Originally posted by Socod_badne: And HOW do we determine that? How does one falsify your contention? "Liberated" is an idea, not a tangible. It's like passing aesthetic judgement on Monet's paintings over Picasso's. WHo decides? You? Some other art critic/admirer? Saying women are more liberated in muslim countries is meangingless uttering. Exercise in futility with no redeeming epistemic payoff. Easy really: Compare and Contrast the two systems and which system are human beings better off. This is simple idea, no need to complicate it man “no redeeming epistemic payoff” kulaha....simplicity is the best way to discuss issues. I don't think the West is morally superior for morality is not something we can weight and get decisive answer. More importantly, morality is relative. Who decides which morals are superior and which aren't? One can only pass proximate valued judgement based on many things (familiarit for example or reason or results etc). Someone else will disagree for equally good reasons. You know why? Moral superiority is an illusion, it doesn't exist in the real world. It's a question, by the way, that has been raging for more than 2000 years with no sight of denouement. So really, why bother? I disagree. we don’t need a decisive answer, there would always be those who disagree however this doesn’t mean u cant compare and contrast two different systems and review which system is for the good of mankind. But I think u right why bother.

yo SB and u are the objective and unbiased one right? The person who is always against Islam and its traditions. Yes women are more liberted and i repeat liberted i know that is a shock to u OMG :eek: say what.... in Muslim lands then in the west. Go here: http://www.somaliaonline.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=007091;p=6 and answer those questions: Show us how the west is morally superior to the Muslims.

Originally posted by Xoogsade: I realize one thing, if you related to a warlord, even islam in your heart won't help you see the light. Qabiilka waa sixir. walaahi ninyahow may Allah forgive u....it is haraam to be suspious of on another u dont know me sxb then u accusse of qabilnimo (i didnt even know walaahi what TFG, C/Y, or ICU were before SOL....u are speaking about dude who just learned his abtitrsii last year) qabilnimo there is nothing wrong with knowing your ppl and loving ur ppl this is what Islam teaches us. But in this case u are accusing me of not being for haaq and denying justice that is great charge man but ALlah knows who I am, and I would swear walaa that I have no hate in me for anyone. I dont support secular leaders, I stand for Islam. but lately I have realising the truth dats all man.

^^^Ok what are u going for? Split personality? When u say something bad u will respnd: "hey yall look i told u i was half "devil" marka dont blame me. I see how it can work tho.....u wont always say the "right thing" and when u say something different ppl atomatically label hypcrite or somthin. but no I wont refer to u as a devil....your good person u remind of my little sister...especially with diana comment in politcs section loooooool dats what she would say. peace out!

Edited: Thanks brother Red my immaturity kicks in sometimes

Originally posted by me: Khalaf where is the Jihad then? You are sleeping my friend, Jihad is in Somalia. The Jihad is for Somalinimo and Islamnimo combined. If you only truelly opened your eyes. The Saudi's that have sponsored your thinking are sipping their 'casiir' while our people suffer. Fukk the A-rabs may they suffer forever like we have suffered. No one is our friend here, its just the 20 million of us. To hell with this world,if we can't have it no one will, where is that red button? [/QB] waraa man um sick and tired walaahi somalis blaming the arabs for dis and dat. This mess was created by none other then us. We have killed each other, we have burned and destroyed our country. And still to this day somalis still mistrust each other and will aid their enemy to fight their brother. I dont know the somalinimo u speak of ninyahow....like pac said its my own kind doing all the killing here. I believe in Islamnimo can unite us. gathering info (yes i say I heard there are lot of Dukes around ) this is about politics and clan power their arguments are strong. Sorry ninyahow somali is small piece to me, I know the ummahs denisty lies in sham, and thats the difference between yall and me: Bosnia/Iraq/Afganistan is the same to me as Somalia, we the muslims are one nation its the colonizers who drew these borders. U will be let down my brother if u believe in somalinimo, we are africans afterall joke

Devil means satan whom Allah has cursed, i dont understand why u would accociate yourself to the devil, but i wont use that term when addressing u. Second I have said problems exist, and arabia is by no means an utopia and that is because the lack of Islam and inshallah that will change. And what is happening is fitnah described in the hadiths. Whats problematic is your generalisation of all arabs, just because u had bad experience with certain section of arab society dont judge the whole culture and ppl: they are very good ppl-the government is differnt. Somalis are so called breathern but they have killed each other nooh thats why most of us are here right? Why not condem them?

Originally posted by me: Khalaf you and many others overhere. Have many shirts and many hats. You switch like a faggot, pardon my afxumo. I have one shirt, its blue, wuuna igu gaboobay, shaadh kalena hadii aan soo iibsado buluug buu ahaanayaa. I am well know with ina laba pac iyo gabayadiisa. As you might know Only God Can Judge me now is one of my favorites. Anyhow just be thankful that Somalinimo iyo surwaal gaabnimo maanta inay isku meel ka soo wada jeedaan. Cadawga guud aan maanta iska wada celino, teena maalin kale ayaan ka wada shiri doonaaye. ^^^yeah sxb dont ask me for pardon i am human being i cant grant u dat....when someone calls u name u knock um out but that aint possible thus ask Allah my brave brother. No one is switching sxb I have always said Allah knows best, and slowly i am realizing the truth dat its all about politics and power....u believe in somalinimo, I believe in Islamnimo and I know where that true jihad is waging, it aint in somalia. Talk is cheap ninyahow, playing touch infront of computer scream is what sissys do....as my ayeeyo always said nin raag ah doesnt talk but takes action in what he believes....go ahead playa seek your destney spare me your empty slogans.

Allahu Akbar! Good news! Angle: i used to be like u not long ago, naive believe everything i read and hear on the news, damn arabs, racist arabs, ect. I went to arabia and seen with my own eyes the respect and honor the women get (i know bad cases exist) and how good the arabs are (gov is diff)....but my sister dont believe the bullshit of western news, the internet even worse!

Originally posted by me: quote:Originally posted by Che-Guevara: So, when are you going there? Home dat's. Alle-Ubaahne ha isku haleen. Afkalay ka nool yahay. Cid laysku haleenayo ma jirto. Nin walbaa wa in uu tiisa isku haleeyo. Inshalah mar dhow ayaa la wada noqonayaa. Hada waa la diyaar garoobayaa. waana la eegayaa meeshii sheekada lagala qabsan lahaa. yo Me let me get out old skool: Perhaps I was blind to the facts, stabbed in the back I couldn't trust my own homies just a bunch a dirty rats Will I, succeed, paranoid from the weed(somalinimo ) And hocus pocus try to focus but I can't see And in my mind I'ma blind man doin time Look to my future cause my past, is all behind me Is it a crime, to fight, for what is mine? Everybody's dyin tell me what's the use of tryin I've been Trapped since birth, cautious, cause I'm cursed And fantasies of my family, and it hurts And they say it's the white man(ethiopia) I should fear But, it's my own kind doin all the killin here I can't lie, ain't no love for the other side......but yeah its my own kind doing all the killing here. May Allah Award the mumineen with jannah!! Amiin

Originally posted by duuliye: Blogs broke the story that has scandalised Egyptians (Picture: misrdigital.com) Blogs are the primary source? And the pictures I saw no evidence of women being attacked. Not saying it didnt happen or doesnt happen, just skeptical about this.

Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar: Ninkaan ayaa ifka "wadaadnimo" noo sheeganaayo marka. Ifka waxa ugu xun qabiilist wadaad in uu noqdo iska dhigo. Whats qabiilist horta? I am no wadaad I am simple Muslim, but I have never hated, denied justice, ect to any human let alone my own ppl.... marka adeer take your sheeko somewhere else....my beliefs and actions speak for dem themselves. Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar: Adi maa u diiday reer Dhoobleey/Badhaadhe/Afmadoow/Libooye/Baardheere markaa leedahay ma deggaan Soomaaliya? Ma adaa ka qaatay dhulkooda? What? :confused: Somali is difficult for me. Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar: And your "turub la barey" aad ula jeedid dadka Xamar dego [supposedly you consider them to be badoow when it comes to siyaasad], well I have a news for you: Turub waliba kan dabakaeriska iyo iskaalaha ayee waa hore ciyaari jireen markaa adiga shaaniska ciyaari jirtay meeshaas ka timidba waxee tahay ahaatee. Adeer Somali waan isla nahay marka don’t play political correctness with me ninyahow.....be real u have heard that term many times...which I just learned lool. Somali wa isla kaftan ta all da time or has too much time on the internet forums made u lose sight of reality? don’t read too much into adeer breath its aight u don’t have to prove anything to anyone that u can play turub. Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar: And advocating xaaraan of your "dem galguud boys know how to bust..." supposedly of others land, waaba isla qumantahay, oo magac Eebbe kuu suran. No I would never adovcate for haraam dont get it twisted, but justice as the Nabi scw practiced. u are reading too much into words (stop being too emotional ninyahow)..... All I was saying is reer cabuwaak proven from their history defend themselves against aggression and survive in hardship. Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar: At least waa qiratay inay ka imaadeen Galgaduud. That is one step forward. But also known they will get back to Galgaduud, sooner already, "busted" or not. What :confused: Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar: Adiga camal ayaa diinta wax u dhimo, mana dhaantid surwaalgaabka Xamar joogo maanta oo aad isleedahay dacaayadee. :confused: But adeer trust I am Muslim and my brothers are the Muslims my views/beliefs have always been clear....marka be cool.

Originally posted by Allamagan: Khalafoow abtgis you right, this picture is sending out a clear message to UICs to be on reflective silence in the wake of Buaale massacre and afterall UICs' activities in Jubooyinka. As to ppl of Cabduwaaq or Ballanbale (the two main towns left for these nomads after these massive displacements) I say I must acknowledge the truth of your argumemnt. you right, ciddaasi is very religious and simple nomads with great hospitality. They share all these sentiments with other nomads in that region, tho. However, by vulnerablity I mean that they live in kinda 'enclave' and not that self-sufficient the other thing is the displacement activities that going on there. Abti waa la is barakicinayaa. So for them to survive there they need some sort of quick return of working central government haddii kale biyo kaa badani waa ku harqiyaan First ilaahay ha u naxariistro those who died in Buaale jails. ive been thinking ninyahow.....this incident and the recent defect with weapons of one of the members of the TFG to his clansmen in xamaar, calling for unnecessary aggression on puntland .....dat wa naloo tashada abti! Turub la barey! Abtgis: if this does turn to be about clan most vulnerable is my reer abti. Puntland got its territory/resources and its ppl independent same w/ somalilad, the OGs don’t live in Somalia, you know who dat leaves. Enclaved or not, dem galguud boys know how to bust.....will never be weak or bow down..... just when the ppl wonder how they can survive ilaahay ba faraj u furo.

Originally posted by Allamagan: ^^^ Duuliye, yes they are! but what did they get in return? fussilade of .... quote: Originally posted by HornAfrique: No, it won't. It would have been a problem for Caabudwaaq in Galgaduud which is in a more vulnerable position. Hornoow, Reer Caabudwaaq will be the last to support this UICs. Ragaan waa rag reer mudug ah adeer, yes they are more vulnerable yet with their stronger anti-uic stance, they dare to speak up the truth even if it hurts. This image should not send out the wrong message abti nor does it represent the ppl of cabudwaq...a very religious, simple nomads, and fiercly independent ppl...as my ayeeyo said the lions of reer How are they "vulnerable"? :confused:

Originally posted by Mr. Red Sea: I don't think,it meant to be interpeted like that brother,however, Siyad Barre and Abdullahi Yusuf have something in common,which is to rule with Iron fist and that more than anything was probably what was meant for that statement to state. FACT:Col.Sh.Turki isnt the only one from that Qabiil,there are alot more my dear brother and I want you to find that out as a homework. lool@ homework. My brother Red I don’t know much about Somali politics to be real(hence I say i heard).... but what I do know bro is from lessons in history class and about Islamic movements.(Why are they unsuccessful?) The support for the courts: 1.ICU have brought law and order-stability to Xamar one of the most dangerous cities in the world, and got rid of ruthless warlords. 2.ICU leaderships is one clan mainly because the south is a majority clan, but the courts are represented by all clans 3.Once the ICU advances to different regions: power-sharing will eventually change. 4.ICU want to rule with Islamic Law throughout the country. 5.Give the ICU time. 6.Those are the main arguments I believe. Questions/Concerns about the ICU: 1.ICU have brought law and order to Xamar ppls: but because the alternative (the warlords) were bad does this make the ICU fit rulers and establishing a running government with jobs, economy, ect? What/How do they envision to rule the country- a country with many clans and divisions who not all support their ideology? Is it gonna be my way or the high way through force as it has been thus far evident in Kismayo and the threats against peaceful regions such as Pland & SLand? ( Yes wadaado in those regions may set up their own courts-but what about the rest of the ppl who don’t follow the ideology yet are your clansman-do you through force take over or convince them with dialogue that this is the road to take,(as the practice of nabi scw)? 2.About the leadership and the government (if the ICU does become a government): Will there be elections? Will the ppl be able choose their government representives? Will there be women in the parliament? (We know what Islam says but what is the manifesto of the courts?) 3.We give them time inshallah, but thus far they are not smart, they got too many enemies (TFG being the least one) and instead of playing smart politics (dialogue, being low key, signing treaties, peace deals, strengthen the populace support) they are calling for jihad. Before one does external jihad their should be internal jihad following the footsteps of the Nabi scw in Medina. In anyway we look at it- true we want an Islamic state in the Horn but that will be very unlikely, the best will get is either a Islamic dictatorship which is contrary to Islam or government like Afghanistan with a puppet president. The world is a global village these days and since the major players in this game is the US the TFG will have the upper hand! Mos def as a Muslim I would say the Will of Allah will prevail, xaaq over falsehood.....but that will be through al-sham, until then we the entire Ummah will not see any revolutionary changes....business as usual-corruption and cheating of the masses.

Originally posted by Hayam: You have to see the bigger picture brother. Isn't this exactly why narrowminded muslims voted for Bush in 2000 and not Al Gore..cause the earlier was against Gay rights...huge mistake eh... No fadlan sister you see the bigger picture. It is not a mistake, because the "narrowminded Muslims" believe in Allah Most High and that whatever happens is by the Will of Allah, regardless of how they voted it was the plan of Allah that Bush “won” Originally posted by Hayam: And narrowminded muslims in Toronto refuse to support Jack Layton. Thankgod we have the option of the Liberals someone in the middle (in some ways...) Is this the Jack Layton you are talking about the “narrowminded Muslims” don’t want to support? And I quote part of his speech: “Michael Lynch, a driving force behind this country's first AIDS organization, dedicated his life to making the lives of others more liveable. He was denied our blessing of his relationship. He never got to marry Bill, his partner of longstanding, because he died in 1991, 10 years before this country's first gay and lesbian marriages. I was at those weddings. I was at the weddings of Anne and Elaine, and Kevin and Joe. They were held at the Metropolitan Community Church in my riding and were presided over by the incredible Reverend Brent Hawkes. Olivia and I attend midnight mass at the church every Christmas Eve. I urge people who believe that lesbian and gay relationships are somehow less deserving to go there and they will see love, community, faith, and extended families celebrating those core human desires with others irrespective of sexual orientation. It is the same feeling that we have during gay pride celebrations, which are held now in communities of all sizes, from Iqaluit to Sudbury, from Halifax to Vancouver, in English and in French. I was at the first gay pride celebration more than 20 years ago, which in Canada was held in my riding. As at all cultural festivals, we celebrated our diversity and vigorously debated this basic Canadian value of equality.” source ^^^Min fadlik my sister tell me if you do support him who is clearly against the Quran and Sunnah who is clearly supporting a great a great evil how you aint endorsing their values? :confused: If you don’t hate and denounce this sin and its advocators at least in your heart then doesn’t that make you as the ayat says: “certainly in that case you would be like them.”? May Allah Guide US....if some of us so called Muslims are voting for homosexual advocates!

Originally posted by LayZieGirl: The saint replieD: I am not saint horta, I am a Muslim go learn what that means. I was bored and surfing the net. Surfing illicit materials is called being bored and surfing the net nowadays huh? Ahh spin doctor... u should give foxnews a call, they need ppl like you who like to twist the truth and quote out of context. I don’t need to explain myself, because Allah is my judge, but how I came across that website is the same way I came across this one (SOL), searching about Somali stuff. And I can search if I wanted haram and do all the haram I want my sister it is indeed easy for me, but I don’t and never will inshallah, because Allah is watching me and Him I fear and is my return...thats what a Muslim means not a saint.... Ya get it? Che wrote: P.S wouldn't nacalat be on those who view ( and you did view them) the half-naked pics of women. Che, enough said, you just closed this subject for me. The saint sure loves pointing fingers but the moment the finger is pointed at him he says khalas! Pointing the finger at me...how? I am not the guilty one here, I am speaking the truth. What are u actually defending and getting mad about? What are you those girls or somthin? IF not then why does it bother you so much huh...its my opinion move on. i]Zafir, I didn't know he was a pimp until u brought it to my attention, I guess thats how he got the inside scoop on these "dirty", "nasty" individuals he speaks off... [/i] ^^^^I aint no pimp,: A pimp finds and manages clients for a prostitute and engages them in prostitution, illaahay ka cabso....if u dont like my views read something else its just that easy.

^^^^we used to watch that as little kids....it was scary back then tho. Last "scary movie" i checked out was the omen....cool movie. I will most def check out SAW3 its sick.

Red according them yes qabilist, it meant why would we want another (insert qabil) as our ruler? And why is there unequal powersharing especially in the leadership...except for Turki? Dont we all rely on what we "heard" or were "told"? How many of us really know the intentions? People have right to question and be skeptical sxb. Me- all I have been saying is Allah Knows best.

But on the real tho can you blame those who are skeptics about this? There is no doubt good ppl in the courts who want Islam, but there are also qabyalst peeps in the courts also. I heard one of the leaders in the courts said: why would they want President Yusuf when they got rid of Sayyid Barre (allahu naxristro)Allah Knows best. I dont get why the leadership is still one qabiil? The unequal powersharing is what makes ppl skeptical.

Originally posted by Che-Guevara: Khalaf....Horta what were you doing at Somaligate. Waa nuursate markaas nac nac noola imaaneey. Naga qalee dee duqa I was bored and surfing the net. You got twisted mind “waa nuursate” kulaha. I aint no saqjaan man, I don’t look at haram or do haraam...... I grew up in the west and am not a stranger to seeing cheap&wild females the fact they are “Somali” on the net or around the da block is what bothers me . We all have different opinions those are my mine about the subject khalas! P.S wouldn't nacalat be on those who view ( and you did view them) the half-naked pics of women. ^^^^Yes nacalat should be upon those who view haram and do haram. but I don’t I came across the website and didn’t view it long or “ku nuursate”.... Allah knows the intentions...and for me by Allah and that is a great oath If given the option between having the most beautiful woman to service me loool or the option of her being good Muslim for her own good I would pick option 2.....um that twisted man fo real.

^^^layzie what is your defention of a female? a prostitute is a female and is called a whore no? They deserve no respect: The Prophet Muhammad (S) stated that in later generations of his ummah there would be "women who would be dressed but naked and on top of their heads (what looks like) camel humps. Curse them for they are truly cursed." (Muslim) Be cool sister. Nacalat is on them who behave like the unbelievers, not the Muslims who condem their actions.

Originally posted by LayZieGirl: Since when do you moderators let the words "whore, hoes, porn star" slide in this forum?? Why isn't this sorry excuse of a human being called khalaf being deleted? I bet on anything you will be deleting this post the moment its posted, but someone ought to wipe some bleach with his nasty a*s mouth... [/i] [/QB] No sister Layzie they should not delete you, you have right to voice your opinion however u see it. And no one has right to call me an a$$ wipe but my baby sister!! And I am not a sorry excuse of human being, I am a Muslim and the characteristic of a Muslim is he hates unbelief and haramta. Whats sorry is that you condemn me and not those who should be condemned those who resemble the unbelievers and are unbelievers themselves (Ayan Hirsi). My language may have been wrong (and I said Allah forgive me) and sister aliyah corrected me with sharaf iyo xuushmo, a good characteristic you lack. And may Allah grant it to you, amiin.

Originally posted by SeeKer: Naden there are many things he states in his lecture that I don't know much about. It prompted me not only to those questions but to actually start looking for the book he bases most of his lecture on. I definately have to listen to the lecture again since there are some points you mentioned that must have just whizzed by me as I drove whilst listening to the lecture. JB I don't know how to answer your question but I will try to. How dare I ask rational questions with a firm belief in the end of the world? I ask because I wish to base my belief in firm knowledge. There are different sources out there on this topic and perhaps not all of them are true. There is no black and white in my view of religion. I see a lot of gray areas and this falls within the grey area. Not that it won't come but that it will occur the way people keep predicting it to happen. Ps:- whats with the A's? :confused: Good topic. End of world, jihad, prophecy, where is brother somalinimo yo me Seeker 1. What is the book? 2. What specfic questions do you have about the topic? What gray areas?

Seeker baseball is good game fun to play-I played it as kid I miss those years walaahi. About the colts: Manning gets paid to much one. And he is one player two along with my two main man harrison and freeney. but they dont have what it takes to win: defense. They will make it to AFC finals if lucky but will not take the title. Bet! They are the utah jazz of football!