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Meiji,
There is one major flaw with your argument. By comparing the USC to the Islamic Movement of Somalia you disqualified your whole case. Avid SOLers remember Dukey the clown using your argument in 2006.
The USC was funded and trained by foreign actors notably Ethiopia and Italy.
You can not compare one entity that is fighting to get rid of foreign meddling in Somali affairs with the USC that was nurtured by foreign parties.
The USC also had no ideology other than murdering and looting the property of people from certain clans. Whereas the wadaado do have an ‘ideology’, one that appeals to Somalis in every region. If I am wrong here feel free to correct me.
The USC crime of 1991 had and still has major influence in the war. Without that crime things may have turned out differently.
A question we need to ask ourselves is how can we move away on from that period?
Can we as a nation go forward while murderers like Qaybdiid who took part in those murders in 1991 are in the TFG?
The only way to redeem the crimes of the past is to get rid of the remnants of the warlord era.
Also initial political responsibility needs to be placed in the hands of the only clan neutral group in Somalia today, the wadaado who fight against any foreign interference, the same wadaado who have proven themselves to be loyal to the nation and the rule of law.
What the USC failed in 1991 should be set right today.
It’s a bitter pill, but it is the only way out now.
Otherwise the Somali people will have to go through a minimum of another 10 years of war and all the suffering that entails.
Ask yourself Meiji how you can overlook the TFG and the past crimes that still need to be addressed, crimes that can destroy the foundations of the Somali nation, while you are concerned with criminals who got their deserved justice.
Also you are very quiet about Ethiopia’s bullying of Somalis and AMISOMS indiscriminate shelling of civilians in Mogadishu.
Are you turning a deliberate blind eye to that, while highlighting the issue of criminals who got their justice?
Let’s deal with the major issues and not get distracted by insignificant details.
The major issues are:
1. The sovereignty and independence our nation.
2. The unity of our country.
3. Total and brutal eradication of clan system.
4. Justice for all and the return of the rule of law.
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Originally posted by Adam-Zayla:I saw Michael Jackson 5 minutes ago, he was joyriding with Elvis and James BrownDon't believe the hype, the guy is still alive.I was waiting for this. I have been looking for Michael Jackson conspiracy theories all day.
I wonder whether he will become as big as Elvis in death.
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^Don't buy into the lie, Somalis were always free and will remain so.
Allot of men died for that freedom through the ages. We should remmember them and be grateful.
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Meiji,
You presented the argument already all we need to do is linking the dots and seeing the big picture.
As you said Al-Shabab and before that the ICU came from Mogadishu. It is the situation in Mogadishu that called for radical change.
For 18 years warlords and clannist parasites have been subjecting the people of Mogadishu to killing, raping and looting. They first came in the form of the USC and made all the productive people of Somalia refugees in order to gain hegemony. Then they turned on each other and destroyed the city.
Then they split the people of the city in to sub clans, then sub-sub clans, then sub-sub-sub clans while doing the bidding for foreign actors among whom Ethiopia was one of the major evil-doers.
The people of the city prayed and hoped for a better day. But things didn’t change; day after day they were humiliated at check-points by warlord militias. The people who had no clan protection jareer and jileec alike were robbed, exhorted, their properties became xalaal and they had to live in sub-human conditions.
The situation became Fight or Flee.
Those that could leave left, in Red Sea their corpses float, in the Sahara desert their unburied bodies lay.
Those young men that could not flee fought back.
What we can see from the evolution of these groups is that they are a response to the environment in Somalia.
Calling them parasites is erroneous, if we use your medical terminology we can say that they are the body’s immune system fighting back.
The reality on the ground tells a different story than the PR-stunts and war retorics of the extremists:Their retorics:- We bring Justtice- We safeguard the weak and innocent- We fight foreign invaders: Ethiopia and AMISOMOn issue 1 and 2, well this trial proves that, they are bringing justice. You can disagree with their form of justice, but justice it is nonetheless.
On issue 3, they are fighting Amisom and Ethiopia, you can not deny that.
My question for you is, if these guys are only interested in PR. Then…
• Who else is bringing Justice to Somalia?
• Who else is claiming that they are protecting the innocent?
• Who else is Fighting the invaders of our soil…. AMISOM and Ethiopia?
• Who else is fighting the treasonous TFG that is selling our seas?
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Originally posted by Hunguri:
since when, did they name Michel Jackson as MJ. Anigu MJ si kale ayaan u aqaan
Michael Jordan?
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Dear Disgusted and Finger pointing crowds,
The only reason these A-Shabab guys are doing what they are doing is because folks like you decided to abandon your houses and left the weakest in our society to fend for themselves.
1. You fled, while they stayed.
2. You wavered, while they fought and keep fighting the enemies of our nation.
3. You supported clans over justice, while they protected the weakest in our society.
These mad wadaado are positioning them so well that those that point fingers at them are becoming hypocrites.
If you disagree with these radicals then come with alternatives and address the following issues.
1. Somalia’s sovereignty
2. Somalia’s unity
3. Total and brutal eradication of clan system
4. Justice for all
These mad men have a complete program and they are willing to execute their program. Who else has a complete program for Somalia? Excluding Ethiopia’s malevolent program.
Bleeding hearts and sob stories will not change the situation, there are real issues at stake here and those mad wadaado are dealing with them without wavering.
I am by no means a supporter of those guys, but I see where their strength lies and disagreeing with them on certain issues will only make us all hypocrites.
There are general problems we need to face as a society. Let’s deal with these problems and let’s leave the cheap and ineffectual propaganda for what it is.
Finally
If you care for Somalia and you hate these imbeciles then double, even triple your efforts and compete with them for helping the population. Defend your country more effectively then these imbeciles are doing today.
The only way you can safe Somalia from these guys is by dealing with the real questions that our nation faces today. Not by finger pointing and collaborating with the Xabash.
MMA,
Saaxiib don’t mistake war tactics for ideology. Let’s stop being emotional and look at the situation objectively. Your wadaninimo should tell you that our nation is more important then factional politics.
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I am speaking as a citizen that is tired of criminals getting away with their crimes. When criminals realize there is a price they will have to pay for their crimes, the safer normal normal people will be.
You can talk the talk, but if your family was in Muqdisho today, you would be speaking with a different tone.
The mobb is pleased and criminals are deterred, end of story.
The rest is hot air.
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Ngonge,
No need to stretch the topic. We are dealing with crimes that took place, no one is looking into hypotehtical future crimes here.
Meiji,
As for crime itself, there should be zero-tolerance but this does not mean that political pretenders will excute their propaganda and extremist agenda under the cover of ''combatting crime''.Who should stop the criminals then? Should we send in the TFG? Maybe you are on to something here.....we all familiar with the saying Tuug, tuug baa loo diraa.
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Come on Meiji you can do better then that.
You are trying to discredit those guys by using their PR, haven't you heard of the saying there is no such thing as bad publicity?
The situation is Somalia is what it is. Unfortunately our people have no access to Swedish courts or Dutch Police.
The Somali people should do what they have to do to stop criminals from stealing their bread.
In Somalia today if you loose your bread, you are condemned to death.
Those guys stole other people’s property and condemned them to death.
It is easy to say that in Norway they are so humane. But let’s look at the situation in Somalia for what it is.
It is far from perfect and there is allot of room for improvement, but we are on the right way.
There should be zero tolerance for crime.
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Originally posted by Juje:How did you come to the conclusion that these young even robbedJuje,
We are using the same information to come to two different conclusions.
Dhalinyaradaan 4-ta ah oo isbuucaan guduhiisa qirtay in ay geysteen fal burcadnimo ah ayaa mid kasta oo ka mid ah waxaa laga jaray lug iyo gacan is dhaaf ah.You condemn the trial and I assume your saying no crime took place, without giving additional information on how you came to that conclusion.
If you doubt that a crime took place, then you are also doubting the authenticity of the information that we are using and by that you undermine your claim that no crime took place.
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Originally posted by Meiji:First what kind of information do we have?All we know is that they were engaged in robbery.The information we have as you pointed out is that they were engaged in robbery and that is a criminal offence.
What about the method of trial? Obscure, secretive trial and sentence by handpicked men/judges of Alshabab?Also you pointed out there was a trial. We can discuss the fairness of the trial, but why don’t you be fair to the people that were robbed by those criminals? Remmeber the criminals didn't even give a trial.
Wouldn’t these criminals have gotten away with it if they weren’t stopped?
I do not see what is wrong in this situation other then that you disagree with those that are bringing justice to those that need it the most.
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Meiji,
First of all welcome to the 1000 post range
Secondly what do you say to the people that those criminals robbed?
What about those that the criminals killed? Do they not deserve justice?
Law has returned to the land, the days of anarchy will hopefully be behind us soon and we should welcome the development that no one can get away with crimes.
The situation is not ideal, but it is better then letting criminals get away with their crimes.
Prevention is better then cures.
Thirdly don't fall in the trap of labelling actors in the Somali war, using tags such as extremist, moderate.....etc. It will only cloud your vision and make it harder to understand the situation on the ground. Those tags are also not helpfull since foreign actors created them to divide the Somali people.
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Many valid objections have been raised and they are worth a reply.
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First of all let us understand that the conflict in Somalia is complex. There are many wars going on at the same time.
If we take a closer look we will see that there are the following wars going on.
1. The Somali civil war that has pitted clans and other political actors against each other. Let’s call this the Clan war.
2. The regional war between those fighting for the Somali national interest and regional forces that are fighting for their own national interest. Let’s call this one the Regional war.
3. There is the global war that has pitted the Radical Islamists of this world and the powers that be. Let’s call this one the Global war.
4. There are also economic interests involved, whether they are local, regional or global. From local business people trying to monopolize certain economic assets to energy resource firms looking for hot deals. Let’s call this one the Business war.
The situation is too complex for most of us to understand and grasp what is actually happening at any given moment. It is also fluid and the actors keep repositioning themselves. Alliances are temporary and ideologies are almost non-existent. Even the Islamist ideology in Somalia can be called superficial. The ‘policies’ they implement in the regions under their control betray their lack of vision.
This situation due to its many variables has forced many people to be a bit schizophrenic when it comes to supporting political factions. If we look at Hannibal up there, in the Clan war he supports Somaliland, in the Regional war he supports the Somali interest and in the Global war who knows. The contradiction is obvious to most of us (Somaliland is an Ethiopian proxy) yet this seemingly intelligent young man chooses to ignore this fact. I wonder how many people rhyme their conflicting interests or rather ignore them.
We can understand his situation; the whole Somali nation is in that same position. His identity as a man from a certain clan, born into the Somali nation, who is of the Muslim faith and from a certain socio-economic background forces him to make rather strange choices.
The lack of consistency and flip flopping back and forth is the reason why the war in Somalia has lasted so long.
The reason why the Shabab / Xiz Islam seem to be winning at the moment is because they are using time tested methods of warfare and more importantly they have found a way to rhyme the conflict of identity that is to be found within every Somali.
For example the supporters of Somaliland have focused only on one war of the first three wars I have mentioned above, namely the Clan war. They have played this war rather well; the existence of the secessionist administration after 18 years proves this point. However they have lost the Regional war by becoming an Ethiopian vassal. We can say the same for the Puntlanders, they have played the Clan war well only because they too have accepted the status of an Ethiopian vassal. These two administrations have overcome the first obstacle only to be defeated on the second obstacle, thus becoming disqualified in the long run.
Shabab / Xiz Islam have linked the first three wars. They choose not to part take in the Clan war and decided to transcend it. In the Regional war they maneuvered themselves into the position of being the sole champion of the Somali National interest. They have also been foolishly drawn to part take in the Global war.
Those who wish to counter Xiz Islam and Shabab need to learn how to walk the tight rope that is Somali politics and need to offer a coherent and a consistent vision to get Somalia out of its current predicament while transcending clan and without ignoring Somalia’s national interest and rights as a sovereign nation.
Sharif Ahmed has proven that he does not understand the dynamics of the Somali conflict and the way to reconcile the conflicting identities that are present in most Somalis today.
This is why he should resign instead of also capitulating and making the Somali government an Ethiopian puppet.
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Oodweyne,
My argument is simple. Our nation is at crossroads. We are in a critical phase.
The actions that Sharif Ahmed takes at this moment can either prolong or shorten this war.
The Somali people have been maneuvered into the undesirable situation where a choice have to be made. Before the choice was between Sharif's TFG and the Xiz Islam / Shabab coalition.
Many valid arguments could have been made by both sides, the Xiin's and Kashafa's of Somalia both brought sensible arguments that were worth examining.
But the situation on the ground has changed. Different variables have entered the equation.
The choice is no longer between Sharif's TFG and the Xiz Islam / Shabab coalition.
The choice is between living under a Somali government by the Xiz Islam / Shabab coalition. or to live under occupation by our neighboring countries.
We now face the nightmare scenario of:
1. Long term occupation and division of Somalia by both Ethiopia and Kenya.
2. Long and brutal civil war.
Let us not entertain the foolish idea that Sharif's TFG will have any relevance once Ethiopia and Kenya invade Somalia. They will then directly control him and his paper administration and dictate the course of action.
Sharif's TFG will not benefit from any invasion by Ethiopia and Kenya.
Sharif’s TFG will be the first casualty of any invasion.
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Originally posted by Najmudin:Sharif must fight back!He can't fight back, that's the point. He has lost.
The question is should he sign the papers for an invasion of his country by foreign forces that will divide it up? Or should he resign.
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Xukuumadda KMG oo galabta qaadatay go'aan dalka lagu saarayo Xaalad deg deg ah iyo baaq ay u direyso beesha Caalamka.Posted: 6/20/2009 10:43:00 PMShabelle: MUQDISHOkadib Shir deg deg ah wasiirada Xukuumadda dowladda KMG Soomaaliya ay ku yeesheen galabta magaalada Muqdisho oo looga hadlay xaaladda uu marayo dalka Soomaaliya ayaa waxaa ay qaateen go’aano dhowr ah oo ay ka mid tahay in dalka la galiyo Xaalad deg deg ah.Wasiirka warfaafinta dowladda KMG Soomaaliya oo kulankaasi kadib saxaafadda u qariyay go’aamada maanta ay isku raaceen Golaha wasiirada dowladda KMG Soomaaliya ayaa sheegay ingo’aankani oo bilaabanayo Marka uu madaxweynaha dowladda KMG Soomaaliya soo saxiixo.Waxaa uu sheegay in golaha wasiirada ay ka codsadeen Beesha Caalamka oo ay ugu harayso Qaramada midoobay,IGAD,Midowg a Africa,Jaamacadda Carabta,Ururka Islaamka,Wadamada reer Galbeedka ah sida wadamada Maraykanka iyo Wadamada reer Yurub intaba in ay si deg deh ah u bad baadiyaan jiritaanka dowladda KMG Soomaaliya.Wasiirada Dowladda KMG Soomaaliya ayaa Waxaa ay dhamaan Ururadaasi iyo wadamadaasi ka dalbadeen in ay ka difaacaan kooxo ay ku sheegeen argagixiso doonaysa in ay bur bursiso Jiritaanka dowladda KMG Soomaaliya.Go’aamkani ayaa imaanay xili maanta mudanayaasha Barlamanka KMG Soomaaliya kulan ay ku yeesheen magaalada Muqdisho ay ku ansixiyeen in ciidamo ka socda Caalamka si deg deg ah loo keeno Soomaaliya si ay u difaacaan dowladda oo haatan Awoodeedu ay sii wiiqmayso.==================== ==================== ==================== ==
Sharif don't sign away our country! Step down and take the honorable way out.
Sharif be remembered as a Somali hero not the worst traitor in our nations history.
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Should Sharif Ahmed take the honorable exit or should he invite our enemies and bring more misery and destruction to our nation.
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Honorable Exit
The situation of the TFG is deteriorating quickly. The news coming from Mogadishu is that there is a mass exodus going on of the remaining TFG politicians. There are also rumors that those critical members of the TFG that are now outside the country are delaying their return.
At this moment the only obstacle in the way of a total takeover of the city are the AMISOM troops. AMISOM does not have the capacity or the stomach for a city wide rollback of the opposition forces. The question we should ask ourselves is, once the remaining TFG forces have been neutralized, how long can AMISOM hold out?
This is a question that is certainly on Sharif Ahmed’s mind. He too can see the options that he has left. Let’s look at three scenarios of how this situation can play out and how these might influence Sharif Ahmed’s decisions.
Scenario 1
• Ethiopia, Kenya and their warlords invade Somalia to begin a country wide rollback of the opposition forces.
• The invading armies cannot hold on to Somali territories. Since this will inflame Somali passions and invite a long and brutal war that can be costly to them.
• Furthermore if Ethiopia and Kenya come into Somalia to prop up Sharif’s paper-administration , it will actually make his position irrelevant.
Scenario 2
• Neighboring countries give limited support to their warlords
• Deal directly and separately with the warlords, by pass Sharif’s TFG and thus making his paper government insignificant.
• The support of the warlords by the foreign meddlers will not turn the tide. It is too late for that.
Scenario 3
• The Immediate resignation of Sharif Ahmed as the president of Somalia.
• The disbandment of the TFG
• Entering unconditional talks with the opposition
• Creating a care-taker government that can facilitate the transfer of ‘power and sovereignty’.
• Building a legitimate Somali government, by the Somali people.
Scenario 3 is the most honorable and sensible scenario. Somalia has now had several paper administrations that were created by foreign meddlers. The most disastrous of these were TFG part 1 and TFG part 2. These two administrations were designed, created, funded and lead behind the scenes by foreign actors.
Sharif Ahmed has today the unique opportunity to transfer the sovereignty of the Somali state directly and without interference to a legitimate Somali political movement.
This is the greatest gift that Sharif Ahmed can give to the Somali people as June 26 approaches.
This is the honorable way out.
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Originally posted by General Duke:Bakara Market, a notorious marketplace where Islamist insurgents wield power.Source: Garowe OnlineInteresting opinion Garowe online got there.
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The mood today is:
[Verse One: AZ the Visualiza]
Visualizin the realism of life and actuality
**** who's the baddest a person's status depends on salary
And my mentality is, money orientated
I'm destined to live the dream for all my peeps who never made it
cause yeah, we were beginners in the hood as five percenters
But somethin must of got in us cause all of us turned to sinners
Now some, restin in peace and some are sittin in San Quentin
Others such as myself are tryin to carry on tradition
Keepin the schwepervesence street ghetto essence inside us
Cause it provides us with the proper insight to guide us
Even though, we know somehow we all gotta go
but as long as we leavin thievin we'll be leavin with some kind of dough
so, and to that day we expire and turn to vapors
me and my capers-ll be somewhere stackin plenty papers
Keepin it real, packin steel, gettin high
Cause life's a ***** and then you die
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I didnt know that the Axis of Evil had a democratic member.
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Al-Shabab does not like Waagacusub.com as this website often displays news reports that give unpleasant to the militants like very secretive audio clips and confidential documents and their violations against the civilians.JB ma adaa af ingriisigaaga meesha ku tijaabinayay?
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Labada gudoomiy ee guurtidda iyo baarlamaanka Somaliland oo manta dhagax dhigay musaajid laga dhisay
Warkii 16-Jun-2009 iyo Qormadii: sugulle
Waxaa manta si wada jira u dhagax dhigay musaajid laga dhisay xarunta labada golle ee guurtida iyo baarlamaanka somaaliland labadda gudoomiye ee saleebaan maxamuud aadan iyo c/raxaam maxamed c/laahi (c/raxmaan cirro).
Labada gudoomiye oo ka hadalay dhagax dhiga musaajidka ayaa labaduba tilmaamay inuu ahaa wax aad loogu baahnaa dhismaha musaajidkani ,xaruntuna ay aad ugu baahnay dhismaha muusajidkan , aadna aanu u soo dhawaynayno .
Isku duubni waxay ugu mahad celiyeen maamulka haya,ada safalka islaamigaee wadaniga ah ee alhuda oo iyagu u hawl galay dhismaha musaajidka iyo siduu u dhismi lahaa , waxay kaloo u duceeyeen cidkastoo ka qaybqaadatay dhismaha musaajidka iyo abaabulkiisaba .
Waxaa kaloo isna dhagax dhiga musaajidka ka hadlay gudoomiyaha haya,ada islaamiga alhuda cabdale abiib xuseen waxaana uu ka war bixiyay dadaalka ay u galeen dhismaha musaajidka ,isagoo sheegay inay qarashka dhismaha musaajidka ay ka soo qaadeen dad muxsiniina oo reer qadara , dhismaha musaajidkuna uu si rasmiya bari u bilaami doono kuna dhamaan doono mudo bila hadii alle idmo
Sugulle
Afnugaal.com
Hargaysa
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My money is on the West Indies. But I will switch sides to the Netherlands if they get past Pakistan.
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Originally posted by Fabregas:I bet you don't watch cricket. ha ha. marka araktey Holland won on the news, you acting like a cricket fan.Seriously, there has been a lot fuss about this 20-20 cricket. is it any good. I mean, better than the real cricket, the most boring sport in the world.Farbregas you are absolutely right I do not watch cricket.
The other night while changing channels I saw some guys dressed in bright Orange playing cricket...so I thought lets see how these oranges get squashed......well to my suprise it was the Oranges that did the squashing. And it was an exciting game and no one could have predicted that outcome.
Oooh how sweet that victory was.
20-20 Cricket is the only way to make that boring sport watchable.
My god what has TV turned me into......First Tennis, then Tour de France, then Hockey now Cricket?
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Why we are not orienting social change thoughts?
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b. try to mutate in order to adapt to the technology we have