^^^^ You people must live in the cheap side of London! :cool:

Ok. Ok. I confess. I am Wind Talker! I apologise for any inconvenience my irresponsible actions caused.

Aeronwen, Slowly move away from that mirror, darling....

^^^ I know It still gave me satisfaction that I’m not that far behind Yunis though. He had to write two posts before he managed to get the correct word (ask someone perchance?). This reminds me of a little idea for a thread I had the other day. Better get on with it and post it. Back in a minute.

^^^

Castro Aeronwen, I bet the phrase was coined by a woman.

^^^ Read K.I.S.S.I.N.G again Cawo, your mention of the age thing and hint at women of twenty-eight-years of age being considered old spinsters, reminded me of the gloriously, utterly imaginative, provocative and beautiful Somali term of Qul Ku Raag! Have you ever come across a more evocative phrase (in any language)? It’s so gentle, protective and caring, yet so vicious, inhospitable and contemptuous! PS I have a premonition that someone will soon ad-lib some poetry and others will hastily question my correctly written word. I might be wrong of course. It’s merely a hunch. :cool:

^^^Hello stranger. Where have you been all this time? Hope all is well with you. You’re getting old, darling, you’re getting old. That 3000 post party seems to have taken it out of you and now you’re not as prolific as you were. Sort it out, Sunshine. :mad: Though it’s not my habit to welcome all the newbies (they only end up disappointing me), I might as well, since I’m here, welcome Elvis. Welcome Elvis. :cool:

Originally posted by As-salafiya: As salaamu calaykum. I believe love DOES exist. It goes through 3 stages. 1-Xub: is when you like the person and you enjoy their company. 2-Cishq:is when you LOVE the person and you're thinking of marrying him/her. 3-Wudd: is when you have love and mawada"compassion" for the peorson,this comes AFTER marriage! The best love is when you love for the sake of Allaah. Markaa jaceylku wax sahlan maaha waana loo dhintaa!!! I hope nobody asks me how Wasalaam Where is the GHARAM غرام SABABA صبابه TAYATUM تيتم (As in MOTAYAM FI HAWAKI) HAWA هوا WALAH وله HIYAM (know the name?) هيام Of course, I’m only using these terms because you choose to use the Arabic definitions for love. Love me tender Love me sweet Never let me go. You have made my life complete, And I love you so.

^^^ Spot on. We live in a bluetooth age, saaxib.

^^^^ On a serious note though, I doff my hat to you, saaxib There isn’t much there I can refute or disagree with really. Mea culpa.

وزائرتي كأن بها حياء Ùليس تزور إلا ÙÙŠ الظلام Ùرشت لها المطار٠والحشايا ÙعاÙتها ونامت ÙÙŠ عظامي يضيق الجلد عن Ù†Ùسي وعنها Ùتوسعه بأنواع السقام إذا ما Ùارقتني غسّلتني كأنا عاكÙان على حرام كأن الصبح يطردها Ùتجري مدامعها بأربعة سجام أراقب وقتها من غير شوق مراقبة المشوق المستهام ويصدق وعدهاوالصدق شر إذا ألقاك ÙÙŠ الكرب العظام أبنت الدهر عندي كل بنت٠Ùكي٠وصلت أنت من الزحام جرحت مجرحاً لم يبق Ùيه مكان للسيو٠ولا السهام ألا ياليت شعر يدي أتمسي تَصَرَّÙÙ ÙÙŠ عÙنان أو زمام The inimitable Al Motanabi talking about a mere fever.

Has the wise NGONGE fallen in the chase of that phantom state I have not 'fallen' for anything yet, saaxib. I said it before and I say it again, I don’t trust Somali politicians and this non-trust negates my support for Somaliland. This is really the long and short of it. As a concept (and under the circumstances) I have no opposition to the idea of Somaliland nor do I regard it as a phantom state. I’m not a flag waving Somalilander but I’m (I believe) amongst the loudest of those that DEMAND recognition. I will only wave the flag when the place is recognised. Opportunistic? Anyway, with those teasing words of yours, you’re almost forcing me to wave the flag in your face and point out that Somalia (the colonel’s Somalia) is really the phantom state. Here Xiin

Lubna had a secret. It was the kind of secret that one tried their utmost to keep from their parents. Lubna hated keeping secrets. In fact, Lubna was a frightening gossip. However, this morning, when she borrowed her younger sister’s mobile phone to make an urgent call, she stumbled upon this juicy revelation. Lubna is twenty-eight years old. She’s pretty and, still, single. Her sister (the mobile phone owner - Nora) is twelve years younger. She too is pretty and, as of this morning, because of Lubna’s discovery, is not single! The boy on the phone was very forward and was not awfully rattled when he realised it was not his girl that answered the phone. He even, unwittingly, insulted Lubna by asking her if she was his beloved’s mother! Now Lubna was sat in her room with her sister’s mobile phone in hand and she was, as befits the duty of a big sister, rummaging through the younger sister’s (Nora) text messages. The ill-mannered boy’s nickname was Max! He seems to send Nora at least ten text messages per day. This, Lubna quickly concluded, means that the love is at its early stages. She quickly tried to think of ways that will help her put an end to this affair. As she sat there thinking, an image flashed through her mind. She immediately softened up and wistfully sighed to herself. Once upon a time, Lubna too was sixteen and had her own admirers. Though she’s single now, she was not short of experience and (mostly) heartache when it came to relationships. Lubna remembered her first ever crush. Unlike other girls, it was not with the Indian guy in the corner store. It was not with one of her brother’s handsome friends. It was not with some famous actor on TV either. Lubna’s first crush was with the silent caller. The first time she ‘met’ him, she was fourteen years old and home alone. Her family lived in a flat in Dubai throughout the eighties and early nineties. Lubna was not supposed to talk to, mix with or have anything to do with boys. She went to an all girl school and only ever mixed with her brothers and male cousins. But, on that magical day Nasser phoned her! When the phone rang and she casually answered it, she did not expect the call to be anything special. However, after the first casual ‘hello’ didn’t elicit any response and the second cautious ‘hello’ didn’t draw out any reply, Lubna realised this was a special phone call and something mischievous within her told her this is going to be an exciting phone call. She carefully held the receiver close to her ear and asked ‘is anyone there?’ She got no reply! She again whispered the word ‘hello’. She got no reply. She quickly hung up and stood staring at the phone for a few seconds. The phone rang again! Lubna skipped a beat. She quickly picked it up and spat out a hurried hello. There was no reply! She asked if anyone was there but there was no reply. She went silent and waited for whoever was on the other side to speak. He finally spoke. It was a boy’s voice! Lubna asked him who he was and what he wanted. He didn’t reply. She hung up. He phoned again and blurted the magic words ‘I love you’. Lubna’s heart skipped several beats. This was the first time a boy told her he loved her! Her girlfriends told her that when a man confesses his love a girl has to play hard to get and feign indifference. Lubna, in her attempt to act aloof and uninterested blew a half raspberry and sweetly asked him what makes him love her! He told her that her voice made him love her. She failed to suppress a giggle as she asked him what else made him fall in love with her. He told her it was the way she spoke and giggled. She tittered some more and asked him if he liked her looks. He seemed to struggle for an answer but quickly recovered and told her that though he has not seen her yet, in his mind’s eye, he was sure she was the prettiest girl alive. Lubna was disappointed and was silent for almost ten full seconds. Nasser panicked and begged her to speak to him and say anything. In a very sombre and serious voice, Lubna asked him what he wanted from her. Nasser told her that he fell in love with her voice and personality. He told her that he was not into the superficial love of faces and looks. He told her he loved the inner her and that he can’t imagine life without hearing her sweet voice. Though he could not see it, Lubna was softening up and even had a smile on her face as she listened to him. He stopped talking and asked her if she was there. She said ‘yes’. He asked her if she hated him. She said ‘no’. He asked if she loved him. She said ‘not sure’. He asked her if she could ever love him. She sniggered and said ‘don’t know’. Lubna heard the front door open and quickly told Nasser that her parents are home and that she had to go. He asked her when should he phone her again. She said ‘tomorrow, same time’. As she hung up the phone, she heard him whisper ‘I love you’! Nasser did not phone the next day. He did not phone the day after that or the one after. He did not phone her for a full four weeks! Lubna was disappointed and heartbroken, for with every passing day, she grew convinced that she too was in love with Nasser! Lubna got up and went to look through her old dairies. She found the diary she wanted. It was dated February 1991. In it, in cryptic language, she had written about the four weeks that Nasser was absent and the pain she felt back then. The page was full of bleeding hearts with broken arrows. It had bits of poems on the side and famous sayings about absence, love and the meaning of life. Twenty-eight-year-old Lubna smiled to herself as she read her own innocent scribbling and youthful thoughts. As she flicked through the pages, she remembered the day Nasser returned. On that second occasion, their conversation was more serious and they both pledged their undying love. Nasser confessed that the reason he did not call was because he forgot her phone number and was waiting for the monthly-itemised phone bill to arrive. He told her how ill, livid and sad he felt when he could not hear her voice for those long four weeks. He however agreed with her when she told him that those four weeks apart were necessary and that without them she wouldn’t have realised that she loved him! Nasser and Lubna spoke on the phone daily for a whole year. She found out he was a year older than her. He told her all about his family and friends and hobbies. Within months, there was nothing that Lubna did not know about Nasser or Nasser about Lubna. He sent his photos to her local corner shop for her to pick up. She sent her photo to his local corner shop for him to pick up. The planned to get married in ten years time when Lubna was 24! Lubna remembered how all her school friends were in awe of her and Nasser. She recalled how a dozen of her friends would turn up each evening and try to listen on to her phone conversations with Nasser. She remembered how some of them were themselves secretly in love with Nasser! Lubna couldn’t remember why or how her relationship with Nasser ended. She nervously flicked through the pages of the dairy to see if she can find any clues that would remind her what went wrong. The date it took place was the 14th of March 1992. The entry in her diary in that day had the usual bleeding hearts and arrows but the poetry was darker. The words were about treachery, hatred and respect! There was even a pathetic attempt at writing her own poetry there. She spoke about when lovers and friends float away in deceitful boats, and the love story ends while a best friend gloats! Lubna quickly turned the page to see if there were any more clues to explain the end of that distant affair. She came across a happy page with smiley faces, kisses and happy hearts filling the page! Was the Nasser story back on, she wondered! As she read through the page and deciphered the usual poetry, she remembered that this was not at all about Nasser. This was about her second love! His name was Kamal and she first met him while she was out shopping with her mother. Kamal was a bald and daring man. He had the cheek to slip her his phone number while her mother was haggling with the shop owner over some garments. All her friends told her that her relationship with Kamal was the expected rebound from the Nasser affair, but she wouldn’t listen. Her love affair with Kamal didn’t last long of course. As she thought about Nasser, Kamal and the three or four love affairs that followed them, she remembered Nora and Max! Should she spill the beans and tell mother about this affair? Should she, like in her case with Nasser, let young love run its true course? Nora came into the room and asked for her mobile phone back. Lubna had no time to hide the text message she was reading. She quickly apologised and told Nora that ‘her secret’ is safe. Nora giggled and said ‘you think I’m in love with Max? Max is an ***** , my dear, an ***** that’s been pestering me for months’. Lubna sighed wistfully and started writing something in her dairy.....

Lander, You ask: where did you mention Israel was in violation of international law? I gave you the quote below about international law. To state the obvious is vulgar, saaxib. One needs to read between the lines. Shall I write it with big letters (as they say in Somali)? Sadly, in the case of Palestine, if you look at all the resolutions passed by the United Nations, you will notice that they’re all recommendations and not demands (these are called chapter VI resolutions). The resolution that led to the invasion of Iraq is a chapter VII (it‘s more severe). Incidentally, 1559 is a VI resolution: Syria was only forced to withdraw from Lebanon when Hariiri was assassinated. Hizb-u-Allah has not put down its arms). I'm not sure what the following means: ^^^The obvious was not the source of my antagonism towards saxiibkay Ngonge, rather the not so obvious and further reaching facts. :confused: Care to explain? Tolstoy, My feelings towards Somaliland are honourable ones, saaxib. I wish her nothing but the best. However, I'm not sure what happens there right now is the best or that those in charge are the best. You’re right, I am cold hearted, cynical and pessimistic by nature. We’ve spoken about this before and I’m sure you understand my position on the issue. Still, every once in a while my pessimism is suspended and I find myself, suddenly, unexpectedly and very wildly waving the Somaliland flag and singing the praises of my motherland (it normally happens when there are any journalists within earshot). However, while I’m in the height of this euphoria someone would pass me a cutting of a radio interview, newspaper article or political speech by some prominent Somalilander and I find myself slowly, visibly and painfully getting deflated and losing hope again. One such occasion was after the recent parliamentary elections. I’ve got to admit that I too (yeah, I know it’s hard to believe) got swept along in the wave of optimism and proudly applauded the wisdom of the Somaliland politicians. Someone then passed me a link to an interview that the tireless, hardworking and dedicated Mrs Edna Aden gave to the Africa Today magazine. I truly admire Mrs Aden, I truly do. However, I believe that our most famous midwife is not going to deliver this baby (if the baby is to be delivered at all) Here, read her interview

^^^^^^these views were simplistic and made generalizing statements specially regarding International law and its application in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I am no lawyer or student of law, but even my modest knowledge is enough to refute your views . So, as long as we are both being pretentious (since you claim that I am after "a history lesson") let me be equally as bold and claim that your statements are similar to those found on CNN or BBC, they lack appreciation for the complexities of these issues and sound like regurgitated statements So far, you have not refuted anything. Go ahead and refute them. It's the way discussions work, saaxib. Surely I didn't expect you to write every single implication in one short post, however you could've explained the grey areas that exist in "international law" and for example how or why it makes Israel a legal entity and an illegal occupier at the same time and whether these laws are equitable or not in your opinion . I believe I’ve already done that. Saaxib, if every time you read something someone writes you come in with your preconceived ideas of what that someone is saying, you will never be able to understand a word that person is writing. You came here with some predetermined ideas of your own about my take on things (this bad habit is very rampant in SOL). Did I not attempt to explain the way international law works? Did I not (rather weakly and humbly for I am not a lawyer) try and explain how LAW works? What more could you possibly want? An opinion? I thought I already asked you if that’s what you wanted to know in my first post! Still, I agree with you that the views were simplistic. They were, after all, in reply to the simplistic statement that Israel is an illegal state, like with like, dear Rumpole. However, they remain correct. As for regurgitating what the BBC and CNN say, well, they are news sources, inaadeer. They don’t make the news up (like our Somali news sources), they deal with facts. The spin only comes in the way the facts are presented. Are you following me or am I going too fast for you? Btw the "ace" you speak of that yasser arafat had in declaring independence I think your off on that point. Fact of the matter is Bush jr. is the first U.S. President to even publicly state a "two state solution" and therefore the first president to acknowledge that the palestinians have a right to their own state. U.S. policy prior to that was to never publicly acknowledge the right to a "Palestinian State" and as a consequence if any resolution came in front of the U.N. where Palestine declared independence whitout consulting and receiving the green light from Israel or the United States, it surely would have been brought down by the U.S It's as if the Camp David and the Oslo Agreement did not take place! War, this case did not start with 9/11, saaxib. Go and read up on the subject. It's very irritating when one puts in the effort when taking part in a discussion only to find out that those on the other side are merely pulling his leg. ALSO, your references (or I would refer to them as "jabs") on Somaliland lack any "snap". When you speak of "precedents" there is so much to be said of that matter that I'll leave it alone for now, since it seems to me that even your example of Somaliland independence setting a "precedent" is another simplistic pop term that is often floated around to explain the international communities lack of recognition. My advice to you on that front is that if your not singing the praises of mandeeq, move along homey you need not concern yourself with that matter all together. Now, here, paranoia rears its ugly head again. You do me a huge disservice when you consider my mention of Somaliland as a dig (or jab as you put it). Here, again, you come with baggage from previous discussions and personal assumptions. Lander, there are many ways of explaining things to people. With children, in order to keep their interest in the subject you’re speaking about, you’ll mention oranges, apples, stars or toys. Have you never had to count apples in order to learn maths? With football lovers, one makes a football metaphor or two. With you, whom I know is an ardent Somalilander that follows the politics of the place and is aware of all the issues to do with recognition; I use Somaliland to illustrate my points. There are no hidden agendas or childish digs. As for singing the praises of Mandeeq or not concerning myself of the place, well, erm: I’m going to complain to adeero Silaanyo about you and demand that you’re banned from dhulkayaga. Adigo kolay waxad tahay an Udub nincompoop anyway, mese Ucid baad aheed? This also takes me back to the following comment of yours: Red Herring eh...Mayee wa BLACK herring , must be one of those posh words I think I heard prince charles use that before. Something along the lines of going off topic ain't it? Yet in this last response you've managed discuss Iraq, The U.S. supreme court, precedents in LAW 101, Somaliland, Catholics and Israel/Palestine etc..Ngonge if there was so many hours in the day perhaps I would respond to you in a more elaborate manner, but let me get to the point since I have no such time: I’ve tried this with many Nomads before you but it never seemed to work. However, I’m a sensitive soul and would not be able to sleep at night if I didn’t at least try to share, spread and sprinkle some of my wisdom to my fellow brothers and sisters. You see, my dear Lander. All those that frequent discussion forums are salespeople of one sort or another. We’re all selling opinions and arguments. In order for me to convince you of my argument, I’ll have to have the best sales pitch possible. Let us assume this discussion is about houses, your house and mine. In your argument so far, you’re trying to sell me your house ,because, your neighbour has a good and pretty house or some such nonsense! There is no mention of YOUR house and its qualities. I’ve given you my argument already (which is the house). I then went further in trying to sell you the house by showing you how great its French windows are (see the mention of precedents). I then took you to the back of the house and showed you what a big garden it has (diplomacy playing a great part in shaping international law. It is a big garden, saaxib). I hoped that by this time you would be wavering and I tried to incorporate something that is dear to you into my sales pitch, your house (Somaliland). I believe that I beautifully linked it to my argument (sales pitch). I then went on to show you how houses in America are bought and sold (Supreme Court and the fact that a majority of Catholics might mean a risk that abortion laws will be reversed). This last one was to hint at relevant issues when talking about law and how it changes (it was supposed to be the one that clinches the deal). Alas, I couldn’t close the deal. It was a brilliant sales pitch. I gave a marvellous presentation and I was attentive to my customers’ needs. Why then is nobody buying it? Eur-bloody-eka! As ever, I’m trying to sell meat to a vegetarian! And I bet the rest of the vegans are shaking their heads with confusion as they read this too.....

A gift from me to you, boys. Consider it an Eid gift. Now you can watch all the games live. :cool: Live Football

Great! Now that we pinpointed who the warlords are, we need some volunteers to go and round them up, people. Come on, come one, don’t be cowards. These are only a bunch of spent old men.

^^^ Reminds me of an unbeaten team last season that also were great but got found out in Old Trafford and still have not recovered from that shock. They, of course, went a whole season unbeaten and were top of the league before losing to the Sir Alex's boys! Could this be the real start of the season? PS At this stage of the season a ten point advantage is nothing (three defeats and a draw shall even things out). Remember how Newcastle lost a 12-point lead in the days of Keegan? Remember how Arsenal caught up with United in the past?

^^^ You mean you're going to fight to keep things as they are? That's one original Somali solution. Somebody should tell those in charge.

Eid Mubaarak to all the SOL members, staff and readers. May all your Eids be happy and safe.

Time to leave this thread.

Lander, Sounds like you’re after a history lesson here, saaxib. What you wrote there, with all due respect, though interesting and educational to all the other readers, is nothing but a red herring. Are you asking for a definition of International law? Are you pointing out that it’s faulty? Are you attempting to prove that Israel is an illegal state? What exactly are you after there? First, let me return to the Palestinian State and why it has not been declared, yet. In 1988 the PLO declared the independence of Palestine. This is different to what the Palestinian Authority has been dying to declare ever since the Oslo accord. You see, everyone can declare independence (see our beloved Somaliland), however, in order for that to be set in stone, you also (in the case of the Palestinians) have to announce your borders, air space and areas that fall under your jurisdiction. The Palestinian Authority wants to announce that its land is all that land which was occupied in 1967. Israel and the international community (mainly America & UK) don’t want such a declaration. As you’re aware, the UN (and therefore, the international community) is committed to recognising a Palestinian state and its authority over its lands. If the PL (Palestinian Authority) goes ahead and (unilaterally) declares itself as a sovereign state with control over all the occupied lands (including the disputed East Jerusalem), this will put the rest of the world (again, America, UK and all those they influence) in a very embarrassing position. Do they accept the declaration or do they reject it? Yassir Arafat knew this was his ACE card and did not want to use it until he was forced to do so. The PL now knows that too. They’re using it as a stick (since they have no carrot) to force Israel to make more concessions. The West (America mainly) keeps urging the Palestinians not to go ahead with such a declaration. This is how I understand the situation thus far. Now, we come to the issue of International law being faulty or being misused or abused. In order to prove or disprove this, you’ll need to consult a specialist in this area. I’m not one. However, I know and you MUST (since you’re an ardent Somalilander) that International diplomacy plays a great part in shaping International law. I also know (and hope you do) that Law works on precedents. I’ll use Somaliland. as an example again and say that when it gets recognised it will set a precedent that other ‘separatist’ nations would cite in their efforts to receive recognition too. It’s the way things work, saaxib. Sadly, in the case of Palestine, if you look at all the resolutions passed by the United Nations, you will notice that they’re all recommendations and not demands (these are called chapter VI resolutions). The resolution that led to the invasion of Iraq is a chapter VII (it‘s more severe). Incidentally, 1559 is a VI resolution: Syria was only forced to withdraw from Lebanon when Hariiri was assassinated. Hizb-u-Allah has not put down its arms). Still, all of this is neither here or there. These laws are questionable, and what law isn’t? Have you been following the debate about the American Supreme Court and the choice of new judge? Bush chose a conservative judge who is also a catholic (the new one and not the woman that was rejected)! Out of the nine Supreme Court judges, nine are Catholics. Supporters of abortion must be feeling very jittery now(I hope you follow my drift). The main point here is that the procedures followed are correct. This is why the United States went to the UN and forced it to issue resolution 1441 against Iraq. At the time it was issued, not many nations (or observers) believed it would be used to INVADE Iraq and all thought an extra resolution would be needed. However, diplomacy and brute force prevailed. Did the US set a precedent there? If it were possible, could it be persecuted for invading Iraq? Will it have a good case? Be that as it may, we are chasing shadows here and arguing over details and semantics (which, if you ask any lawyer, is the whole point of law). Israel is, sadly, legal now because the Palestinians (as represented by the PLO) recognised it in 1994 (or was that 93?). We might dislike that state and agree with the sentiments of the Iranian leader, but, like him, when it comes to International Law (at least) we have to accept realities on the ground (to borrow a phrase from Messers Bush and Sharon) and play along.

Originally posted by Simplicity: quote:Originally posted by Tolstoy: • We hope that the UN will respect the sovereignty of Somaliland which 97% of it's population have opted for. If you want to make a case for seccession, then do so without distorting or falsifying your statistics. I don't care much for politics, but this is just ridiculous. No wonder you don't care for politics. This IS politics. Numbers and figures can be looked on and interpreted in dozens of ways. Almost every single one of them (from a political point of view) can be accused of being distorted of falsified. Is it 97% of the people of Somaliland or is it 97% of those who voted? Would such a detail matter to anyone else other than those that DIDN’T vote? It’s politics, my dear, politics.