why we are living in shame

[Sharmarkee]

Originally posted by -Nomadique-:

Originally posted by NGONGE:

You're proud to be Somali yet you're living in shame! What an exquisite quandary.

 

Does the nonsense never end?

LOOL Classic.

 

^^^^Ngonge's Guided missles, ka gaboo yanay ku dhinci, the eagle is landing

[Peacenow]

This really doesn't suprise me. Confirmation, that some Somalis have accepted occupation and it's consequences.

In 30 years, a Ethiopian child will taunt a Somali child, and say, we owned you.

 

I will have a full reply, tommorow when I have more time for this.

[Fabregas]

Ngonge, nobody can predict what will happen in Somalia's future. Many variables can and will change as they have done in the past.Who would have thought Southern Somali would controlled by an Islamic militia?Who would have predicted Ethiopia would be occupying Somalia in the year 2007?Who predicted the Islamic courts would crumble so easily?If you are expecting a scientific formula on the chances of a successful so called insurgency,than am afraid you need to consult the International relations department at Chicago university!

 

For all we know the Absynians could leave Somalia.Maybe Somalia will become stable after this or it will resort to clan violence once again.If this happen will the International community(America) watch ?Maybe the Abysnians will stay in the longrun and a deadly insurgency will develop.The question should not be whether or not the "rag tag"insurgents will make the occupiers flee.Rather,if they engage in a long and brutal uprising.Can the Absynians sustain this and more importantly how will this impact the T.F.G.? Personally, i don't think the Ethiopians will stay for a long time.Or at least this is the impression i get, given the scenarios in Iraq and Afghanistan.And the relative ease of bribing Somali clan leaders to work on her behalf.This also depends on getting fringe clan elements and islamist on board with the government agenda.However most of my assertations are based on pure speculation, simply because i don't fully understand the mindset of the population back home!Any political entity in Somalia, be they, the Ethiopians, Islamic militias and Government will largely depend on this factor......The uprising in Iraq developed because of the marginilisation of the Sunni community....In Somalia, the Ethiopians and T.F.G know that their success depends on not alienating particular clans ie giving them their fair share of the baris and basto.....if you know what i mean.....

[Chimera]

Originally posted by peacenow:

This really doesn't suprise me. Confirmation, that some Somalis have accepted occupation and it's consequences.

In 30 years, a Ethiopian child will taunt a Somali child, and say, we owned you.

 

I will have a full reply, tommorow when I have more time for this.

Funny thing is, exactly 30 years ago Ethiopians were going through the same shame as we are currently going through, Somali troops were occupying O-gaden aswell as Sidamo and Bale consilidating their new conquered territories by opening schools and buildin wells. I wonder what they felt at that time, being complety defeated having nothing to counter the advance, being literally threatened to be wiped off the map and being occuppied for 9 months straight

 

2030 will be our era brother..

[NGONGE]

Ooewdyne,

Heh. Ooh! After all those ghastly mushrooms here comes my tree! Naturally, of course, I’m going to fully enjoy picking out all the overhanging ripe fruits that I see before me, and if it proves to be a tall order, I hereby promise that the phrase: Sour Grapes shall not escape my lips. So long, wretched mushrooms, so long.

 

 

The exquisite quandary was a mere putdown, my friend. One that was fully justified in the circumstances. Here we had someone who simultaneously initiated two strange threads (one about pride and the other about shame)! Leaving aside the moot arguments about nations having pride or living in shame, the simple fact that he chose to start those two threads concurrently implies this person’s state of mind. He’s in a pickle, a fix and a tight spot! A proud Somali, living in shame! Do you follow? An exquisite quandary, wouldn’t you say?

 

Now, before I continue to answer your main question, I would like some guarantees, saaxib. Lets make this discussion a serious one with no need for chicanery and twisting of the facts. More importantly, lets drop the lopsided analogies.

 

Though I normally would not waste time on the French example you gave above (for it’s totally wrong) I feel it’s only fair that I point out its unsuitability to the argument we’re having here (for the benefit of the reading public if nothing else). The French were at war with Germany; they lost. The Somalis, at the time when they 'invited' the Ethiopian troops to Somalia, were not at war. The reasons Germany invaded and occupied France are not in any shape or form similar to the reasons Ethiopia sent its troops to Somalia (I don’t expect you to talk about some great Ethiopian Master Plan, but if you do then please come with proofs for I don’t do tittle-tattle).

 

Never mind. I am sure that non of the above was the reason that got you eagerly replying to this thread. As you clearly said in your last reply, you wanted to understand the logic behind my suggestion that the TFG shall prevail. Very well, and sidestepping your little barb about the genuineness of my legendary fence-sitting, allow me to STATE - THE - BLATANTLY - OBVIOUS!

 

 

As things stand, the TFG has the support of the main players in the world. It has a standing army and the practical support of two other foreign armies (three, if the US feels like bombing anyone again). It is supported by a considerable number of the populace (Puntland is not that small). The TFG is also in control of the capital city of Somalia (granted that some would derisively laugh at the use of the word 'control', but the moral victory of having a president residing at the presidential villa should not be discounted).

 

Now, most governments are not usually measured by their achievements, victories, reforms or durability. No, they are almost always measured by the strength of their opposition. Let us look at what forms an opposition to the TFG.

 

Well, first we have the Islamic Courts but are they really a strong, viable and real opposition now? Bleat as anyone might, the resounding and collective reply will be a clear and unambiguous NO.

This of course is not due to a lack of effort, desire or application on the part of the Courts. It’s more to do with the shortage of outside (strong) support, real weapons and organisation. The Courts as we used to know them are, sadly, a spent force. Whatever is left of them will no doubt carry on fighting the good fight and being a thorn in the government’s side but they’re not big enough or strong enough to win. Many romantic types will argue that these insurgents will do exactly what their brothers in Iraq or Afghanistan are doing. But, this is not Iraq or Afghanistan, this is Somalia. The glare of the world media does not shine as brightly in our part of the world and the unscrupulous actions of the TFG (and their allies) will not cause as much outrage (in the world) as it does when it takes place in Iraq or Afghanistan. This means, as I’m sure you understand now, that the TFG and it’s allies have a free hand to deal with and crush any resistance in whatever way they deem effective or necessary, without having to worry about human rights, world opinion or any other basic ethical considerations.

 

 

The second opposition group that the TFG had was the warlords. They are, for now, a very content part of the government and offer no immediate threat. The third opposition group is Somaliland, and that entity also offers no immediate threat nor is it overly concerned with the presence of foreign troops in south Somalia.

 

The biggest opposition to the TFG is, probably, the people of the capital (and those clans that made up the bulk number of Courts and warlord supporters). It’s also possible that many in other parts of Somalia oppose the TFG for no other reason than its reliance on foreign help. However, people the world over are fickle, indecisive and unreliable. Oh they mutter, grumble and complain. They talk about shame or pride and even talk about war and honour. But without someone to lead them one way or the other they remain powerless moaning sheep.

 

In the meanwhile, the TFG goes on consolidating its position and reinforcing its authority on all the dissenting parts of Somalia without being faced with any group worthy of the title Opposition! Is it not then, and regardless of the fact if you’re a friend or foe of the TFG, very simple to see why I believe the TFG shall prevail? They’ve got the momentum, they’ve got the funds and they face no discernable opposition whatsoever.

 

Yet, if you’re a supporter of the TFG I don’t think you should be preening just yet. As I said in my earlier post, I believe the TFG will rot from the inside. The characters that form that government have never been the best of friends. Furthermore, though it was the Courts that forced them all (TFG members) to finally see eye to eye, I don’t think they suddenly became reformed characters who love their country and want the best for it (in spite of the Courts’ renowned ability to reform, this was one too far). So, sooner or later we shall start hearing murmurs of discord within the TFG and soon after that a full-blown political war shall erupt. How the fallout manifests itself is anyone’s guess but I personally doubt it will get us back to the time of fiefdoms and warlords. I believe the thieves want to play politics now, which means that the TFG shall be here for a while to come.

 

 

This is my take on the issue, saaxib. If you believe my analysis to be wrong I’ll be more than happy to accept your reasoning. If you’re privy to any information, news or facts that I overlooked or was not aware of, which you believe will shed new light on the argument and might make me change my mind I’d be (honestly) more than grateful to receive them. Over to you...

[EboniQue]

Keyboard commandos indeed!!

[Gordon Gekko]

1-0 to Ngonge.

 

It's pretty amusing to read Mr. Oodweynes wearing-down tactics though, as he tries to seem universally intellectual, writing posts full of complex sentence structures mixed with clear logical fallacies.

[Sharif_seylaci]

ahahahha somali people are not that smart they have 2 be occupied they cant form a goverment u know thats why Ethiopian soldiers inside somalia

 

but dont say we Somalilanders never been occupied

[Taliban]

Originally posted by Sharif_seylaci:

but dont say we Somalilanders never been occupied

All it takes to be occupied is to declare Sharia' as your system of governance. I challenge the administration of the Waqooyi Galbeed region to declare it, even for fun. A piece of advise; never brag about what hasn't befallen you.