Originally posted by illmatic: Mr. Hassan has given an excellent speech, very thorough. Worllords are not the problem, Ethiopia is. Worllords are just the sypmtoms, but the root cause is Ethiopia. The TNG have laid out their case very well with evidence. What else you want them to do? the president is powerless because Ethiopia is sabotaging every effort he makes. NEthiopia is to blame! Not really. Somalis are responsible for its political stagnation. "During my interviews in 1992-94, several elders in Baidoa have quoted Omar Jees, the leader of the SPM, which represents the ****** tribr clan of the ******, addressing his followers, after a brief occupation of Baidoa by the SPM: 'Dhul baan idiin qabaney hadii aad dhacasan waydaan waa idinka iyo nacasnimadina: he said. Which means: We have conquered a fertile land for you and your folly that could not keep it; Sheikh Eedin Alyow an elder in Buur Hakaba, portrayed the situation dramatically and convincingly"----Aral Is Ethiopia responsible for what your people have done to inter-riverine region people?

Originally posted by Sophist: Matkey, duqa waxaa laga yaabaa inaad ifahmi weydey markaan afka qalaad wax ku qorey. Haatan bal aan iskun dayo inaan ra'yigeyga aan ku dhiibto luqada aan kahadleyno. Using generic fallacy to discredit my argument is an indication of immaturity and lack of sound and valid argument from your part. I clearly understood your argument and restrained myself from reaching injudicious inference. If your implication was that my knowledge in English language is limited then i shall say it is true. My econometric professor, who is one of the brightest one in the department, does not speak or writes relatively well. What does that tell you? You be the judge. Let’s confind our argument to the subject matter! The central theme of you argument was that, to paraphrase, recognizing Maay language as one of the officail language will serve no purpose other than dividing somalia. Let me stress my point of view with objective appraoch, unlike many people. It is the freedom of choice which is the premise for our accountability. We innately realize that we are accountable and bear responsibility for the choice we make. This is not an invention of religion; even the atheist society understands and has appreciation for this concept. We are species whose hallmark is freedom. How do Somalis exercise this freedom? Do they bear responsibility for what they have done to their fellow Somalis? Or are they exempt from accountability of their action? Why am I asking these questions? One would answer them by delineating destruction and prevailing social crisis in Somalia, which claimed the lives of many civilians. However, I don’t wish to discuss the atrocities inflicted upon harmless civilian, but to explain the forces behind the persisting anarchy and social destruction in Somalia. In my earlier post i argued that agro-pastoral people are linguistically and socio-culturally different from nomadic people whose thinking and social structure is shaped by their environment. It is said that the latter is more violent than the former because of the hostile environment, and therefore they develop sadistic posture as means to endure their lifestyle. Being aggressive is the way in which this society measures man’s competency. Application of the uniquely human faculty of self-restraint is the principal distinction between humans and animals, but nomadic mentality have played havoc with it. Crimes which have been committed against inter-revering region clearly indicate that grossly impulsive and destructive behavior has always been common social phenomena rather than exception. Nomadic clans use myth of Somali homogeneity in order to become political dominance, and the appropriation of resources from the peaceful and intensely religious agro-pastoral groups in and around the inter-revering region. Once they rose to the power, they brought their historical antagonism existed between their tribes into the political sphere, and hence it became the main factor that led to the civil war in Somalia. The antagonistic behavior of these tribes became state phenomena and spilled over the rest of the country. Clearly, agro-pastoral people never contribute to the persisting mayhem in Somalia. The implication is that they never seek political power in order to gain wealth or for sake of self-glorification. These people relied on their land for economic subsistence. Sophist, the root cause of Somali conflict is the struggle among nomadic clans for control of insufficient resources, especially land and water. Moreover, it is the on-going violent competition between these nomadic clans families for political and economic dominance of the inter-revering region. These are forces behind persisting social, economic and the political chaos in Somalia. We should not waste our energy and time on mere argument as to whether Maay language exacerbate the current political conditions. Some of the people in this forum use rhetoric nationalism for sustaining the legacy of previous dictator, Siad Bare, who solely responsible for the destruction of Somalia, particularly inter-reverine region. Somalia will continue to suffer mayhem and chronic order unless you acknowledge and approach the situation with atentive and pure mind. MATKEY

Originally posted by Xalimo7: Oh so funny, i was surprised for real , when i heard that one of the staging issue, was Af-Maay-Maay, damn it ,i think what the May-May community are doing is, Revenge, i heard that Sayind Mohamed C/ hassan, long time ago told them(May-May) to go and come back them speaking a go. If you put it that way, then was he a Somali hero? :confused: We are truely misinformed generation!! Some sees him as hero, while other percieved him as invader.

Originally posted by Sophist: [qb] [/May is not a language independent from Somali language. Both May and Maxaa tiri are Somali;consequently the introduction of dailect as as a parallel language to Somali is a grace mistakeqb] Sophist: MAAY is LANGUAGE which is spoken by 1/3 of Somali people. The people of this region are socio-culturally and linguistically different from the nomadic groups who live in central and northern Somalia. They speak the Reewin language locally known as Mai or Maay, as opposed to Maxa , which is spoken other parts of the country. Mai is to Maha as Spanish is to Portuguese; that is, they are not mutually intelligible. they are distinguished from nomads by their agro-pastoral mode of production and their settled mode of life which produced a distinct culture and social organization. Unlike the nomads, the settled communities of the inter- riverine regions have well organized social and political structures based on hierarchical authority. Hence, since people who speak this language are not nomads, one can argue that Maay language predates maxaatiri. Are we really homogenous? What prompted you to open this discussion? is it because Maay is recognized as language? You said: Maay is dialect and therefore it does not meet the criteria to be language. If that is the case then, why people whose language is maxaatiri can not understand Maay? Since you yourself can’t speak or understand Maay language who are you to decide whether it is language or dialect? I really would like to make this into debate over what constitutes dialect and language. I am not insinuating that I am anthropologist. However, for those of you who argue otherwise, i can induce you to see distinction between language and dialect. Most of you held tenaciously to the vestige of figment of you ancestors by which you perpetuate and disseminate the Saab and Samaale propoganda. Speaking maxaatiri is not one of the criteria of being Somali and it sure does not restrain other’s right to exercise their language (note that i said language not dialect). So please spare me the Somalinimo if one of the elements of being Somali is legitimization of the language of one group and subduing the language of the other. Who the hell are you to decide what constitutes Somalinimo? Some of you are even suggesting Arabic to be the second language, which i find it very imposturous to even think of . First and foremost you should allow your own fellow muslim to have what is rightfully his or hers. I hope you know Somali’s civil war emanated from the injustice, corruption, personal glorification of the previous government, and its acquisitiveness and violence to undertake and restructure the livelihood of others (Digil and Miriflle). These people suffered in the hands of perviuos regime led by Siad Barre. I don’t think anyone can dispute that Maay people had been underrepresented in the political sphere. By the way i really don't think Maay language needs a recognition from you and the likes. As a matter of fact you need them. They are closing the library; therefore i will continue this discussion another time. P.S. If you wish i can provide a reliable source pertaining t my argument---- which is Maay language predates maxaatiri. Remember it is not oral history which is used as means to subjegate and control those who are politically unconscoius about Somalia.

No difference at all. Why? Because people use relgion, tribalism, ethinicy and idelogy as means to either acqiure or sustain whatever that might be. But i would say egoism and greed are the main factors, which act upon human beings.

Originally posted by ®¤ì©: I am totally flabergasted by your statement on Immanuel Kant having two conflicting moral theories :confused: . Is that a conjecture on your part to assert both theories were supported by Kant? what i meant to say was there are two oppopsing theories (universalims and relativism). Kant was the pioneer of the universalim. I am sorry for the confussion. Kant’s moral theory states that all moral requirement are instances of one general moral requirement, which he calls “Categorical Imperative” An imperative, to paraphrase, is command or requirement such as you must do it, as you stated. But, why should there be one moral standard? He argues that morality is based on rational or reasoning nature of human beings. For this reason, he believes that there can be one moral standard for the world; because morality is not contingent upon human desire, sentiment and emotions. But can mere reasoning and human rationality substantiate moral standard? I concur more or less with Kant rather than with Hume, who argues that morality comes from human desire. However, human reasoning varies from place to place, from group to group, from individual to individual and so on. I believe Allah”s Book of revelation is the true source of morality which establish standard universla morality. However, from secular perspective, relativism is better solution because it takes an objective approach to every situation. Proponent of this school of thought considers morality to be relative to different societies. In other words, there is no one morality that is intrinsically right. As Muslim, I differ this view as well, because it is contrary to what Allah said in His Book (Qur’an). For instance, some of the cultural practice may seem normal behavior to someone whose morality comes from secularism or any other culture, whereas one whose morality is based on Islam finds this kind of behaviour inconceivable or immoral. My argument is that universalism is best solution if it is based on Islam. I can understand why someone would prefer relativism over universalism. Western world use this principle (universalism) in order to promote and perpetuate their culture. In fact United Nation made unversalism one of its central theme in order to safeguard the so-called human rights. I don’t wish here to discuss politics, therefore I would rather leave it there. that is my 2 cents input.

Originally posted by ®¤ì©: Knowing that Kantinisen sense of duty is discredited on account of everyone's sense of duty being different, do you think Cultural Relativism is the best solution for moral standards? What do you mean Kantinisen? Do you mean E. Kant’s universal morality? If that is what you meant Kantinisen, then the two conflicting theories are: relativism and absolutism. Before we proceed some sort of discussion or debate over the subject matter, could you please be more specific becasue i don't understand what you mean Kantinisen.

LOOOOL @ MMA I almost fell off the chair!! I was going to post some of them but you beat me to it.

Baashi, bro, luuqyada ayaan isku qarinaayey. In ay meeshan wax kasoo socdaan waan ogaa, sidaas daraated waxaan is iri bal uyara kaadi oo yeyna seefta kula taginee. Sidey soomaalidu horey utiri "fuley hooyadii ma gablanto". Fuleynimo daraateed baan isla qariyey. Siduu Gediid sheegay, meesha kala carar baa kadhacday. Abaaba, yaa dabaal eh. Br, good to see you in the forum. Aniga iyo akhyaarnimo waan kala fognahay, laakinse hadaad iigaratey waxba kama qabo

Originally posted by Gediid: Anyways I happen to notice dadkii Politics section ku doodi jirey some are now posting in the women section,I believe appealing to their femimine side, while others were spotted in the teens section sporting a P diddy outfit and couple of bling blings(yaan laga garan), and a few others have gone religious abandoned the jeans for a Khamiis and threw out their shaving kits,favorite hangout religion section.. Lool@ Gediid As you said, the place looks empty. Kaabo, meesha yaan lagaaga tagin ee raga dhinac karaac

you are right. Sheekhalow was one of the best.

Enter, You forgot some of theee best names. Here they are: Shaarkey Akoko Bin Shaakir Gaduudow Cafiifi Shaash Karaama Jeylaani Muriida Aba Nuur Abati Canter Aliishow Ubeey Gariinle Eenow the last but not the least MATKEY Those were household names back in the day because of their talents in sport (calcio or football or as we used to call it Maqaar). My older brothers were sports fanatics, and used name or call themsleve those names. I have always liked playing in the midfield (centra champo) like Shaarkey. My brother had big poster of all these great players. I will try to remember the rest of them. Enter, help me out here... i can't remember most of them.

Filssan Salaamant ariitana waana hadhawow adablaga hoobshe hogala jimaayte wal hun masheegne hadhawaaw . Taas heesti Hasan Eeden wu. Marka ani heestun dheega arlaadi iya ha hasuusade. Ogsana inta adi afka si feeylan inkasaasa. Way taawiye inta adi oobadida, ee inis qaridooy ya ka ari ariitana. Wayba lafadaaye inta meela ma’ alin kanagata, dadka barta may 101, ama distance education for summer courses (Maay 101)lool Uni dugsileey iya ena noo raali ahow afka laka dheeli. Lakad Afka si fiicana u jacbursanoosa. Maah maah noo keentey miyaa adigana. Nuune iyo MMA a iharowsaday, adigana qataraa iskadhigee yaah. Abaaba, jilci bahasha…. bar baratooy nahay. This is one of my favorite; Shini Malable Shaafiyo Kah Sharafa kiin weeli lool. Actually it is a song. Ustaad MMA and Nuune, bartiin wal waaye, see wal injara. Haye hee luuqyada halaga soo baxo

Kaabo, Shumeey is definitely a good name. Shumeey shumac ka nuurto yaa heli kare I think you forgot Caraweelo. I don't know if that is a real name, but i have heard it from somewhere.

What are we discussing about here? Apparently, i can see that this isn’t an intellectual discussion. Is this fadhi kudirir? Darwish ;- Judging from your writing you sound an intelligent person, but are deficient in civility. Being able to write very sophisticated way will not make you a knowledgeable person in political realm. It is very sad to see fellow Somalis who claim or depict himself as all knower, and yet fails to engage in political debate in very civilized way. Shame on you!! Darwish, you remind me of those old folks in back home, who used to say war naga aamus ayaan kundhahney or wiil yahow maxaat ogtahay naga farriso ayaan ku niri . The likes of you are the ones who destroyed our country. you deviated from the subject matter, and ridiculed... i wonder why we are incapeable of fixing our political stagnation. i honestly believe that the so-called educated or PhD holder and the mercaries in Somalia share the same mentality, excetp the former can speak and write Enlish. Etiquettes are not something that people gain from schools or academy of higher learning, but are entrenched in different society. Please stick with the topic! Entrepreneur, be the better man. Darwish, BTW, I like the way write, and hope some day will be able to write as good as you. No har feeling my brother

Originally posted by Paltalk: TO: Gamadiid .but you are well educated in the negative side of our government. I am Proud to be an American and I enjoy the freedom and the civil liberties with my fellow american citizens. According to one of your last statement, you admited that "your" government has negative side, which is, accoriding to Gamadiid, "the lack of freedom of expression in america, King Gearge's rule, Evangelical Aschroft's loathing for the constitution." Gamadiid also said: don't forget that all politicians are Social Climbers, usually Drunken, often Adulterous, and always Lying, Thieving and Conniving, Join people who want to be at the top looking down on others and stealing from them. Paltalk, where is the discrepancy in those statements upon which you have agreed? what i infered from your statement was that there are negative side of "your" government. meaning that what Gamadiid stated above is true. I am not trying to ridicule you or your intelligence, but you remind me of those red neck truck drivers who hold the same mentality as you---lack of objectiveness. every time this arises, all they talk about is american freedom, september eleven and some crap like that. Paltalk, you sound like an educated person, but don't subject yourself to those books (American history) written by Anglo-Americans, who inflicted atrocity on Idians and Blacks for over two centuries. Freedom could be defined as one's own right to excersise his/her view, reasoning, and rational without external forces. This freedom is intrinsic to human beings unless it is deprived off. Apparently, you don't have the freedom to reason or express your own views; because i feel like i am talking to the man himself (Bush), or red neck whose understanding and perception of world affairs are constrained and limited by american networks.

Shujui-1, I have always liked the name Khalid and Bilaal, though the names of Allah (swt) are the best ones. It is good to see that many Somali kids being named after the asxaabis. I have seen many somali kids in the masjid whose names are Anas, Khalid, Osama and so on.

Nin Yaaban, I wonder why your nick says Nin Yaaban Lol. Abaaba, geel markii loo heesayo, shimbira u heseysaa. Let's welcom the sister with gacmo furan. Infatua.5an, congratulation my sister. I myself become a citizen last week.

MMA, salaamant Widaayo, i couldn't have explained it better! thanks for clearing that out. in order to answer his question, i had to use some of the terms..... couldn't explain it without using them. thanks

Lambda, i hope i answred your question.

Originally posted by Batuulo: when was the first year of islam Marines created and Were? Did You Got It now? The answer the Turkish ocean geographer and admiral Piri Reis (1480-1553). He measured the Asiatic coasts and developed nautical astronomy. According to what i have read, he was a muslim scientist. QUESTION: who found or introduced the field of sociology? As we all know this field is taught in every university, college and highschool. Hope it is an easy question.

LAMBDA, walaal waanku salaamay. Marka hore aan iraahdo reewin waa luqad soomaali ah, dadka kuhadlana waa soomaali. Waan ogsoonahay in adiga iyo dad badan ookale aysan aqoon luqada tan, Reewin. Waxaan dhici karta inaadan tagin meelaha looga hadlo amaba aadan lakulan dadka kuhadla. Anigaygan kula hadlaya kuma aanan dhalan meesha looga hadlo, laakiinse waan bartey sabaatoo ah familkeyga ayaa kuhadla. Ma aadan haysanin fursadaas oo kale , waana ogahay walaal. Su aashadu waxay ahayd: maxay ku kala gedisan yihiin af Reewin iyo af maay maay . Waa iskumid, laakiinse waxay kuhaboon tahay in loogu yeero af reewin. Tusaale aan kusiiyo. Afka kan aynu kuwada hadleyno dad baa uyaqaan af maxaa tiri . Sabata loodhayna waxay tahay meesha reewinku ay kayiraahdan “may arti”, afka tan waxaa lugu dhahaa maxaa tiri. Taas bey katimid maay maay oo macnaheedy tahay maxaa maxaa . Luqadan aan kugula hadalay kuma haboona in layiraahdo maxaa maxaa. Sidaas daraated bey kuhaboon tahay in loogu yeero af reewin, dadka ku hadlana ay yihiin reewin. MIZZ-UNIQUE and Somealien;- how are you my sisters? I am really sorry that you are left out in this topic. As I explained to my brother, this isn’t a foreign language, rather it is Somali language, or i should say our Somali language, though most of us never had the opportunity to learn. I and some of the br/sis in this site happen to know both, and it gives us an opportunity to communicate with those who speak either one or both language. It never meant to exclude some nomads from the topic or the post. But look at it from the good side, which is to incorporate every Somali person in this forum despite our minor differences. Moreover, it will enhance our understanding of one another in terms of dialect, language, and so on; it will also enables us to get to know one another. Imagine how those who speak or understand reewin only would feel if they logged on this forum and find out that they can’t relate to it, whilst they identify themselves with Somalis. The point i am trying to make is that we should all welcome everyone and tyr to be more tolerant toward one another, so that we wouldn't leave anyone behind. Hope you understand what i am trying to stress. thanks Lambada, i hope i answred your question.

Siin salaami kuligiin, Filsan, runtaa wu af maay mal araaw, af reewin iya la are. Afka kasasa iya in maleeye. Inis martiyeetoy hadhawaw wal hun masheege ariitaana. MMA, Alankii awshee gobonimaada iyo halganka wal hakaqaadid iya eta. Iin waran widaayo. akhriye meela wala haka qorti, waana eed iyo eed iyaa inka farahi marki adi arti soomalinimio wal kafaylan maleh. Waana kii raacsana 100%. "ciyaal xaafada qabiil makasana iyaa arti. It is true! Ani reer Baydhabo ma ihi ee familkaana iyo ka kooyo Buur iyo baydhabo. Inaadey iyaa Baydhabo deganaayti meela la eraaw Isha. Ani iseedi jire markii ani yaraaye. Ani Xamar iyaa kadhaladi; reer Boondheere iya haadi jirey. Isbitaal raabo gadaalis iya daganaadi jiri ama meela la eraaw Koogaar. hadana xaafad kale iya in guurni. Widaayow, ana reer Hamar iyaa aha inkastoo dadkaana ka kooyi Buur iyo Bay. Abaaba xudunteeyda Xamarey kuduugantahay, as well as my memories. However, we use to speak af reewin in the house because all my uncles and aunts spoke only af reewin. that is how i picked up, though i can't speak as good as..... Nuune, intee kabati widaayo. meela nii bilaawti, hadana nii kabahaase ma aha.

[/qb] Fine...ZAB waad heleysaan, laakiin cuntadu waxay noqonaysaa macmacaan qudha...no hilib or bariis, ma waxbaad ka qabtaan? [/QB] walaashis, maxaa dhacay goosaha maa la iska jabinaa? Mac maan goosku udaran yahay laakin hilib iyo bariss is good for the soul. I can see now there is no zab in this place, therefore I better settle with your offer (mac macaan) before you change your mind OGi-Girl, walaal waan dhawahay aad baana ugu mahatsantahay. MMA "Ever remember this: Sab uriye salaan labood, laf jibiye... Kudarso hee. Sab uriye ha nagu noqon hee, waaba kuu jeedaa salaanta saa ula booday". Abaaba, ilfuur aa igu noqotey! Waxaan is dhahay meeshan geel badan lugahaaya ee zab kaqal qaalso, laakin you expose my mission . Truly, I appreciate all this and I must say that you guys are very helpful.

siin salaami kuligin Matkey, widaay, beeso lan inbaahan maleh. Hooba arlaada fadaasa, Hasan Eeden Samatar in nagooy personal secretary. Wal dheegeey alankaas hooba dheega lan injeeda arlaadi in ki bihihaaya tikidsheey. Ee hooba injeeda arlaadi, Hasan Eeden li hiriir. Lakiin hooba intagta, iinqaad hees-sheey la eroow: "Weeraroow Dooyoow Waniini!" Aysin, I want to build my own mansion there and hire Hassan Eden to sing Huburow and Hakaba banaashe for me . That is what I meant beesi aruuris. Hasan Eden Baydhabo caan ka iye. MMA remember this: markii riwaayad bayhdabo lajeeyo, reer baydhabo meela tikidhka laga gadaw inta iyoo sedan way ari jireen hasan eden kejiree, kajira hooba la ara galaana; hooba hasan maka jiro la aro nagadaana. It didn’t matter what the riwaayo was so long as Hasan is in it.