Mr. Ghe...You are partialy right the clans that live there now are infact new comers to the area. at the same time those same clans are infact defided in two: one group are actualy the original inhabitant, but once they changed religion they also change tribal alleagance. Today it might appear that they are all the same clans but the truth be told they area not there're plenty of recorded history of all somali calns changing clans joinning one, swithcing sides or melting on to other just as others melted on to them. That is a tactics the nomads have used. In true sence many of us buy the legend of samaale or etc. on the basis of somali nation, when if fact when you dig deeper you'll realize somali nation is more of a multible ethnics with similar culture and lunguage living in a region that came together in defence of religion of Islam at a time of great wars against people of different reliong who were our neighbors. Believe it or not there're were no people called Somalis until the wars with christian abbasynia began, but the clans of todays somalia existed and were recorded participating as their respective clans that joined the wars agains the christian invaders from the far north and later against the pagans from the west and south. Truth be told the nation of somalis started in the North and west. specialy those that became part of the Muslim emirits or kingdom that joing together in the wars agains abbysinia. Those clans or tribe were different some even spoke different lunguages, but today a lot of those original founders of somali nation are no longer considered somali due to the ne history based on nomadic history. Another reality that does not get mention is manny of the southern clans didn't became part of the somali nation until the wars agains the pagen from the south and west and the christian navies from the sea. Once those pagans were pushed back by the muslims in the south with the help of some from the north, they became part of somali nation. Now when it comes to Jubba region and NFD the people over there are some who moved to the area during the pagan wars and made those that converted to islam toincorporate to their clans and newer ones who moved to the are during the colonial time when abbysian with the helpp of their friends pushed other older western somalis into the region, and since those western somalis had already the means to subdue the smaller left over pagans and few but also somewhat formidable older Muslim stablished in the region already. More of them came after somali independence due to ethipian ethnic cleansing agains somalis of west plus the famines of the 70's. where do you thing alot of people that suffered those famine were settled in the Jubbas ofcourse. So, the history of somalia is not what we have always been tought in the schools that somalis are same ethnic and lunguage, but the only true part of that history is what made somalis one and will always make them one is Islam. That is why if you observe most of the our Xeer is based on Islamic princibals even in the nomadic culture.

Apophis;857427 wrote: ^^ edit and use paragraphs, it's near impossible to read and understand what you're saying. I wrote it fast I can see now there are some typo errors, but that is not the issue. english is not my first language and I will not deffend my english writting skills. having said that I am sure you anderstand the general direction I am going with that or is it your way of changing the subject when you know you've lost the argument... if that is the case I going stop you there and will not respond to anymore of your new discussion out side of the original conversation regarding the history of the somalis. we are not being graded here on our writting skills get the point. If you need to go places where you can do research about somalia. go to the US librery of Gongress, Boston public liberary, or Boston Univercity, you might also want to expand your horizon by traveling to a distant countries such us Egypt, yemen , Syria, France, Germany, Britian, and Italy, go to their Liberaries especialy the ones that have records and antiquity books. It helps to speak those lunguages, but there's always transilator and sometimes you might have to pay some money to get transilations.. some of the books you won't be able to take them out and are only seen once you submit ID etc.and please don't rip pages off, cause I have notice some of them pages have been torn from the books if it does not suite your clan view of somalia...

Apophis;857365 wrote: M Lewis- Somali conquest of the Horn of Africa Availabe here (only 1st page, rest under paywall): http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/180241?uid=3738032&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21100984675403 IM Lewis hsitory is not about all somalis. he studied noethern somalis only. Not all somalis are nomad that is the false history of somalia. read arab and muslim historian who came to somalia before the eurupian landed and turned the history of somalia upside down, and made sure the somali nomads to become the new rulers of somalia since they realized they are the least loyal to the country, and this is what made somalia's down fall and t was intended to make sure somalia never recover from white man's rule. Now Are you guys awere of Most of those thatclaim to be arab or forieng discent in Mogadishu have been in somalia for no more than four or five generation aske their abtirsiinyo that alone will tell you how long they have been in Mogadishu. so make sure you use calculation. Now, if you wanna know the older arab or [erisna decendant of mogadishu resident they have melted into the surounding society of somali clans the only way you can tell them from other somalis is by DNA test so folks tell me who went out to test somali DNA? Lets ask our selfs even italian who ruled somalia never included the older section of Mogadishu resident as Arabs or different ethnic from other somalis. This division started with british w=once they took over Mogadishu from Italy and later re-inforced my Italian when they returned. The only one they have iin Mogadishu as separate race were the ones that lived in the neighborhood of villago arabs in somali it is called bilaajo arab, and those are the ones most of somalis think they are the owners of Mogadishu when infact those came to somalia in late 1700 with Said Barqash families more of them came with Italian as hired soldiers from Yemen maily and they inter merried with the local old residences of Mogadishu. Ask yourself why Ibn Batuto who was an arab himself didn't call Mogadishu residences arabs when he came to Mogadishu 1300's . we know he mention that there were an egyptian judge who was adviser to the ruler in Mogadishu and he also mention a few other individuals from other Arab countries who were there in the court of the ruler of Mogadishu. he specifacaly called the people of Mogadishu and their ruler as Berber ethnic. Why would he do that if he knew them to be arabs them selfs or even persians and etc. also read the other syrian geographer who visited Mogadishu before Ibn Batuto for more than 100 years he too said the same. Now for all of you here that are looking at thing from he prism of tribal mentality. there's a reason why europians want you to think Somalis are nomad and it has a lot to do with with control and subjugetion of the people of somalia. they want you to think that you are unable to create a system of governance, that you could never compete with your christian neighbor and their favorate child in the horn. That is why it is ignore the history of the the old rulers of Makhiir, or Awdal or Bay, Bakool, lower shabeele, western somalia or Mogadishu and banaadir as whole. that is why Harar today is sebarated from somalia an is no longer considered part of somali history. So please go do researches and you'll know the somali history and what somali sociate were capable of building. No denying that we had help from other Muslim neighbors specialy in the area of religion and islaic jurisprudence, but we should never denny ourselves the truth about our contribution to building our nation, and what the settled calns contributed to somali history. Europian are new comers to somalia, if you want to know somali history go to he Muslim liberaries or even the white men's libreries and do a little digging and you'll know that somalias history is not Nomadic history alone. I for one use tobe as guilty of thinking that way until I found out Very and very old somali books written in somali using arabic alphapet that were stolen from somalia. We somalis keep looking our history with clan eyes rather than appreciate what each each region of somali contributed to the history of somalia. I will never deny arabs or I should say other muslims contributed the building and advancement of Mogadishu and it's surroundings, but were smaller immigrant families and most did not comae to Mogadishu until after 1600 to 1700 and bigest wave of them came in late 1800 to early 1900, and by them Mogadishu lost it's Somali or Berber look due to wars and blockades by sea started by Bortugese and excelarated by Omani and then Europians. Untill then Peace

Learn History before you compare Mogadishu to Kismayo. Mogadishu was a major city for theb etter part of last 1000 yrs and Kismayo was a fishing village as late as 1900's. we Somalis tent to muddle things and lie a lot. My question is when did the wagosha folks lived in Kismayo? they homeland as it tests to their name was Gosha. Do people here know where gosha is? You peopel here don't make coments untill you know Geography and History then post something here...

Khadafi;857335 wrote: I concur Apophis from xamar to marka cadeey If that is the case then you and your like should be sent back to Yemen or whatever the hell the devil spit you off..

Let us define what LAND means: As Noun. it means= earth - ground - country - soil - territory - nation inhabitants who leave in the eastern horn of africa are called Somali and all the area they occupy are called Somalilands. The Somalis are devided into clans, sub-calns, sub-sub-clans into infinity. In reality each clan lives somewhat a defined territory within the Somalilands.Presentday Somalis, majority of them are Ignorant or misinformed though some would claim to have a degree of somesort from some place know or unknow. Also, they are mostly Egotistics, irritable, incoherent and most of all dishonest when it comes to the past and present events. For some strange reason they are very loyal to a stranger than to each other, but I guess it has alot to do with previous mentioned discribtions wich renders them to distruss each other. They love to argue about the trivial things. For fun they like to incite and enjoy to pass their time in insidious actions. Now, Oh ye Somalis be forewarn continue this path and face elimination from the rest of the world and your lands shall pass on to those deserving it, or reform and chose the path your allmighty ALLAAH SWT laid infront of you. Fight against injustice and stand by the righteous, or face the wrath of Allaah SWT, But I doupt you'll ever practice what Massenger Muxammad brought you from Allaah. Allaah Help us.....Peace

What arrogant, rude, hateful, fascist, ignorant comment. To say people should vacate and uproot themselves because you believe a non Somalis, non Africans non Muslims once over 100 yrs ago came to the norther shores made illegal encroachment, never honored one treaty they signed with the natives and you want the people respect that treaty and abide by because you feel someone committed crime against your family (mind you that that criminal was committed against all Somalis in that country, not that you would care). HHMM . What would you say if someone says since you don't like to be part of Somalia (mind you the union was done by Somalis Africans and Muslims wish is more legit) you and your kind should leave all Somali territory what would your reaction be? Mr. jungle like your nick name people don't live in the jungle they settle their argument without resorting to ethnic cleansing of those oppose to them. There's an international law against that don't end up of the receiving end of that law. Remember that those that you think are your friend will not hesitate to send you to Guantanamo bay once your need expires, and like I said Wax badso intaad is leedahay, wax la'aani yeysan kugu dhicin. No one would leave their land for you without a fight and when pullets start flying you have no idea who will get chased. Live in peace and let others live in peace or don't cry later if you choose a war.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If the above mentioned people are clanist so are you sir. Somalis have the tendency to point finger at others while they totaly and shamelessly disregard their shortcomings, lie inorder to further the interest of few to the detrimental safety of all. I believe no one should be forced to join a counrty or sociaty he or she does not wish to be part of. It's time for all somalis to be honest to one another ( I doubt that will ever happen) or accept the consequences. Once and for all stop this pointless argument over who is first the chicken or the egg issue. Britian left Somalis in disarray, treat them like animals and left them half dead for what's left of Somalia, and they inturn treated each other worse, and here they all claim to have played no part of all the problems that occured the last 52 years and are still doing it. I have come to realized Somalis became cowards, faithless and godless. If You can not coexist leave eachother alone in peace because like it says ( Wax badso intaad is leedahay yeysan waxla'aani kugu dhicin). While you all seek clan hegemony don't loose what you already have. Say alhamdulillahi if you believe in ASWT and protect your two mile square forget about what you think you inhereted from a foriegner AKA UK or keep it up and when you burn don't plame anyone else but your self. My Vavorate quete "get busy living or get busy dying". Peace

DUDE, Please don't give other misinformation. Salaad Gabeyre's are not involved any politics and are not interested in this tribal messed up system of governing in somalia at this moment. plus none of the living sons of salaad gabeyre is named Liibaan. PS. Gabeyre is a common name and you'll be surprice howmany people have last name as Gabeyre so please people don't assume anyone named Gabeyre is somehow related to Salaad Gabeyre thank you all.

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UMAL ZAMZAM, U might be right that Al-Shabab might have brought some semblance of order in the south and the area they control, but unfortunately what they are using is not a true Islamic Sharia. I am sorry to tell you Al-Shabab though sincere guys and mean well, are too ignorant and backward to realize their actions are making people hate Islam and are indirectly assisting the enemy of Islam take a hold of the country further. Having said that those that oppose the Al-Shabab have chosen a method that can be summed up as being infidels, their action, words and behaving are nothing short of the devils work. Their hatred of Al-Shabab have taken them outside or the realm of Islam and they don't even know it, and if they do the don't care. They are nothing short of the army of Shaytaan. They will never admit or recognize their crime. They will lie, bare witness to falsehood, cheat, deny if necessary the Qur'aan. They will ally themselves with those who hate Allah SWT and His messengers RA in order to achieve their aims. Therefore, no matter what and how much you try to tell them the good things Al-shabab achieved, they will still deny and say the infidels have saved the people knowing that it was their friends that butchered, massacred destroyed the people of Somalia. One thing is for sure Al-shabab need a serious educations of how to apply Islam, but unfortunately it can't happen at this time because their enemy is relentless, too great and powerful, and because of that the young men in Al-shabab camp have not yet mastered how to defeat such enemy due to lack of their education in Islamic philosophy and art of war, and until they (Al-Shabab) recognize their weakness, and start to take actions to reform, they'll be stuck in situation that can only be described as living purgatory and will never win against the enemy of Islam in general and Somalia particular, no matter what they do or gain in the short run. All I can say is may the people of Somalia Allah have mercy on them, cause they find themselves between the rock and hard place.

"dont mind my ignorance." looool....The smartest thing you have said so far. That was what Che told you earlier, so why not take advice and follow it. forget about my comments all of them...BTW this is not about political disagreement anymore it's about life and death for the somali nation, and the reason Banaadir is burning is because reer banaadir will not accept foreign domination any more, and the enemy knows it and knows that if they loose in banaadir the loose the whole south, and if they loose the whole south they can kiss good bye the interest in the HOA...Little boy/girl whatever U R educate yourself to the world geopolitics. BTW stop saying you feel sorry for banaadir and the ppl of the south we might be dying, but we will not accept less than freedom for our homeland that is all of somalilands.prior 2006 the wars in the south were fitna wars, but now it's give me freedom and liberty or give death....got the picture...

i AM NOT LIKE U. I DON'T KILL, CLEANSE OR DISCRIMINATE AGAINST MY PPL, BUT YEAH i WILL CLEANSE THE TRAITORS AND THEIR MASTERS OUT OF SOMALILAND. SO IF YOU ARE TRAITOR, COLLABORATOR, AND ETC OF THE ENEMY THEN FEAR, IF NOT THEN YOU HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR, ALLAH SWT'S JUSTICE, EQUALITY AND BROTHERHOOD SHALL REIGN OVER ALL SOMALILANDS. IF YOU HAVE PROBLEM WITH THAT I TOLD YOU WHAT YOUR OPTIONS ARE. YOU LAY YOUR BED SLEEP ON IT GOT IT. DONE WITH YOU NO MORE RESPONSE OVER THIS SUBJECT TO THOSE THAT ARE ANTI SOMALI..........

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL Do U really think I care of what you are saying...I guess U have not read my previous statements and understood them. I'll make it short for U: Celebrate for the time being as much as you want. I am glad U have are not destroying my Somaliland cities which you control for now and are displacing my ppl. Rest Assured once I drive the invaders and their collaborators in the south Somaliland, I'll send the Gen. Sherman of Somaliland in the north and will make sure that he cleans there from the invading occupiers and their collaborators. I'll pray to Allah SWT that he grants us the victory over his enemy, and U pray to your earthly Masters in Addis or whatever capital city they might reside and your fake God Jesus that I don't, cause if I do U R in big trouble. All Somalilands will never ever gonna suffer this indignation again...Till then ????????

May Allah SWT give them victory over our enemy..AAMIIN

lol lol BTW Walaal BANAADIR IS SOMALILAND, So is Bari, Bay, Bakool plus ad that to Jabuti, NFD and the ******, Hawd and all the regions inhabited by Muslims in the HOA.. Got the picture.I do know a lot about the cultures of northern Somaliland it's the same as the one in southern, western and eastern Somalilands with slight variations depending on their hapitation and the needs of the ppl on that particular part of the country's need for survival...Just like here in the USA ppl basically have the same culture throughout the country with slight variations that enriches them, makes them proud to be American and you don't hear them wanting to break up their country over that. And if you know some of the history of America they went through civil war which was worst than the one somalia is going through, but they were lucky enough to have ppl who loved their country more than their petty selfish interest and decided to save their union.. What R u doing???????

Also Banaadir was founded by somalis of mixed back ground. Original Banaadir settlement was not empty when Arab and Persian emigrants came ashore, but it's true their contribution enriched the settlement and contributed to it's tranformations. What you are saying does not make any sence it's like saying Mexico was founded by the Spaniards, forgetting the Mayan culture in which the Spaniards expanded and transformed is ridiculous.

BTW my relatives by blood include those that you called Persians, Arabs, other somali ethnic regardless of what regions they come from.And those that you want to consider foreign like you were calling them Arabs, etc. have never seem them self anything different but somali when they were traveling in another place outside of somalia and have always been proud of being somali who are you to tell us we are not somali and try to victimize us in order to divide my nation. True we suffered under the this calamity, because of ppl like you who interested short gains, and will suffer under this circumstances, but will regain our dignity and justice once we retake back our nation from the traitors like you.

Ignorance is a bliss. Banadiris are somalis whether Arab, Persian or Bantu decent, you still have not understood my argument have you???? Somali is not an ethnic moron it was and is a nation with multitude of ethnic whom share religion, culture, and territory. they came together in defense of those things when it became under threat from outsider whom were non muslims and formed that great nation. what some misguided nomad did in their search of food does not take those that you call Arabs, Persians or Bantus their rights of being somalis by nationality, unlike you who call himself somali, but despise his nationality. Those that you call Arabs, persians or bantus fought for somalia yesterday, are fighting for it today and will fight for it tomorrow and that is what made them somalis yesterday and makes them somalis today that is called nationalism. In all aspects of somalis history those that you want to make outside of the somali nation have always been at the forefront of the shape and form of somali nation and enriched it for the better. don't you know that every nation has gone through pain, trail and tribulations, and that is when the real owners of that country stand up for it and defend it with every fiber of their souls. they don't throw the towel and destroy further. Arabs , Persians and Bantus have stood by somalia. So let me ask you this since you call your self somali what have you done for your nation. I pet ZERO ZILCH, NADA, NIENTE, NOTHING SO ON AND SO FORTH, so you think you are somali????? from what I see they are not you....prove me wrong....

Like I said ppl like you are defending their treachery at any cost. If you really want to know if there was a country called somalia go and educated your self by going to the major libraries of the world. It's like saying was there a country called Italy prior 1800s..if you believe it existed then so does somalia in form or another, all you have to do is seek knowledge and then you find it, just don't be offended if you find out your clan was part of the weapon used to destroy the nation called somalia. If you find that out just accept it. it does not mean you did it, unless you continue the same path as your ancestors. I'll be the 1st to admit that some of my clan help the colonizers directly or indirect due to their lack of knowledge of their religion and culture, but at the same time others with in the same clan defended their country with every thing they had. I'm sure a lot of other clan were divided similarly. If you look at it somalia today history repeated it self some are defending occupation and divisions while others are fighting back with everything they got, and who every wins tomorrow will write the history of what they have accomplished making them self the heroes of the day. We all know which side you are so far, but you have time to change other wise I have no time to argue with the enemy see you at the battlefield and if you win you continue to write your version, and if I win I'll make sure to make the corrections of the mistake of today and yesterday so tomorrow my great grand children have a nation of their own not live a perpetual refugees scattered globally.

PPL, please learn history very well. THERE WAS NO COUNTRY CALLED ETHIOPIAN BEFORE 1955. THERE WAS ABYSSINIA NOT ETHIOPIA. It was Emperor Halie Selassie of Abyssinia who created the name Ethiopia with the advice of his European allies, he borrowed the old Greek name for the ppl of the African continent south of the Sahara. He did so for fear that once the republic of Somalia comes to existence that it may incite trouble for the Muslims under Abyssinian rule who where all called Somalis after Ahmed Guray unified the Muslims in the horn of Africa. he wanted a name that would trick and make the Muslims under his rule feel that they are part of the Abyssinian empire. BTW, there is no such thing as Somali as ethnic group, it was colonial concocted idea which was meant to divide the all the Muslim in the horn of Africa to make them easier for conquest. weather you know it or not the 1st ppl that were called Somali were the Adaris the rest of us jion it after Ahmed Guray expanded his domain in all direction of Muslim territories. The Somali name 1st appeared during the wars between Adal/Iffat and Abyssinia. It appeared in the Abyssinian lamentation songs after they were defeated. They were calling Somalis the ppl of the Emirate who merged together Adal/Iffat, and guest who the majority of those ppl were at that time, the Affar and most of the territory of iffat was what is the region known as danakil regions. the rest of of what we call somalis join in as the battles progressed and the Emirate dominion expanded and more smaller Emirates join in the fight and became under complete control of Adari led Emirate. At that time for the Abyssinian Somali were all Muslims that inhabited to their NE/E and South/SE. It was the European colonials whom assisted the Abyssinian in devising this treachery which has befallen on all Muslims on the HOA. It was they that came up with this division, and only succeeded with the help of the nomads of the east and north. the 1st dethroned the more settle and organized muslims of the west and south, then convinced the nomad they and they alone are true somalis while at the same time removing the true rulers of the nomads from power and installing their own choosing puppet rulers among the nomads. Once they succeeded in that they told the nomad you never had a unified country, then continuing they set one group of nomads against the other. And the story goes on till now that is why all of U here are debating the existence of Somalia as country prior of the arrival of Europeans. One thing is true Somalis of nomadic descent especially the masses had never know a unified country, because they just like other nomad society in the world the affairs of the state never touch them except in times of wars with foreign nations and day to day affair were between the chief of the nomad clan and the emissaries of the state. As we all know today's clan leaders who claim to have been ruling the same clan for generations, less we forget, are lairs they only came to power through betrayal and direct nomination of the colonial masters. Without that betrayal somalia might have been in a different position that it is today, but sadly we are where we are and those defending the idea of somalia not being a nation before are the children s of the descendants of those that betrayed their country, and have no interest of getting to the bottom of the real history of somalia because it might shed light to what their grand parents did during and after math of the scramble of somalia. So they have to defend at any cost the new version of the history written by their masters. we all know history is always written by the victors, and somalis and their nation were defeated over 100yrs ago.

LOL LOL LOL Aren't all Somali web media the same all HYPOCRITES. So, Why point finger at Laasqray? They are just slow to report....this is old new when U look at news cycle on the internet...Besides haven't U guys heard or seen the FOR SALE sign that says SOMALIA for Sale everything at a BASEMENT BARGAINED PRICE including humans trafficking.... Or U missed that LOL LOL LOL LOL

Guys if U look around and be honest do really believe that the guys running for office post at this junction of Somali drama has any loyalty to those ppl? seriously, think about it all of them I don't care what degree they are holding, U think any self respecting intelligent nationalist who deeply love his country and ppl will join any administration that is in control in any Somali inhabited area.Besides, having a degree from some University does not qualify someone to be smart or intelligent, that is Allah's gift to individuals. To be intelligent or smart is to be analytical of things and be creative or inventive, and also deeply understanding of the fundamental of things and be appreciative of them. From what I have observed most of the Somalis with degree are similar to those who memorized the Qur'aan from one end to the other and know each Ayah by heart, at the same time know very little of the meaning within. Having said that I am sure there some with great intelligence, unfortunately no one pays any attention to them which is the misfortune of the Somali nation of today.

Let's not celebrate yet. Let's wait and see what come up and bring for the sad ppl of that country, But I doubt that a government by foreigners and for foreigners bring any meaningful change to that country. On the other hand if these men are true muslims and somali nationalist they might actually prove me wrong, but that is only a wishful thoughts.

ASWJ as culumo LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL I'm not even so sure how many of the men claiming to be religious of that sect are in fact religious. They are simply the same ******** that were butchering ppl through out he south with the help of Abyssinian a few years ago and now they just changed the name and defiled what ASWJ really stands for, and for U to fall for that says a lot about you understanding of Islam in general and somali sad history in particular. BTW I have no love for AS at all, but to be honest AS at least have scrupulous not these traitor hooligans..and Dhuusamareeb is better off under AS than these ********.