war

[Sayyid]

No compensation is due! We have to diffirentiate people who occupy houses, land and other properties that does not belong to them and others who were trusted with it.

 

For the trustee (the one who has been asked/ordered to look after the property), who can be a family member, neighbour or simply someone who is paid or excercises the right and benefit of rentless property as a somekind reward can only stay as long in the house at it's original property owner permitts them to stay.

 

They actually both benefit and if the owner says "pack your bags and leave", then they have to leave immidiately and in due course because it is not their property and land etc.

 

They leave with no compensation and can only take their possessions such as decoration, furniture and clothes!

 

As for the one who illegally occupies a land, property etc he/she is definately not entitled to any compensation! They must be kicked out because they have lived in a property that does not belong to them.

 

But what about the person who has been sold the property in a false pretence of owning it and only after did they realise that they were "cheated" and bought land off people who did not own it in the first place.

 

This people have to be compensated or left alone till they find somewhere else to go. They need help from all kind of people! But they should nevertheless leave and hand in the keys to the "original" owner of the property and land etc.

 

Somalia is today in this state because precisely of these things. You see people so-called neighbours "extending" the boundries of their land and property etc because out of greed!

 

This people will get their reward in the hereafter inshallah!

[Katrina]

If anything, I blv some compensation and gratitude is due to me.

Loool @ "me", CW if/when you make it to Xamar let me know. I'll have your back and vice versa. What an amazing mom you've got.

[N.O.R.F]

Katrina says:

 

I feel for those who live there now but I know the land will always belong to those who bought it.

Correct

 

My father lived outside somalia for more than 40 yrs and guess what? He poured his hard earned money back into somalia. He sent his money back to build houses and property with the intent of retiring and dying there. He is the most patriotic somali I have ever come across and when the war happened and our lands where demolished or taken by others. I saw a piece of him die. Do they deserve compensation? That is a matter of emotion and not the law. I would hope those who return treat them with due respect and try to work out a compromise but it sure as heck wasn't my father's fault the war occured nor where they asked to improve or renovate the house.

Those not improving/rebuilding the property should not be entitled to compensation.

 

CW says:

 

We have a house in Xamar. My mum built it all by herself while my dad was busy hopping around the world gaining double masters in the late 80ties. When the war broke out, we left my grandfather incharge but he left after a while too, leaving the house to the neighbours (or the people that moved there after the war). Now I know for a fact that they keep the house well and live in it like it was theirs... but I dont feel they are entitled to any of it or any compensation. After all, they have lived there for over 10yrs now at no cost.

Have you been paying your taxes on the house? Have been contributing to the up-keep of the city? I know it probably wasnt possible but that can the argument coming from the current occupiers.

 

ps show odeygu waa mutacalin

[ElPunto]

^^^^LOL - I doubt anyone 'pays' taxes on property in Mog nor do they 'contribute' to the city! It wouldn't be the way it is if they were

[Khayr]

Salamz,

 

Originally posted by ThePoint:

quote:Originally posted by Curling Waterfall:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Northerner:

Doing it it for ones self or not, the 'maintenance' occured to the advantage of the owner, thus some sort of comp is only fair but not a leglity. I'm questioning whether this should be made a legal issue.

The 'maintenance' occurred to the advanatage of the residents. Ma waxaad ku dhex noolaan lahayd aqal isku qudhmey oo dumay? Even as a renting customer, you're obligated to maintain the house and any damage to the property waa lagugu soo dalici kara. Thats how it works in the rest of the world.

 

Occupants should be grateful they lived rent-free for years in some1 else's property and get the hell out when the owners come back to reclaim what is rightfully theirs.

I totally agree with this outlook - it seems to me strange to receive compensation when you were living there rent-free.

I mean even if the individual left the place in better shape and he asks for compensation - can't u ask for the rent for all those years?

 

Isn't this also against Islamic rules to occupy or take something that is not yours? Anyone there who can enlighten us on this aspect of the issue. Of course, in dire poverty etc it is understandable - but personally speaking I would do my utmost to refrain from that. But in our screwed up society - there are individuals who race to occupy/set up shop in others property.

Saxib, what if the maintenance of the home was more then rent for all those yrs? What if the occupant paid an 'arm and long' in defending that TRUST of the land that has been given to him?

 

I don't know of the fiqh rulings on this but maybe some nomads can help us out, inshallah.

 

Fi AMANILLAH

[Katrina]

^He's pulling at strings sxb. loooool

[ElPunto]

^^There was no 'trust' given - it simply was an occupation. I'm sure the Palestinians 'trust' the Israelis with their land. And for maintenance that was not asked for the risk lies with the individual who undertoook something that was not asked of him/her.

[LayZie G.]

My family has 3 houses that are in good standing. We have care-takers who live in the homes and we appreciate them enough to sent money as a form of appreciation. My family also has several lands, one which I own, thank allah we actually have the proper documentations with us still, but that doesn't mean those care-takers have a right to claim my family's home as theirs.

 

When my father had purchased these lands for each of his 4 children way way back when somalia was somalia, he did it so that when we were old enough we would build it and make a home for ourselves and thats just what I intend to do, and if anyone stands my way, I assure you it will not be pretty.

 

The key is to have all of your proper documentations, if you don't have it, you have no leg to stand when the time comes to claim your property.

 

I don't have a beef with people staying in other people's homes and taking care of it as long as they are out of the door when the owners arrive.

 

The moral of my story is, no one can fight out your own land, yes you were a care-taker, but even care-takers know their place in the world and that is to get lost when time comes. I will even go as far as giving them eviction notice prior to my arrival, na mean.

[Khayr]

Originally posted by ThePoint:

^^There was no 'trust' given - it simply was an occupation. I'm sure the Palestinians 'trust' the Israelis with their land.

And for maintenance that was not asked for the risk lies with the individual who undertoook something that was not asked of him/her.

Its not an OCCUPATION (as that term conjures up imagery associated with the palestinian conflict) b/c there is an 'assumed consent' btwn the Owner and the 'Occupant'.

 

In anycase, i saw something on a site about 5mins ago but the LEGAL jargon/wording via FIQH were difficult and very drawn out. Inshallah, some one can post it.

 

I gotta run

 

Fi Amanillah

[-Serenity-]

North and Kheyr, unfortunately I cant see it from your angle AT ALL .

 

1. No one pays tax or such in Somalia on their property. There is no govt and thats why we r in this pickle.

2. One has no rights building or improving existing property without the consent of the owner. If one is dumb enough to do it (counting on chaos to continue for eternity and maybe the owners completely giving up), then its their loss. And if it is with consent, then agreements must be made.

3. The upkeep can never be more than the rent. If a person has so much money to spend on a single property, they aught to build their own!

 

To me, it seems clear cut really.

[Jacpher]

Kheyr & North, before we ask for compensation and go to the fiqh of the matter, may be should ask ourselves if we are given permission and the key to the property by the owner?

 

I might be asked to give compensation to the owner since I occupied a house, which I certainly have no permission to reside. If permission is granted, the tenant had to ask again for permission to remodel or protect the house and at what cost. It’s very sticky area as Katrina said. One should have a contract either written or oral to get compensation. You don’t walk into a Star Bucks and ask for compensation for guarding their parking lot. No one has employed you to do the job.

[Suldaanka]

In the old days, the nomads used to say kul fitna cinda geel, thesedays its more like kul fitna cinda dhul. More people in Somaliland died from land related disputes than any other cause. I think the local newspapers should start having a "Land Toll" like we have "Road Toll" in Western countries. That would put things in perspective, wouldn't it? :rolleyes:

 

Anyways, I like the new phrases that this issue gave birth to like "Markhaati Beenaale" - a person who will swear on behalf of you while in court that the piece of land belongs to you, when it isn't. And Ku Qabso Ku Qadimayside - just claim it, you won't go empty handed. :eek:

 

I don't know if you guys watched Maguuraan, but there was a scene in one of the sequels, I think sequel 3 or 4 (not sure), about an old man who owned a farm on the outskirts of Hargeisa. Another man, a long lost neighbor who knew that the farm belonged to the old man, comes along and claims the farm as being his.

 

The issue goes to a lengthy court. The determined heartless other man, does everything that he can including bribing the judges, so that a dicision goes to his favoure. And it eventually does. :mad:

 

But the sad thing was what the old rightous man does on the day when he was handing over the keys to the farm to the heartless man. The old man brings along an empty sack and fills it up with sand from his farm and then strugles to carry it on his back. The heartless man, bewildered by this, comes to the oldman and asks why he would want to carry a sack full of sand all the way to his home which is about 20Kms away. The old man replies "Aaakhiro waxa tunka aad ku qaadi doonta beertayda waxa ciid yaala oo dhan" (or something to that effect). The heartless man begins to melt with emotions after witness the hardship the oldman is going through carrying that heavy sack. Crying, he calls out load that the farm WAS NOT HIS, BUT IT BELONGS TO THE OLD MAN.

 

It is a scene from a Somali film, not a reality. but things like that do happen.