Somalia to create Iraq-style Green Zone

[Baashi]

MY man ME listen up buddy. There is one way and only one way short of complete and decisive win by one faction. And that is a genuine, honest, and transparent proceeding taken part by all sides. The objective of the proceeding should be to end the conflict asap -- cessation of hostilities if you will – and to find ways to form a just, inclusive, and legitimate government.

 

The reconciliation dirrin will have many shortcomings. It won’t be perfect but it will be a good step to the right direction.

 

TFG has squandered the rare op handed to them by International actors. They will never succeed unless they start talking to the clans they want to humiliate. It is a lost cause at this point. The old man’s winning is loud and clear and it is akin to the old and famous lines of inta aan is dhaawacay; waa annigan dhutinayee!

 

Insurgency if not supported by the masses is not effective. Sure they can disrupt the peace and even frustrate the plans of the powers that be have in Somalia but brunt of their sting will be felt by the average farax iyo xalimo and their gizilion kids half already amputee!

 

Here is another line of xikmah I heard from qaaci song that tells the story I’m trying to convey and it goes like this Gacan la taagoo; taageera weydaa; tahar ma goysee!. Ma sha’Allah how true how true. All their effort will not amount to cut a tahar without masses behind them. Somehow for some reason they, the public at large, seem to be oblivious to the occupation you guys are talking about.

 

Undercut Habasha forces by making them irrelevant. How you do that? Just, inclusive, and practical transitional government that’s open to Islamists as well as tribalists input – that is how you solve conflicts - a lil compromise goes a long way. Awoowe there is no such as winner takes all.

[Baashi]

War ba'a...waryaa sxbkey Oodweyne ku yiri SNM ma aha mujaahiddin fii sabiiliLaah xabada u riday? Ma waxay is barbar dhigeen shahiidiintii SNM iyo USC, SSDF, iyo TFG ba'day ee Tigre-ga wadata? Waa waxaan rag aqoon. Awoowe innaka daa ciyaalka xaafada oo kaalay shaahnee.

 

Kix kix my man Oodweyne dude remember we are just foruming aight no hard feeling brother. Relax. And I'm sorry to say one more time that your SNM holy wariors who sought the enemies help to fight their own are not that different from the current warriors who are trying to cement their gains by any mens necessary. Sory buddy it is what it is. Gotta call spade a spade sxb.

 

Now let's get one thing straight. I gotta put this baby to bed for once. I never ever justified TFG's transgressions. I have always understood it as another faction trying to use foreign toys to get their way. It just so happened that they succeeded to bring them Habasha with them. Nothing more nothing less.

 

I don't support Inna Yey. Never did. Diin ku taageeri mayo. Oo caadilnimo ku taageerimayo. Nin maareyn iyo maamul yaqaan oo technocrat ah ku taageeri mayo. Oo tolnimo ku taageerimayo oo 20 years olds uu dabka saarayo for his sake baan aad iyo aad uga damqanayaa. They could be somebody ya know to borrow Brando's famous phrase!

 

Awoowe you are clutching at straws. I guess you ran out of ammunition. Waryee get your plot sharpen a bit.

 

Ayoub and his nonesense like how come you don't refute or blast Duke! And like you questioned UIC's rush to war or how they executed their short-lived political capital! Good questions really.

 

On Duke. The man does a helluva spinning. He is good at it. But he does it with style. You won't see him talking about another man's behind in a homo way the way my man Oodweyne does when he gets excited!

 

My position on Inna Yussuf and his TFG is crystal clear buddy.

[me]

Dear Bwana Oodweyne,

 

Waxaad socotidba waxaad keentay in aad tidhaahdid me wuxuu la jiraa TFG Bwana Oodweyne you seem to be squandering whatever little credibility you had on this forum. I will not go tit for that in name callings and underhand digs, because, I know that I can not hold my ground in that game with a specialist like yourself.

 

But let me explain my position once again.

 

I me support the resurrection of our republic and ending the tragedy that has befallen on our people, that is my nr. 1 priority.

 

Secondly I support the Soomaaliweyn ideology, I believe that we are all brothers and sisters and that we should live in one state that is fair and just for all. Its a cruel world out there and for the sake of our survival we need each other and therefor we should be united.

 

Today because of the divisions in our society the poorest nation in the world is occupying us.

 

I am a Somali dear Bwana I have my honor and that my capital is under occupation by the forces of our long time enemy is something that I cannot tolerate. It hurts me deep inside.

 

Now the question is how did things get this far? Is is the TFG's fault? Hell yea it is, they have legalized the occupation. They are the ones running screaming we invited them. But we are no school children here. So lets investigate this matter further. Lets ask ourself when did all this start. Lets go back in time and look at the moves our enemy made.

 

Lets forget about the rebel movements for a second, we know that they were all supported, trained and funded by the xabash.

 

Lets look at the various stages of the Somali civil war and how the xabash manipulated the different situations to its advantage.

 

1. Somaliland, who where its architects? Who came up with the plan? Why where Ethiopian Generals present at the Burco conference?

2. Luuq & Gedo, who helped dislodge al-itixaad?

3. Who formed and supported the RRA?

4. Puntland, who where the architects of Puntland? How did Ethiopia facilitate the creation of Puntland, wasn't it Ethiopia that sent soldiers when AY lost the presidency of Puntland?

5. The Muqdisho warlords were also collaborators of the Ethiopians.

6. Why do almost all Somali political groups go for siyaaro to Adis Abeba?

 

So for the past 17 years almost every Somali group was getting his orders from Ethiopia. The TFG is nothing more then the sum of all those groups. Atleast it has one face now.

 

So Dear Bwana the question is not who is the biggest collaborator, the question is how the f*k do we get out of this messed up situation. How do we free our country from these collaborators, how do we resurrect our state and make a better future for our children.

 

The Xabash is abusing the mistrust that is between the Somalis, we should deny him that. Its time for Somali brotherhood and sisterhood. Its time that we reconcile our differences. Only with unity will we achieve our objectives.

 

That is my political conviction dear Bwana and I proudly wear it on my sleeve.

[Gabbal]

Originally posted by Oodweyne:

 

 

Arinta SNM iyo halgankeediina, dee baashow, haddii aadan is yeel yeelaynin, waad ogtahay, inaan guul hayo, adeero Yey-na Amxaaro u dabo cararkii u miciin moodey...

 

^Sidaa weeyaan sxb, hadalka lama leexiyo!

 

Me,

 

Adeer, daawaan u baahanahay. Dadkaan anigu ugu horeeyo daawaan u baahanahay adeer. Qabyaalad baa la il daranahay, kaad oranay bal isagaaa kuwa kale dhaamo baa maryaha rogan haduu wax yaroo shanqar ahi maqlo. So imaadan fahan? Daawaanahay u baahanahay adeer. We have lost sight of everything and I pray the objective becomes more clearer to us once again.

[me]

^ Adeer meeshaas waan soo maray, hasayeeshee waa layga talaalay, hada imune ayaan ka noqday. Waa in mar walba ey indhaagu furanyihiinse, waa cudur bahashu, indhahaagi oo gudcur galay unbaad is arkaysaa.

 

Mar walba waa in laysweydiiyo, danta qabiilka iyo danta wadanka teebaa saraysa. And in the long run, teebaa meel lagu gaarayaa, ma qabyaaladbaa meel lagu gaarayaa,mise wadaninimo iyo xaq-u-dirir? Its not easy sxb, but it can be done.

[Abwaan]

Originally posted by Jacaylbaro:

what is after the green zone will be the red zone ,,,, prepare your rockets now

loooool....malla yaabtay saaxiib. Waa Geeddi iyo xoolonimadiisa, ma hadduu yiri khadkii cagaarnaa halla soo celiyo, tolow marka dambena maxaa xigi doona? 43 dii isbaaro halla soo celiyo?

[QabiilDiid]

I used to visit soc.culture.somalia in 1990’s. Marka waxa jiray nin la baxay qabiildiid. Marka soomaali walba caadifadda waddanimo qaado oo uu darbigaa ku soo qoray qabiilbaa na baabi’yey, qabiilbaa keer ah, qabeelbaa siddan noogalay, waxa uu qabiidliid u soo ban dhigi jiray dhaar yar oo cinwaakeedu yahay:

 

WAR HOOY SOO QABIILDIID, WAR HOOY SOO QABIILDIID!!!! sidanna oranaysa:

 

WALAAHI.. BILAAHI. WATAA GAAL NOQDAA OO AAN DIINTA KA TAGAA IN AANAN QABIIL DAMBE SHEEGGANEYN INTA NAFTO IGU JIRTO; IN AANAN QABIIL SHEEG SHEEGGEEYN INTA NAFTO IGU JIRTO; IN AANAN QABIIL LA SHIREYN INTA NAFTO IGU JIRTO; IN AANAN QABIIL SHIRINEYNIN INTA NAFTO IGU JIRTO; IN AANAN QABIIL KA SHIREYN INTA NAFTO IGU JIRTO (joojis buuxa).

 

Marka SOL yaa isku dayaya, any takers, haddii kale Soomaaliyeed, ummada badan baa addunnka dhaqan wareegay oo baaba ay eh, aan runta isku sheegno, waan soconaa eh….

 

I tried but I couldn't.....

[AYOUB]

On Duke. The man does a helluva spinning. He is good at it. But he does it with style.

I beg to differ. I won't show you the evidence because waa la i caayay waa ceeb. The chap goes even beyond your "in-law jokes". When he's not doing that, he's copying and pasting utter trash. Rest of the time he's doing a good job of contradicting himself. But as they say, beauty is the eyes of the beer-holder.

 

 

I don't support Inna Yey. Never did. Diin ku taageeri mayo. Oo caadilnimo ku taageerimayo. Nin maareyn iyo maamul yaqaan oo technocrat ah ku taageeri mayo. Oo tolnimo ku taageerimayo oo 20 years olds uu dabka saarayo for his sake baan aad iyo aad uga damqanayaa.

Well is that so? What then balanced the scales to make you jump into the "Neutral Corner" wise guy? You can't sing all that jazz, declare "neutrality" and accused everyone else of not resisting the occupation! An explanation is well overdue.

 

 

Baashi is the most intriguing one. If I had to guess I'd say his perfect choice would be Abdullahi Yusuf with a beard.

lol @ Ngonge. I think it's a case of "a beard would be nice".

[Baashi]

On Duke. Again I can't recall an instance the man called nomads on the other side of the aisle names. Clearly if he did that he is in the wrong.

 

On Paste & Copy. What's wrong with that? And how is he different from Jaceyl Inna Barro on that score? Baba you are too baised to single the man out methinks!

 

On Neutrality. Well your (and Oodweyne's) obsession on this speaks volumes. Thank you for holding me in high regard. Seriously! Now my positions on nomad politicking might not be popular or you might not find me beating the drums of support for particular group but in all honest where I stand in each and every event that I commented on is crystal clear.

 

On UIC. I supported 100% in principle. However I quesioned their rush to impatient and unnecessary war and at times cautioned them not to fall into the traps set by their enemies.

 

On reconciliation. I embraced wholeheartedly. I agreed with those who pointed out all its shortcomings. But I insisted on that talking is helluva better excercise than killing and endangering civilians.

 

On TFG. Long before anyone, I said it is an officer's club (armed factions). I rejected 4.5 formula. I pointed out how Islamists were excluded from the deliberations. This was way back. Nevertheless I realized that having all the devils in one basked and having them marching in one direction makes possible to end the conflict.

 

On secession. Admit it that's why you don't like me Secession on the grounds of grievances committed by junta that are no longer in power is not gonna fly boowe. Rer Baidowa suffered the most next to the minorities that lived in Benadir, Marka, Barawe, and Kismayo (Persians, Pakistans, Indians, Bajunes, Gibil Cad, Jareer in gosha and what have you) and you don't hear them carrying out loud the way you secessionist do. Likewise, the notion that 'we were colonized by different gaal is a nonesense" and hardly a case for dismembering Somalia. I challenged you on both accounts. In that regard my position on secession is also crystal clear. I oppose the secession period not durriyada and ya know it.

 

On Puntland. They declared themselves as clan grouping wanting to manage their affairs till national government takes the helm. They didn't even crossed the Galkacyo line. As regional autonomy within the federal framework, I support that move.

 

What else. On Habasha crossing the line. I posted a thread I called the day of infamy. I understood the forces at play. I talked about the neocons and its bulldog in the region. But unlike many here, I explained again and again where the real problem lied which, as I understood, is the clan conflict itself.

 

On negative tribalism. I impressed upon the forum again and again how this gives the Addis junta unparallel leverage over the fueding clans.

 

On insurgency. Again it won't be effective if the folks who are waging it are from part of HG clans only. Bring Durriyada, Baidowa, Puntland, Hiiraan, Geddo, and Juba clans into the game and you will see Habasha taking a cover. Till you get to that kinda game, residents in some parts of Benadir will be caught in the middle of fire.

 

Awoowe ma waxad iga urririnaysaa reerahaan Somali ka dhashay ileyn ragga cidla lagama ceyrsado e?

 

This is not a popular position but it is coherent and reasonable position. If ya see holes say it out loud it is bug screen and ya will have a real debate on your hands. Haddii kale waxad tiraahdaa sidaadii Baashi waa Neutral.

[Janagale_bi-idnilah]

C'mon fellas, Baashi there's no way you can be neutral due to the previous post. please explain little in detail about "On insurgency. Again it won't be effective if the folks who are waging it are from part of HG clans only."

[AYOUB]

Baashi

Don't know about Oodweyne, but, do I hold you in high regard or do I hold you in high regard? I'm also an admirer of your ability of juggling several political potatoes, but, a simpleton like I can only focus on the one labelled N.

On insurgency. Again it won't be effective if the folks who are waging it are from part of HG clans only. Bring Durriyada, Baidowa, Puntland, Hiiraan, Geddo, and Juba clans into the game and you will see Habasha taking a cover. ...

If only you called for that last winter instead of the "neutrality" you came up with. I admit, it was wrong for the battlefield to be in Bay when the leadership of protagonists were not natives, but, the Court had little choice. War was declared on them by hoodlums that were US/Ethio-backed.

 

Where does "reconciliation" you're backing fit in all this anyway?

[Baashi]

^You would rather wanted them to attack Puntland where the leaders are from eh! Classic. Walle laba garaadloow kaama gurro sheeko

 

You seem to be doing a lil bit of tailgating lately. Not only that, you come across as some blowhard guy who feels awe when he faces my irrefutable and consistent argument. Ahem many nomads here in SOL have remarked my ability to juggle many potatoes and handle them all -- sometimes in one hand And now you too, I see lol. Thanks for the compliment. No I didn’t miss the sarcasm

 

Here I’m again…back on the saddle – and for the heck of it I’ll keep on pressing my unsurprising observation one more time lest it sinks in this time around.

 

Ayoub you won’t be able to box me in your marked familiar basket! Give it up buddy. I won’t fit in there akhi. I am a yellow belt six sigma trainee (thanks to corporate world)– meaning I know how to do a real root cause analysis sxb. You said so and so shalay kinda talk won’t cut it smart boy. Talk to me Ayoub…I’m here to tell u that I stand by every word I said about UIC, TFG, and what have you.

 

Precisely, explicitly what part of ‘ongoing Somali on Somali conflict aka civil war gives way to all sorts of alliances including Ethio-clan so-n-so coalition vs. clan-hebel-n-hebel grouping’ statement ya don’t understand dude? What is so shocking about one group getting a helping hand from the same enemy every big shot in Somalia slept with one time or another? Having one segment of the population sleeping with enemy renders the occupation argument a useless argument, noh?

 

Here is another probing inquiry for you blowhard, why are the majority of Somalis cower and hide at home and not show their resistance, in the field, against the “occupation”? I don’t see one fifth of tumin of the eight million strong or so taking stand against bad Tigre boys. Don’t they see? What’s stopping them…please some1 help me out? I knew all along that the era of Somalinimo was over. What I’m trying to understand is what happened to Muslinimo? And how come Ayoub is not pressing the arsenal reserved for PL’s offensive for the defense of the Mogadishu brethren! Halkay beladu iska qaban la’dahay?

 

Here is the inescapable sad fact: overwhelming numbers of Somalis are either rooting for the Tigre forces OR they are accessory to the aggression OR they are pretending to be innocent bystanders OR they don’t give a fig to what happens to “others” so long their fellow clan family are safe and sound. Add them all up and ya got a majority. What that amounts to is complicity in the occupation! Hello talk to me, any1!!!!!!!. Simple Boolean logic ain’t it. Or gates = complicity! Why?

 

Do you now see the case for negotiation so the opposing part can be reconciled? Do you see if they strike a deal (practical and fair) both Addis and Eritrea’s leverage and influence on the so called stooges will evaporate overnight?

 

All that said, I’m dead against Tigre boots on Somali soil. I’m saddened to see the suffering of my fellow Muslim brethren in Somalia. I know how painful it is to live in a world where camelboy justice prevails. I’ve been there. I want fair, practical, just, evenhanded, and inclusive government. We don't have that. I could be wrong but xagga iyo xagga inta ka dayey baan waxan dhaafin waayay in miis rag leeyahay int la fariisto in waxii dhacay laga heshiiyay oo nidaam cusub lagu heshiiyo oo wax la isu ogolaado. In la wada hadlo oo gogol nabadeed lagu wada hadlo baan uga haray.

 

Was it Inna Abdille Hassan who coined Maandhoow lugtii iga jabtaan luudiyaa waliye. Maansha la yirri doqon meel lagu dirriray uun bay ogeeyd ee meel lagu heshiiye iyo in la heshiin karoba ma holiso[/i].

[AYOUB]

^^ Joking aside, I meant it when I compliment you. Unlike some phoney "somaliweynistes" in here, you don't say things for worthless SOL brownie points and your "analysis posts" - however inconsistent - seem to reflect what you genuinely feel at any pointing time. Enough with the pleasantries.

 

"Here is another probing inquiry for you blowhard, why are the majority of Somalis cower and hide at home and not show their resistance, in the field, against the “occupation”? I don’t see one fifth of tumin of the eight million strong or so taking stand against bad Tigre boys. Don’t they see? What’s stopping them…please some1 help me out? I knew all along that the era of Somalinimo was over. What I’m trying to understand is what happened to Muslinimo? And how come Ayoub is not pressing the arsenal reserved for PL’s offensive for the defense of the Mogadishu brethren! Halkay beladu iska qaban la’dahay?"

What arsenal? What offensive? The little I have is for defensive purposes only. Even if I try, will I not have to trample allover PL on my way south? What will you have say about that? If the little I have makes it all the way there, who are Ethios eyes and ears on the ground? I doesn't stop here either.

 

Baashow, the people of Mogadishu delivered their end of the bargain when they opposed the warlords' "Satan alliance " and chased them out. In return, they enjoyed a brief period of peace and progress. If there was something worth build on, that was it. You can't downplay the role Yey's PL militias played in reversing the what the people of Xamar gained. Col. Yey's immediate cry was "I'll be the man to crush the wadaads so back me". The rest is history ...

 

Back 1977-8 war with the Ethio, future SODAF/SSDF colleques of Yey betrayed and executed Somali fighters in Jigjiga in an effort to undermine the war so that it makes it easier for them to gain power. The point am trying to make is; for some, it does not matter if all Somalis deliver their end of the bargain ... their "right to rule" comes first and everything else comes a distant second. They either change their thinking or they'll always be war.

 

Do you now see the case for negotiation so the opposing part can be reconciled? Do you see if they strike a deal (practical and fair) both Addis and Eritrea’s leverage and influence on the so called stooges will evaporate overnight?

Short of surrendering, what's there on the negotiating table? Is Yey even sincere about negotiations? How many times has he broken or pulled out of agreements that he disliked? Remember what happened when elders chose Ali Jama rather than him? What about promises he made to Col. Aweys or Gen. Barre? Cirrid Yaambo & Co? Maybe I'm just a pessimist but the actions and rhetoric coming from the TFG back my views because they don't even want to sit down with their opponents.

 

Finally, what IF the was geniune negotiations and they produce an agreement not acceptable to you, like Burco 1991? Just a thought .. .

 

[ August 24, 2007, 03:43 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

[Baashi]

Ayoub,

Lets just put aside Inna Yussuf bio and what the Mujahidiin up in the recovery zone can do for their brothers (militarily, financially, moral support, etc). Likewise, lets set aside the topic of what residents of Benadir have done to meet their end of the bargain for now. Lets take a look on what should be on the reconciliation dirrin, instead aight.

 

On the dirrin are all the political thorny issue everyone seems to be avoiding now. Power-sharing equation, Islamist’s role, Ethiopian presence, security headache, real estate issues, drafted constitution (full of contradiction and almost evasive on the milestones that matter the most), Somaliland-Puntland border demarcation – these are political problems one needs to put to bed before moving to post-conflict Somalia equation.

 

Trouble is in some weird way, each and every one of the list above is arguably colored by shady clannish paint - paint that is neither black nor white nor grey. Granted one side of the conflict might try to play games and throw obstacles when things don’t go their way. Still the fact that the talking is done in a dirrin setting is in itself a departure from the armed confrontation that require a foreign backing. Trust me awoowe Somalis are good in talking and reaching compromises. The thing is how to get them (the folks that really matter) under the qurac is a science project in need of funding.

 

I’m banking on the hope you will agree with me the big picture I’ve outlined above namely let’s for once understand that clan conflict requires resources and those who don’t have the logistical resources will take cover in wherever they can find cover first and will struck back by any means necessary.

 

On dirrin setting, things are radically different. What ya need is security and teeth behind the agreed framework. Sure those who have the upper hand will sit on the dirrin with heads high and shoulders straight and try to cement their loot or gains. However at the end of the day non-armed and minorities win concessions in dirrin than they could have possibly win in battlefield.

 

I will come back to Benadir resident comment, Inna Yussuf’s biography, and what SL can do to help Islamists.

 

Later.