absolutely no difference between men and women as far as their relationship to God is concerned, as both are promised the same reward for good conduct and the same punishment for evil conduct. The Qur'an says:

 

And for women are rights over men similar to those of men over women. (2:226)

 

The Qur'an, in addressing the believers, often uses the expression,'believing men and women' to emphasize the equality of men and women in regard to their respective duties, rights, virtues and merits. It says:

 

For Muslim men and women, for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in charity, for men and women who fast, for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in God's praise, for them has God prepared forgiveness and great reward. (33:35)

 

The Qur'an admonishes those men who oppress or ill-treat women:

 

O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should you treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the dowry you have given them - except when they have become guilty of open lewdness. On the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If you take a dislike to them, it may be that you dislike something and God will bring about through it a great deal of good. (4:19)

 

Considering the fact that before the advent of Islam the pagan Arabs used to bury their female children alive, make women dance naked in the vicinity of the Ka'ba during their annual fairs, and treat women as mere chattels and objects of sexual pleasure -- possessing no rights or position whatsoever, these teachings of the Noble Qur'an were revolutionary. Unlike other religions, which regarded women as being possessed of inherent sin and wickedness, and men as being possessed of inherent virtue and nobility, Islam regards men and women as being of the same essence created from a single soul. The Qur'an declares:

 

O mankind! Reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, his mate, and from this pair scattered (like seeds) countless men and women. Reverence God, through Whom you demand your mutual (rights), and reverence the wombs (that bore you); for God ever watches over you. (4:1)

 

The Prophet of Islam, peace be upon him, said, "Women are the twin halves of men". The Qur'an emphasizes the essential unity of men and women in a most beautiful simile:

 

They (your wives) are your garment and you are a garment for them. (2:187)

 

The Prophet (saw) said, "Fear God regarding women. Verily you have married them with the trust of God, and made their bodies lawful with the word of God. You have got (rights) over them, and they have got (rights) over you in respect of their food and clothing according to your means."

 

The predominant idea in the teachings of Islam with regard to men and women is that a husband and wife should be full-fledged partners in making their home a happy and prosperous place, and that they should be loyal and faithful (OBEDIENT) to one another, and genuinely interested in each other's welfare and the welfare of their children.

 

A woman is expected to exercise a humanizing influence over her husband and to soften the sternness inherent in his nature. A man is enjoined to educate the women in his care so that they cultivate the qualities in which they, by their very nature, excel.

 

The Prophet (saw) said "Among my followers the best of men are those who are best to their wives, and the best of women are those who are best to their husbands. To each of such women is set down a reward equivalent to the reward of a thousand martyrs. Among my followers, again, the best of women are those who assist their husbands in their work, and love them dearly for everything, save what is a transgression of God's laws."

 

A husband works hard to make money in order to support both the wife and his kids, hence this being the reason to why women are asked to be

obedient to their husbands! And since women do the housework, look after the husband's kids...etc...etc, the husband is asked to treat his wife respectfully!

 

Allah (SWT) says, " ... the wife's rights (with regard to their husbands) are equal to the (husband's) rights with regard to them, although men are a degree above them; and Allah is Almighty, Wise.

 

Qur'an [2 : 228]

 

The statement that men are a degree above women means that authority within the household has been give to the husband in preference to the wife because a heavier burden has been placed on his shoulders by another verse of the Quran which says:

 

Men shall take full care of women, because Allah has given the one more strength than the other, and because they support them from their means.Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard ...

 

Qur'an [4 : 34]

 

Shiekh 'Abdur Rahman I. Doi (Professor and Director, Center for Islamic Legal Studies) writes concerning this issue

 

"The Shari'ah (Islamic Law) regards women as the spiritual and intellectual equals of men. The main distinction it makes between them is in the physical realm based on the equitable principle of fair division of labor. It allots the more strenuous work to the man and makes him responsible for the maintenance of the family."

 

Shiekh 'Abdur Rahman I. Doi also write

 

"It allots the work of managing the home and the upbringing and training of children to the woman, work which has the greatest importance in the task of building a healthy and prosperous society"

 

Once Mu'awiyah asked the Prophet, peace be upon him: "What are the rights that a wife has over her husband?" The Prophet, peace be upon him, replied: "Feed her when you take your food, give her clothes to wear when you wear clothes, refrain from giving her a slap on the face or abusing her, and do not separate from your wife, except within the house." Once a woman came to the Prophet, peace be upon him, with a complaint against her husband. He told her: "There is no woman who removes something to replace it in its proper place, with a view to tidying her husband's house, but that God sets it down as a virtue for her. Nor is there a man who walks with his wife hand-in-hand, but that God sets it down as a virtue for him; and if he puts his arm round her shoulder in love, his virtue is increased tenfold." Once he was heard praising the women of the tribe of Quraish, saying: " . . . because they are the kindest to their children while they are infants and because they keep a careful watch over the belongings of their husbands."

 

You wrote:

 

"A slight misunderstanding is in order sis, i know woman canmake a choice but you´re missing the point ,a Male 'Hur al ain' is not on the Menu.

 

Sister , my point was all the time , No Male hur al ain are mentioned in the Quran or in the hadith therefore the sisters are left a choice shorter, i hope you see my point now.

 

Proud one , I do agree with you women should have a male hur al ain if they wanted to , but since it is not mentioned in the Quran , it looks like you and i are making it up , but i do agree with you , it should be obvious that if Men can have female Hur al ain , so can women have a male hur al ain"

 

Your first two paragraphs and your last contradict eachother!

 

How on earth do you know that a male hurul'ain is NOT on the list of what women CAN have in Jannah? Does the Qur'an not say that the believers who will enter Jannah WILL have ANYTHING they desire?

[Khayr]

Salamz,

 

Originally posted by Johnny B:

quote:Originally posted by fat boy:

isn't also said that there will be fewer women entering janah than men?

Even if that is somehow acceptable , The ones that make to Jannah will never have " hur Ain" like their male counterparts ,as there is no

male Hur ain"

 

wonder why ?

Hmmm, Johnny B and Fatboy do I detect a particular biassssness towards Islam or for that matter RELIGION, for why else would you de-rail and HIJACK this topic to serve your own biasesss.

 

 

 

Why would I believe that a just and compassionate god would be more likely to throw me in hell just because I was born a woman rather than a man?

Callypso,

 

GOD is not SENTIMENTAL contrary to what most people today would like GOD to be...a PERSONAL, SENTIMENTALIZED GOD.

 

GOD's Rahhmaaa (COMPASSION) does not need the APPROVAL of you and I, to condsir it RAHHMAAA(COMPASSION). For if the was the case, then there would be no EVIL and ALL GOOD...then we would never really be able to define WHAT IS GOOD then because some of that GOOD would be negated into (GOOD, GOODER,ABSOLUTE GOOD etc.)

 

GOD'S JUSITCE, ADL, is not limited in the same way. GOD's WILL is always GREATER and you and I can not fathom it. For GOD, to be GOD, HE has to exercise his ATTRIBUTES which are INFINITE and that is not subject to the approval of his 'CREATION'...i.e. OK, GOD, you can do that (IS NOT WHAT ISLAM TEACHES)

 

But wait, this is an explanation for people who believe in a RELIGION, what if you are an AGNOSTIC or an ATHIEST...

 

then ask yourself this

 

DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH AUTHORITY?

 

LIMITS BEING SET ON YOUR PERSONAL LIFE?

 

Fi Amanillah

[FatB]

ay-ya -yaa!!!!

 

its like talking to brick walls.