Sheikh Sharif's candid interview with Al-Jazeera

[BiLaaL]

A very interesting interview. Sheds light on some not so well-known facts about the early days of the UIC.

 

As part of Al Jazeera English's Talk to Jazeera series Sheikh Sharif Sheikh Ahmed, a leader of Somalia's Union of Islamic Courts, discusses the group's hopes for Somalia, their opposition to Ethiopian troops and US involvement in the country.

 

Interviewer: Would you please explain to me what is going on in Somalia in general?

 

Sh. Sharif:

First, the Ethiopian government had a plan before the Union of Islamic Courts was established. If we re-examine history, Siad Barre's regime was ousted because the Ethiopians supported forces that were opposed to the government. The first person to have allowed Ethiopian to enter our country and to perpetrate this abnominal act was Abdullahi Yusuf himself.

 

They continued their practices; Siad Barre's government was overthrown, tribal wars followed and then came the warlords, who used to receive armaments from Ethiopia. Consequently, Somalia suffered a lot because of this war. Governments were formed but were not able to assume their duties. The latest in date was the government of AbdulQasim, formed in Djibouti in 2000.

 

The warlords were also an obstacle. They established a huge anti-government coalition and were able to overthrow it. They then planned for the Nairobi conference that led to the creation of the present government. This government was created to satisfy the desires of the Ethiopian government and its terrible plans for Somalia. Apparently this government was fighting our traditions and customs - Islam and Muslims in general. Each candidate used to have his program and he had to say explicitly that he would fight Islam and the Muslims. Abduallhi Yusuf was one of the first of them.

 

The situation was grim in Somalia at that moment. When the Somali population realized that the situation was constantly aggravating, it decided to form Courts. People might not understand our concept of a court. Somali Shariah courts are kind of a mini-state. Among other things; it seeks to achieve peace and stability, achieve reconciliation between litigants, settle disputes, raise awareness, help citizens and guide them. Their role is not limited to the legal aspects, but also administrative areas and all the services they can handle.

 

The UIC achieved great success within a short period of time. It was established in 2003. It kept growing and was welcomed by the Somali people. They were Islamic courts and the name was used to serve an international program known as the 'war on terrorism'. The Ethiopians wanted to exploit this appellation and use it in the way they like.

 

They had convinced the Americans that what was happening in Somalia was nothing but terrorism and that it was necessary to fight us. They received huge amounts of money. Wars against various means were launched against the Somali people and the UIC since its establishment. The latest in date was the invasion of the Somali capital and the main cities by the Ethiopian forces.

 

Interviewer: Are there any Al-Qaeda fighters in Somalia?

 

Sh. Sharif:

Let me tell you, there is no Al-Qaeda in Somalia. The UIC does not have any relationship with Al-Qaeda. It was chosen by the Somali people to achieve clear objectives and aims; and they were achieved. Nothing has changed. The UIC was founded on a clear vision and continued along the same lines. These are rumors serving the Ethiopian plan inside Somalia.

 

Interviewer: Your vision for a state is similar to that of the Taliban or Al-Qaeda.

 

Sh. Sharif:

First of all, this is not true. Strictness, moderation and other trends were not mentioned in Islam. These are political terms used to describe Muslims for a certain period of our history. We have not interfered in other peoples freedoms or harmed their interests. These were rumors.

 

Some individuals may have committed some mistakes but there were no serious mistakes at the level of the UIC as an institution. We have to differentiate between the individual's behaviour and the institution's behaviour. This country lived in chaos for 16 years, we have never seen a new force enjoy such a great level of discipline and I don't think this will happen again.

 

The UIC was disciplined and achieved good results. Its success exceeded its mistakes. It reached results that were not achieved by any state in the past. Superpowers interfered in Somalia and tried to restore peace and stability but they failed miserably. On the contrary and within a short period of time, the UIC was able to restore peace and stability, to unite people and to lift psychological barriers caused by war in Somalia.

 

Interviewer: Such achievements cannot be reached by the UIC alone, who is supporting the UIC, who is providing you with money and assistance?

 

Sh. Sharif:

Why not? Why can't the UIC achieve all this by itself? As long as it has the determination, loyalty and the people's support, it can. It is the Somali people that have been supporting the UIC and it continues to do so.

 

Interviewer: Some say that you've been receiving funds from organizations like Al-Qaeda or others that want to support the establishment of a hard-line Islamic state in Somalia.

 

Sh. Sharif:

This is another lie. We in the UIC used to work as volunteers. None of the UIC members used to receive salaries. The maximum we used to get was food from time to time. We found ourselves facing a crisis. We then decided to sacrifice our work and life in order to change the situation and to save Somalia. We had the determination and willingness to make sacrifice.

There is a difference between the ones who want to sacrifice everything and those who want to gain

. The UIC did not want to make any gains. They wanted to make sacrifice for the sake of the Somali people and in order to save the country.

 

Interviewer: How did you finance the projects targeting the society? You used to be armed; how did you finance all these projects?

 

Sh. Sharif:

When the UIC was established we did not have weapons or money, however, we had the determination and the idea. The Somali people were armed, so we asked them to arm us so that we could fulfil our duty. We also asked them to finance us so that we can carry on. During the first six months, we succeeded and were able to gain the sympathy and trust of the Somali people. Our support continued and grew bigger. We pursued our journey until we achieved a great success inside the capital.

 

Then war broke out between us and the warlords who were supported by the U.S. We fought this and we were expecting that we all would be executed. But we decided not to run away or leave this battle. We had only two choices; either to die as martyrs or to succeed in our confrontation. We prevailed, ceased their weapons and took power again.

 

Our victory in this war gave us a big impetus. We confiscated new weapons and spread our influence in many regions. After that, we opened back the airport and the ports. After consultations with the people and with their consent, we imposed minimal taxes in order to expedite business.

 

Inteviewer: Okay. You have been victorious in these battles, but what about the defeat after that. Would you describe to us what happened? How did Mogadishu fall easily?

 

Sh. Sharif:

When we felt that the Ethiopian forces wanted to enter Mogadishu, and they began to bombard all the areas where our troops were, we said that we had to withdraw. The entry into the Somali capital and its bombardment would have harmed many of its people. We decided to withdraw our troops and leave it up to the Somali people to decide their future.

 

We were expecting that the Ethiopian troops would not enter the capital after we withdrew

. However, contrary to our expectation, they entered the capital and there were cases of rape, murder, abduction and abuse that targeted Somalis from all backgrounds. Following these events, resistance restarted.

 

Interviewer: Where did your troops go after you withdrew from Mogadishu?

 

Sh. Sharif:

We withdrew our troops and deployed them in areas far away from the capital, in a way that would make them invisible.

 

Interviewer: Are these troops still present and holding together in some particular Somali areas?

 

Sh. Sharif:

Our troops are present. With gods help they are still holding together and united in solidarity. There are direct contacts between us.

 

Interviewer: Immediately after the fallout of Mogadishu and your withdrawal, there were reports about massacres, murders and air bombardments against your troops. How do you describe this, did it really happen?

 

Sh. Sharif:

They used to bombard our areas, even before we withdrew from the Somali capital. However, with gods help, the enemy was not able to achieve its goals. The losses our troops incurred were minor. We thank god for this.

 

Interviewer: Some of your troops moved to the south, there were reports that those troops were besieged in one area. There no media, cameras or news reported by the press. What happened to the troops that were besieged in the southern part of Somalia? Were they exterminated?

 

Sh. Sharif:

I was among those who went to the south of Somalia. They wanted to besiege us but this did not happen. We took our precautions early. They were bombarding us. There were operations of personnel reinforcements ahead of our troops and after them and from all sides. But with gods help our troops were not besieged. I can say that only five percent of our troops were either killed or injured.

 

Interviewer: What about you? Would you tell us briefly; how did you get out of Somalia? How did you reach Kenya?

 

Sh.Sharif:

We headed to the south of Somalia; namely to the Kenyan-Somali border, which is full of dense forest, and we wanted to hide there. With gods help, we were able to disappear inside the forest. The U.S. and Ethiopian troops were tracing us everywhere. There were also heavy rains and mud and it was difficult to move. Most of the cars stopped midway and we had to continue walking. Military airplanes, American and Ethiopian, were hovering over every tree. With god's assistance, we were able to disappear. We stayed there for a relatively long period of time. I stayed in the forest for around 20 days. We were finally able to contact our brothers in Yemen and we asked them to contact the Kenyan government.

 

Our relationship with the Kenya government was not bad. Even though they were supporting the transitional government, we kept our relationship with them. They were told that I would move to Kenya. They agreed and welcomed me on the Kenyan-Somali border. They sent me a plane. I went to the Kenyan capital, Nairobi, by plane and then to Yemen.

 

Interviewer: Did the Kenyans place any conditions on hosting you?

 

Sh. Sharif:

No, not at all. The Kenyans were the ones that best understood that the UIC is a national force and that one should deal with it. There were some government officials who had a different opinion but the majority of Kenyan officials considered the UIC as force that they should have contact with.

 

When we talk about bilateral relationships between the neighboring countries, many factors should be taken into consideration.

 

Interviewer: Let us talk about your meeting with the U.S. ambassador. Who asked for this meeting?

 

Sh. Sharif:

The Kenyans told me that the U.S. ambassador wanted to meet me. Of course, the U.S. ambassador was dealing with me based on his government's recommendation. He was dealing with us in a good manner, since the beginning. Even after we left the capital, we contacted each other. He said we want to send you a plane. I replied this is impossible now because we are fighting and defending ourselves. We will consider your offer later on. He was also among the ones encouraging the Kenyan government to treat me well.

 

Interviewer: How do you explain this? Isn't there a kind of contradiction? The Americans are supporting those attacking you and at the same time they want to protect you?

 

Sh. Sharif:

I mean this is a double-standard stance. The U.S. administration has always been using double-standards. Within the same state, the department of defense would deal with you in a way and the state department in a different way. This is common place when it comes to the Americans.

 

Interviewer: How do you interpret this? What do you think was their intention?

 

Sh. Sharif:

We cannot explain this position. In all cases, we know that the U.S. support encouraged the Ethiopians to send their troops to Somalia. This support is continuing. If they were aware of the ensuing problems faced by the Somali people, maybe things would have been different. I think that their wrong understanding of the Somali reality pushed them to take wrong decisions.

 

Interviewer: Did the U.S. ambassador offer you a certain deal, interests or a plan to deal with them?

 

Sh. Sharif:

I don't think we can describe it as a deal, but rather the vision of the U.S. administration; like engaging in dialogue with the government in our personal quality and not as an institution, calling upon the Somali people to stop the war, renouncing violence and terrorism amongst others. Our answer was clear: it would not be useful to take part in a dialogue in our personal quality. If we want peace, the UIC should engage in negotiations as an institution. In terms of terrorism: we are not terrorists and we do not encourage terrorism.

 

Interviewer: If you refused the demands of the U.S. ambassador, there must have been consequences. How do you describe the current relationship between you and the Americans, between the UIC and the Americans?

 

Sh. Sharif:

I cannot describe the relationship between the UIC and the U.S. administration because they were not good in the first place. The UIC were driven out of Somalia. As Somali people, we want to protect ourselves, to defend our country and to seek peace. This remains the case, whether we are inside Somalia or outside.

 

When we were inside Somalia, we did not attack or harm any country. All our activities were oriented towards Somalia; towards restoring security and stability in our country.

 

Interviewer: You said that there were no Al-Alqaeda members, no terrorism in Somalia. What is Somalia's strategic importance for the Americans?

 

Sh. Sharif:

First of all, Somalia enjoys a strategic location in the Horn of Africa. Second, Somalia's natural resources are still un-tapped. I think the Americans look to Somalia from a strategic and economic point of view. In my opinion, the Americans know that there is no terrorism in Somalia. They went into Somalia and did not find any terrorists. They did not hand over any terrorist. They should have told us – we found these terrorists in Somalia, we killed some of them, wounded them or arrested them but they didn't find any.

 

The UIC did not undertake any terrorist attacks that could threaten its neighbors or others. In my opinion, the Americans are confident that there is no terrorism. Terrorism is created for political ends.

 

Interviewer: But this contradicts the reports saying that a U.S. attack inside Somalia led to the killing of an armed leader affiliated to Al-Qaeda?

 

Sh. Sharif:

I heard about it when I was in the forest. He was a Somali member of the UIC. He's never been accused of taking part in any terrorist attack. Until now, we cannot accuse him of any terrorist attack.

 

There is another problem. Laws and Islamic Shariah say that an accused remains innocent until proven guilty. He was a normal person but then they said that he was a member of a third organization and that he was a terrorist. When did they check these reports? Who has the right to say he was a terrorist? Terrorism is an accusation - it should be substantiated and he should be indicted according to the law. It would be unfair to describe people as terrorists. This is unjust. Just for being a Muslim and refusing to follow the Americans or others; they would call me a terrorist? That is wrong.

 

International laws guarantee the freedom of belief, where are these laws? Have they disappeared because of crazy political aspirations?

 

Interviewer: Who is perpetrating organized crime in Somalia; such as ship piracy and other crimes?

 

Sh. Sharif:

This is an important question. Mercenaries financed by foreign bodies perpetrated these acts of piracy. They used to commit crimes and kidnappings. The UIC was established in order to face them and was able to defeat them. With gods help, the UIC contributed to ensure the world's stability, because too many accidents used to take place in the Indian Ocean. The U.S. troops were present there but they could not stop these incidents. The UIC was able to oust the pirates and ended this phenomenon. The UIC should have credit for this achievement.

 

Interviewer: What is your current vision for a solution? With whom would you like to engage in negotiations?

 

Sh. Sharif:

 

1. Withdrawing the Ethiopian troops from Somalia.

 

2. Holding a reconciliation conference in a neutral country and inviting all concerned parties to take part in this conference.

 

3. Ensuring international support for this conference and respecting its recommendations.

 

Interviewer: Did you receive any foreign support during the last periods of the conflict? Is it true that you received support from Eritrea?

 

Sh. Sharif:

These are nothing but lies. We did not receive any foreign support. Our only support was our people's solidarity.

 

Interviewer: The governments plan or the proposals for negotiations or reconciliation, do they contain any points you agree on?

 

Sh. Sharif:

This is not a reconciliation that we could accept. For us, this is not reconciliation, but rather infighting incited by the government.

 

Interview: Incase you refuse this proposal and the others reject your own conditions, how will the future be like? What are the prospects? Is it more infighting?

 

Sh. Sharif:

Frankly, we have always been seeking peace and we are continuing to do so. However, we cannot agree on something that will not bear any results. Those setting arbitrary dates for reconciliation are not being realistic.

 

Interviewer: The way the current war is being fought; will it lead to the fallout of the present government and the withdrawal of the Ethiopians?

 

Sh. Sharif:

I have no doubt about it. I'm confident that they will be able to drive out the invading Ethiopian troops out of Somalia.

 

Interviewer:

Thank You.

[Castro]

Wisdom and intelligence are gifts that cannot be achieved with age. Compare the lucid answers of this bright young man with the answers of the 80 year old dimwit (also known as "president") who counts on his fingers during interviews. What have we done wrong to deserve the likes of Yeey and Geedi?

 

Long live Sheikh Sharif.

[xiinfaniin]

He was a rising leader...zamankaa ka hiiliyey!

[Allamagan]

The man is gifted man of higher calibre and I believe he can bring the nation together if he was to be listened and given the chance.

[Faarax-Brawn]

The difference between a Leader of the people & an imposed ruler.

 

Inshallah,Sh Shareef will be the compromise leader for future statte of Somalia.

[BiLaaL]

Originally posted by Castro:

Wisdom and intelligence are gifts that cannot be achieved with age. Compare the lucid answers of this bright young man with the answers of the 80 year old dimwit (also known as "president") who counts on his fingers during interviews. What have we done wrong to deserve the likes of Yeey and Geedi

?

Both Yey and Geedi are men devoid of ideas.

 

Sheikh Sharif was borne out of a movement which brought with it not only sheer determination and goodwill but also concrete ideas on how to move this shattered nation forward. As such, along with his brilliant mind, he has inherited a clear, unshakable vision on how to solve the problems of the horn.

 

International players quickly realised the stark difference between the ICU and the TFG; namely, the TFG's complete lack of ideas for the way forward and the apparent abundance of clear and progressive ideas on the side of the ICU. Whether publicly displayed or not, these international players felt ambivalent about their support of the TFG. On the other hand, the ICU instilled in even its strongest critics, a profound sense of admiration. Admiration for what it has already accomplished and what it was capable of accomplishing, given the chance. This is why the biggest threat emanating from the ICU is its strong and clear vision of the future. It won the battle of ideas at every turn; whether it was with the U.S., the Ethiopians or with the TFG.

 

The days of the TFG shouting out the words 'terrorist' and 'terrorism' are over. It now has to come up with real ideas for the future. In this sense, perhaps the battle of ideas is more important than ever. The international community will soon realise how void of concrete ideas the TFG really is. This coupled with a new and more favorable US administration should ensure that the ICU remains to be a player to be reckoned with.

[AYOUB]

Here's another "candid" interview.

 

 

 

18,April,2010

 

Following are edited excerpts from a transcript of Jeffrey Gettleman’s recent interview with Somalia’s president, Sheik Sharif Sheik Ahmed, at Villa Somalia, the presidential palace, in Mogadishu, the nation’s capital. The answers were translated from the Somali by a Somali interpreter:

 

 

Q. Let’s start with your enemy. You know these guys. You used to work with them. Like Hassan Dahir Aweys and Abu Monsoor [two well-known insurgent leaders]. Why can’t you make peace with them? Why is it so difficult to bring them on board?

 

A. It’s true. It’s an important question. It would be my preference that since we worked together in the I.C.U. [islamic Courts Union] we would work together now. People go through stages and sometimes they take the wrong turn. When they didn’t join the peace process, that took them far out and now they can’t get out of that corner.

 

Q. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said it was crucial to reach out and bring in these opposition groups. What are you doing about that?

 

A. We have been busy with that. An important part of Hizbul Islam has already joined the government and some from the Shabab.

 

Q. How do you try to persuade them?

 

A. There are people in government that reach out to these people. And other Somalis. The government’s door is open and there is always an option to review their position.

 

Q. When was the last time you spoke to Aweys?

 

A. I don’t remember. It’s been a while.

 

Q. Can you call him?

 

A. I don’t have a problem with it in principle. But I don’t believe the time is right yet and that a telephone call would make a difference.

 

Q. What’s your vision to bring peace? What are some specifics?

 

A. The government wished to bring in as many groups as possible through the reconciliation. The government is working to earn the trust of the people. Helping us are the ways of Hizbul Islam and Shabab. Their path is a dark one.

 

Q. What has the government done since you became president in February?

 

A. This government faced obstacles that were unparalleled. We had to deal with international terrorist groups creating havoc elsewhere. Their plan was to topple the government soon after it arrived. The government proved it could last. The vision of the government is becoming clear to the Somali people and the international community. We are working on the security front a lot. We are doing reconstruction. We are doing humanitarian work. We have done things on good governance. You must remember that to accomplish a lot needs resources.

 

Q. If you don’t get the help you need, what’s going to happen?

 

A. We won’t be able to accomplish a lot. Not much will work. The government is dealing with a lot. We’re trying to set up administrations. We’re trying to reclaim parts of the country currently controlled by extremists. We are working on reconciliation. We have a lot of pressure from the fighting.

 

Q. How urgent is it? Will this government not survive unless it gets more support?

 

A. The problem with international aid is that it often comes late and is limited. There’s no doubt that an established government that doesn’t get the right resources will not stand. Why not Somalia?

 

Q. Why has Ahlu Sunnah Wal Jama [a moderate Islamist group, led by Sufi Muslim clerics] been able to defeat the Shabab outside Mogadishu and you haven’t?

 

A. There is a difference between the cities and the regions. Only the I.C.U. was able to control Mogadishu. Of course, we need to do more. But the opposition is busy attacking the government in Mogadishu, which makes it easier to liberate the regions.

 

Q. You are not a military man, which many people say is a good thing. How much time do you spend on military matters?

 

A. We spend a great deal of time on security-related issues.

 

Q. What percentage of your time?

 

A. About 75 percent.

 

Q. Have you gotten better at military strategy?

 

A. [laughing] I can’t say that.

 

Q. Are you worried about Ahlu Sunnah getting too powerful?

 

A. The Sufi sects don’t usually go to war. They don’t usually shed blood. The elders of the Sufis in the past used to manage them through spiritual connections. My fear is that if they continue on the path of fighting, they will shift from these tenets and principles.

 

Q. How close are you to them? I went to Dusa Marreb [a town in central Somalia] and it didn’t seem like Ahlu Sunnah and the government were working together at all.

 

A. Most Somalis subscribe to the Sufi sect. Ahlu Sunnah particularly suffered at the hand of Al Shabab. They have the right to defend themselves. Going beyond that defense would be questionable or illegal.

 

Q. So what does that mean? They are going beyond self-defense. They are seizing new territory.

 

A. We see that as part of self-defense.

 

Q. Let’s talk about Shariah [islamic law]. The Parliament has agreed to use Shariah as a guiding principle. But what form?

 

A. Shariah itself doesn’t change. What changes are the people who are interpreting it. The emphasis here has to be what is the best interest of the people, for this life and the life hereafter.

 

Q. But can you please provide some specifics. Will girls go to school with boys and be educated equally?

 

A. That’s one area where we don’t have a problem in Somalia. In Somali tradition, we had elderly women who were in charge of educating people.

 

Q. What about the veil? Will a Somali woman be allowed to walk around in public without a veil?

 

A. The interpretation of the veil is an item itself. In general, Islam ordains that a woman covers her body. The purpose of that is to prevent temptation and other problems.

 

Q. But is this something you are prepared to make a law? In Turkey, they don’t make women wear veils. In Saudi Arabia, they do. Where will Somalia come in on the veil issue?.

 

 

A. The purpose is to get people to the point where they do this from conviction, say up to 80 percent of the people. The government would help the rest. The tradition of our prophet, peace be upon him, is not to give instructions or orders without first preparing the people.

 

Q. But today in Somalia what does that mean? Will the law say that women have to wear a hijab [a head scarf] or not?

 

A. If you look at the situation in Somalia today, this becomes a moot point. Hijab is the norm. And considering the difficulties we have in front of us, this does not become a major issue. We’re working on how to save people’s lives, which is much more of a priority than this subject.

 

Q. What do you think about Al Qaeda and its influence here?

 

A. We believe that there is a strong relationship between Al Qaeda and some people here, the people leading the fighting. The relationship with Al Qaeda is well known. Al Qaeda has said it. And the local fighters have said it. If you go to places the opposition controls, you will see foreign fighters. Their symbols and flags are also abundantly available.

 

Q. When you were part of the I.C.U. in 2006, did you see this creeping in?

 

A. There were many well-wishers in Somalia at the time of the Islamic Courts. There was no way to tell that this was the beginnings of Al Qaeda or anything like that, at the time.

 

Q. But even back then, the U.S. government was asking your help to hand over Fazul Abdullah Mohamed and other suspected Al Qaeda terrorists. You didn’t and that was one reason the U.S. backed Ethiopia to invade. Do you look back and see anything you could have done to stop that?

 

A. No, there was nothing we could have done to stop that.

 

 

Q. Why?

 

A. There was limited information about these people. We needed time.

 

Q. What’s been your biggest mistake as president?

 

A. We just started. We haven’t had any time to reflect.

 

Q. Looking back at 2006, is there anything you would have done differently?

 

A. I’m sure there was. But one would also have to consider the situation at the time and what was the right thing to do. Whether that could have been accomplished, that’s another question.

 

Q. Some people think there should be more emphasis in Somalia on a bottom-up form of government that prioritizes local government. I’ve been to the regions recently and I haven’t seen any evidence of the central government. What do you think about this approach?

 

A. Part of the government’s plan is to build administrations in the regions.

 

Q. But what does that mean? Schools, hospitals, military help — where are you going to begin?

 

A. To build a full administration.

 

 

Q. Where are you going to start?

 

A. We don’t want to expand.

 

 

Q. What’s it like to go from being on the outside of power the last couple years to now being president? You don’t even have to open up your car door any more; someone else does it for you.

 

A. I think whether I open the door or someone else does is of little consequence. What is important is that we took an oath to work for the nation.

 

 

Q. What’s it like to be now working with the Americans, who helped the Ethiopians get rid of you?

 

A. I would put the question differently. What we were fighting for was a peaceful Somalia that can deal with the rest of the world.

 

[Jacaylbaro]

[Peace Action]

This is politics after all, and Sharif like A/Y before him is trying to tame the untameble south with the added misfortune of confronting al qaacida inspired al shabaab.

[Polanyi]

I guess there was something true about the mole tag after all.

[Jacaylbaro]

and the slap ??