Ciid Mubaarak all!

^^Adeer it’s not a hidden secret your secessionist camp wishes to separate by any cost. That includes allying themselves with Ethiopia as they have done before and hence your reproach on the Generale and his quest for Ethiopia’s help in this conflict came from the wrong cavity, I thought. A point you conveniently don’t wish to address. We all pray for Allah to lift this misery from us and show us the correct path.

^^Not quite. Courts are defending thier gains and dont want to go back to the era of warlords---by any cost. An entity that harbors defeated warlords and presents Ethiopia as a savior can hardly survive methinks.

Where did you get this info yaa rudy. How’s this different than those skirmishes that we accustomed in that region as of late?

Baashi, with all honest bro Alle-ubaahane has no point. Wixiisu tuhun dhaafi waaye. Anna tuhunka layma tuso wallaahi. As for you and your stance, you need no defense i say.

Although Aw yusuf’s defection hardly proves anything, yet it may serve as a strong inference that one can’t, without the clannish emotions, rationally defend the current policies of the TFG. Evidently disappointment will be the destined fate for those who believe foreign intervention will smooth their way to govern. As for the reported clashes, I think some parties are greatly exaggerating it and I hope that nothing that could impede the proposed talks happened. [edit]Oh Ayoub don’t be duplicitous now. A man who charts the demise of the territorial integrity of his nation can hardly be taken serious in wanting a positive outcome from the south. It hurts. Truth is.

Alle-ubaahane, waa shiddaysanyahay awoowe! Nin Jihaad u socda maaha ninku. Markaan is iraahdo wuxuu ka mid yahay ciidamada caaradka ah ee Baydhabo ku sii siqiyaba, Boston buu kasoo hadlaa . Ever heard; wax santuuri gaardiyi ogaa guusha nabadeede Gunka laga haleeliyo ***** gadawyadeediye'e As for the peace news, waan ku diirsaday saaxiib! Wax badan ma dhex yaalaane kiiska layska waalayaa! Nimankani odoga waa aqoonsadeen hadduu rabo in wax xukumo oo calaf dawlad nimo ku leeyahay ha la heshiiyo hana u tanaazulo. Awoowe nin guri dhalo ah ku jiraa dhagax ma tuuro. Ina Yuusuf hal xiraale buu igu noqday. Wax garta wuxuu rabo la waa. Malaha ninkii qalab buris ka lihi wax walba musmaar buu moodaadi baa ku rumowday . Allow nabad keen!

Originally posted by Pi: The ICU gets too much credit. It's hilarious at times. They're commended because they were able to remove road blocks, open the airports and seaports, bring the city under one administration. They finally managed to do this after 16 yrs. Somaliland was able to do this 1991. Puntland was able to do this 1997. It's kinda similar to a first-grader (ICU) bragging about passing grade one, while his cohorts are in high school (Somaliland and Puntland). Pi, that’s a faulty math adeer---how could you appraise an entity in a period of time that precedes its inception? Courts come to power few months ago hence any reproach should reflect their political age! Other than that, as always, you are being balanced. It should not escape us (the supporters of Islamic Courts) Courts have only achieved les then one-third of what they Could have indeed attained. But given the political and security circumstances that surround them, fairness demands we applaud whatever military victories or political advances they made. Only if the stuff of clan majesty that drive TFG’s support was proportional and the masses were adequately informed! A lament.

^^Good to see you back yaa Serenity, horta! I gather you fully intend to set foot in SLand, maaha?

Sidii roon Allahoyow, aamiin.

^^Adeer , first enough with the swagger --you may be better at waxing lyrics but not as good at articulating your point. It now seems. I support Mogadishu Courts because they have achieved what many failed to attain---they defeated those wicked warlords. It’s quite needless to mention all the good that defeat entailed. And if that was not enough for Xiin they actually went and kicked warlord Barre out of Kismayo. That was more than enough for me, I tell you! Long live for the Courts , I say. What say you yaa Aw Yusuf?

^^A peculiar mixture of theatric and rhetoric! You sound unstable adeer and you spoke like someone who have certain knowledge about my history and me . You are trivializing things beyond recognition, and your attempt to reduce our argument to Aweys vs. Yusuf is quite simplistic. Still your zeal to send TFG’s army to a final battle so they can achieve a victory that could drive history is noted. All the ingredients of success however are lacking to realistically attain the goals you listed above. PS. You are taking a big leap yaa Aw Yusuf. You are still in the clannish trenches of this debate and your effort to jump to a theological discussion, though admittedly ambitious, is quite feeble.

lol@hunqacataaye! Waryee caadi ma tihid! lol.

Caano, You are no longer wearing your scientist hat (read: you are not observing with an open mind). For with the correct observation you could’ve seen the paradigm shift in Mogadishu---a positive one at that. When you put emphasis on few demos organized by the Courts (no less) and you tilt your comments to address its subtitles, you are not meaning for a debate saaxiib. But let me try to vent your lingering thought adeer. Clouds of war are hanging over Mogadishu and Baydhabo; each one of the political contestants will use all available methods at their disposal. Courts have resorted to public demos to garner their support and show the public approval they enjoy. Geedi retorted with verbal salvos of his and issued threats of war if the Courts behavior does not change. When Indhacadde’s tangue slipped as he quickly outgrew of his authority, the old man showed his perpetual fist and claimed that he has indeed closed the door of peace shut. No surprise there---as far as I am concerned. Only those who are deprived of intellectual shells would think commenting on the appearance of political demo or laboring to dissect political speeches substitute for a genuine debate adeer. Would you rather be impressed if the Mogadishu demos featured an orderly march of a military parade? How phony would that be yaa Caano? Adeer, ninja-squads or not Courts are political reality on the ground. Their military and logistical reach is also undeniable. To wish them away is beyond wishful thinking. To vilify them as some attempted to do is ineffective. Insults, negative slants of their political composition, or other slurs wont do the job. Accept them as part of Somalia’s political-landscape and talk to them or die sad, I say.

^^War horaaaaaaaaaaaay! I liked it. I just wanted to see your analytical genius!

^^Agreed in principle but it's more than that, is it not? You are not suggesting that this movement is not more than mere populist slogans, are you? As much as you oppose their political platform, you must concede to the bare fact that they have indeed resurrected a city from its graveyard. Today security is no longer a significant issue in Mogadishu. Warlords are out of business. Roadblocks are no longer manned. Airport and harbor are operational. Gradual rehab for the city’s infrastructure is being undertaken, and initial assessments are underway. The issue of looted properties is taken on. Above all political variables in the south are being reduced to one, hence the equation of Somalia’s political stagnation could be solved with a much less effort now than it has been few months back. What say you Caano?

^^I can now count on you yaa Faarax . I am not sure though if your qabiil has been attacked yet. When that happens stay away from these pages and moderate your emotions in private saaxiib. Nimankani niman naxa maaha, say u joogaan bay habeen iska weerarayaan cidda oo nabad ah .

^^Caano, you are a scientist and I always read your comments vigilantly . I liked all the attributes you listed there, and any ideal government should have them all. But I am minimalist in my political outlook as it applies to Somalia and wouldn’t bench mark my prospective government as high as I sensed you would.

^^ Aamiin to that. But I find your analogy here quite interesting. Adeer TFG is just that, transitional. The multi-year process you referred to was not a unique process. In fact, it has been one of many such processes that were held in a bid to produce a compromised form of government. In my mind there’s nothing that makes this process different than the one that preceded it and produced the Carta government. It was a step forward as it supposedly created a platform where warlords could voice political differences and attempt to govern rather than fight and kill each other, and in the process kill us, the innocent Somalis. But it was not to be. And you know it. a combination of Mogadishu warlords’ effort to impede any government, foreign intervention, and the sheer incompetence of its leaders hindered what ever potential success it could have. It has become ineffective, and quite frankly short of any agreement with the Courts, it will die right there in Baydhabo. Reason: one can’t govern his subjects by foreign troops. Simple. Politically uninitiated of us might ask what would Courts achieve. The answer is, again, simple. Courts would either sit down with this government and dilute its secular nature or sit it out and wait till it vanishes technically or politically. Because they are ideologically driven (Courts are) all the money in the world would not buy their support. Hence the only way out of this impasse is to negotiate with clear understanding of each other. But if the General Duke’s understanding of the Courts mimics that of the old man, we are indeed in trouble. For Courts are no clannish in nature and theirs transcend tribal boundaries as they are defined. One needs to wise up and understand his foes. Ethiopia has interest in Somalia and it would pursue it relentlessly--you are correct on that accord. But has Ethiopia helped TFG or hindered it? Can TFG, even if it wants to, really seek peace without Ethiopia, and ultimately reverse our political misfortunes? I am leaning toward the notion that says that TFG is beholden to Ethiopia that it will ultimately perish in its hands. [edit] Annaasu macaadinun, is an Arabic sentence. In fact it’s in a prophetic hadith that asserts that there are certain genes in us that could hardly mutate! Where was I going with it is another thread yaa ThePoint!

^^Thats a crime ! There is no middle ground. Read my partisan statement adeer, it's not ceeb. ps. Well come yaa Coon !

Caano, You are much better now. And so you know, i am not a mind reader adeer and, naturally, i could comment on what i read(plainly) . Still you cant drink from both pools so to speak, so you need to dig your trenchs and, if need be, fiercely defend it .

^^To be a partisan is not detrimental for a useful debate to take place, yaa Me, and if it’s the partisanship that of which ThePoint is guilty of, then I dare announce to you all that I am/have been, and will for ever remain a partisan. For without it we will all be reduced to an ineffective and pretentiously preening beings who cant or unable to dissent and debate; who cant present a point of view and defend it with both reason and revelation. Partisan for what i think is right. That's healthy, i assert.

Originally posted by ThePoint: Shame on you adeer - there is no nobility in Islam apart from what God bestows on his servant. Correct me IF I am wrong adeer but didn't TFG agree to meeting in Khartoum and it was ICU folks who pulled out. Additionally, as the recognized government of Somalia through a multi-year process - you can understand why TFG would suddenly not want to embrace a group that might challenge its legitimacy, however small it may be. But at present - I think they recognize reality and are willing to talk. The ICU has been calling for jihad against Ethiopia and TFG although somewhat tempered lately. Additionally, there have been 2 suicide attacks against TFG. Moreover, the ICU has been stating that until Ethiopia gets out - no talks. Not the best stance if you are genuinely interested in reaching a solution to the impasse that is Somalia. After all, the TFG could make similar remarks about 'al-Qaeda' out before talks. And I would characterize that as similarly unhelpful as the ICU position. There is no shame in that adeer---nobility exists . Annaasu maacidinun, you know! But that’s beside the point. Moving on… So all you could come up with as a compromise is accepting to negotiate. Well, that’s not a compromise adeer. As for the Courts insistence on Ethiopia’s departure, which I don’t agree with it as a prerequisite for the talks, still it should be a significant item at the negotiation table. For with Ethiopia in Baydhabo and Galkacyo peace remains afar. We’ve been there before but when all said and done TFG’s position is untenable, politically and militarily. You can’t have Geedi, for instance, as a PM and wish he could genuinely negotiate with his potential replacement. You can’t rely on Somalia’s historical foe and present it as a savior whose actions are Samaritan of sort!

Originally posted by Caano Geel: saaxiib, as anyone that knows me will tell you, what i said there is light. They are certainly not nation builders, so if you can think of a better terms for them given their actions umm since 1989 please tell me and i will use it. ^^Caano, that is mulish stance adeer. Your last comment has a scent of tribal slur and you definitely need help in the way you voice your objection to the folks in Mogadishu! Your inquiry for a better vocab to use comes across as a sheer frivolity--- at least to me! Who destroyed Somalia: a particular clan, or a political attitude? I will welcome a debate along those lines, but yours …..

^^Oh Generale dont you outgrow of your King Canute like wishes!