THE GREAT PRAYER EXPERIMENT

[Johnny B]

One of the intresting aspects of Religion is PRAYERS,

People do PRAY for a variety of things turning to their Gods, asking for good health ,good economy,etc etc .

Technically PRAYERS are carried out as a direct communication between a Person(s) and a Diety,that person strictly belives that somehow S/He can communicate with a Diety and ask it to intervene the status quo in behalf of that person and make changes that turn the status quo more favorable to that person.

 

Though all this is done under presumeably a good faith and intention,the childish egoisim in it glares at one right in the eyes,becouse there are situations where answering one's prayers mean depriving others who are equally as good as us or maybe even slighly better than us.

 

On a friday efternoon ,Alle-Ubaahne makes a PRAYER that God saves him a parking place near the Mosque( wonder how many of us do so) so he skips walking blocks to the Friday prayers.

 

Sadly, this kind of Theism is very popular, How egoistic is your Prayers?

[N.O.R.F]

JB, i can see you thinking long and hard every night about about what new twist you can 'enlighten' us with here on SOL.

 

Can this be deemed as praying to one's self? The ultimate of being egotistical??

[Johnny B]

Soryy to have came across as the Man of the twists, but if you'd given it a minute's thought, you'd sure realize that praying to one's self is a contradiction in terms.

 

That i think long and hard and specially at nights? eh ,i could of have kicked it home by highlighting that atleast one of us is doing the thinking , but then that is not the case , it is just that i get better things for my time, ENJOY.

[N.O.R.F]

Not a contradiction when you make yourself believe there is no creator with no evidence (still waiting on that by the way and isnt that a contradiction?). Thus making your inherent thinking ‘guide’ you in life rather than be guided. Your thinking is aimed at ridiculing something you don’t believe in! :rolleyes: ENJOY

[Khayr]

Thus making your inherent thinking ‘guide’ you in life rather than be guided.

JB, If thats not ego centered than I don't know what is.

 

Your thinking is aimed at ridiculing something you don’t believe in! ENJOY

[N.O.R.F]

No doubt he will come back with 'thats why i ridicule it'....... :rolleyes:

[Elysian]

JB, not really attempting to answer your question but just wondering, what actions are not based on egoism?

[Naden]

Hey JB ,

 

Prayer is a complex and mysterious affair that is rarely given its justice in discussion or analysis. Aside from any theistic inclination, it touches upon a human tendency towards wishful thinking. But I think that is only a part of it. Perhaps the childlike part (I won't say childish ).

 

Before one has any earnest discussion on prayer, maybe a definition or a deeper understanding is in order. A 15-year old boy's prayer is surely different than his 50 year old father's. Or is it? It is interesting to read some of the literature on prayer and recovery from surgery/illness. The same problem exists in this research because we don't have a uniform definition of what prayer is, what motivates a person to pray, and how convinced people are that their God has responded to their prayers.

 

It may not even matter to people to connect the outcome to their prayers. Could it be the act of prayer itself that provides the comfort? Maybe Alle Ubahne would drive around for half an hour (like the rest of us) to get a good spot and then thank god when he finally spots someone leaving. Prayers come true sometimes, don't they?

[Johnny B]

Elysian, Bruden, 'Altruistic' kallas de handlingar som är icke egoistiska eller ger direkt vinst till en själv, men min pöang är icke att framhäva Altruism utan att diskutera vad som kallas bön och hur hjälpsamt det är att be.

 

Det var ju synd att du avstod ifrån en vettig inlägg, jag hade önskat annars, men, men.

 

North, Khayr,

Atherkey wuxu yiri, "nin faruran forida ma karo fii,na haba shegin", horta, Aan idin duceyo noh.

 

Hi Naden, nice to see you again !!

 

As usual , you pose intellectually tickling questions, If i concern myself with what motivates a person to pray, and how convinced people are that their God has responded to their prayers, i'd assert that the motivation is always a combiantion of belief and a dire need ,specially in difficult or hopeless situations where people wish a different and more favorable status qou.

 

As for how convinced people are,it varies,in most cases though,specially in the Abrahamic theology, people show strong belief in a God that is concerned and always around to oversee and constantly influence the subsequent fate of his initial creation, by answering prayers, forgiving or punishing sins and in some extreme cases preforming miracles.

 

Would a God that doesen't intervene and shape the fate of his creation be qualified for our prayers i wonder?

[N.O.R.F]

^^ma nin deen la, aya dad deenle oduceenkara?

 

Would a God that doesen't intervene and shape the fate of his creation be qualified for our prayers i wonder?

If people had a doubt in God's abilities they would'nt be praying to him in the first place ya JB

 

But how would you know about God's intentions/plans/interventions? Is it a case of 'oh my prayer for loads of money didnt come true today so i shant believe'?

[Johnny B]

Originally posted by Northerner:

^^ma nin deen la, aya dad deenle oduceenkara?

North,you've missed the point by miles there, Anybody wa docenkra, its just that anybody's prayers might not come true, somaha?

 

Originally posted by Northerner:

But how would you know about God's intentions/plans/interventions?

I woulden't , unless a theist like you voluntarily claims to know , hence, tells me about it.

[N.O.R.F]

North,you've missed the point by miles there

Probably due to not fully recognising your Somali spelling.

 

its just that anybody's prayers might not come true, somaha?

Yes. But who decides whether it should come true or not? Whether he/she is deserving of? What are the pre-requisits for making prayer? Its not as simple as you presume.

 

Originally posted by Northerner:

But how would you know about God's intentions/plans/interventions?

JB

 

I woulden't, unless a theist like you voluntarily claims to know , hence, tells me about it.

I would never do such a thing as its a major sin. But not knowing God's intentions is a good thing as one will pray for God's mercy in this life and the next.

[Elysian]

JB, jag vill inte förstöra ditt intressanta inlägg med hårklyveri, eftersom min intention inte var att ens försöka besvara din fråga. En diskussion om bönens betydelse kommer onekligen leda till existentiella frågor osv…. vill inte ge mig in i den diskussionen.

 

Din fråga var dock “How egoistic is your Prayers”. Även om altruistiska handlingar ter sig osjälviska är de ändå ursprungna ur egoism, och därav min fråga, vilka icke-egoistiska böner finns det? Men eftersom det inte var den frågan du förväntade dig, klassas det självklart som ”inget vettigt inlägg” – bra undanmanövrering

 

By the way, who you calling ”bruden”… please lets not go there!!

[N.O.R.F]

Please keep me in the loop. Svedska is not Somali nor is it English. Now, what did you just write?

[Johnny B]

Elysian,

Förstöra och förstöra, det är ju redan så gott som förstört, i och med att jag inte fick säga "Bruden", undra om Fröken , Gullet, Jäntan,Gumman eller t.o.m "abayo macaney" hade dugit?, ba driver merig.

 

Du hade rätt, Jag ville inte diskutera Egoism vs Altruism,din fråga dock ifrågasätter Altruism , precis som du själv hävdar att det i grund av botten finns ju ingen ren altruistiska handling, vilket i och för sig är diskutabelt men ej av intresse för tillfället.

Och du, vettig inlägg var det ju, men av ovan angivna orsak kan det har varit ..säg ovidkommande?

 

Originally posted by Northerner:

I would never do such a thing as its a major sin. But not knowing God's intentions is a good thing as one will pray for God's mercy in this life and the next.

So what is going on your mind when you're sitting there, presumeably in rapture praying for almighty intervention of the status quo?

Could it be so,the act of prayer itself provides the comfort as Naden hinted?