Bad move

[Som@li]

[Jacaylbaro]

The very bad move ....................

[N.O.R.F]

Good move

[Complicated]

Well good move and bad move is not enough of an answer here, on what grounds do you oppose or support it.

 

PS. Can someone please keep PeaceNow out of this topic, hadii kale haduu lasoo galayaa nacaladii uu ku saydhi jiray Carabta without any justification.

[N.O.R.F]

Somalia’s main reason for joining the Arab League was to have the backing of an organisation which consisted of 20+ nations to counter the Ethiopian threat which has always had the west’s backing.

 

So politically it was a good move at the time (whether or not it worked is irrelevant).

 

Free travel and an easier work visa process meant that Somalis could live and work in Arab countries at a time when jobs were scarce in Somalia. Money made by Somali expats resulted in small businesses springing up in Somalia.

 

I’m assuming trade tariffs between Somalia and Arab countries were reduced due to membership.

 

In addition, being Arab League members made it easier for rich Arab nations to provide aid/loans.

 

Let's hear why it was a bad move.

[Som@li]

First of All, Somalis are not treated any different from citizens who are not a member in the Arab league, Pakistanis, Indians , Iranians, or Somalis are treated the same, there is no favour, except Syria which believed Pan Arab and Somalis used to travel there without visas. Somalis were in the Gulf countries way before we joined the Arab league.

 

Somalis working in the Gulf countries was the biggest problem, what happens when all the educated run away from their country? And fools and illiterates are left to run the country? Somalis moving to gulf countries bring relatively a smallsuccess, but it had a big “Brain drain” effect, which might not have happen if Somalia hadn’t joined the Arab league.

 

I am not putting all self inflicted problems, and how Somalis themselves destroyed Somalia, but joining the Arab league, had some thing to do with the situation we are in today.

 

Arab league was a bad influence, and had slowed down the development of the country, we moved from country setting examples in Africa, Neck to Neck with Malaysia in terms of development, looking forward self sufficient, to a nation relying on hand outs.

 

The most serious consequence, Somalia became a proxy for wars where the Arab members like Egypt didn’t have the balls to fight directly.

 

So, It was clearly a bad move, the disadvantages far outweigh the benefits of the joining the league of losers.

[Allamagan]

^ blame it on dowlad la'aanta maanta! Had we had a strong and united Somalia, then things would not have been the same as the status quo meaning the AL would forced to bargain with Somalia for the better incl. good incentives in order to stay in the leage or see Somalia finding (joining) herself in other cooler league in the area

 

In 1974, there must have been thorough reasons for the Gov of Somalia to join the AL from ecomomical and historical perspective.

[N.O.R.F]

Dabshid,

 

The educated didn’t run away. They were forced out due to a lack of opportunities in Somalia. Being AL members made it easier for a lot of people to find work and settle in the Gulf/Egypt. You can’t blame the ‘brain drain’ that may have occurred on membership of the AL as there was no work for them in Somalia in the first place.

 

Are you saying being members of the AL contributed to Somalia's downfall?

 

How did being a member stifle development?

 

Somalia was never used as a proxy by any AL members. Egypt’s problem with Ethiopia is well documented but Somalia became ‘convenient’ when it was flexing it’s muscles in the lead up to the Og.den war.

 

I still disagree saxib.

[Jacaylbaro]

Originally posted by Norfsky:

Somalia’s main reason for joining the Arab League was to have the backing of an organisation which consisted of 20+ nations to counter the Ethiopian threat which has always had the west’s backing.

 

Which was a complete mistake as nothing such thing happened in real. They could not support Somalia during the 1977 war, they could not provide anything but small trainings and consultants from Egypt.

 

 

 

Free travel and an easier work visa process meant that Somalis could live and work in Arab countries at a time when jobs were scarce in Somalia. Money made by Somali expats resulted in small businesses springing up in Somalia.

 

Travel have never been easy for Somalis and they were treated like the rest of the countries. Even Ethiopia have better treatment when it comes to travel to Arab countries than Somalis, not only now but even during the war with Ethiopia. Somalis were called all the names "Abd" and so on. Expeling people was the major import from Arabs to Somalia in all times.

 

 

I’m assuming trade tariffs between Somalia and Arab countries were reduced due to membership.

 

Well, not sure about this. I thought it is because of the sea border with the Arabs and the long history of trade between Somalis and Arabs.

 

 

In addition, being Arab League members made it easier for rich Arab nations to provide aid/loans.

 

This can be the main purpose why Siad Barre made the move to join the Arab leage. Yes, they did give loans and provided cash to the big heads but they did not made any investment on the ground.

 

 

Let's hear why it was a bad move.

All the above.

 

[Abu-Salman]

Is it because of negative individual experiences in the Gulf, Arab promotion of Somali unity and sheer envy that Somalis, of all people, criticise Arab countries?

 

 

All the reasons given here could be summarized as this:

 

-Joining the Arab League did not have any effect on Somalis

 

-Arab military aid was insufficient and their aid was misused.

 

In the first case, why then on earth complain about joining all the powers in both Africa (Egypt, Lybia, Algeria etc) and Asia when we were most vulnerable, abondoned even by the Soviets?

 

Concerning corruption, how could Arab aid be spared when even billions borrowed from both the West and the Communists were squandered, and we are supposed to repay their interests for a long time?

 

How many countries were willing to provide us with decent fighter jets and their fuel free of charge, including our so-called "allies" or historical relations?

 

 

To sum it up with the Basics, since we enjoy debating with more emotion than rational thinking and facts:

 

-Arab allies have always supported us in our most critical moments despite numerous challenges; eg Egypt support during colonial oppression, Iraqi military rations in 77, Saudi food and doctors in 91, Yemeni, Sudanese or Syrian "open doors" policy etc.Indeed, Infinite instances of unprecedented generosity could be cited, like a Sudanese humanitarian gift of $6 millions in the 90s, endless scholarships, Qatari intervention at the UN security council during the 2006 Ethiopian invasion, Arab Medias coverage of Somalis plight both in Somalia and Somali Galbeed, assistance to freedom fighters in Somali Galbeed etc

 

-Somalis strategic interests as well as security concerns (Galbeed and NFD freedom) and Arabs' ones totally converge (to state the most obvious).

 

-Somali economic progress is closely linked with our relations with countries such as Saudi Arabia, the Emirates and even Yemen; Somalis businesses already thrive in places like Dubai and use it as a platform.

 

-Any foreign cooperation and relation would centers around places like Khartoum, Doha, Cairo or even Djibouti for that matter; no other country face exactely the same threats/challenges in every aspect or have similar ties with us (let alone any natural sympathy)

 

-Most crucially, Anti-Arab propaganda is a favorite theme for neo-colonialists and their local secular allies since Arab culture and Arabic could bring the masses closer to Islam...