^ Aight, Duke. I guess it's futile, you can't teach a old dog new tricks. I tried, but failed miserably to de-qabilitise you. Nothing personal. Juss statin' the facts. Kismayo for you and many others(including the other side) is a qabil thang. Af-Gaduud got kicked out and you go in denial. Facts, sxb.

^ Except my clan's ego. My clan's ego must protected and enhanced at all costs. At the cost of Dadka. At the cost of Dalka. Even at the cost of Deenta. Above all things, long live my clan and it's noble ego. Who do you think you're fooling with this peace-talk, duqa ? Under the facade of a family-man, lies the true face of a terminal qabilisto who would let all of Somalia, be it Mogadisho or Kismayo, burn to the ground so that Adeer Cabdullahi would get a chance, just one chance, to be called President. Let's be frank, is all I'm sayin. You want Kismayo. Period. Peace iyo wadahathal is only on the tables now because the Xabash turned you down and told you to man up and fight your own tribal fight.

Waraa Duke, Whadda deal with K-town, sxb ? I thought the TFG was a cough inclusive, above petty tribal bickering, Dawlad end-cough What happened ? Aabo Cabdullahi cried to the Xabash to help him raze to the ground another Somali city, this time the 2nd(or 3rd ?) largest, in the name of "Fall back, We runnin' this shit". Word has it that the Xabash wouldn't commit, cuz Xamar aa lagu kululaynaa (if you know what I mean). Sorry, Duke. Somethin tells me that the TFG and K-town are far far apart and that some major developments in the coming few weeks will sever any remaining influence they may have with Odoyaasha Tol-ka. So much for the vaunted national TFG army. Motto: Won't fight without Xabashi patronage and their big big gunz. They do the fighting bit, the whole blood and guts thang, we take care of the ruling part. Weird motto, but quite telling

Since the ICU have/had no awood to rule with shariah in Somalia considering today’s reality not only world but inside somalia, do u think as the saying goes they awakened the fitnah and have a fault in what went down in Somalia Umm, who told you that ? Your 'shaykh' ? Same guy whose views you used as 'daleel' to brand the Islamic Courts as 'Not-perfect-enough-therefore-I'll-remain-neutral' ? No disrespect, but it kinda all makes sense now. The above quote is wrong on so many levels, I'mma let Nur take it apart. Just for the record, The ICU had the awood and the authority to apply Sharia law and apply it they did....and guess what akh ? The people, the average everyday Faarax and Xalimo, living in Somalia......they loved it. So that 'fitnah' label ur so generously giving the ICU is really more deserving of the 'inclusive, elected by all Somalis' TFG and their guests. Sorry to break in, this is a great discussion so far. One word of advice: You know ur in trouble when Dr. Nur gets shocked

^ Preach on brudda. Show our deluded brethern how really lost they are. Bless their good intentions but they know not what they speak of. Baashi, Ngonge, Cara, and Ms DD, consider MMA's post my response and the response of the vast majority of Somalis fighting the good fight with their naf, their maal, and if nothing else their moral support(intaas manaliga helikaraa ?). Consider it the response of all those Somalis demonstrating around the world saying: F THE TFG, F THE XABASHIS. This is not the time to observe diplomatic niceties and the 'political game'. YOU. ARE. UNDER. O-C-C-U-P-A-T-I-O-N. 5 months after the Tikrays invaded the last free bastion of Somalia, it is amazing, simply incredible, to watch nomads disregard, belittle, ignore, or conviently choose to look the other way when it comes to our status as an occupied country and an occupied people. As for that magical dirin, I sincerely hope we can all sit around it, even with the accursed warlords if that'll give peace a chance. But it'll be a cold day in hell when the only inheritors of Sayyid-ka's legacy disarm and submit(<-- I hope you can grasp the gravity of this word) to Xabashi hegemony and Tikray proxy rule. You know that as well as I do, and even better weliba. Some salient points: Kismayo, no longer under TFG control. Entire degmo of Qalaafo, under Somali control. 8 to 10 Ugandan soldiers bought the farm, wasn't a good idea coming to Mogadisho as Zenawi's bailout Plan B, shit happens, sorry Tikray/TFG alliance still suffering attacks, including the leadership I guess them 'ciyaal-ka xaafada' boyz been real real active as of late, yaah ? :cool:

Originally posted by Cara: 1 million VC, anywhere from 2-5 million Vietnamese civilians and comparatively few US troops died in the Vietnam War. It may have been humbling for the US, but it was catastrophic for Vietnam. Raising the specter of Vietnam is a scare tactic in the US, but not particularly inspirational for anyone else methinks. 2 Qs for you Cara a)Are there any ideals worth paying a heavy price for. Yes or no. If yes, I'd like you to state them please. b) Have you ever held a discussion with a Vietnameese indiviudal about the war, the heavy civillian casualty, the atrocities committed by the occupying forces, the inherent ugliness and savagery of war, and finally whether he/she thought it was worth it ? I have held that discussion and I'll have you know that the fighting an occupation, with all it's sacrifices, is a universal position common to all(ok, make that, most) human beings.

The old fart is but one man. he can die any minute! What then? Who are you guys gonna blame next? If willing, the concerned parties can use Uncle Sam's fears to address the reconciliation format You give the old fart(lol, I like that) too much credit. Pimp Daddy Zenawi has a line of willing stooges ready to work for him. And any single one of them, secure in the kursi of absolute power, is enough to carry-out the Etho agenda in Somalia. I'll throw out the names of the most well-known Somali ahem er 'politicans' currently operating in Somalia(there's a wealth of qualified honourable men in the diaspora), and see if you can find one who wouldn't sell his family, let alone the Somali nation, down the river for personal gain. Find one, who has a inkling of Somalinimo and walaal-tinimo. Find one, just one, who isn't completely in the pocket of Adeer Zenawi. Aight, ready ? Cabdullahi Yusuf. Cali Gheedi. Hebel Gacmodheere. Hebel Qeybdiid. Hebel Dheere. Barre Hiiraale. Cade Muse. Hebel Riyaale. Hebel Yalaxow. Muuse Suudi( ). Aideed Jr. So as you can see, Baash Muhandis, the issue isn't about reconcilliation vs Muqaawama....the issue is: THERE'S SIMPLY NOBODY TO TALK TO (lightbulb!!) If you honestly expect the aforementioned men to sit down on a dirin with the Muqaawama and negotiate with good faith and look out for Somali national interests, well, deluded is too gentle a word to use. If you agree with me that they are b.astards(figuratively speaking) who are motivated by greed and power-gain, then you must know that you're advocating total surrender when you use the wonderfully-sounding phrase reconciallation process. Simply put, adeer: There can be no reconcillation while Xabashi boots tread on Somali soil. There can no reconillation where you're expected to disarm and surrender before you're given chance to attend the dirin party. Once at the party, you are staring smack-dab at the barrel of an AK-47 wielded by a Xabashi maggot. And they speak of reconcillation. Isqancis !!!!!

ook at what is happening with Afghanistan and Iraq.. no one knew that it was gonna last this long Thank you very much. You just invalidated ur whole argument there, DD Check it: 6 years(longer than WWII) after the invasion of Afghanistan and 4 years(longer than WWI) after the invasion of Iraq, where does the Bush-Man and the 'Change the face of the Middle East" Neocons find themselves ? Well, let's see. In Afghanistan, the human-flesh eating Taliban are stronger than ever. They call the shots in large swathes all across the country and are even more popular than they were. Karzai has been reduced to an ineffictive figurehead. An Afghan guy told me they call him the Mayorof Kabul. So much for military might, eh ? In Iraq, the Bush administration is banging heads together, begging for a way out of this mess, while still saving face. Won't happen and most analysts say the vaunted American military machine will eventually be forced out due to political considerations with it's tail behind it's back. Kinda like Vietnam, only worse. Much much worse. Not my words, these is what the mainstream media and analysts are saying. So, DD, can you now see how you're perpetuating a defeatist myth with your 'Ethos won't leave...can't be defeated' talk ? If the Vietnamese humbled 4 US presidents and forced them leave, please tell me, why can't we do the same to the Xabash ? What's that ? Do I hear you say "we're not united, only a small portion of the Somalis are doing the fighting, they face overwhelming odds, they can't possibly win" Two words will shut that line of thought down immediately: Viet Cong

To those resisting it I say: submit today: fight another day! ^ Also known as the Coward's mantra. Ar dadka isqancis badaanaa. When is 'another day', bub ? Don't just spout meaningless rationalisations. 10 years ? 20 years ? 100 years ? And once the conditions are ripe for fighting the good fight, years down the line, watch for the current 'nabadoons' say: " Whoa, don't stir up no fitnah NOW. You got a problem with Siad Barre 2.0 and the system ? Work with it, check this, from the inside. Change the system from within. Never heard of the Magical Somali Dirin and it's amazing revolutionary capabilty ? Try it. Talk to the Adeer(whatever Xabashi fag who's in power) and I promise you he won't send you to a nice vacation to Siberia. Trust me. He won't. Can't lose with the Dirinprocess" Akhyaarta, wax-ba ha isku camirina sheekada. Ya'll know what time it is. Ya'll know too very well that if the Xabashi's are not fought today, to the bitter end, come what may come, then they will have an entrenched foothold(which they already do in SL, PL) in Somalia proper(so to speak). And then it's game over. Another century of Tikray domination. All because of spineless odayal who say something like: Live to fight another day. Now, if somebody tells me "It's very easy to talk all gangsta like that from your ergonomic Samsung keyboard and you ain't that one suffering from the retaliation of the Tikray/TFG monster"......To that, I plead guilty. But it doesn't invalidate what I'm saying. We're in the fight for our independence, akhyaarta. And the men and women who are waging it, no matter how small their numbers, no matter how weak their weaponry, deserve our full-fledged support and backing. At the very least. Been yaala iska qadin and isqancis-ka(rationalisation) hala joojiyo. P.S.: btw, The dirin reconcilliation idea is great and one which I whole-heartedly support.....................................................................................................................................................right after the last stinkin' Xabashi soldier is leaves thanks to an ever-increasing body-count. We'll sit down then and do the talking on the dirin then.

but I just don't understand how an intelligent and educated Somali would in good consciousness defend this man The million dollar question on SOL. I got a few of my own. How come Duke, 'Shaykh' Sakhar, and Violet, 3 nomads from different ends of the Somali spectrum(age, gender, location, background, education, 'religouisty') defend Abdullahi Amxaar and the Xabashi invasion ? How come Horn, Allamagan, and Aaliyah, again 3 diverse nomads, constantly defend the cough ahem 'honor' of both Barres, the dictator, and the Yahuudi ? How come Khalaf, an otherwise cool muslim brother, flips the script when politics is concerned ? Why cry for Taako Man, Pi, Xalane, Ebyan's banning ? Coincidence ? Happenstance ? finely attuned sense of justice ? How come ain't nobody defending Aideed's ahem legacy ? Show the late 'marxoom' nigga some love, same way ya'll showin it to Jalle Siad and soon-to-croak-out Yey & Gheedi I mean, dag yo, what other warlord can boast of a $25 million dolla bounty on his head. How can Aideed Sr be a bloodthirsty dog of hell and his son be an honourable, respectable, 'wax-garad' and Minister of Interior ? Heck, how can Aideed Sr be a killin' lootin' genocidal SOB while his lieutenants, the very architects of his murderous campaigns Adeeryaal Qeybdiid, Ato, Dheere, Qanyare etc, be considered the cream of the crop of what the Tikray Founded Government has to offer ? How come Oodeweyne/Tolstoy is quiet nowadays ? How come he isn't denouncing Riyaale with the same fervor he denounces Yey. They're both stooges, they both fly to Addis on a moments notice, and even worse, they've both handed over our most precious national resource: our scholars, over to the Xabashi's and their secret prisons. Why grudgingly(or enthusiastically) accept one as a 'democratically elected leader' and damn the other as a Stooge ? Rhetorical Q's but as Nur said in the other thread, good questions provide half the answer. ALL the answer when it comes to SOL politics section.

^^ Yeah, um er Gamal Abdul-Nasser was saying pretty much the the same thing, DQ. The same rah-rah nationalist'ic lines. The same crap about Curooba(Arab-hood). The same failed attempts to unify with Yemen and Syria based on the weak ties of nationalism and blood. Right up until Egypt lost two humilating wars and a sizeable chunk of it's territory to Israel. Yup, that shut them up pretty good. No more Arab-nimo crys after that. Your only hope, as a Somali refugee/immigrant in the Diaspora, lies with Islam and not Somalinimo-on-steroids. The sooner you wise up the the better.

Me, your recent 25 page thread was really a revelation. All in all, you come across as a brother with good intentions, but your starry-eyed hyper-nationalism (full-blown Somali-itis) is begging for urgent medical care. The doc will see you now Maybe you can explain your version of Somalinimo to the Somali girl I met at the bus stop who's family members were shot dead. In front of her. She told me that fact, so casually, after I gave a nice feel-good Somalinimo speech 'We gotta go back and fix our country yadda yadda". Egg on my face ma tiraahdaa. Maybe you can tell her its no biggie, cuz the people doing the killing were Somalis, and by virtue of their Somalinimo, she should just forgive them. Cafsi iyo masaamax, nooh Maybe you can explain your version of Somalinimo to my friend who as a kid, during the qax, went into the forest to take a leak and stumbled on Somalinimo Somalist Somali men (enough Somali for you?) taking turns raping a woman. He was 9. The victim's age? You don't want to know. Meel fog maxaa uu aadee. Maybe you can explain your version of Somalinimo to SOL's Jacaylbaro who, again as a child, witnessed the shelling and ruthless bombardment of his hometown by the very same Somali National Army that swore to protect him. Or the Somali National Army that poisoned the wells of Bari after Yey’s rebellion. Here we have the Somali Army, the supposedly uber-nationalistic symbol, protector of all things Somali, carrying out the agenda of a dictator by ruthlessly attacking civillian areas under the pretext of quelling a rebellion. The rebel movements(self-styled liberation 'jabhads')also committed atrocities. What do all these entities, running around, committing atrocities left and right have in common ? A secular approach devoid of Islamic values, principles, and rules, which led to the atrocities committed and a systematic tribal agenda. So much for Somalinimo. Maybe you can explain your version of Somalinimo to the children of the 11 scholar-shaheeds (ilaahay janada haka waraabiyo) murdered by Siad Barre (may he get from Allah what he deserves) Tell those children about unity, Somalinimo and how THEIR government, led by Aabo Siad, execueted their fathers for the good of the country and for Somalinimo. So they should actually be thankful to Mr. Guulwade for saving the country from the extremist wadaad terrorists who opposed the inheritance laws 'reforms' aimed at bringing Somalia in line with the modern world and casting off the shackles of 'Deen Carbeed'. Oh and you might want to tell them that you support (or do you?) Aabo Siad decisions to throw the Islamic inheritance laws to the wall and make up his own, since he's the Aabahee garashada and all, na mean? Or the decree banning girls from wearing the Hijab ? What’s a few Islamic laws rejected in return for 'keeping the peace' and ‘midnimo’, sax? Somalinimo aa ku waalatay. Hate to break it to you, but Somalis without their Islamnimo are wuxoosh , descending to a lower order than the beasts of the wild. What's that? You beg to differ? Mama Mia!! Ii sheeg sxbow, who are the people responsible for the killing taking place in my country over the past 30 years, both on the leadership and laymen level ? The CIA? The Jews ?, lol. Let me ask you a question, duqa. What walaal-tinio and Somalinimo is there between me and a jaat-chewing, chain-smoking clannist bum whose allegiance is to his 'Tol-ka' ? Forget that, answer me this. What walaal-tinimo and Somalinimo is there between me and macsharal Dhabo-dhilifs ? Somehow, I'm supposed to feel 'Somalinimo' towards them just because they speak Somali, wear a macawiis/dirac, and eat canjeelo with moos ? So that after that merry reconcillation conference in April(oops, June, double oops, indefinite timetable) we can all hold hands and dance to the Ethiopian national anthem under a Qurac tree. Lol. I don't know about you, dawg, but to me, they're worth about as much as a sewer rat. Hol’ up, I take that back. Sewer rats don't cheer on, or remain silent to, wholesale slaughter. To be more accurate, they're worth about as much as a dead Xabashi. Yup, don't think it could go any lower than a bloated Xabashi corpse. Sxb. As genuine and noble your good intentions are (again they don't cash that check at the bank), your version of secular Somalinimo is corrupt, bankrupt, and extinct. Deader than the Dodo itself. No more Kacaanka. No more Guulwade Aabahee-garashada Siad Barre. No more orientation centers. No more Somali National Army where soldiers were forbidden to pray. What else do you expect from a soldier who doesn't pray and the only thing he knows about Islam is his name: Cumar, Cali, Cisman. Do you think his sacred Somalinimo will prevent him from killing, raping, looting, shelling, and strafing his countrymen ? Salute the Somali flag in the morning, and butcher fellow Somalis in the afternoon, in the name of good ol' Somalinimo, Qaran-nimo, and Dawlad-nimo. Don't get me wrong. I'm not demonizing Somalinimo per se or the brave soldiers who were fighting against the Xabash in '77. No, no, no, my friend. I am a Somali and I love my country and my people, all of my people. Not because they're Somali, but because they're Muslim AND Somali. If a Somali chooses his 'Tol' or his warlord, or his region over his faith, it's rules and it's laws, then he's the one breaking his Somalinimo, not me. If a Somali becomes a Xabash-luvin' biatch, he's the one shedding his Somalinimo snakeskin, not me. What I'm demonizing is secular, dhabo-dhilif'ic, clannish, (add a few more adjectives) Somalinimo. What I call Somalinimo on steroids. The kind that is popular with Barre, Aideed, Yey, Gheedi, Riyalle and their cheerleadin’ apologists. I will not support, praise, or justify the actions of a dictator/warlord/skunk who MIGHT have done some good once upon a time, when that good came at the cost of a sea of human blood or going to Addis to get a stamp of approval from Suga Daddy Zenawi. Sayyid-ka didn't walk around talkin' bout "Somalinimo". In his book, you were one of three categories: Muslim, Gaal, and Gaalo-Raac. And he didn't distinguish between the last two. Legend has it that he tied the Gaalo-raac up and threw them in ocean. Alive. The bottom line is this, yo: The only force capable of healing those deep wounds caused to the collective Somali psyche by tribal strife and clannish zeal at the hands of power-hungry qabilisto men, is Deen-ul-Islam and it's application in all spheres of life. Not that clan-tinged sacab-tuming 'Islam-nimo' of Shaykh' Sakhar/Yoonis and other scholar-for-dollars. Nor feel-good 'Somaliyoo Toosooy' hurrah fireworks. That's some superficial BS that means only mockery to the victims of 'Somalinimo'. Maskaxthaatha ka bixi that any other force, be it a grand reconciliation council, or fowr-bointi-fife, will be able to achieve the level of communal unity and rewrite the fabric of Somali society as happened in ICU-led Mogadishu in a few weeks. The ICU weren't superhuman creatures to be able to tame the hell-hole of Mogadishu and 70% of Somalia in a matter of months. Something the joint resources of the EU, AU, UN, US, and 16 peace conferences were unable to do for 16 long years . These men simply took the laws of Islam and applied it to the best of their abilities and understanding. Do the same, you'll get the same results and even better. Do the same not, and I promise you, you will remain a refugee for the rest of your life. And you will grow old watching Addis Ababa summon her Somali eunuchs, one after the other, from Riyaale, to Cade 'Kuusow' Muse, to Gheedi, to their replacements, to do her bidding. By then, I hope you’re still not harping on Somali-nimo and the golden era of the Kacaanka. They say you gotta give a devil his due, so I'mma give Dictator Barre this much: The man was no dhabo-dhilif'ing snitch-b!tch and never bent over for the Xabashis. He had the backbone to pursue a pan-Somali foreign policy and wage war against the oldest Christian empire in Africa. A war we would have won, were it not for the Russo-Cuban-Yemeni-Libyan intervention. You have seen with your own two eyes what happens when Sharia law is applied. Forget you, the international community has seen with their own eyes what happens when Sharia law is applied. The international media has documented what happens when Sharia law is applied. It is the height of absurdity to yearn for the ‘hanti wathaag’ age where your faith was suppressed and viciously combated. Food for thought: Close to 500(maybe more) 'secessionist' thoroughbreds from Burco participated in the battles against the Xabash and their handmaidens on the grounds of Idaale and Diinsoor. They weren't bleeding for you, my friend. Nor were they bleeding for your version of 'Somalinimo'. I'll let you figure out what they were fighting and dying for. Let me give you one hint: They are more Somali and more Muslim than you and every single person who supports/ed Siad Barre as well as every single dhabo-dhilif who bleats seccionist on one hand and kills his own people with his own...oops, shiyeeet, almost said: his own hands, almost forgot that we're dealing with low-life cowards here... correction: and kills his own people with foreign hands. I-R-O-N-Y M-U-C-H. The 'Seccionist' is a Somali Shaheed(inshallah) and the 'Somalinimo''Dawladnimo' broken records are Xabash-luvin' munaafiqs. Somalinimo-on-steroids-ow xaal qaado. P.S. Ignore any rough patches, nothing personal, just writing all this ina hurry. I know you're against the TFG and are supporting the Muqawama so no need to defend urself there. Just chillax with the divisive anti-secession rhetoric and focus your efforts where its needed and where it counts. We’ve got a bigger dog to kill than secession. This particular dog looks like Meles Zenawi but barks like Abdullahi Yusuf. If you listen carefully to the barking, you’ll hear: Woof Woof Somalinimo Woof Woof Dawladnimo Woof Woof ‘peace and stability’ Woof Woof. Woof Woof, yo, Woof Woof.

“ They [Ethiopia] will help us with security,” said President Adde while addressing last week’s arrival of a fresh contingent of Ethiopian troops in Galkayo, Puntland’s southernmost city. The President said there were “active” members of the ousted Islamic Courts movement inside Puntland, and that the newly arrived Ethiopian troops will help the secure the region from such threats Umm, anybody wanna take a crack at this ? It's like a fresh fish waiting to be gutted. "Ethiopia is like a mother bear taking care of her cubs: Us, Somaliland, Jubaland, and TFG land. In the warm embrace of hers claws, er, I mean paws, we shall not fear the terrorists who ahh seek to do us harm" said President Cade 'Butac' Muuse. The rotund President later aknowledged, on a off-the-record basis, that he sold the last remaining shreds of his dignity at the popular Dhamanish market in downtown Addis Abba. He said he got a sweet deal: 100 birrs, a original Sony DVD player, and lifelong military support. Reality-as-we-wanna-see-it Gazzette(RG) Reported by Kooshin Balaq-balaq.

One question that was unclear from your well-written well-reasoned post, Baashi. I'll come back with my take on it after I get that clarification: Should there be any form of armed resistance to the Ethiopian guests currently occupying Somalia. If the answer is NO, please give us a timeframe for the duration of their stay. Is it an open-ended "they stay at the pleasure of the TFG" thing ? If it becomes clear that they are here for the long-term, should the Somali people "swallow their pride and concede" or form an armed resistance and expel the invaders and those who stand with them Critical points that haven't been covered together with the biggest pink elephant in the room: the Ethiopian agenda.

I have taken a stand. See my earlier posts - but it seems since you haven't seen my 'stand' of late - you jump to conclusions. And regardless of whether I take a stand or not - a minor call for civility somehow pisses you off yet you claim the 'islamnimo' mantle to you and your own. What is that about? Ok, seems like I understand you a little bit better now. What I am emphasizing, sxb, is that this isn't an academic intellectual exercise. This isn't debate class. Human beings are being slaughtered on the ground. A 'minor call for civility' at this particular time, especially if it's one-sided, can make people misunderstand you, justifiably so. Let's be frank. There is no civility, there was no civility, in the Politics section. Ever. Why raise the banner of respectability when the heat is on the TFG camp ? My modus operandi is simple: Respect gets respect. Do not expect me to seriously entertain and politely refute, point-by-point, flaming clannists, who have nothing to contribute except caytin and qosol. They get nothing from me except ridicule. I'll reserve my brain cells for people like you who although I may disagree with(or simply not know where they stand ), at least can provide a structured responsed without bleating: Clan Courts or Secessionist or Looted Properties at any post they are incapable of responing to. I wouldn't blame them. How in the world does a sane Somali Muslim justify allying with and inviting in Arch-gaalo and use their weapons to kill other Somali Muslims. It's an impossible position, hence, their resorting to name-calling and qosol-gareer. Of course, I guess a flexible open-minded person like you would view that impossible position as a feasible acceptable stance, eh ? That's where we differ, you and I. To be honest, I still don't know where you stand. I read all of of your recent posts and could discern nothing about your views on the nature of this conflict. You frequently ask questions(one-sided, in my view) and don't provide clear-enough responses. Flexibility is a choice euphemism for a unprincipled stand. I don't think it's too difficult, sxb. Here try these straightforward questions out. 1- Do you support Abdullahi Yusuf, the man, the clannist, the beholden-to-Etho-interests lackey ? 2- Do you support the invasion/invitation(depending on how you see it) of the Ethiopian troops ? 3- Do you support the indiscriminate shelling and bombarding of Mogadisho(no ifs or buts) ? 4- Do you support the active killing and targeting of all and any armed Ethiopian soldiers on Somali soil 5- During the December war between the Islamic Courts and the Tikrey/TFG alliance, who did you support ? Why ? Runtii, sxb. It ain't too hard. Brief, direct answers will do. Once you're able to clarify your stance, our discussion can move forward with clear parameters and no need of 2nd-guessing.

That's a rough estimate, sxb. And I should've wrote a few hundred million dollars at max. It doesn't make a difference anyway. Whether 1 mil, 10 mil, or a 100 mil, that is a insignificant trifling amount to go to war for and face the Etho-American war machine. Which makes the 'looted properties' charge so laughable. Unlike the local dhabo-dhilif contingent who are using 'looted properties' as an easily transparent excuse for backing Adeer Yey and the Tikrey cousins , my family actually owns property in Mogadisho that was a)looted and b) stolen c) taken over by squatters who refused to leave. Do you see me jumping up and down with tribal frenzy, baying for the blood of 'those people' who stole my property ? The crickets are back to chirping again. Gobanimo, yaa Point-ka, is not a matter of birth. It's a matter of upbringing. I hope you can whisper that in their ears.

"Your uncle", "Your tribe", "Your tol", "Your Social Gatherings" are all very commonly employed phrases here in the SOL politics section. Thanks for letting me know that those phrases are hitting home, it just validates and confirms my thoughts. The ol' "meel bugta aa isku taabatay". The others resisted bravely, but you had to raise the white flag and cry foul. Why highlight the importance of 'tolka', you ask ? Simple. That is the one parameter of discussion that unites the vocal dhabo-dhilifs on SOL. It wouldn't be an issue if there was an healthy mix together with sound arguements. All I see tho, is blatant clannist rhetoric coupled with Yey-worship. Where the heck are Gheedi's click, yo ? lol Let's not kid ourselves. There is one reason and only one reason why you and others are supporting the TFG and the Etho occupation of Somalia. It has been covered, commented on, highlighted, and discussed a zillion times. I don't have to spell it out for you. You're close if you're nodding along with me. I give you points on subtly tryna call me a tribalist . Good job. I now join the honourable ranks of other "They hate us" esteemed nomads like Nur, Xiin, Paragon, Tahliil, Mujaahid Red Sea, Northerner, among many others. What do they all share in common ? "They hate Adeer Yey and the dhabo-dhilifs, therefore they hate me. I am an indivisible part of Aabo Cabdullahi. Hate him, you hate me, no more debate, you're a tribalist" Aight, Didi. As long as you play it real and raw like that, we're cool. Just don't hide behind noble words like "peace and stability" and "dawladnimo"

^ Your alternative: Engage in fake politeness while Somalia burns ? The equivalent of the social trappings of 18th century Britain. Hold social functions while a entire country is getting destroyed. Nice. Taas aatha kuu dhaafay, yaa King Kong

^ Adeer Zenawi is a benevolent uncle to all those who are willing to shed their Islamnimo and Somalinimo at the door. Something Adeeryaal Yey, Riyaale, Gheedi(with his immaculate Etho heritage), Cade 'butac' Muuse , among other Somali siyasiyeen have in common: A readiness to get pimped in return for the illusions of power. One thing I'd like to credit clan dictator Siad Barre for: To my knowledge, he never kow-towed nor grovelled at the feet of Ethiopia. For that, he deserves respect and a clear distinction between the adeeryaal mentioned above.

^ So if you meant me, how am I not consistent ? I think you didn't understand my 3 easy ways to be neutral on SOL, read it again with the key word: irony in mind. Kashafa, not Khashfa. Pronounciation: 3 syllables. Ka-shaa-fa(english) or Ka'shaafa(arabic) See camal, duqa. Af-carabiga ma kuu gooyay, lol.

Point-ka, Yes, my passion for justice and disgust at dhabo-dhilif cheerleading for my country's destruction is indeed running high. That should be the default position of anybody with an ounce of Islamnimo or basic humanity. There's politics and then there's what we're witnessing on SOL past few days, which if I'm not mistaken, you've been position-less on. The worst fighting in Mogadisho in 15 years, yet you remain silent ? And then whistle a red card at North and others because they've overstepped the boundaries of pleasent discussion, or something to that effect ? I can understand if you don't wanna mix it up in the politics section, cuz it can get ugly. But stepping in to yell foul at something petty while purposely(in my view) ignoring the horrific events on the ground as well as the faults of the TFG camp, well, that just speaks for itself. And it doesn't spell neutrality or moderation. No, I don't consider you an enemy. That said, I'm not the only one to have noticed your convenient 'neutrality' which is what I was highlighting in the my earlier post. Take a stand, articulate it, provide your reasoning, even inject a lil heat in it, but it all starts with taking a clear stand. Superflous Sensei, I think you're mistaking me, Kashafa, with Khalaf. Don't see how the names can be similar, but the difference in positions are as clear as daylight.

"Bi silaaxil Xaq'il ba'taari, sanu xariiru ardhal Soomaali " "Lan nar'dhaa bi juz'in mux'tallin, lan natruka shibran li 'thuli" Inshallah, no doubt in my mind, that Somalia will be restored to Islamic rule. The Tikrey /TFG alliance will be destroyed. Think the Red Soviet war machine tucking its tail and running after 8 bloody years of guerilla warfare . A few years later, the world's greatest superpower(nukes) and largest country(land mass) collapses and Communism is declared dead. Adeer Zenwai will wish he wasn't born.

I am just waiting for when AY dies and the Ethiopians name a new stooge who is not from the clan that most support AY, what will happen then, will they become mucaarads? will General Duke and Xalane be freedom fighters all of the sudden? ^^ If that does happen, rest assured that Duke, Inc will either suddenly become a freedom fighter or a newly-minted separatist, like MMA predicted. Tribal logic, duqa: Everything is justifiable

Mujaahid Red Sea said this Let me know when the Xabashis leave the country, then give the UIC a week, this so called TFG thing would be history. No kidding. The cowards are the ones who are crying for foreign help. Stand up and fight alone like men Tikrey Pi replied Many others mention thousands of Tigree soldiers kusoo qulqulaya Muqdishu. Add two and two together. The army is not coming in Muqdishu to play soccer. We'll see what the next few days brings. In other words, we're perfectly happy to let other men do the fighting and dying thing for us. We're not too keen on the dying part, feel me ? We just wanna put Adeer Yey on the kursi. Is that so hard to understand, yaakhay ? Let me simplify it. The Tikreys do the fighting part, the Islamic Courts do the surrendering/dying part, Adeer Yey, and by extension my tribal ego, does the ruling part. So why can't those doggone warriors just march up and line themselves on a open field so that Etho-American jets can strafe them ? Come to think of it, why don't they just commit mass suicide hara-kiri style, isn't that the manly way to go out ? Allow your enemy to kill you so that people can call you manly and heroes ? Or better yet, kill yourself so that you can save face and honour and allat jazz. Welcome to Idiotic Dhabo-dhilif Logic 101: Nothing is too insane for us. Pi, I hope you realise how dense you sound. You're welcome, don't even mention it. I'd also like to point out that you concede willing in your reply, that the TFG would not survive a week without Tikrey oxygen support. That's a first and I congratulate you for accepting the obvious. Baby steps, will do nicely at this point.

Originally posted by Violet: All you need to know is that the Islam was used as a cloak by certain people who were "wadaads" by day and criminals by night. When they saw that using Islam wasn't getting them far, they reverted back to their clannish ways as evidenced by their asking of the big-bad-enemy Ethiopia to stay because they didn't have a problem with them, the problem is/was with Puntland . This isn't about religion or nationalism, it's about keeping stolen properties and it's very sad that some people would rather die than give up what wasn't theirs to begin with. These same people are trying to rally their larger clan by telling them that this war is a war between the clan of Mogadishu and the clan of Puntland, but fortunately most people see right through this charade. Their parliamentarians aren't speaking up because there's nothing to speak up about. You can't use your clan like a credit-card; swiping it when you're in trouble and saying to hell with it when you're in power. They are opportunities and the faster we get rid of them, the better. Pathetic talking points from a typical clannist mindset. This drivel is what passes for debate these days. How in the world, yaa jamacaatul khayr, does a serious person respond to this with anything other than ridicule and derision ? Shoot, lemme try. Madam Violet(enough forced civility or should I ratchet it up a notch ?), 1- Who are these 'certain people' you speak of ? And how come these 'certain people' include Somalis from every laf and every tuulo ? I know it's hard for you to comprehend, but lemme tell you there are people in this world that are united and who will die for each other, not by 'yaa tahay', but by 'maxaa aamin-santahay'. Lil somethin somethin called Al-Wal'aa wal Bar'aa. Oops, I forgot. That centuries-old Islamic concept was invented by 'certain people' to subdue and control the masses, a elaborate power-gaining tool. These 'certain people' sure are crafty Instead of saying 'certain people'(lol good one), why don't you be good enough to say: "My adeer-yaal's historical enemy" or something like "I still got lingering beef from '91". Be honest with yourself. No need to hide behind a smokescreen like 'certain people'. It's apparent to all that you're speaking from a clannist viewpoint, wear your badge with pride. Just like you proudly carry the pic of Aabo Cabdullahi in your signature. Is it too much to ask to be real ? Duke's real. Sakhar's real. Xalane's real. You should try out this 'keepin' it clan' thing for a week, if it don't fly, you're welcome to the Dawladnimo-by-way-of-Etho-occupation oxymoron. 2- This isn't about religion or nationalism, it's about keeping stolen properties and it's very sad that some people would rather die than give up what wasn't theirs to begin with Humor me for a sec, will ya ? Do you actually honestly believe what you just typed ? Maybe you don't understand the sheer ignorance and stupidhity(to say the least) of what you wrote so lemme put it plain af-english for you: The Islamic Courts of Somalia were fighting for one thing and one thing only: to secure and keep for ever the looted properties whose maximum worth does not exceed a few million dollars, if that much. Thats what they were fighting for, thats what they were dying for. Looted properties. All talk of Islam or saving the country from Etho occupation was bogus. They kicked out the criminal warlords(Aideed, Qeybdiid, Qanyare) for looted properties. Looted properties. Looted properties. Umm, Looted properties. yeah, umm. Looted properties. ^ No offence, but if that isn't the most doqon'tastic thing I've heard in a long time, I don't know what doqonimo means. Mind you, I'm engaging you because, unlike some here, you can actually put together a paragraph or two with a point to it. It may be an incredibly dense point, but at least it's structured well and can be rebutted. Talking to the local dhabo-dhilif squad is like talking to a group of well-trained chimpanzees who can only repeat a few phrases ad nauseum: "Indhocade, umm, Indocade, Clan Courts, Clown Courts(haha, didja see that clever wordplay , banana please ?), Shabeelada Hoose, 2000 eriterian troops, *scratches head hard* Did I say Indhocade ? Dang, Indocadde's cousin. Big-time criminal. And his Irish cousin Liam Bailey. Umm yeah, Clan Clown Criminal Crap Courts(tee-hee, ain't I a smart dhabo-dhilif cookie ?)." Zero substance. Zero authentication. Talking for the sake of not looking desperate by being silent. We gotta say something, anything, the more outlandish it sounds, the better. Howabout this: 'certain people' are known to eat babies Hope you can do better than these lamer-than-lame talking points, Madam. Now, it goes without saying that the looted properties charge is baseless, a naked attempt to marr the noble record of the Islamic Courts with the taint of Qabilism and the '91 civil war. So besides tol-ka gossip, do you, Madam Violet, have any substantiated proof, I'll even accept anecdotal evidence, to this duplitious rallying cry of the dhabo-dhilifs ?