Xiin, He dismissed the idea for Somalnimo not because of the reasons you give. When he spoke about dire consequences at the start of his post I too assumed that he was talking about the likely failure of these enclaves, but no, he was not talking about that. He was simply unhappy with the idea of having a number of independent lands rising out of the corpse of Somalia! I believe it was worth asking him why he thought so. Nin walba Somalnimoo ku waashay lakin mid eno fasira Somalnimadan baas waxay tahay baa la waayaay. Forgive me for getting irritated by empty slogans with no accompanying explanations. But I think it is worthy to understand one's positions before spouting out all sorts of waffle (with all due respect to the brother of course).

^^ Not according to my new guru He has total faith in the Somaliland army and will tell me about it on PM soon. On a serious note, why do you think each side has these specific limitations that you mention?

^^ That was not my point though

Heh. In short, you finally agree with my assessment from a week ago? For someone who writes so eloquently why is it always difficult for you to read? You really can't get yourself so worked up when you're thousands of miles away from the conflict, adeer! For, if god forbid, you had to go back I could just imagine you picking up a gun and accidentally shooting yourself in the foot as a result of this uncontrollable agitation of yours. If you say your cousins are mere mercenaries, would it not be a better idea to get organised in the Diaspora and collect enough money to buy them back and sort this thing once and for all? Oh! Look, I just made a reasonable suggestion!

^^^ Though that is not the case at the moment and though you may start thinking I am stalking you , what exactly would be the problem with having a fragmented Somalia that is in peace with itself? What (in your eyes) is so important about keeping the Republic of Somalia intact? The popular American saying goes "if it aint broke, don't fix it", but in the case of Somalia things have gone beyond being merely broken! In fact, this reminds me of a quote in the early nineties by the then UN envoy to Somalia (Al-Akhdar Al Ibrahimi). He once compared Somalia to a broken glass and talked about the difficulty of putting that glass back together! So, what is your objection to having these enclaves as long as peace reigns? What is this great idea of Somalnimo that you still hold dear after seventeen years of countless disappointments,saaxib? (bear in mind that you did not at all imply that these states will fail, you merely rejected them for the simple fact that they'll dismember Somalia). ps We await the reply of the 'Minster' of information of Puntland. I dare wager that he'll come up with even worse words than the foolish Somaliland one.

^^ I have replied. Is it me or have some the faces in the gallery started twitching? Here goes I to the dark side....

^^ I have replied. Is it me or have some of the faces in the gallery started twitching? Here goes I to the dark side....

Oodweyne, I’m highly disappointed, saaxib. Did I wake myself earlier than usual, run to catch a bus, squeeze into a crowded train and skip the stairs at work four at a time, to come and read your reply this morning, only to be faced with this? Arr you cut my leg for nothing! I like your stance on this issue. It’s clear and unambiguous. You may care for the sentimental ideas of saving lives, protecting property and loving your fellow human beings. But you don’t let it take precedent over your ultimate goal of believing in, protecting and lauding the country that is Somaliland. It’s a solid position to have and a principled one. However, when you start singing the praises of the Somaliland army I have to confess that I start to wonder at your seriousness and wisdom! Let me hasten to say that I don’t do so because I doubt the capabilities of said army but rather question your total belief in it. There is nothing (much) wrong with being patriotic, jingoistic and banging the drum of wars. It’s to be expected in such a situation. Nevertheless, I’m sure you’ll agree that such feelings and actions reside at the lower end of any civilised discussion. None of us are at the scenes of these events and therefore (one hopes), none of us have any direct influence on things (save for some Diaspora money sent to either side)! For that reason, I find the constant wailing that we’ve grown accustomed to in this forum (not to mention the incessant preening) extremely thoughtless. Still, wailing or preening is not a problem in themselves but, rather, the real problem is the way these emotions are displayed! Lets take you as an example. You talk about your faith in the Somaliland army and how you believe that it cannot be defeated by its foes! But you never deign to explain why you think so? Does Somaliland have more soldiers? Better fighting gear? Has it secretly received some American F16 or even second hand Russian MiGs? The least you could have done was to explain your reasoning, saaxib! At any rate, even if the Somaliland army is as you say it is, have you no misgivings, doubts or worries? I got your overall message of course; things are fine and Somaliland has secured its disputed borders (and will remain so for the foreseeable future). Yet, is that the total sum of your analysis of the situation? Put some meat in those bones you’re throwing my way, saaxib! Take time out from your patriotic duty and view the situation with the dispassionate, tranquil and detached eye of an outsider or one with no vested interest on these events. Why do you believe that LA has been liberated? Since you have not expanded on your view of the Puntland army why do you assume theirs was not a tactical withdrawal instead of a shameful defeat? What would stop them from coming back to claim what they believe is theirs (other than the obvious answer of: our Somaliland brave boys, of course)? We could either go with some understandable sentiment on this discussion or just leave that to the kids and try some rationality (as crazy as that would sound in Somali affairs). I hope you oblige me with the latter and cut down on the former of course.

^^ You're in a world of your own, saaxib. I'd love to have whatever it is you've had.

Heh. Well, if the newsreader is wearing a shiny yellow tie you can't blame the viewers from getting distracted, saaxib. But, as you say, lets look at the story itself. Do you believe this to be the end of the matter and that Puntland (and those sympathetic to its cause in LA) will count their losses and decide to give up? If you do, I'd like a detailed explanation of why you think so. I know people here go on about your verbose style but ha o bixin, I'm going to read and relish every last word of it. Let yourself go, as long as you manage to convince me in the end. However, if you don't, then I fear it's you who is jumping the gun here and declaring a liberation that just isn't.

^^ OK fine. Heh@Ayuub. I actually looked at my last three or four replies and noticed the trend too. Can't say my thoughts were wrong though. The way I expressed them my need some work I'm sure.

^^ You're better than this, Ayoub. Don't let the foolish euphoria of those around you blinker your vision. You know full well that the 'invading militias' were welcome, wanted and invited by a large section of the people of that city. If you believe that LA is part and parcel of Somaliland (regardless of the opinions of some of its inhabitants) then be true to your convictions and say so without the sub-duke spin.

^^ I almost took you seriously for a minute there! What exactly is meaningful about an unproven allegation, saaxib? And even if there is a legitimate, viable Somali government (my head tells you you're talking about your Asmara ilma adeero) how is it going to pursue the mafia? If you want to be taken seriously you have to be serious. To wail over a mere allegation is pathetic. Get a grip my friend.

Originally posted by Emperor: What a naive logic you have there Qudhac... Ok lets see and examine this morning's event at LA from the news sources presented. The war started at around 6:20 am in the morning and finished about 7 am ( that is only 40 min ) In this 40 minutes: 1. The whole of Puntland army crampled and severly defeated 2. The entire city of LA was taken by SL forces and are gearing up to siege Garowe. 3. 40 Prisoners taken and 7 technicals captured by SL ( Togdheer News reports this) 4. Only two people died in this battle, that is the death toll reported in this debacle and which died inside the city not it's saroundings where usualy heavy figh takes place or any battle fronts. Marka Sxb bal isku noqor, iskana yar sug inta wax soo kala cadaanayaan waxba ha is xiijin... time, give a time, the war has started this morning and it is still in the morning in L.A, it takes sometime to get the news from there considering the situation, have some patiense, go get yourself a cold coke. You don't understand the complexity of Somali warfare, saaxib. What happened is that both sides drew a line on the sand and stationed their troops on either side. Every time one of them gets distracted, a soldier from the other side sneakily puts his foot across the line. BOOM! The news spreads, the websites hum and the discussion forums go crazy about the latest heroic act of whoever put their foot across the line and declare that one group (or another) has taken total control of LA.

^^ When you meet someone, you talk about what you have in common, silly. For example, if I ever get to meet you I am sure that we'll spend our time talking about Serenity's gravity defying cheekbones. I'm sure there are some implants and cosmotic surgery there you know. ps The meeting where this took place was full of children. I think there must have been at least twenty of the blighters running about, and they turned my pockets inside out.

What do YOU want them to do?

^^ Mine were not that bad. The kids had fun and even the cat got an Eid gift (a scratching board). I met one of your (female) in-laws. I have to admit that I couldn't help gossiping about you. She was of the same opinion that, 'reer North', have become too carab caseer for their own good. The ironic thing, of course, is that this gossip session was conducted entirely in Arabic.

^^ I didn't say they were mad, I just agree with him that most don't LOOK sane. There is a certain face that they put on when the meet a person for the first time. It is the most unwelcoming frown/scowl you'll ever see. You get used to it after a while and don't even notice it, I think that's what happened to you ya kaluun waaxid.

^^ I did. I don't live in Southall you know. My local mosque is strictly run by our blood cousins, the Bengalis. ps They agreed on Unity a few years back and managed to keep things together for a couple of years but now we're back to the old ways.

^^^

^^^ Two countries not celebrating Eid on the same day is at least understandable. Yes, it would be nice if all followed one rule and decision but it's not an obligation. The real problem is when one country follows two rules! We had the usual split this year in the UK. Some celebrated on Saturday and some on Friday!

^^ I think all three people (above Cara) are telling fibs. Why is it that none of your mothers moaned about not being able to load up the BBC Somali website?

He's right though. Most Burco people don't like sane at all.

Liberated? Are you trying to annoy Duke or do you believe your own rubbish, saaxib?

^^^ Are you going to dig a hole in your backgraden and start praying the Eid prayer on your own, duqa? Surely, that's the only way you can not celebrate Eid in Public! Adeer, somalido waxay ku maah maahda 'saca bi saca' (though I have no idea why they claim the saying in the first place). Don't be like the old lady at her daughter's wedding, who sits with a frown on her face and refuses to smile because her daughter married a man from another clan.