Che -Guevara

So it begins, Federal Govt issues statement on election process in Jubbaland

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Samafal   
6 minutes ago, Haatu said:

Niyow ninna ma xanaaqsana. Taariikhda dhulkayga uun baan ku barayaayee si deggan cashirka u dhuux. Nimankii Wardeyda ahaa waa la addoonsaday oo beelihii xulufada ahaa baa kala qaybsaday oo Wardey Soomaali baa loo bixiyay. Af Soomaali ayaa la baray, magacyo Soomaaliyeedna waa la siiyay. Addoon walboo wardey Soomaali ahna wuxuu sheegan jiray qabiilka ninka lahaa.

Hase yeeshee waxaa dhacday in addoomo badan ay falaagoobeen, qaarne ay dileen nimankii lahaa. Markay in mudda ah socotay, beelihii xulufada ahaa way shireen, Afmadow in lagu shiray ayaan jeclahay, sifa looga arrinsado dhibka soo kordhay. Waxaa la isku raacay in addoomaha la wanaajiyo, gabdhaha wardeyda ahna uusan nin Soomali ah guursan iyo arrimo kale oo la doonayay in lagu sasabo.

Waxaa go'aankaas diiddey duqeyda Reer Gedo oo ku adkaystay in saan uusan xaalka ku socon karin. Waxay yiraahdeen intey Wardeyda addooma yihiin aan nabad la heli doonin. Waxay soo jeediyeen in Wardeyda la xoreeyo, markaasna ay sheegtaan qabiilka xoreeyay. Laakiinse beelaha kale way diideen oo addoonsiga ayay ku adkaysteen. Taas waxay sababtay in Wardeyda Reer Gedo la degganaa ay MX wada noqotay (aqoonyahannada qaarkood waxay qabaan in 70% reer Gedo ay Wardey yihiin dhalasha ahaan, Allahu aclam). Kuwii kalana ama way baxsadeen, ama waxaa la xoreeyay 60kii markay Kenya xornimo heshay (kuwii dhanka Talyaaniga ma ogi markii la xoreeyay). Waxaa xusid mudan in Wardeydii Gedo degganayd uusan hal nin ah ka imaanin oo by that time ay Soomaalida ku wada milmeen, meesha beelihii kale dad badan ay ka soo baxeen. Kuwa badan markii la xoreeyay webiga Ganaane ayay ka tillaabeen oo maanta walaalahood Ormada ayay la degan yihiin aagga Bangal oo Gaarisa u dhow (waad u tegi kartaa oo wareysan kartaa haddaad beentay moodeyso). Marka nimankaas mar horaa dhulka laga qaadayee, maanta taaka ma sheegan karaan.

Kuwa kale ee wadanka 90meeyadii daaqa ku yimid waa walaalaheen, xuquuqna way leeyihiin, laakiin ma aha in ay dhulka oo dhan sheegtaan, maantana ajnabi Kenya ka imid igu tilmaamaan. Taas waaye midda aan diiddanahay ee ma ila fahantay? 

Kkkkk Bal inoo sheeg tixraaca sheekadaada (reference). In sheekadaada wax ka khaldanyihiin waxaad ku garanaysaa maanta qabiil Warday ladhaho baa wali dagan Jubada hose iyo Dhexe. Marka inaadan warkaagu sheeko xariir iska yahay taas baa cadayn u ah.

Tankale, qabiilka aad leedahay 90kii buu yimid waa qoloma? Reer Gedo?

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Haatu   
55 minutes ago, Samafal said:

Kkkkk Bal inoo sheeg tixraaca sheekadaada (reference). In sheekadaada wax ka khaldanyihiin waxaad ku garanaysaa maanta qabiil Warday ladhaho baa wali dagan Jubada hose iyo Dhexe. Marka inaadan warkaagu sheeko xariir iska yahay taas baa cadayn u ah.

Tankale, qabiilka aad leedahay 90kii buu yimid waa qoloma? Reer Gedo?

Waxaaga waa un muran indhala'. Soo maan ku dhihin Wardeydii Talyaaniga ku hoos noola ma ogi goor la xoreeyay? Marka haddaad leedahay weli Jubbooyinka niman Wardey la dhahaa ku nool, dee waa uun kuwii la xoreeyay goor ay ahaydba. As for tixraaca sheekada, dad taariikhdooda haaya baanu nahay oo odayaasha gobolka ayaa weyddiin kartaa. Haddaadan taas ku kalsoonayna, buuggan akhri 'Herder Warfare in East Africa: A Social and Spatial History, by Gufu Oba'. Taariikhda waa la wada haayaa, ninna been kama sheegi karo.

Reer Gedo beelihii xulufada ahaa ee dhulka xoreeyay ayay ka tirsan yihiin. Dadkaan u jeedo way isgaranaayiin, haddaad adiga garanayninna, xogogaal maba tihid ee hawlahan faraha kala bax.

Ilaahow nimaan wax ogayn ha na cadaabin. Dad wada Samafal oo kale ah oo taariikhda Waamo aan xaraf ka garanaynin baa raba in ay maanta faalloodaan. Weger.

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At this point,  you are chasing each other's tails. We can all agree the lower Somalia is vey diverse. Only political inclusivity will work there whether one lives in the city or the countryside.

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Apophis   
10 minutes ago, Che -Guevara said:

At this point,  you are chasing each other's tails. We can all agree the lower Somalia is vey diverse. Only political inclusivity will work there whether one lives in the city or the countryside.

Is as “diverse” as pirateland i.e, it is not.

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Samafal   

Haatu, adiga waamada aad kasheekaynaysid ma NFD baa? Talyaanigu Jubaland oo dhan buu kala wareegay ingiriska, marka hadii aadan waxba ka aqoon dhulka Talyaniga dee wax lagaala hadla majirto. Hadaad NFD ka hadlaysid iyo meesha cidiinu ubadantahay ma aqaan lakin Jubaland cid walba waa joogta kibir iyo anaa ubadan waxba masoo kordhinayso. Somaliduna waligayd reer guraa bay ahayd dhulka kala qaada, meel cusub u hayaama. Qolaa soo hayaantay maanta ama shalay waxba ma tarayso. Tanake waxan ku waydiyay yaa waaye qoladan dhiga kugu kicisay o 90ki yimi? kkk 

Anyway intaa hankala garto. Thank for the book, I will search for it.

 

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gooni   

 

Marka ugu horaysa kismayo sida lagu yaqaanay waxaa degi jiray dad ganacsi geeyay oo ka kooban somaali oo dhan, dad xeeb ku nool ah oo risiqooda badda ka doonta iyo dad xoolahooda ulasoo roob raaca.

Taa macnaheedu waligiis wuxuu ahaa gobol barwaaqo ah.

Magaalooyinka qadiimka ah sida kismayo berbara, marka, luuq muqdisho, muslin iyo gaalaba waa lagu wada noolaa.

Arinta labaad axmed madoobe waa nin xumaan iyo samaan labadaba leh

Samaanta anigu aan ku tix geliyo aragtidayda waxaa ka mida meelishiyadiisa wuxuu u sameeyay kala dambayn aysan qabiiladu isku dhicin dhexdooda gudaha kismaayo, waana arrin aad u muhiim ah.

Xumaantiisa waxaa ka mida jubbaland wuxuu ka dhigay magaalada kismaayo kalgeed oo uu kula fadhi diriro dawladda dhexe.

Waxaan qabaa inuu la tartami karo cid kasta haduu miisaanka madixiisa iyo lugihiisa isku dheeli tiro.

Tan magaalooyinka iyo qabiilada

Magaalo hal qabiil dego magaalo ma'ahan.

Tusaale hargaysa waa magaalo aad u wayn runtii waxay u kala degaan xaafad xaafad.beealaysan.

Ninka qurbaha ka yimaado oo doonaya inuu guri dhisto toos wuxuu u aadaa meesha beeshiisu degto xataa haday buurta naso hablood soo xirto.

Muqdisho ninbaa wuxuu ii sheegay inuu gurigiisii gaday oo uu isla muqdisho guri kale gatay, markii aan waydiiyay sababta uu gurigaa qaaliga u xaraashay wuxuu ii sheegay in beel dhib badan looga caray xaafadaasoo dhan.

Meel walba dhulkii soomaaliya ayadoo la wada degan yahay yaa hadana la kala deggan yahay ama lakala jufaysan yahay tuulo laga bilaabo ilaa magaalo wayn.

Hadii aad ka hesho magaalo loo wada dhan yahay dhulka soomaalidu degto sidii aan beri ahaan jirnay, ka iibso guri, waa hadii aad hesho waa fursad dahabi ah

Inta aad ka cararayso qabiil aad is leedahay waa kaa fog yahay ogow jufadaadaa sii kala jufaysan.

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This thread has turned into the usual Somali nonsense of who came where and when; which, I believe, in the great scheme of things, is all irrelevant.

Ultimately, Jubaland like the rest of Somalia, belongs to Somalis, and no matter how much one tries to claim sole ownership of the place over it vis-à-vis other Somalis, the fact will remain that NO single clan, family or individual will ever dominate Jubaland and for that matter the rest of Somalia.

 

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Haatu   
59 minutes ago, Tillamook said:

This thread has turned into the usual Somali nonsense of who came where and when...I believe in the great scheme of things, it’s all irrelevant.

Ultimately, Jubaland like the rest of Somalia, belongs to Somalis, and no matter how much one tries to claim sole ownership of the place over it vis-à-vis other Somalis, the fact will remain that NO single clan, family or individual will ever dominate Jubaland and for that matter the rest of Somalia.

 

You're right, Somalia belongs to all Somalis. Can we extend that notion to Puntland as well? Or is it just for Jubbaland?

PS: Before others get other ideas, let me reiterate that I support and have always supported Soomaaliweyn and a strong centralized Somali state. I don't believe in federalism nor do I believe in any other foreign, imported notions of governance. That said, I refuse to stand by whilst others deny my existence and rights.

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18 hours ago, Haatu said:

You're right, Somalia belongs to all Somalis. Can we extend that notion to Puntland as well? Or is it just for Jubbaland?

PS: Before others get other ideas, let me reiterate that I support and have always supported Soomaaliweyn and a strong centralized Somali state. I don't believe in federalism nor do I believe in any other foreign, imported notions of governance. That said, I refuse to stand by whilst others deny my existence and rights.

First of all, Somalia belonging to Somalis is NOT a “notion”, it is an irrefutable FACT.

Secondly, since Puntland is Somalia and Somalia is Puntland; I will let you, at your own leisure, infer the answer to the snide and unwarranted question you’ve raised in here.

Thirdly, Bwana Haatu,  in my opinion, the only viable political mechanism now underway for Somalia to help entrench political freedoms and build accountable political institutions— and in which,  as you put it, you may fully protect your “existence and rights” is Federalism.  

Now it just might be that the term Federalism seems a bit “foreign” to your ears,  but it is nothing more than that old adage of Somalis: “Geeljire,  geela waa wada jirtaa, waana kala jirtaa”. The truth of which is recognized by the wisest as well as the simplest of Somalis.

Federalism ensures the “others” you refer to above, never again get the opportunity to trample upon your rights; whilst,  the strong Central state you call for risks the  incipient revivification of mass injustices and human rights abuses, akin to those suffered by most Somalis under the previous Kacaan regime.

By the by,  wasn’t the Centralism enforced by the former Kacaan government not a “foreign” form of governance over the nomadic peoples of the Somali peninsula?

Somalis, who had heretofore been a confederation of tribes and clans who were leading free and autonomous political associations codified under their own respective Xeer? 

In any case, Haatu,  your intentions for wanting a strong state and government for our people is commendable. However, I do not believe Centralism will lead to such an outcome.

Centralism, however well intentioned, in fact, almost always leads to some form of authoritarianism, which in turn almost always terminates with the collapse of a society, of one form or other. A prime example being the Somalia of the late 80’s among many other around the world.

On the contrary, it is Federalism, instead, with all its checks and balances—and is tune with Somalis tribal culture—that will deliver the correct outcome we all yearn for: A Somalia that is prosperous and at peace with itself and that competes effectively in the global space.

 

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galbeedi   

Haatu.

I wish I had intervened earlier to put my few cents earlier. Anyway, The Warday you call former slaves and keep denigrating are Somalis and have settlements in both Jubba and Kenya. They have members in the federal and Jubba parliament. 

I do not know where you get these stories. Also, I am not really sure but I remember an old friend of mine from Baydhabo told me  that the Farmaajo clan had settled in Gedo early twentieth century. Even Gedo itself is shared by others like Garre, and people from South West. Beledxaawo, Ceelwaaq and even baardhere might be shared by others.

I always heard that the OG were mostly based in Afmadow and Qooqaani area. Bedises, do you know how many OG were elected in the Somali parliament from 1960-69?, that could be a parameter to measure the population. I am assuming that the OG were not considered as principal players in those era. Please correct me if I am wrong .Either The population of the tribes in JUbba had grown tenfold for the last 30 years for many reasons,  immigration ,birth or otherwise , because , I never heard anyone claim these regions in the eighties , nineties or even early 2000, especially OG. .In early 2000, Walaalaha Galgaduud ayaa ka talinayey degaanka. 

And how about the locals whether they are Wardaay, Sheekhaal, Gaadsan, digil mirf, Bahjuun? They have less numbers than the Harti and others.

 

Certainly this place is different than many other regions dominated by one or two clans.

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Apophis   
7 minutes ago, galbeedi said:

Haatu.

I wish I had intervened earlier to put my few cents earlier. Anyway, The Warday you call former slaves and keep denigrating are Somalis and have settlements in both Jubba and Kenya. They have members in the federal and Jubba parliament. 

I do not know where you get these stories. Also, I am not really sure but I remember an old friend of mine from Baydhabo told me  that the Farmaajo clan had settled in Gedo early twentieth century. Even Gedo itself is shared by others like Garre, and people from South West. Beledxaawo, Ceelwaaq and even baardhere might be shared by others.

I always heard that the OG were mostly based in Afmadow and Qooqaani area. Bedises, do you know how many OG were elected in the Somali parliament from 1960-69?, that could be a parameter to measure the population. I am assuming that the OG were not considered as principal players in those era. Please correct me if I am wrong .Either The population of the tribes in JUbba had grown tenfold for the last 30 years for many reasons,  immigration ,birth or otherwise , because , I never heard anyone claim these regions in the eighties , nineties or even early 2000, especially OG. .In early 2000, Walaalaha Galgaduud ayaa ka talinayey degaanka. 

And how about the locals whether they are Wardaay, Sheekhaal, Gaadsan, digil mirf, Bahjuun? They have less numbers than the Harti and others.

 

Certainly this place is different than many other regions dominated by one or two clans.

It is true reer Gedo arrived in the 20th century, that is what the history books say but the OGs arrived in the 17th century and took the land from the ”gallas”.

 

Rhe definite book on the subject, at least for me, is: Through Jubbaland to the Lorian Swamp.

 

Then again I don’t expect you or any of the barking dogs here are at all interested nor have actual understanding of history.

The Ogs of the 60s were focused on Ethiopia and were supplanted by pirates who took their rightful seats in the federal parliament.

Most pirates on Kismayo arrived when Sharmake got into power. Before that Kismayo in the hands of OGs.

 

 

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Apophis   

That is one of the most fascinating book I have read on Somalis.

I found his description of pirates particularly funny.

I will try to get excerpts and highlights.

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Apophis   

In fact that book describes how the Ogs were on the move down to NFD and were pushing the boramas and the “wardey” across the tana.

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Everybody that is there is now there regardless when they came.

That is the only formulae that works the best.

The O are trying to take HoA one enclave at a time. Who is next, Mogadishu?

The Kenyans and Ethiopians are at risk of being ruled by the O next 20-30 years.

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